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Opera will try to keep it too IIRC. I figure this will only become a major issue if/when Google cuts it out completely, ie. even for enterprise Chrome.
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May 28, 2021 21:03
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I wonder if the non-google chromium browsers are enough of a critical mass to keep a fork going? I mean, both Opera and MS used to develop their own entire engines; so in theory it should be doable. Of course, opera fired all those developers to save money shortly after switching, and I imagine MS repurposed theirs as well. Still.
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May 28, 2021 21:22
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Nalin posted:I mean, it still does have the best ad-blocking. uBlock Origin in Firefox can uncloak CNAME fuckery and it can selectively block inline scripts. Plus it runs part of the code in WebAssembly for extra speed. Klyith posted:Normal Chrome and Edge.
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May 28, 2021 21:33
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Computer viking posted:I wonder if the non-google chromium browsers are enough of a critical mass to keep a fork going? I mean, both Opera and MS used to develop their own entire engines; so in theory it should be doable. MS ain't gonna help in the first place. Between the rest of them, they might be able to keep it working -- I have to imagine that supporting an existing chunk of code is within their ability. But I guess it depends a lot on the details. BlankSystemDaemon posted:Let's not kid ourselves, they're going to deprecate it from everywhere, eventually. Dunno. I think Google cares more about chrome's market share than anything else. So I'm equally willing to bet that they leave webRequest available behind just enough rigamarole that only technically adept people are using unfettered Ublock. The normies get Adblock from the chrome store, and Adblock plays ball with acceptable ads for Google. That means Google keeps winning in the ad space, but doesn't risk a general sentiment of "chrome sucks now, switch to firefox" coming from the technorati.
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May 28, 2021 22:43
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Computer viking posted:I wonder if the non-google chromium browsers are enough of a critical mass to keep a fork going? I mean, both Opera and MS used to develop their own entire engines; so in theory it should be doable. I wondered why does no one seem to use the Firefox engine for other products? Is it too difficult to separate?
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May 29, 2021 00:14
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So if Chrome's becoming a pain in the rear end in regards to adblocking, I suppose running an adblocking proxy doesn't really work because of HTTPS?
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May 30, 2021 18:39
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Combat Pretzel posted:So if Chrome's becoming a pain in the rear end in regards to adblocking, I suppose running an adblocking proxy doesn't really work because of HTTPS? Not without MITM'ing yourself by installing a root cert, which is doable and IMO safe for technical people on a home network, but not for normal users or outside the home. There's also DNS-based adblocking, but that isn't as effective in the first place and also is harder to do with DNS over HTTPS. Again, you *can* but it's become a lot harder than the simple 1-2-3 of pihole. (I run a pihole-like DNS blocker on my router, mostly for adblocking my phone, and took the lazy solution of disabling DoH. But the router itself is using DNS over TLS to the outside world.) Really the best solution to adblocking is ublock, and switching browsers to Firefox or a chromium-based alternative is the best way to go.
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May 30, 2021 18:56
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Klyith posted:Not without MITM'ing yourself by installing a root cert, which is doable and IMO safe for technical people on a home network, but not for normal users or outside the home. Pihole can do DNS over https via Cloudflared, which oddly enough works with other than Cloudflare. It's pretty simple.
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May 31, 2021 04:51
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Remember when uBlock stopped working for a couple days once and we all had to experience the internet like normal people? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGklt4BSQ8
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May 31, 2021 06:18
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Saukkis posted:I wondered why does no one seem to use the Firefox engine for other products? Is it too difficult to separate? Probably widespread perception that Chrome's engine is the best and the only one worth using? I mean maybe the "difficult to separate" thing too, but I think it's mainly the initial buzz of Webkit followed by Google muscling it into dominance. MS/Apple in particular likely don't care about having a distinct engine from Chrome, they just want to be able to make a browser that works and has their own branding/ads on it.
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May 31, 2021 20:18
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Safari doesn't really use chromium, though. The family tree goes something like this: KDE develops KHTML to power their konqueror web browser. Apple grabs a copy and starts adding their own things to it, sporadically throwing a big blob of undocumented changes back to KDE. They eventually part ways. Apple renames their version WebKit - and for GPL license reasons, it remains open-source. Google needs a rendering engine for their new browser, and decides on WebKit. For a few years, google and apple manage to cooperate on WebKit - though each has their own javascript engine bolted to it. Eventually, they, too, disagreed over ... something (presumably the same "throw it over the fence" approach apple had with KDE), and from there on they have been independent trees with a common ancestor. Google's fork changed its name to Blink shortly after this happened. Chromium is Blink + V8, while Safari is WebKit 2 + JavaScriptCore (or whatever they call it these days). As for Firefox, my impression is that it has been hard to pull out just the rendering engine, which is why the projects you do see (like Tor browser) are more like Firefox with skins and extensions. At least on the Android side, they have worked on making a drop-in replacement for the chromium-based HTML view you can use in apps, which probably means some degree of modularization - but that's a recent development. Computer viking fucked around with this message at 21:51 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 21:44
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Google has clearly put in real work to make it easy to use Chromium in other projects.Computer viking posted:As for Firefox, my impression is that it has been hard to pull out just the rendering engine, which is why the projects you do see (like Tor browser) are more like Firefox with skins and extensions. Yeah, though TBQH the chrome-based browsers other than Edge aren't a whole lot more than chromium with skins and extensions and added doodads. I use Vivaldi as my secondary broswer, and I really don't think it would be impossible to do Vivaldi-fox with the same idea & result. It would probably be harder though, because I am pretty sure that Chromium's code base is far more modular and cleanly organized. Like, the simple fact that Chrome started well over a decade after Netscape, and that decade saw an absolutely huge evolution in software architecting & codebase management, gives them a massively better foundation. All that said, I think the reason that all the minor browsers built off of chrome is that Chrome is popular and firefox is not. Google spent a *lot* of effort convincing everyone that chrome is better & faster than firefox (and pre-quantum, it was very true). If you're an alt browser and you care about having a big enough userbase to support a company, it helps to draft off google's marketing as much as their codebase.
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Jun 1, 2021 02:23
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Since computer history is sort of a amateur hobby of mine, can I add to the above that KHTML itself was built on khtmlw?
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Jun 1, 2021 08:32
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Oh that's kind of neat.
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Jun 1, 2021 13:04
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They made it somehow look more poo poo. Congrats. I swear with every release those "new page - most visited sites" icons/identifiers get smaller. Ten releases ago it was a nice snapshot of the page. Now it's like a loving Windows 95 icon. Great.
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Jun 1, 2021 16:30
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Computer viking posted:I wonder if the non-google chromium browsers are enough of a critical mass to keep a fork going? I mean, both Opera and MS used to develop their own entire engines; so in theory it should be doable. MS currently maintain modified versions of Firefox, Chrome & WebKit, on at least Linux and Windows, to enable their Playright browser automation framework (fork of Puppeteer). They have plenty of engineers to do browser stuff. If they lose Edge market share due to poo poo adblocking, they will act. Edit: Chrime, Chome -> Chrome.
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Jun 1, 2021 16:48
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wooger posted:Edit: Chrime, Chome -> Chrome. No no, Chrime is right. Google, Microsoft, etc., all chriminals. 
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Jun 1, 2021 17:04
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Does anyone know how to turn off the translucent toolbar overlay in 89? It lights up every theme I have and ruins most of them aside from the default themes (which is likely intentional) I've turned off proton in about:config and while this unfucks most of the ui problems it doesn't fix this
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Jun 1, 2021 17:08
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Just offhand: I'm opted-in to "Sponsored Shortcuts" by default, and I can't get rid of the "list all tabs" button, though I can move it all the way to the left where I won't notice it as much.busalover posted:They made it somehow look more poo poo. Congrats. I swear with every release those "new page - most visited sites" icons/identifiers get smaller. Ten releases ago it was a nice snapshot of the page. Now it's like a loving Windows 95 icon. Great. yeah this. A site icon with the thickest possible border. To make "Sponsored Shortcuts" blend in better? "Recent Activity" still has the site snapshots, but was hidden by default (I had it showing before), so it's not like it isn't possible. (Sure, just change my settings Firefox, what the hell do I know?)
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Jun 1, 2021 17:23
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Pop-up menus are dark themed now, holy moley finally.
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Jun 1, 2021 18:38
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Has anyone made a convenient "Hide the 'new tab' option in tab context menus and the separator below it" user CSS already?
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Jun 2, 2021 01:05
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Personally I'm more excited for the speculated Mozilla keyboard that the Mozilla Proton Development Team might also be working on instead of this browser stuff.
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Jun 2, 2021 01:16
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So, is it just me, or does new Firefox stop inline videos? EDIT: Nevermind, that was actually really easy to fix. Just go to Privacy & Security and allow autoplay. Also, all the menus are now glaringly white for me, goddamn. Hopefully I can fix that with some CSS fuckery. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jun 2, 2021 |
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Jun 2, 2021 05:22
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Megillah Gorilla posted:So, is it just me, or does new Firefox stop inline videos? about :config, make ui.systemUsesDarkTheme 1
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Jun 2, 2021 05:27
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Weird, that doesn't bring up any hits. If I type in "dark" this is all I get: 
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Jun 2, 2021 05:48
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You have to create the key (as an integer)
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Jun 2, 2021 05:58
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Jun 2, 2021 06:06
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My fault for not being more clear. 
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Jun 2, 2021 06:13
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Nah, you are a godsend for me in this thread, mate. No matter how dumb my questions, you have always given great, clear advice. Seriously, thanks.
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Jun 2, 2021 06:46
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It's really some galaxy brain level poo poo that Mozilla has all the hidden options in about:config and then the even more hidden options that you have to create your own entry for.
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Jun 2, 2021 07:05
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I mean, you can just enable the dark theme in the theme menu.
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Jun 2, 2021 08:05
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I did, but things got all fucky and I think it was because I had my own font colour settings overriding the defaults. I've downloaded Firefox Color and there seems to be a rule where, if you have dark text on your tabs you can't have dark menus - don't even ask me why. Even a moderately dark grey colour font on my tabs turned the all the menus white* and you have no control over it. * except for the Open Applications Menu hamburger button which seems to have its own rules and you can have whatever colours you want with it. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Jun 2, 2021 |
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Jun 2, 2021 10:46
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So what's the easiest way to revert the line spacing between bookmarks in the bookmark menu having been blown the gently caress up in 89? I don't really care about the other changes, and actually prefer the 'normal density' setting to the compact one, but the bookmark menu being suddenly twice as tall is tripping me up.
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Jun 2, 2021 12:27
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 Wasn't it a universally understood "play" button before? Why has it to be this ugly text, telling you that you're actually watching the video. I mean come on.
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Jun 2, 2021 12:53
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So far this refresh seems to make things uglier (by a loving lot if you ask me, especially in the light theme) and the tabs in particular feel a lot more chunky for no reason. I gotta echo the above complaint too, why they hell did they remove the simple play icon/volume icon in lieu of a hover state text? The volume thing particularly bugs me because it's not really intuitively obvious that you click the favicon to mute the tab now. Almost like they're deliberately making that feature hard to find.
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Jun 2, 2021 13:44
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Mygna posted:So what's the easiest way to revert the line spacing between bookmarks in the bookmark menu having been blown the gently caress up in 89? I don't really care about the other changes, and actually prefer the 'normal density' setting to the compact one, but the bookmark menu being suddenly twice as tall is tripping me up. In about :config take a look at the toggles that come up for browser.proton. I'm not sure which one did it because I set 'em all to false, but my menus are normal sized.
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Jun 2, 2021 13:52
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Geemer posted:In about :config take a look at the toggles that come up for browser.proton. I'm not sure which one did it because I set 'em all to false, but my menus are normal sized. Thank you so much for this. There were three that were set to true that I blindly toggled without even reading the names of, and the browser is now back to its pre-embiggened state. Maybe it's my autism hating change, but this "progress for the sake of progress" mentality that so many of these developers have is driving me crazy.
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Jun 2, 2021 16:51
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Set browser.newtabpage.activity-stream.newNewtabExperience.enabled to false, if you want the old new-page look back.
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Jun 2, 2021 17:10
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Thanks for that. There are just so many cosmetic changes in this update which serve no purpose or are just terrible. At least I found I'm not the only person who doesn't like the menus taking up extra vertical space. So ugly. Setting browser.proton.enabled to false will turn off a tonne of the changes, too.
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Jun 2, 2021 17:25
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you can just use the compact tab layout and on version 90 it looks like i remember it being.
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Jun 2, 2021 17:33
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