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Flesnolk posted:Can’t be that noble if he became an Apostle. He got rail roaded pretty hard by destiny
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May 28, 2021 21:33
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There's a moment at the end of the blackswords man arc (part 1) when Guts and Griffith meet. Griffith tries to use some power from his hands but it doesn't work. I don't know if it was because Guts was physical and Femto is spiritual but he learns that there are limits to his power. Griffith realized that he is bound, like the king, to rules and that even he can't transcend as far as previously thought.
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May 28, 2021 21:35
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multijoe posted:Griffith's got exactly what he wanted all long, he's the king of the world and everybody loves him. I don't know why it should be taken as read that it's a scam and he's planning to kill his devoted followers - he is *literally* living the dream Now then, can we honestly say that Griffith cares more about the people of Falconia than the Hawks? What if his dream is challenged from outside (Silat's people, elves, the Godhand)? There are plenty of apostles to help in a battle, but they're oh so tired and just need some nice humans to chomp... down go the Falconians. That's just within what we clearly know, but what about the variable number of Godhand? If there's a reboot, how is the leftover single member decided? Greatest sacrifice? If they kill/remove each other, what's the collateral damage? There seems to be lots of room for Griffith to use his devoted followers again when needed, and it's not so much a voluntary strategy as much as it's his pattern of using people when the opportunity arises. (Which makes me think of another weird angle, that Griffith ab/used himself for the dream, so is there an outcome where Femto battles against the Godhand to save Casca/Guts? Because he realizes he does care.)
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May 28, 2021 22:23
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Ccs posted:The Grunbeld novel has some cool insert illustrations from Miura but woof, I did not enjoy it. If that's how light novels are written, count me out.
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May 28, 2021 22:32
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:(Which makes me think of another weird angle, that Griffith ab/used himself for the dream, so is there an outcome where Femto battles against the Godhand to save Casca/Guts? Because he realizes he does care.) EDIT: Okay the more I think about this the more it feels like the most coherent way for Berserk to end. Instead of Guts dying, we get Griffith dying to protect that which he cares for the most, which in the end turns out to be Guts and Caska.
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May 28, 2021 22:46
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Not sure if this is a Berserk tribute but that is the feeling I get from it https://mobile.twitter.com/MilesJohnston/status/1398312008412434433
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May 29, 2021 00:22
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Re: statecraft, I suppose there's this to consider  Guts is hardly what I'd call an objective observer, but the notion that Griffith, again, being pot committed, just feels that he must go Up, from wherever he might be, does check out. It's not enough to have a kingdom, it must be ONLY kingdom, in fact it must be the new Empire, in fact it must be a modernized state, and of course let's not forget that whole I'm An Evil Demigod business. Maybe he intends to wipe out the other 4 eventually,in which case I think he'll find his brain simply isn't the biggest.
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May 29, 2021 11:29
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Rody One Half posted:Re: statecraft, I suppose there's this to consider One thing I've always wondered In the original anime, do we know who decided Void should be the narrator? Because if it was the creator himself that implies some importance for him, even more than we currently had
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May 29, 2021 19:45
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Rody One Half posted:Re: statecraft, I suppose there's this to consider That's exactly it. Griffith is a twelve year old boy playing Total War/Civilization/SimCity/your Paradox map painter of choice with all the cheat codes on and editing hexadecimal values in all the .ini files to make sure his place is The Biggest And Strongest And Best Forever.
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May 29, 2021 20:56
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Burkion posted:One thing I've always wondered Rody One Half posted:Maybe he intends to wipe out the other 4 eventually,in which case I think he'll find his brain simply isn't the biggest. Ngl though now I just want to see what the other Eclipses looked like. Part of me would have been fine if Miura did nothing but fanservice flashbacks to each one solely for spectacle.
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May 29, 2021 23:30
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im re-reading this like I suspect a lot of people are doing and this page is very low-key tragic like lmao jesus Guts he really had no idea?? 
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May 30, 2021 00:38
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Seriously every part of the Golden Age is just so loaded with pathos it's incredible.
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May 30, 2021 01:01
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Guts always saw Griffith as a beacon of strength and could never imagine him being so weak as to just completely snap like that.
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May 30, 2021 01:04
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Part of the tragedy is that Guts was a firmer believer in Griffith's ethos than anyone, he just didn't realize Griffith was and always has been driven by ego.
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May 30, 2021 02:38
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https://twitter.com/p8HMIUHYW1KUF6c/status/1398977195750543366
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May 30, 2021 13:21
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I'm seein' double here... Four Dragonslayers!
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May 30, 2021 16:04
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The japanese translated for those of us who dont speak moonspeak: "Goddess of the spring where the dragonslayer was dropped"
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May 30, 2021 21:23
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Hunt11 posted:Guts always saw Griffith as a beacon of strength and could never imagine him being so weak as to just completely snap like that. He also just genuinely did not realize that Griffith cared about him in the way that he did. When Guts overhears Griffith talking to Charlotte about how he doesn't consider anybody in the Hawks his comrade because they're not his equal, Guts assumes he's also lumped into that bucket. He assumes his leaving wouldn't impact Griffith any more than Corkus or any such rando leaving or dying. What makes Guts leaving the hawks such a tragedy is that it's all predicated on a misunderstanding. Guts thinks he has to leave in order to strike out on his own and foster a dream that would let him stand as a true friend to Griffith, but Griffith already considered Guts a friend - his only true friend at that - and so he can only see Guts' decision to leave as a personal betrayal.
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May 30, 2021 22:00
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Also Griffith believed his own hype and had been on way too long of a winning streak to not take the humbling by Guts super personally. Again it's not a coincidence that he immediately went to a barely legal fangirl who wasn't at the fight to immediately get reassured that he was dominant, sexy, and a god among his fellow men. The tragedy is he couldn't have just hooked up with Casca or anyone else "under" him, he had to shoot for the Princess.
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May 30, 2021 22:14
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Technically, Charlotte was an old maid by princess standards as Griffith pointed out during his torture. She was immature emotionally maybe but the story considered her past her prime to be unwed. Griffith was power-sexual. Casca was a peasant. Hell, Guts was a peasant. He only was attracted to those with something (material) to give. temple fucked around with this message at 22:34 on May 30, 2021 |
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May 30, 2021 22:32
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Where does Griffith's fever dream of being married to Casca and having Guts as their child fit in? Or...wait. Was Guts their child in that scene, or was Guts the dog their child was playing with?
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May 30, 2021 22:54
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Mazed posted:Where does Griffith's fever dream of being married to Casca and having Guts as their child fit in? I thought Guts was Casca's husband in the dream, but was off doing mercenary work to get the family money? Griffith was like, the uncle Casca was acting as carer for. Been years since I read that part of the manga though.
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May 30, 2021 23:22
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Mazed posted:Where does Griffith's fever dream of being married to Casca and having Guts as their child fit in?
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May 30, 2021 23:22
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The kid in the vision is also almost certainly Guts and Casca's child. Casca was already pregnant at the time with Guts' kid and given what Griffith was put through by the torturer there's no way in hell his junk was intact. The vison was what Griffith's life would be like if he didn't go through with the sacrifice.mind the walrus posted:Also Griffith believed his own hype and had been on way too long of a winning streak to not take the humbling by Guts super personally. One of Griffith's issues was definitely that he could only see relationships in terms of power dynamics. He "wants" Guts, decides that Guts "belongs to him", and consequently sees his trying to leave through that distorted lens. Griffith even justifies potentially having to kill Guts in their duel with "well if I can't have him nobody can." Which again feeds into the tragedy of their relationship: like Guts, Griffith had what he really wanted but couldn't see it. He had in Guts a friend and and equal, but because of his hosed up worldview he decided Guts belonged to him, which exacerbated his reaction when Guts not only leaves, but smokes Griffith in a duel on the way out the door, thus "proving" himself the stronger in the relationship. And yeah, that he immediately moves on to somebody he knows he can dominate - drat the consequences - and thinks of Guts the whole time he's doing it makes it pretty clear what's going on.
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May 31, 2021 03:02
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Yeah that's Guts' kid. That's why he tries to derangedly force himself on Casca despite being a husk missing most of his tendons and definitely also his junk. That fantasy is him sandpapering himself to the absolute utmost, unable to conceive of being so utterly powerless. Dude doesn't even have a tongue, so he can't even be the strategic leader since he can't loving talk to any of his subordinates (random thought: can any of the Hawk leaders read do you think? Judeau's a noble so he probably can. Maybe Rikert or Casca?). Power is everything in Griffith's head, and every power he had has been stripped away. He can't gently caress, he can't fight, he can't give orders, he can't even move. Like Zodd said from the jump, when Griffith's ambitions turn to dust, his sacrifice was inevitable, because ambition is all the guy thinks he has.
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May 31, 2021 03:27
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Sydin posted:The kid in the vision is also almost certainly Guts and Casca's child. Casca was already pregnant at the time with Guts' kid and given what Griffith was put through by the torturer there's no way in hell his junk was intact. The vison was what Griffith's life would be like if he didn't go through with the sacrifice. Nobody knew. Casca didn't know. They hosed like 2 days before. He had the vision before the eclipse. In fact, I was going to bring this scene earlier up.
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May 31, 2021 03:29
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Griffith doesn't have to know she's pregnant at that time. Doesn't he see her and Guts confessing or something? That'd be enough for psycho fantasy purposes
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May 31, 2021 03:33
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Black Swordsman, Guts: I can't be bothered by some good-for-nothing bastard acting like we're friends. He'll end up dragging me down with him. Later: The reward for ambition too great is self destruction. Meanwhile he's fighting with himself about Vargas. Of course Guts was going after the count anyway, but now there's this tinge of compassion creeping in, which he blows away with anger. There's also this interesting spot where he starts to transform, teeth start growing pointed, fingers turn into claws... I guess it's either supposed to be possession or ultimately non-canon, cause I don't think dogguts looks like that. Anyway, I feel like the initial statement is more aimed at Griffith than the Hawks in general, but it's fairly clear even at this early stage why Guts is keeping people away. That hidden compassion is actually about him not dragging others into the mess, which seems fairly well established by the end of Lost Children. ps Sorry I'm not quite keeping up with the book club. 
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May 31, 2021 04:20
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Its a mix of compassion but more of helplessness. Guts knows he can't change the world or save the small people. So drat them. He says in blackswords man that its better to die than live under a killer. He rather risk it all than slowly lose it all. There's a panel I really appreciate in the very beginning where he's by the tavern where he saves puck or the girl (in the tv series). He sees a girl locked in a celled wagon. Its so subtle you could miss it. Guts always saw the injustice of the world but he never directly confronts it. The apostles bring out his nascent heroism. I really appreciate a sane hero that knows the world is hosed but still acknowledges its cruelty.
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May 31, 2021 04:42
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I have to admit, I'm still hurting from losing Miura. Just pops into my mind randomly during the day and boom, sad.
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May 31, 2021 18:54
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I preordered this God Hand tank top and maybe you guys would want in on these Berserk shirts. https://flowerchainz.us
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May 31, 2021 19:17
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Josuke Higashikata posted:I have to admit, I'm still hurting from losing Miura. Just pops into my mind randomly during the day and boom, sad. Same. It's a tragedy and injustice to the whole world. E: I've also been slowly making my way through Berserk from the beginning, despite my busy schedule. I'm at Guardians of Desire now with Guts about to face the Count. It's really interesting to see Guts' early personality with the benefit of future context and how he's coping with the trauma he picked up from the Golden Age Era. Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jun 1, 2021 |
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Jun 1, 2021 00:43
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After a while being busy with other stuff, I'm back on my poo poo and Rickert has a penis head. E: Ah poo poo, Griffith already has a lippy egg Miura you coward draw Griffith's dick Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Jun 2, 2021 |
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Jun 2, 2021 03:43
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Waffleman_ posted:After a while being busy with other stuff, I'm back on my poo poo and Rickert has a penis head. be careful what you wish for
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Jun 2, 2021 05:13
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Mazed posted:Where does Griffith's fever dream of being married to Casca and having Guts as their child fit in? I had to look this one up, because it's presented as a brief aside that only lasts three pages* right before the Eclipse kicks off, so it's easy to overlook, but I had a bookmark ready to go from the last time I thought about it 'cause this section really doesn't get enough critical analysis, IMO. Guts is their child, Pippin is the dog. My take on that vision, with the additional context of everything else that came after it, is that it was foreshadowing an ending where Guts and Casca reconciled after her reawakening and raised the Moonlight Boy together while Griffith was somehow trapped inside the boy's body, able to observe everything but unable to move or speak, Johnny Got His Gun-style. It would require some magical shenanigans, but Berserk is full of those, and it would also embody all of the core themes of hubris, torture, redemption, eternal suffering, etc. *about 1/4 of the way through Volume 12
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Jun 2, 2021 05:14
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Love to see just how much Berserk inspired a bunch of other stuff by which I mean I'm reading Nosferatu Zodd and Hercules from Fate/Stay Night has to be at least partially inspired by this in design, huh. E: Vertical spreads! Fun! Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jun 2, 2021 |
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Jun 2, 2021 05:15
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The list of things Berserk inspired is incredibly vast, but absolutely ridden with mediocrity. Sturgeon's law is emphatically real. I would assert that the few Berserk "tributes" that actually work (that I've seen) are the Dark Souls games, which use a toned-down facsimile of the aesthetic (dialed back up in the third, which is more Berserk-grade tense and grotesque) and maintains a melancholic thread about the nature of humanity, and Final Fantasy, which puts a spin on the Guts-Griffith dynamic with Cloud and Sephiroth in FF7, and in FF14 has the Dark Knight quests, which take an introspective look at dealing with trauma and loss. Mazed fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Jun 2, 2021 |
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Jun 2, 2021 05:50
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Waffleman_ posted:Love to see just how much Berserk inspired a bunch of other stuff by which I mean I'm reading Nosferatu Zodd and Hercules from Fate/Stay Night has to be at least partially inspired by this in design, huh. This post is the final push I needed to confirm something  First appearance: Young Animal #12, October 1992 (I would use art from his first appearance, but he's buck rear end naked the entire time)  First appearance: Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, 1994
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Jun 2, 2021 06:15
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OnimaruXLR posted:This post is the final push I needed to confirm something I mean both draw visual inspiration from Oni and Nio, and they're contemporary enough for it to be a coincidence most likely.
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Jun 2, 2021 06:46
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FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
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