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Abugadu posted:Has anyone else run into this property law issue: B and/or C will surely resolve this amicably between themselves. No need to get a bunch of suits involved.
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May 26, 2021 15:10
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Yeah have you ever considered just finding an agreement where everybody is happy? What is with this law bullshit you keep nagging about
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May 26, 2021 15:41
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If you're the seller, absent written instructions from B and C, I would act as if the property should be transferred to B and C jointly and if asked say that the "/or" is simply a right for the buyers to agree on a different distribution. Big lol at that language making it past drafting, though.
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May 26, 2021 17:07
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Abugadu posted:Has anyone else run into this property law issue: I know bryan garner says something like "only an idiot would use a virgule in legal writing" Here, does a conveyance to "A or B" even make sense? I think it would have to be interpreted as "and"
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May 26, 2021 17:10
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Abugadu posted:Has anyone else run into this property law issue: My first thought is that you don't have a grant; if the granting language doesn't make a clear and definite grantee, then nothing at all happened.
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May 26, 2021 19:21
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I can't say I've seen that specific issue (and/or in the granting clause) but I have seen stuff like, "to my brother" when there's two brothers, and other language that resulted in a failed grant because it didn't identify the grantee, or the real property with sufficient specificity.
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May 26, 2021 19:23
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What if one of C and B is dead?
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May 27, 2021 00:28
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Meatbag Esq. posted:What if one of C and B is dead? Should just go to their estate. I’m not w either side, I’m advising our registrar in a Torrens system jurisdiction on whether or not to accept the deed for filing.
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May 27, 2021 00:58
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Ugh, were just transferring real estate. Why use twelve words when seven will probably get the job done? Let's bill for the time we saved anyway and go out for drinks!
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May 27, 2021 04:54
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Meatbag Esq. posted:What if one of C and B is dead? Abugadu posted:Should just go to their estate. I would think so. Abugadu posted:I’m not w either side, I’m advising our registrar in a Torrens system jurisdiction on whether or not to accept the deed for filing. I think all you can do is research it and see. Search tags like, ("multiple" or "two" or "indefinite" or "and/or") w/5 "grantee"
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May 27, 2021 15:02
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Abugadu posted:Should just go to their estate. Its Texas so its not super helpful, but I've been through several permutations of "conveyance" and ("and/or" /20 "grantee") and "ambiguous" and cannot find a case that ever deals with an "and/or" in the grant. I quizzed a smarter attorney than me and he has the opposite view - the "and" creates an undivided 1/2 interest, and the "or" fails, whereas my instinct is that the grant fails because its not ambiguous - its not subject to multiple interpretations because you can't read it as definitively saying anything because it says both "to Bob and Bill" and also says, "Just to Bill" and you can't read it as saying one or the other because it says both. Tough one!
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May 27, 2021 15:24
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The closest I could find was a fishing easement: quote:The Grantee hereby agrees that, when said Lake is completed, the Grantors together with their children living or visiting with them (except W. R., J.C. and Noah Freeman) are hereby given the right to go upon the waters covering the above land and fish therein... The interpretation there is just the word "or" by itself, and again the Court finds that because the word "or" means that both parties qualify for the interest, there is no conflicting provision that creates a conflict between who the grantee might be, which I would read to mean, by implication, that if such a conflict arose to make it impossible to determine who the grantee was, then the conveyance would at least be ambiguous, and subject to parole evidence.
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May 27, 2021 15:49
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blarzgh posted:I would think so. "virgule"!
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May 27, 2021 16:53
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Don't know jurisdiction or case law, but absent a clear controlling case, judge is gonna go with easiest legal outcome and say conveyance failed. Cynicism on forums: .02 hours.
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May 27, 2021 18:55
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Abugadu posted:Should just go to their estate. This is highly dependant in Norway. Estates can't always claim unexpedited rights such as transfer of realestate, but might provide a transferrable right to ownership. Actual ownership and right to registered title is distinct and counted separately for eligibility and limitations etc. For some stupid reason.
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May 27, 2021 19:30
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Nice piece of fish posted:This is highly dependant in Norway. Estates can't always claim unexpedited rights such as transfer of realestate, but might provide a transferrable right to ownership. Actual ownership and right to registered title is distinct and counted separately for eligibility and limitations etc. For some stupid reason. Yeah, and Abugadu is on some island nation I think. Or maybe thats Tokelu All Star?
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May 27, 2021 19:57
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Guam or something, right?
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May 27, 2021 20:03
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Conveyance failed would be such a perversion of intent though, if it meant that neither B nor C ended up with any interest. Like if the conveyance failed, and D ended up with everything, that would be a manifest perversion of the intent of the grant, because it is clear that the grantor intended something to at least one of B or C. My (very vague) recollection is that courts will usually treat and/or language like this to mean "and". But I don't have any case law on hand to back that up.
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May 28, 2021 15:51
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blarzgh posted:Yeah, and Abugadu is on some island nation I think. Or maybe thats Tokelu All Star? Abugadu is CNMI, I'm from HI but I've been suffering in the Midwest for a couple years now.
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May 28, 2021 16:31
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In patent law the USPTO interprets A And/or B to be equivalent to A or B or A and B. It also would be more efficient to write "at least one of A and B". In this context of a conveyance that doesn't have further qualifier like "whoever is surviving" I don't think this interpretation makes much sense.
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May 28, 2021 18:46
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it should be a bannable offense to make me read property hypotheticals
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May 28, 2021 18:55
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Tokelau All Star posted:'m from HI but I've been suffering in the Midwest for a couple years now. OH NO
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May 28, 2021 19:04
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Is the Midwest what Hawaiians call the mainland?
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May 28, 2021 19:14
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Unfortunately in this case it's the actual Midwest, but it's almost over, my partner is finishing her residency this summer and we're getting tfoh and jetting back.
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May 28, 2021 19:39
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Soothing Vapors posted:it should be a bannable offense to make me read property hypotheticals Law Megathread: Get out of here with that Blackacre poo poo
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May 28, 2021 19:42
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Tokelau All Star posted:Abugadu is CNMI, I'm from HI but I've been suffering in the Midwest for a couple years now. i always feel bad meeting hawaiians who are now in chicago. was talking to one in mid october who said 'gosh it sure is cold, but luckily i think it can't get any worse than this (it was like 55 F)' and everyone was screaming at her about getting a real jacket mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 21:59 on May 28, 2021 |
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May 28, 2021 21:54
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Really regretting those episodes in which we did blackacre
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May 28, 2021 22:13
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How can I take adverse possession of fish’s cabin? I don’t speak Bork Bork Borkese.
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May 28, 2021 23:49
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Tokelau All Star posted:Abugadu is CNMI, I'm from HI but I've been suffering in the Midwest for a couple years now. Buddy you're going backwards
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May 29, 2021 00:33
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Toona the Cat posted:How can I take adverse possession of fish’s cabin? I don’t speak Bork Bork Borkese. First step would be to become a lawyer
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May 29, 2021 00:34
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I was in Hawaii last year. I live in Minnesota. I have no idea why you would ever leave that state for anything in the Midwest, even on a fairly temporary basis
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May 29, 2021 01:34
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SlyFrog posted:I was in Hawaii last year. I live in Minnesota. Not just the midwest, michigan IIRC. Warmer than MN in the winter but hope you enjoy not seeing the sun.
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May 29, 2021 02:48
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My last year of undergrad in Chicago one of my roommates was from Hawaii, and then my stepsister's wife, who also lived in Chicago, was native Hawaiian. Chicago was bad enough for me being Texan, just knowing when it snowed in October that was it for the next six months, I have no idea how they handled it...
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May 29, 2021 03:46
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Toona the Cat posted:How can I take adverse possession of fish’s cabin? I don’t speak Bork Bork Borkese. Oh it'll be adverse alright. Bring your good knife.
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May 29, 2021 05:45
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Vox Nihili posted:First step would be to become a lawyer I passed the bar 2 years ago
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May 29, 2021 14:15
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Nice piece of fish posted:Oh it'll be adverse alright. Bring your good knife. I’ll bring my bris knife.
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May 29, 2021 14:23
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Kind of a weird question but I'm doing some research and need a real world example of how a US judge would order a forensic audit done on the electronic devices of a big company (specifically, Google). Does anyone have any precedent or articles I could look up? The specific scenario is that some time ago the Wikipedia article (and other content that got SEOd to the top) for a local notable person got edited to say some defamatory stuff and Google's information sidebar automatically updated to reflect that info, so for a few hours if you Googled that person it would say something like "Jane Doe - C.E.Hoe of Bitch, Inc.", and now Jane Doe is suing Google for defamation, and as part of the suit has asked for a forensic audit to be conducted Google's servers to determine stuff like how many people saw the sidebar, the sources Google used, it's vetting process, etc. I'm not counsel for either party, obviously, I'm just writing up a short blog post about it and was hoping to find some background on how an audit like that might even take place in a real country since the local judge clearly has absolutely no idea how to handle this.
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May 31, 2021 00:22
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Soothing Vapors posted:it should be a bannable offense to make me read property hypotheticals It should be a bannable offense to make me have to read SV's posts
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May 31, 2021 10:30
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Also mods: please change my name to Jane Doe - C.E.Hoe of Bitch, Inc.
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May 31, 2021 10:31
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SlyFrog posted:I was in Hawaii last year. I live in Minnesota. Some people go crazy being “stuck” on an island. Those people are obviously dumb.
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May 31, 2021 13:04
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