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used panamera
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May 28, 2021 18:40
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PittTheElder posted:So is paying cash for a vehicle just a complete trap? I was genuinely surprised when I ran the numbers yesterday and even at relatively awful 7% interest rates, the finance cost is significantly less than a modest return from the market. I think it's important to evaluate your whole financial picture and lever up using the best paper you can find, wherever that might come from. Like in my case my forever home is financed at 2.875% using a 15-year fixed rate mortgage and we went for the maximum we could borrow at this rate. On the other hand, both my cars are all equity because I don't think I could get a better financing deal than the mortgage, and it facilitates my automotive ADD a little to have no liens on those titles. The rest of my net worth (apart from a cash cushion) is in various investment funds, some of which have their own leverage, and I have no desire to be any more levered than I currently am. But if I was in the market for a car that could be financed at 0.9% you bet I'd be tempted...
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May 28, 2021 18:50
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If you're buying a new car and can get incentive financing in the 0-1% range, which many/most OEMs are almost always offering, I think it's silly not to take advantage of it. Unless you have a pathological aversion to cheap/free debt. That said, I don't think you should use cheap debt to inflate your budget or overextend yourself. Ideally you buy a car that you could pay cash outright, but instead keep it banked/invested by leveraging that ultra-low rate financing. So that advice is assuming some fiscal responsibility which a lot of folks obviously don't have. If instead you take the financing and then also blow that same 30-50k cash or whatever on a bunch of other junk instead of leaving it invested you're Guinness fucked around with this message at 19:12 on May 28, 2021 |
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May 28, 2021 19:08
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The solution to running out of money is obviously make more money
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May 28, 2021 19:27
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Well I'm leaning towards buying a year old used model, which sadly means giving up the preferential 0-1% rate I could otherwise get from an OEM. I do have the cash to buy it outright, but the more I look at this the more that looks like a stupid decision. Like if I financed $20k at the 6.99% available from the seller of the used vehicle, that gives a cost of borrowing of 3,755. To break even on an investment I'd only need to hit an annualized return of 3.5%, I was really surprised it was that low. The thing every resource I can find says to do is secure separate financing through my own bank, but it looks like the rates I could expect there are about the same?
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May 28, 2021 19:29
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Well I'm leaning towards buying a year old used model, which sadly means giving up the preferential 0-1% rate I could otherwise get from an OEM. I do have the cash to buy it outright, but the more I look at this the more that looks like a stupid decision. The amount to make to profit is 6.99%+whatever you want your profit to be man..this math is not very hard to conceptualize. The part you're missing is where you have to withdraw your investment to make your car payment, and if you aren't doing that you're actually "investing" more than the 20k.
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May 28, 2021 19:33
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If your rate to borrow is 7% pay cash IMO, that's quite high My credit union advertises 2.69% on used cars (newer than 2011), is your credit score bad? Guinness fucked around with this message at 19:37 on May 28, 2021 |
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May 28, 2021 19:35
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KillHour posted:Because for some reason I still don't understand, all the other millennials got together without me to decide that the new "cool car that shows you're a wealthy and interesting person" was going to be full-size SUVs and pickup trucks. I must have slept in that day. Maybe Gen Z will save us with 80s wedges again. Wealthy people like Athletes and Actors have had a big baller SUV of some sort in their stable since 2000 or so.
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May 28, 2021 19:38
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M. Night Skymall posted:The amount to make to profit is 6.99%+whatever you want your profit to be man..this math is not very hard to conceptualize. The part you're missing is where you have to withdraw your investment to make your car payment, and if you aren't doing that you're actually "investing" more than the 20k. Well I could just make the monthly payments without drawing down the investment. But yeah you're right that in the scenario where I pay cash, the proper alternative is to count the payment I'm not making as investments. Assuming I don't take the patriotic route anyway  Guinness posted:If instead you take the financing and then also blow that same 30-50k cash or whatever on a bunch of other junk instead of leaving it invested you're Honestly I have crazy option paralysis going on in my head right now. I know what make/model of vehicle I want, the options I'm looking at are basically new middle-trim or year old top-trim; as near as I can tell the financial cost comes out pretty close on them, so the question becomes do I want a new one with Wireless Android Auto, or the year old with real leather, vented seats and a heated steering wheel? And I've just been talking myself in circles for weeks. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 19:42 on May 28, 2021 |
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May 28, 2021 19:39
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PittTheElder posted:Well I'm leaning towards buying a year old used model, which sadly means giving up the preferential 0-1% rate I could otherwise get from an OEM. I do have the cash to buy it outright, but the more I look at this the more that looks like a stupid decision. how much money are you really saving by buying a year old used model? (my guess in the current market is very little) 7% is steep, I imagine your bank can do better for you unless your credit really sucks
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May 28, 2021 19:42
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I mean my credit should be excellent, though I haven't actually pulled a score or anything. Like I was actually confused nobody (outside of OEMs) seems to be offering better than 6-7%, I don't know if that's a Canada thing or what. Gonna call those guys again this afternoon. Used model is discounted about $7k off what the same trim would be new right now, 18,000 km.
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May 28, 2021 19:46
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PittTheElder posted:Well I could just make the monthly payments without drawing down the investment. But yeah you're right that in the scenario where I pay cash, the proper alternative is to count the payment I'm not making as investments. Put total cost of ownership on each option on a piece of paper and ask if you can live with those numbers for the features you get. Save the accounting for later, assume worst case loan terms, and ask your gut can I live with this number disappearing from my bank accounts for my shiny chariot. Your answers may surprise you.
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May 28, 2021 20:17
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never buy things, only make Number Go Up
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May 28, 2021 21:42
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Ford Maverick is coming out soon if all y'all want to put your money where your mouth is on small trucks. Hell. loving. Yes. I don't make new car money, but if it's any good at all I am absolutely grabbing one of these used as soon as I can. Please do it right, Ford, don't gently caress this up. (People who like this not wanting to buy it new, one more nail in its inevitable coffin) PCjr sidecar posted:Also the hyundai santa cruz if youre feeling like a baja/brat/camino Hell yes to this style-wise, but it's a shame they based it on a mid-sized SUV and not a compact like the Maverick. Still too big. I don't hate the look of the base Bronco Sport, tbh, if they end up being reliable-ish that might also be an option. Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 23:47 on May 28, 2021 |
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May 28, 2021 23:42
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I was about to put money down for a new car but after we "agreed" on a price the dealership guy snuck in some bullshit called StarGuard for $995. He said it was a theft deterrent device but one second of Googling shows that it's just a way for dealerships to track down past-due cars to repossess them. It's creepy and I don't want it. Also, apparently it's just a simple killswitch that probably costs a few dollars to manufacture and gets sold to the dealership for almost nothing. Then they charge the buyer 995! He's insisting that it's already installed and required for the purchase. This is the "official" regional Kia dealership, not some random lot swindling people with bad credit. I have perfect credit and am not about to agree to that because I'm out of options or something. They know I'm good for it and just want the 995. it's really annoying me because I really just want to pay for the stupid car and go. I can't believe they still do this stuff. I thought this was all set so stop researching other deals and all that. Probably stupid on my part, but I've never bought a car before. I also have a Costco membership that's supposed to save a few bucks, he said he applied that discount (which I think is true) but I've asked for a copy of the price sheet that Costco instructs you to request, and he's ignored that request a couple times. My instinct is telling me to walk away, but I want this one. It's nothing special, just a '21 Kia Soul. Normally I'd just wait for something else to come along but I need a car by next week. If I call him and convince him to take out the StarGuard thing, does this sound like an ok deal? '21 Kia Soul GT-Line, total price 21000 after rebates, 2.5% for 60mos (though I could pay this off early and plan to do so). Sorry this is kind of a rant, just happened and needed to vent. I reeeally don't want to shop for cars any more but I'm not paying a grand for some cheap device invented to stalk poor people! Is there an easier option? ---- I also sold my Corolla to CarMax yesterday. In January 2020, they offered $7,100 for it. Then yesterday they cut me a check for $10,300. In that ~1.5 year span I added deep scratches to the doors and rear panels on BOTH sides, got more dents and dings everywhere, added a 1" long thin but obvious tear to the rear upholstery, and put 4k more miles on it. Yet I got $3,200 more dollars for it. Are they doing an Uber thing where they lose money on purpose to corner the market? That is an insane increase, even if used cars are in demand.
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May 29, 2021 02:27
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I would not buy a car with an anti-theft device spliced into the wiring loom by some grease monkey, even if they zero out the $1,000 (!) installation fee.
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May 29, 2021 02:37
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gamer roomie is 41 posted:I was about to put money down for a new car but after we "agreed" on a price the dealership guy snuck in some bullshit called StarGuard for $995. He said it was a theft deterrent device but one second of Googling shows that it's just a way for dealerships to track down past-due cars to repossess them. It's creepy and I don't want it. Also, apparently it's just a simple killswitch that probably costs a few dollars to manufacture and gets sold to the dealership for almost nothing. Then they charge the buyer 995!
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May 29, 2021 02:42
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Uthor posted:I would not buy a car with an anti-theft device spliced into the wiring loom by some grease monkey, even if they zero out the $1,000 (!) installation fee. This. If it is actually already installed I wouldn't want the car even if they waive the fee.
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May 29, 2021 02:50
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Uthor posted:I would not buy a car with an anti-theft device spliced into the wiring loom by some grease monkey, even if they zero out the $1,000 (!) installation fee. Tyro posted:This. If it is actually already installed I wouldn't want the car even if they waive the fee. There's a few car forums where people have said the same thing, one kid said he was installing them at a dealership even though he wasn't a mechanic. Just jamming wires into the steering column of a brand new car lol, very cool. I might still try talking about it w/ the salesperson, if it actually has *not* been installed yet and I can get that in writing and verified I might still go for it. got off on a technicality posted:It's 100% bs, including the missing price sheet and the line about it already being installed. Tell him he can call you when he's ready to deal at the price that was agreed on and not a penny more, and start calling other Kia dealerships. As you say, this isn't some kind of unicorn car you're looking to buy. Also it's the end of the month, and people will be motivated to make some Memorial Day deals happen. My guess is you'll get a call back within a day or two So is this normal car salesman shadiness, or is this unusually bad? Like I said this is the actual Kia dealership, I thought those were generally more above-board than used car lots. I wouldn't be against getting a newer used car somewhere or a different kind of car. The Soul just seemed like a good price and the tall hatchback would've been helpful, plus that GT-line had all the nice extras we like. Anyone happen to have a recommendation near Berkeley? Too many fake reviews online for these joints, can't tell who's legit.
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May 29, 2021 03:29
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Kia and Hyundai dealers are generally shadier and pushier than average. Largely from historical lower-cost/lower credit market/buyer positions, despite the product moving upmarket.
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May 29, 2021 03:33
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The Kia dealership my brother works at doesn't do this, but also  .n'thing don't buy this car, if they already bodged in this device then they've absolutely wrecked the brand-new wiring harness.
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May 29, 2021 03:46
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Yeah now I'm over it, now I'm not getting it either way. Currently looking at the Mazda CX-30. It's slightly more expensive but under still 25 and seems much nicer.
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May 29, 2021 04:43
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GD_American posted:I have a 2008 Saab Turbo X that I'm about to put up for sale, since the wife and I are both working from home (and will carpool even when we do go back to the office, as our hours are similar and we work near each other). So I'm not looking to buy for a bit (certainly not until the used car market returns to some semblance of normalcy). Saturn Sky, Pontiac Solstice?
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May 29, 2021 04:45
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Number_6 posted:Saturn Sky, Pontiac Solstice? Chrysler Crossfire?
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May 29, 2021 05:33
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2002-2005 thunderbird.
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May 29, 2021 14:00
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Cage posted:2002-2005 thunderbird. eh, fun to drive around in but not fun to drive
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May 29, 2021 14:25
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This may be a glimpse into my extraordinarily deranged mind but that budget could get you a very nice RX8. The rabid RX8 people say they're actually fairly reliable if you get a nice one and do special things for them (let them warm up, put oil in the gas, use better plugs, redline once every time you drive it, etc.) but I don't know how true that is. At any rate they are pretty quick, super fun to drive, quite unique and hilariously cheap to insure because in the eyes of an insurance company it's a 4-door 1.3L instead of a RWD sports car.
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May 29, 2021 14:49
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DildenAnders posted:This may be a glimpse into my extraordinarily deranged mind but that budget could get you a very nice RX8. The rabid RX8 people say they're actually fairly reliable if you get a nice one and do special things for them (let them warm up, put oil in the gas, use better plugs, redline once every time you drive it, etc.) but I don't know how true that is. At any rate they are pretty quick, super fun to drive, quite unique and hilariously cheap to insure because in the eyes of an insurance company it's a 4-door 1.3L instead of a RWD sports car. that's not how insurance works, you think those boys are idiots or something?
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May 29, 2021 15:28
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Number_6 posted:Saturn Sky, Pontiac Solstice? I owned a Solstice GXP for a hot minute in my 20s. The top, trunk, and non-synchro reverse will drive you absolutely insane. Don't do it
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May 29, 2021 18:01
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:that's not how insurance works, you think those boys are idiots or something? The real answer is that insurance companies know the RX-8 is a) worthless and b) unlikely to run well enough for long enough to cause damage to someone else. I still low key want one as a track beater but holy gently caress if you have to be recommended an RX-8 youl shouldn't ever consider it.
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May 29, 2021 18:30
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Went out to test some compact SUVs today. Mazda CX-5 Touring: Handled really well, suspension felt nicely tuned, nice and zippy. Interior was pretty fancy but didn't feel that big. Nice stereo... Honda CR-V Hybrid Touring: Felt like a step down from the CX-5 in terms of handling and finish. But it was bigger! Also my wife preferred the bells and whistles here. Toyota RAV-4 Hybrid: They didn't even have one to show us! All they had was the primes. We couldn't even test drive a certified preowned model. Just peaked in the window of one that was in for service. They were all hitting the chip shortage note pretty hard. I'd roll my eyes, but there was literally one CR-V Hybrid on the lot and zero RAV-4s. On the plus side, this cut down on the salesman bullshit. I had been leaning toward the RAV-4 previously, but might take a pass at the Honda. Going to see what kind of deal I can get through Costco Auto.
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May 29, 2021 22:01
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Chad Sexington posted:Went out to test some compact SUVs today. We came to the same conclusions. I actually liked how the crv drove and the rav wasnt even on our radar, but I figured we should try the rav anyways and my wife loved it so thats what we went with. Two years later and she still loves it so thats good-too slow for me though.
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May 29, 2021 22:44
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Man I just bought a Mazda CX-30 online and forgot to request the Costco price sheet... I hope I didn't lose out on too much. Oh well, it would've only been a few hundred off max, and it feels good to just have it done with. They're delivering it to my house the day I'm moving in. After many long years of driving beaters, then nice-ish but boring used economy cars, I finally got my first brand new car! The sales manager was telling me all about the chip shortage and how it's going to be a tough few months at least for new car sales. He claimed a lot of incentives and promo rates are disappearing because there's no inventory to churn through. I'm happy with my $500 off and 0.9% financing. Is there any truth to him saying that I had "just made it" with my deal before some shift in how new cars will be priced? It could be salesman bs to make me feel savvy and cool, but this conversation happened after I already bought the thing so I'm not sure what the point of glad-handing would be at that point. Very glad I didn't go with the similarly-priced Kia Soul with 2.25% interest rate and a $995 mandatory aftermarket surveillance system lol
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May 29, 2021 22:53
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Number_6 posted:Saturn Sky, Pontiac Solstice? Woof, that top. GM needed about 50 years more of R&D before they should have tried a roadster. Definitely fits the outside-the-box criteria, but no thanks Loan Dusty Road posted:Chrysler Crossfire? Are they any fun? I know they look weird enough Cage posted:2002-2005 thunderbird. I'm trying to keep my midlife crisis at least somewhat camoflaged, so no. But definitely on the right track
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May 29, 2021 22:56
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I think it will have an effect, and likely both in an increase in prices and a decrease in supply, but I wouldnt indulge what a salesperson has to say about it. Edit: Nor do I expect anyone to trust my opinion for anything more than just that. nitsuga fucked around with this message at 23:03 on May 29, 2021 |
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May 29, 2021 23:00
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GD_American posted:Are they any fun? I know they look weird enough Are you Doug DeMuro's twin brother or something? Anyways, you're basically the target market for a Plymouth Prowler. KillHour fucked around with this message at 23:07 on May 29, 2021 |
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May 29, 2021 23:04
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gamer roomie is 41 posted:Man I just bought a Mazda CX-30 online and forgot to request the Costco price sheet... I hope I didn't lose out on too much. Oh well, it would've only been a few hundred off max, and it feels good to just have it done with. They're delivering it to my house the day I'm moving in. After many long years of driving beaters, then nice-ish but boring used economy cars, I finally got my first brand new car! Inventory on your local lots for any make probably isn't going anywhere but down this summer which may trigger mid year MSRP changes. Facebook friend bs. etc but a highschool acquaintance is mechanic at a Ford dealership and he was posting they have 0 deliveries scheduled in June.
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May 29, 2021 23:28
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gamer roomie is 41 posted:The sales manager was telling me all about the chip shortage and how it's going to be a tough few months at least for new car sales. He claimed a lot of incentives and promo rates are disappearing because there's no inventory to churn through. I'm happy with my $500 off and 0.9% financing. Is there any truth to him saying that I had "just made it" with my deal before some shift in how new cars will be priced? It could be salesman bs to make me feel savvy and cool, but this conversation happened after I already bought the thing so I'm not sure what the point of glad-handing would be at that point. We were hearing similar stuff today. Honda guy was saying hybrids might go above MSRP this summer because they're just not getting any in. As always, could be total horseshit, but I didn't get the sense he was blowing smoke up my rear end because there was only hybrid car on the lot and he seemed confident he was moving it this weekend. I find myself moving away from the hybrids given that I probably don't drive enough to justify them and contemplating a regular Honda CR-V EX-L. 0.9% APR would be sweet too.
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May 29, 2021 23:36
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GD_American posted:Are they any fun? I know they look weird enough Youd want to look at the super charged SRT6 version. The base version handles decent enough but isnt fast with only 220 HP. I believe the supercharged one is 330. It shares the same engine and drivetrain as the Mercedes SLK 300.
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May 30, 2021 00:53
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gamer roomie is 41 posted:Man I just bought a Mazda CX-30 online The CX-30 looks like a sweet rear end ride. Congrats!
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May 30, 2021 01:24
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