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Oldstench posted:You have 5 SP. Can't you just buy a cantrip that it isn't immune to? no, only wolf. The only skill that could deal damage to this enemy is Void Spikes, a skill which costs 7 SP(and would be completely useless outside of killing this one specific thing, and would require me to let it take half my HP). i ended up opening the gamestate in a hex editor and increasing the enemy's damage so that it could actually kill my summons and then die to the backlash
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Jun 1, 2021 16:40
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cock hero flux posted:i ended up opening the gamestate in a hex editor and emergent gameplay!
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Jun 1, 2021 16:42
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SKULL.GIF posted:It's a Wolf-only archmage trial. Oh. Yeah - I'm really bouncing off this game. Haven't even looked at the trials. Wish I could refund it actually.
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Jun 1, 2021 16:57
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it's probably worth bringing up specific situations like that to the singular dev since there's possibly something that can be implemented to circumvent it. iirc the roadmap says the 1.0 release is intended for july and everything is on track for that, so there's likely something that can be done in time for that or a little beyond. also tentative mod support is planned, which should be cool.
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Jun 1, 2021 17:32
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Johnny Joestar posted:it's probably worth bringing up specific situations like that to the singular dev since there's possibly something that can be implemented to circumvent it. iirc the roadmap says the 1.0 release is intended for july and everything is on track for that, so there's likely something that can be done in time for that or a little beyond. also tentative mod support is planned, which should be cool. I think a pretty basic "portals open themselves after 100 turns" would take care of it.
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Jun 1, 2021 18:10
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I think it’s not quite fair to say the game has a huge problem when you’re doing an optional trial where you can only cast a single level 1 spell. DCSS is also quite difficult if you never use physical attacks and limit yourself to magic dart.
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Jun 1, 2021 18:39
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literally unplayable
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Jun 1, 2021 18:42
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it's worth bringing up weird edge cases so that they can be ironed out given how much the game relies on player strategy, and it can kinda suck when bizarre occurrences lead to frustrating stalemates, but beyond that the game is definitely way nicer than most other roguelikes which will just kind of kick you in the groin with something you had no way of dealing with or even knowing would happen i also have flashbacks to, like, dungeons of dredmor where the actual final boss was basically just outright unbeatable for a decent chunk of playstyles unless you stockpiled a shitload of projectiles to spam at him and hope it was enough to win. absolutely awful way to cap off what was otherwise a fairly solid game.
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Jun 1, 2021 18:48
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Yeah, Rift Wizard does offer you a surprising amount of versatility in the ability to look at 2-4 rifts and decide which level you want to go to next. You can generally see the level that hard counters your build and simply just...not go there. Much nicer than a lot of roguelikes that can teleport you into a nigh-unwinnable situation very suddenly. Granted, that doesn't help if every level counters your build in some way or another, in which case you'd best be looking for ways to diversify. And I do agree that there should be something in the case of a stalemate like this. If not simply opening the rifts for holding out long enough, maybe some style of sudden death mode?
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Jun 1, 2021 18:55
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i know that further balance stuff is apparently on the docket in general, so it'd be neat to maybe hear about changes to somewhat guarantee that you won't run into a situation of all your rifts leading to enemy spreads with basically identical resistances on the rare off-chance that happens. it's definitely worth diversifying your damage types using the multitude of options for that, no matter the case, though.
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Jun 1, 2021 18:58
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“Sudden Death” should just be that strict immunities slightly degrade after a certain amount of time. If you can kill an enemy that’s 99.8% immune to your chosen element, more power to you.
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Jun 1, 2021 19:01
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Any chat in the thread about Griftlands? Just stumbled on it and it looks like it's up my alley. Happy to wander to a group of pages if it's already been discussed
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Jun 1, 2021 19:07
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There's a thread for Griftlands but it's not really active. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3895261 Love that game though, thanks for reminding me that it officially launched today! https://store.steampowered.com/app/601840/Griftlands/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufl14_Ne5Lg
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Jun 1, 2021 19:25
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Samopsa posted:There's a thread for Griftlands but it's not really active. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3895261 I just bought it for 7€ in EGS. Thanks Tim!
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Jun 1, 2021 19:48
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nrook posted:I think it’s not quite fair to say the game has a huge problem when you’re doing an optional trial where you can only cast a single level 1 spell. It's not limited to trials it's just less game-ending outside of trials. You get a hard limited amount of SP over the course of the game. In order to win you need to use that SP in order to build an offensive combo that will clear maps for you, and on spells and skills that provide you with defensive utility. You do not, generally, have much, if any, SP to spare. In that screenshot I'm on the very last level before the boss which means I have nearly all the SP I am ever to going to have. I pick up one more when I enter the boss arena and spend it on Purestrike, a skill that I needed to beat the boss(which I did, with 13 hp and no health or mana potions remaining). Over the course of a run in which I was forced to play with no utility spells whatsoever, I ended up with exactly 0 SP left over after getting what I needed to beat the boss, and that was after very carefully making use of Magic Circles to save SP. Outside of a trial, I could have used that SP to pick up a level 1 cantrip in order to kill that thing, but then I would have been permanently weakened and would have lost to the boss. Weak enemies that you simply can't kill because they have 100% resistance to all of your abilities aren't good game design. It's not good to force the player to waste a very limited resource to kill an enemy which is literally harmless. With the way the game works, offensive spells without upgrades are completely useless in later levels except for finishing off singular weak enemies, and if you waste SP on them instead of your offensive combo and utilities then they won't be strong enough to beat the boss. Levying an SP and consumable tax on the player in this way is infuriating for them. The player should be forced to spend consumables to deal with enemies that are dangerous, not enemies which are harmless but unkillable. The player should be forced to spend SP on things they would rather not in order to protect themselves or because of poor choices they've made, not because they run into an arbitrary roadblock. I lost a previous wolf run to a slime level that I let get out of control. I didn't complain about it because it was my fault: I made bad decisions and wasn't aggressive enough in dealing with them, and as a result I lost the game. This, though, was unavoidable: I had only one other level choice which was even worse because an enemy with similar immunities was a regular spawn. It was a hard roadblock and, trial or no, would have been game-ending in a way that was entirely unsatisfying and undeserved.
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Jun 1, 2021 19:53
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Honestly Rift Wizard having a cool spell building system sounded neat, but setting it up so you have one combo you always use sounds really dull. A system like that should be leveraged so you can do a bunch of different stupid wizard tricks and really enjoy the design space, not press the same key sequence until you win or die
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Jun 1, 2021 20:11
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:Honestly Rift Wizard having a cool spell building system sounded neat, but setting it up so you have one combo you always use sounds really dull. A system like that should be leveraged so you can do a bunch of different stupid wizard tricks and really enjoy the design space, not press the same key sequence until you win or die It's a side effect of some design decisions which are good or okay in a vacuum. Making it so that you can take a low level spell and upgrade it over the course of the game so that it stays useful is good. Making a system based heavily around synergy and creating cool combos is good. Making a game which is focused and linear and about managing scarce resources is fine. Making a game which encourages aggression and offensive play and punishes being overly slow or cautious is fine. the combination of these things, though, is that you don't have enough resources to play around and try out new things, you have to build a viable combo in the first few levels or die and you have to keep pouring resources into it or it stops working
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Jun 1, 2021 20:19
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:Honestly Rift Wizard having a cool spell building system sounded neat, but setting it up so you have one combo you always use sounds really dull. A system like that should be leveraged so you can do a bunch of different stupid wizard tricks and really enjoy the design space, not press the same key sequence until you win or die cock hero flux posted:It's a side effect of some design decisions which are good or okay in a vacuum. Upgrading spells should be capped or have ever-decreasing-benefits, imo. Once you do that, the game would allow the player to have a bigger 'palette' of spells to use, and there would be less need to increase the difficulty on the late game so much, which means less frustrating enemies with 2 or 3 immunities that it seems the dev felt obligated to put because under the old system he knew players would have 2-3 mega murder spells.
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Jun 1, 2021 20:39
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I like Rift Wizard's concept but I hope they back off on the immunities and just let players enjoy the game. Maybe they could do something like StS ascensions, where you can mess around on lower difficulties and focus on The Correct Playstyle on the higher ones.
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Jun 1, 2021 20:55
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Samopsa posted:There's a thread for Griftlands but it's not really active. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3895261 Ooooh, I really love Griftlands. I haven't been playing for a while because I wanted to wait until Smith's story was fully implemented. Thanks for the notice!
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Jun 1, 2021 21:15
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Dachshundofdoom posted:I like Rift Wizard's concept but I hope they back off on the immunities and just let players enjoy the game. Maybe they could do something like StS ascensions, where you can mess around on lower difficulties and focus on The Correct Playstyle on the higher ones. you can mess around on normal difficulty now, it's a significantly easier game than StS
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Jun 1, 2021 21:16
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Turin Turambar posted:Upgrading spells should be capped or have ever-decreasing-benefits, imo. Once you do that, the game would allow the player to have a bigger 'palette' of spells to use, and there would be less need to increase the difficulty on the late game so much, which means less frustrating enemies with 2 or 3 immunities that it seems the dev felt obligated to put because under the old system he knew players would have 2-3 mega murder spells. Most spells only have around 7-12 SP worth of upgrades...
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Jun 1, 2021 21:30
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Count Uvula posted:Most spells only have around 7-12 SP worth of upgrades... also a lot of spells have multiple upgrades that are mutually exclusive and you can only pick one of them, lmao
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Jun 1, 2021 21:36
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SKULL.GIF posted:I do think the criticism that many of the spells to be overpriced to be spot on though. Blue Lion and Flock of Eagles definitely don't feel like they should be Level 5 spells, and Plague of Filth does very little for a level 3 spell. 
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Jun 1, 2021 21:58
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So anyone up for June nethack? https://junethack.net/
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Jun 1, 2021 22:12
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:Honestly Rift Wizard having a cool spell building system sounded neat, but setting it up so you have one combo you always use sounds really dull. A system like that should be leveraged so you can do a bunch of different stupid wizard tricks and really enjoy the design space, not press the same key sequence until you win or die Not sure what you mean? Are you saying that you have to decide your combo floor 1 and have no room for adapatation later? Or that there aren't enough viable builds? Or that the spells you use floor 1-10 will always be among the main spells you use floor 20-25? Because all of these statements are things I disagree with (I don't think they're true)...
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Jun 1, 2021 22:15
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Rascyc posted:I have no real response to your criticism but it did remind me of this screenshot I saw on the discord and thought it was funny I gotta try this out.
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Jun 1, 2021 22:15
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Rascyc posted:I have no real response to your criticism but it did remind me of this screenshot I saw on the discord and thought it was funny it's beautiful Fire claw + Starfire to activate Cracklevoid on minion physical damage is some brain genius poo poo and definitely something to keep in mind for the Wolfer trial. They still lost but I guess that's the price of beauty, they probably could have easily won if they were willing to take a second spell.
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Jun 1, 2021 22:15
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I like how half the people complaining about Rift Wizard's design either mention or imply that they haven't bought or played the game yet. You're given 76 skill points and they aren't really tight past the early game so you're meant to pick up spells to round out your character. If you put all of your eggs into one basket then you're accepting the risk of getting wiped out by a bad bounce. The game isn't forcing you play that way, in fact it tries to strongly encourage you not to play that way through the shrines and enemy resistances. It's still in early access so there's bound to be tweaks and balance improvements but I think fundamentally it's a unique and interesting system which works well.
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Jun 1, 2021 22:45
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Pirate Prentice posted:You're given 76 skill points and they aren't really tight past the early game so you're meant to pick up spells to round out your character. If you put all of your eggs into one basket then you're accepting the risk of getting wiped out by a bad bounce. The game isn't forcing you play that way, in fact it tries to strongly encourage you not to play that way through the shrines and enemy resistances. Yeah somewhat ironic given the complaints in this thread but my big complaint is a hole in the enemy immunities, Twilight Gaze exists and does a whole -100% resistance to dark and holy. It means dark and holy damage are the only two damage types where you can completely ignore enemy resistances with the single caveat that it doesn't work efficiently in maze levels.
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Jun 1, 2021 22:55
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Count Uvula posted:Yeah somewhat ironic given the complaints in this thread but my big complaint is a hole in the enemy immunities, Twilight Gaze exists and does a whole -100% resistance to dark and holy. It means dark and holy damage are the only two damage types where you can completely ignore enemy resistances with the single caveat that it doesn't work efficiently in maze levels. you don't even need twilight gaze for holy, very few things are immune to it and as far as I can tell, nothing is immune to both Lightning and Holy, so Lightning Bolt will carry you through the entire game. On the subject, though, I wouldn't be nearly as annoyed by all of the 100% immunities if the various "all X damage also does Y damage" things actually let you get more damage type coverage. They don't because if the target has 100% immunity to the primary damage type then they aren't considered to have taken any damage at all. So all of those skills and shrine affects don't give you any extra coverage. You can make it so that a fire spell is literally dealing 4 different damage types but against a Fire immune enemy it won't do anything. I don't even know if this is intentional. It seems like it might not be because there's a shrine that seems to specifically exist to let fire spells deal with fire immune enemies by redealing all fire damage as ice damage on fire type enemies, but it's basically useless because it still can't pierce fire immunity. Same with that one skill that makes it so that any enemy that takes fire damage loses 10% fire resistance.
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Jun 1, 2021 23:21
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Count Uvula posted:Yeah somewhat ironic given the complaints in this thread but my big complaint is a hole in the enemy immunities, Twilight Gaze exists and does a whole -100% resistance to dark and holy. It means dark and holy damage are the only two damage types where you can completely ignore enemy resistances with the single caveat that it doesn't work efficiently in maze levels. Yeah I agree that spell is too powerful and should be tuned down. It should probably be changed from LOS to a radius or something like that because the current synergy with death cleave in the open areas is way too much.
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Jun 1, 2021 23:21
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It seems like just replacing immunity with 99% resistance would fix a large part of these frustrations. Since the dev has mentioned modding support in the future, I wonder if that would actually be a pretty easy tweak to do even now?
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Jun 1, 2021 23:48
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Arzaac posted:Yeah, Rift Wizard does offer you a surprising amount of versatility in the ability to look at 2-4 rifts and decide which level you want to go to next.
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Jun 2, 2021 00:19
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I've beaten Rift Wizard 3 times now, and it's really a fun game. Sure, there are some negatives about it (I gave up on one game on Realm 24 because I'd have probably had to smash the pass turn button over 1000 times for my summons to eventually clear the level of all the summoners), and there are definitely some OP strats, but some of the fun is trying to make up new cool builds. I'm currently trying to make Eye spells work as a main form of offense (although I'm finding I need to supplement them with a targeted spell), and I really want to try and find out how to break Word spells. I'm playing it less now, but I've put in over 20 hours to the game, and it's definitely worth the money.
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Jun 2, 2021 00:40
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PotatoManJack posted:and I really want to try and find out how to break Word spells. I'm thinking something like Nightmare Aura + Arcane Accounting + Soul Harvest.
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Jun 2, 2021 01:03
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Arrrgh I almost had a really good Nightmare Aura + Plague of Filth run going but stupidly decided to invest in another upgrade instead of taking Underworld Passage. Turns out even a steady stream of shielded vermin can't ward off Blood Bears long enough before they get overwhelmed.
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Jun 2, 2021 01:48
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Pharnakes posted:It seems like just replacing immunity with 99% resistance would fix a large part of these frustrations.
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Jun 2, 2021 02:01
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Rascyc posted:I have no real response to your criticism but it did remind me of this screenshot I saw on the discord and thought it was funny as a plague of filth liker, i do appreciate going "wolfer achievement, but what if St Patrick just upended his entire bag of collected snakes and frogs" especially the dedication to seek out two skill orbs on the first level so you don't have to spend one on death bolt or whatever lol unfortunately it apparently failed, but plague of filth with one of the better shrines (fire claws actually isn't very good for it, i'm a fan of the "things happen on death" because it means every last one of your individually worthless summons get value, but there's an argument to be made for poison aura) and Soul Harvest can solo an awful lot of the midgame... ...eventually edit: part of the problem with plague of filth, and also why it is Very Good, is that the two most important skills for it (icy vengeance, which makes your infinite frogs and snakes cause ice damage when they are inevitably one-shot, and soul harvest, which recharges your incredibly efficient channeled summoning of infinite frogs and snakes) also synergize very well with Death Bolt Death Cleave, aka one of the 2-3 most dominant degenerate strategies in a game about degenerate strategies when i run plague of filth i routinely win large parts of multiple levels with the world's most passive moba: spew a bunch of minions towards the front lines, move forward, maybe pick off a couple Problems, spew more minions Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jun 2, 2021 |
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Jun 2, 2021 02:05
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GreyjoyBastard posted:unfortunately it apparently failed, but plague of filth with one of the better shrines (fire claws actually isn't very good for it, i'm a fan of the "things happen on death" because it means every last one of your individually worthless summons get value, but there's an argument to be made for poison aura) and Soul Harvest can solo an awful lot of the midgame... ...eventually Arch Conjurer + Nature Lord + Minion Damage upgrade does mean that each summon has like +20 to their base attack, tho.
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Jun 2, 2021 02:16
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