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Triggerhappypilot posted:Really hope Tesla doesn't do anything stupid like disable the radar-based AEB on cars that already have them with a software update. I don't really care about autopilot since i hardly use it already due to lack of trust and I've been quite happy with the car as is. Doing something like that would definitely mean I wouldn't ever buy a Tesla again, though. This is definitely a gay black hitler situation but if they did I would probably immediately trade mine in for a different brand. Edit: cat and dog tax 
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May 31, 2021 02:54
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I have no faith in the detection capabilities of a camera the quality of which is in a model 3/y as a single sensory input based on what the dashcam puts to disk. Think of every situation you've been in where you're using context clues or driving in a more defensive manner because of sunlight or rain or fog or whatever. Yes, humans do not have radar, but it is an excellent second input to detect THING in front of a vehicle should the garbage sensor be obstructed with lens flares, water, fog, or ice.
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May 31, 2021 02:56
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Qwijib0 posted:Yes, humans do not have radar, but it is an excellent second input to detect THING in front of a vehicle should the garbage sensor be obstructed with lens flares, water, fog, or ice. Exactly - if you can make a self-driving car even safer by adding a reasonably-priced sensor that can see things human eyes can't, doing so is generally a good thing.
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May 31, 2021 03:19
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Indiana_Krom posted:Yeah, you can't replace radar with pure vision because they are very different things, but what if radar is actually kind of a rubbish sensor and having it isn't really that useful? . Even if it's a relatively lovely sensor, I think the point of driver assistance is to supplement driving skill (shaddup I know what Elong is promising). If that means relying on a gestalt because that's what's best *now* then I think bypassing the radar sensors is a step back. And by all indications, a pure-vision system is not ideal.
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May 31, 2021 03:28
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BIG DRYWALL MAN posted:This is definitely a gay black hitler situation but if they did I would probably immediately trade mine in for a different brand. What does a gay black hitler situation mean?
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May 31, 2021 03:39
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Charles posted:What does a gay black hitler situation mean? Its a situation that is so outlandish and not inline with history, i.e. what if Russia didnt invade Poland, what if hitler was also black and gay, etc. Though thinking about it more, it wouldnt be out of line for Tesla to pull something like that.
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May 31, 2021 03:59
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We will save money on relatively inexpensive sensors by simply replicating human cognition is so Silicon Valley broke brained that I’m astounded that people take it seriously, and yet... Anyway, if the radar based systems are actually terrible in practice it sure is extremely convenient timing that they discovered that right when the parts became too difficult to source, and not a moment before. YOLOsubmarine fucked around with this message at 04:25 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 04:22
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I'm not a big expert on this stuff but it's still amazing that giant computers still have difficulty doing things that animals with small brains can do. But humans are pretty nifty but we also have many faults. I want the best of both worlds, dang it.
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May 31, 2021 04:26
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Charles posted:I'm not a big expert on this stuff but it's still amazing that giant computers still have difficulty doing things that animals with small brains can do. Or a wall vs a car lane.
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May 31, 2021 04:31
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Qwijib0 posted:I have no faith in the detection capabilities of a camera the quality of which is in a model 3/y as a single sensory input based on what the dashcam puts to disk. Think of every situation you've been in where you're using context clues or driving in a more defensive manner because of sunlight or rain or fog or whatever.
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May 31, 2021 04:40
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I went to valley fair mall in San Jose today, there are stores for both Polestar and Lucid there! They even had a Polestar 1 on display, with flowers flowing out of it.  I didn't spend too long at the Lucid shop, I am pretty sure poors of my caliber are not allowed to so much as approach a car that expensive. (I joke, but they did actually specify no touching the Air on display)
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May 31, 2021 04:45
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I saw they're opening a Lucid store(?) at the old Microsoft store near me. I couldn't tell if it was open yet. Tesla Bjorn seemed to think they wouldn't hit 517 miles, but 460 was his guess based on the given battery size.
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May 31, 2021 05:17
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BIG DRYWALL MAN posted:Its a situation that is so outlandish and not inline with history, i.e. what if Russia didnt invade Poland, what if hitler was also black and gay, etc. Though thinking about it more, it wouldnt be out of line for Tesla to pull something like that. Tesla is going to make Hitler black and gay? Man, i get all the hottest tips from this thread!
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May 31, 2021 05:29
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Ummmm...... of all the things I was expecting to read here today gay black Hitler was not one of them
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May 31, 2021 05:41
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I'm not offended or anything, just still confused at what they find unlikely to happen. Tesla to go back and disable radar on already equipped cars? That doesn't seem that unlikely, given that they've throttled supercharging on older cars.
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May 31, 2021 05:47
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Tesla could falsify telemetry to blame radar for accidents and I wouldn't be surprised.
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May 31, 2021 05:50
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Charles posted:I'm not a big expert on this stuff but it's still amazing that giant computers still have difficulty doing things that animals with small brains can do. But humans are pretty nifty but we also have many faults. I want the best of both worlds, dang it. Yeah, this. Throughout all of computer history, at least the electronic computer part of it post WW2, scientists and visionaries have dreamed about replicating the human brain in one way or another, making it do things that we think of as very human such as seeing, listening, talking and learning. And yet the biggest leaps in technology, the things which have enabled us to do stuff in new ways, have been computers doing things we think of as anti-human and machine-like, measuring things exactly, fast calculations with huge inputs etc. It's the boring stuff, the basic engineering that was obvious once Turing and Dijkstra etc had invented the algorithms we use. And it's that stuff I think will be the stuff that gets us Level 4 self driving on major roads, radar, vehicle to vehicle comms ("I'm braking suddenly!"), road to vehicle comms ("speed reduction in 1 km, traffic ahead") and so on. The challenge will be figuring out how to get everybody to agree on a standard and how to prevent hackers from loving with it.
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May 31, 2021 06:54
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I definitely think radar is a trash sensor. I have two eyeballs! That's all I need to see things! If radar was so great god would have made humans with a 7th radar sense. Humans have been driving around with their 20/20 eyesight since forever and NOTHING BAD has ever happened! All of those millions of cars out there with radar only cruise control systems are basically lying to us every day by not just crashing all the time in all kinds of inclement weather because everyone knows that vision neural net is the best method of not smashing n' crashing. It's obvious to everyone. Same thing with the lumbar. Why would a passenger want the same comfort controls as a driver? Passengers should be lucky to be able to make seats go forward and back, they don't need any other kind of adjustment. Millions of other cars have been doing that WRONG! A waste really, an offense to mother earth when you think about it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) particle9 fucked around with this message at 08:12 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 07:19
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keseph posted:The nugget of truth in the bullshit is that our entire road infrastructure is built on visible light, not IR or Radar or LIDAR or anything else. No other input is required in principle to match what an attentive human can do, it's just a problem of effectively processing that input -- which we haven't solved yet and there are reasonable arguments to be made that it could be anywhere from 1 year to 100 years away. Radar or LIDAR can effect some shortcuts to detect e.g. relative velocity while video processing tech is struggling with that level of nuance over a series of frames, but there was always going to be a point where the accuracy of the two systems equalized and a switchover is warranted; I would be quite shocked if the camera-only system had gotten that far, but for all I know the radar one is actually really bad and we just don't hear about the 99% of the time that it's ineffective. I would love to see a trove of public data about it but Waymo and Tesla are unlikely to open source their systems any time soon, and that means anyone arguing about it is subconsciously pulling accuracy numbers out of their rear end when forming their opinions about it. Nobody actually knows if the end result is more or less likely to result in a preventable accident or affect the severity of one, and I can respect if someone is annoyed enough at the change being imposed without public data behind it to go with a different mfr instead, but I can't think of any other manufacturer that I would expect to actually release numbers for how accurate the radar-based AEB is in the first place. How well do you think you'll drive if your eyes are replaced with SD webcams and your brain with a GTX 1060?
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May 31, 2021 08:18
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Calm down. I said I wanted the best of both worlds. The things our brains are good + the things computers are good at, without the faults of either. This is getting off topic though really, sorry.
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May 31, 2021 08:18
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YOLOsubmarine posted:save money on relatively inexpensive sensors by simply replicating human cognition is so Silicon Valley broke brained that I’m astounded that people take it seriously Tesla has literally already done this with the automatic wipers. Instead of using a cheap, widely available rain sensor, they decided it would be better to program the AI to detect rain on the windshield using vision. It was absolutely terrible for about a year, now it's merely 'ok' and still fails on a number of occasions. Seph fucked around with this message at 14:59 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 14:47
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I got into the m3 yesterday when it’d been parked in the rain and the auto wipers promptly came on and slopped a bunch of water onto the inside of the drivers door.
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May 31, 2021 14:57
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Charles posted:I'm not a big expert on this stuff but it's still amazing that giant computers still have difficulty doing things that animals with small brains can do. But humans are pretty nifty but we also have many faults. I want the best of both worlds, dang it. Driving a car is not the 100 hours you spend behind the wheel before taking a test, the vast majority of it is things your brain has spent the last 16 years learning. It's also just as much social knowledge about how humans react to things as it is the mechanics of processing vision and translating that into hand and foot actions.
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May 31, 2021 15:11
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Yeep posted:Driving a car is not the 100 hours you spend behind the wheel before taking a test, the vast majority of it is things your brain has spent the last 16 years learning. It's also just as much social knowledge about how humans react to things as it is the mechanics of processing vision and translating that into hand and foot actions. Also, our brains have been evolving for millions of years to be able to accurately detect movement and analyze spatial positioning. Frankly it's amazing that machine learning has come as far as it has in only a few decades.
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May 31, 2021 15:30
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I've been trying to spot F150s on the road. The F150 is a big rutting vehicle. I thought it was the small one, but I guess my sense of scale is off, having owned a ½ ton pickup.
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May 31, 2021 15:35
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cruft posted:I've been trying to spot F150s on the road. Your scale might not be off if your “sense” of what a pickup truck looks like was forged 20 years ago like mine was. My father’s toyota tacoma 2004 will always be what i think a pickup should be sized as.
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May 31, 2021 15:44
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It seems like the new Rangers are even a little bigger than what I remember F150s to be.
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May 31, 2021 16:18
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The Maverick is coming out in a few weeks and is gonna be smaller but somehow still big 
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May 31, 2021 16:21
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Seph posted:Also, our brains have been evolving for millions of years to be able to accurately detect movement and analyze spatial positioning. Frankly it's amazing that machine learning has come as far as it has in only a few decades. Remember everyone failing the DARPA challenge of driving through a desert? Even basic machine vision was a pipedream until deep learning took off, so as much as I poo poo on Tesla for releasing half-baked software, it's still very impressive how much of it works.
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May 31, 2021 16:35
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Subaru does (and has been doing for 5 years) longitudinal ACC + AEB with vision only. My outback with eyesight did fine but it liked to brake really late when the sun was low.
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May 31, 2021 17:47
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Shamino posted:Subaru does (and has been doing for 5 years) longitudinal ACC + AEB with vision only. My outback with eyesight did fine but it liked to brake really late when the sun was low. It also likes to hit the brakes hard when you're starting to overtake a semi on a left-curving stretch of interstate.
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May 31, 2021 18:02
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I have a 2020 Impreza and I wish the lane keep worked well. Everything else is good but it can turn off in heavy rain and stuff. I hear they're adding Lidar to future Subarus. The more data at your disposal, the better, IMO, if being used properly.
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May 31, 2021 18:26
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Charles posted:I have a 2020 Impreza and I wish the lane keep worked well. Everything else is good but it can turn off in heavy rain and stuff. I hear they're adding Lidar to future Subarus. The more data at your disposal, the better, IMO, if being used properly. Wait, is it actually lidar as opposed to radar? If the problem is keeping things working in bad weather, lidar (which can also be compromised by rain and fog) wouldn't offer as much of an improvement as radar. Also I've just noticed that both the electric F150 and the Mustang Mach-E will offer something called Blue Cruise, which appears to be Ford's answer to Supercruise (and works in pretty much the same manner: hands-free driving, but only on select pre-mapped highways, and there's a camera pointed at your face to make sure you're watching the road). Which for me might make the Mach-E a tempting alternative to Tesla's Model Y, except for the "pre-mapped highways only" part.
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May 31, 2021 20:09
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Cockmaster posted:Wait, is it actually lidar as opposed to radar? If the problem is keeping things working in bad weather, lidar (which can also be compromised by rain and fog) wouldn't offer as much of an improvement as radar. Hmm I can only find it on this website, not any mainstream car news that I've ever heard of, so maybe maybe not? https://www.torquenews.com/1084/your-next-new-subaru-eyesight-will-have-high-tech-lidar Also seeing info about "Eyesight X" that uses 4 cameras. Need to find a reputable source!
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May 31, 2021 20:17
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Now the model Ys are shipping without lumbar support, in a few weeks they'll ship without back seats but with assurances the back seats will be restored through an OTA update.
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May 31, 2021 20:30
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MomJeans420 posted:Now the model Ys are shipping without lumbar support, in a few weeks they'll ship without back seats but with assurances the back seats will be restored through an OTA update. How to fix the back seats from being poorly secured: remove them
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May 31, 2021 20:31
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Powershift posted:The Maverick is coming out in a few weeks and is gonna be smaller but somehow still big Why oh why can they not make a standard cab version? Yes yes I know nobody will buy it but IT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
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May 31, 2021 22:02
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MomJeans420 posted:Now the model Ys are shipping without lumbar support, in a few weeks they'll ship without back seats but with assurances the back seats will be restored through an OTA update. BMW is doing the same thing due to the shortages but at least they offer a $250 credit for it. Tesla just finished increasing prices and their cars are losing features. This is not a good combination.
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May 31, 2021 22:15
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The Gunslinger posted:BMW is doing the same thing due to the shortages but at least they offer a $250 credit for it. Tesla just finished increasing prices and their cars are losing features. This is not a good combination. Every manufacturer is getting hosed but Tesla is the only one I’ve seen that’s claiming that actually removing features and capabilities is a good thing. YOLOsubmarine fucked around with this message at 23:15 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 22:20
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Every manufacturer is getting hosed but Tesla is the only one I’ve seen that’s claiming they actually removing the features and capabilities is a good thing. Gaslit by a gas-free automobile.
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May 31, 2021 22:36
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