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Xelkelvos posted:One other thing to consider is that all series tend to have general downwards trends in ratings and whatever internal metrics they have for determining what does and doesn't get renewed tends to coincide with the ratings declines that are reached by around season 3. A good example of this is from The Simpsons—you'd think that one of the most influential television series of all time would have have had steady ratings, but nope—the most watched episode of the series was the season 2 opener, "Bart Gets an F," and nothing afterwards even came close.
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May 29, 2021 20:40
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Acebuckeye13 posted:A good example of this is from The Simpsons—you'd think that one of the most influential television series of all time would have have had steady ratings, but nope—the most watched episode of the series was the season 2 opener, "Bart Gets an F," and nothing afterwards even came close. Seems kinda logical to me. If I watch a show I am less likely to see it if I haven't watched the previous ones, even if they are only loosely connected. Obviously, a lot of people stop at some point so the viewership bleeds out.
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May 29, 2021 20:44
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cant cook creole bream posted:Seems kinda logical to me. If I watch a show I am less likely to see it if I haven't watched the previous ones, even if they are only loosely connected. Obviously, a lot of people stop at some point so the viewership bleeds out. And that's one of the issues with serialized series versus episodic ones and why the latter tend to get renewed more often than the former despite the former having a more vocal and devoted fanbase.
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May 29, 2021 21:59
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FWIW re: Amphibia merchandising, Matt had this to say a few days ago: https://twitter.com/Radrappy/status/1397207812728573963 https://twitter.com/Radrappy/status/1397209457470414851 Considering Disney also did a really awful Gravity Falls book a while ago without the input of Alex Hirsch (and literally included a screenshot of an episode with the QuickTime player UI clearly visible somehow), I'm inclined to say the real answer is that Disney as a whole doesn't really care all that much about anything TVA puts out.
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May 29, 2021 23:18
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Disney's never really cared much about their TV offerings. No merch, super obscure tie-ins, lucky if you get reruns.
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May 30, 2021 07:12
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Disney's never really cared much about their TV offerings. No merch, super obscure tie-ins, lucky if you get reruns. I counter with Phineas and Ferb
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May 30, 2021 07:16
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I remember reading once that you should ask Disney store employees for <show> merch, because apparently that sort of request goes back up the chain and gets reported on. That said, I tried asking for Gravity Falls merch in the Disney Store in London when the show was still airing and got the reply ‘I don’t think that’s a Disney show’.
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May 30, 2021 10:40
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The_Doctor posted:I remember reading once that you should ask Disney store employees for <show> merch, because apparently that sort of request goes back up the chain and gets reported on. That said, I tried asking for Gravity Falls merch in the Disney Store in London when the show was still airing and got the reply ‘I don’t think that’s a Disney show’. That kind of thing isn't a good sign, especially in the internet days. Like when Nintendo supposedly only took feedback from Club Nintendo reviews for things like Paper Mario, when you're limiting your feedback so much you're not going to get anything meaningfully useful.
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May 30, 2021 15:14
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The_Doctor posted:Frog Soos. I was gonna say that I figured Soos counts enough for any future show.
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May 30, 2021 18:09
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Gaz-L posted:I was gonna say that I figured Soos counts enough for any future show. Isn't Soos actually based on one of Hirsch's IRL friends, though? Clearly his insert is Hooty.
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May 30, 2021 23:38
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Yvonmukluk posted:Isn't Soos actually based on one of Hirsch's IRL friends, though? Yup! https://twitter.com/_alexhirsch/status/371810877617369089
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May 31, 2021 01:06
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Xelkelvos posted:I counter with Phineas and Ferb Did that have a lot of merch? I feel like the only thing I've seen from that is like a cheap licensed video game and some Funko pops (but that hardly counts since literally everything has a drat Funko pop) TwoPair fucked around with this message at 01:32 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 01:28
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There's just so much I don't understand about the industry, aside from a major component of capricious executives. From how many shows in the 80s that were made after the toyline and how some shows got cancelled because they weren't merchandisable, I kinda thought that would be a more planned kinda thing. Probably other networks do it different because they don't view television as some disposable pointless endeavor in the scheme of the whole company. Which I still don't really understand how the Disney Channel makes money without ads, the thing that funds television, but maybe Disney Plus will change things now that they're taking another business's television model and adding extra moneymaking features on top of it.
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May 31, 2021 01:58
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SlothfulCobra posted:There's just so much I don't understand about the industry, aside from a major component of capricious executives. From how many shows in the 80s that were made after the toyline and how some shows got cancelled because they weren't merchandisable, I kinda thought that would be a more planned kinda thing. Probably other networks do it different because they don't view television as some disposable pointless endeavor in the scheme of the whole company. The Disney Channel is a cable channel, like HBO or ESPN, and Disney makes money by having people subscribe to the channel through cable packages. Shows like Amphibia and Owl House exist, in effect, to promote the channel and encourage people to include it in their cable subscriptions. The reason why it's hard to get Disney to merchandise anything outside of Marvel or Star Wars is that Disney is so goddamn big that it ends up competing against itself. They simply don't have any incentive to create a robust array of merchandise for their shows because many executives believe that any sale of, say, a Sprig plush or a Hooty shirt would cannibalize sales from BB-8 toys and Hulk paraphernalia. When a company owns so many ~brands~ there's simply diminishing returns from trying to merchandise on all of them, and Disney instead chooses to focus on a handful of core brands that they know will sell. it's a big problem, and it's only going to get bigger as disney continues to expand and monopolize the entertainment industry. The only hope we have is that Disney ultimately gets broken up into smaller companies that actually have to compete against each other, but good luck on that happening anytime soon.
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May 31, 2021 02:44
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TwoPair posted:Did that have a lot of merch? I feel like the only thing I've seen from that is like a cheap licensed video game and some Funko pops (but that hardly counts since literally everything has a drat Funko pop) I remember seeing a lot of Perry stuff in the kids sections. Things like shirts and maybe backpacks. https://phineasandferb.fandom.com/wiki/Phineas_and_Ferb_Wiki:Merchandise_Portal exists which is a helluva thing to exist but there's a bunch of stuff apparently and Disney still sells P&F stuff despite it being canceled. It was a very popular series. Same as the Loud House is now for Nickelodeon Acebuckeye13 posted:The reason why it's hard to get Disney to merchandise anything outside of Marvel or Star Wars is that Disney is so goddamn big that it ends up competing against itself. They simply don't have any incentive to create a robust array of merchandise for their shows because many executives believe that any sale of, say, a Sprig plush or a Hooty shirt would cannibalize sales from BB-8 toys and Hulk paraphernalia. When a company owns so many ~brands~ there's simply diminishing returns from trying to merchandise on all of them, and Disney instead chooses to focus on a handful of core brands that they know will sell. This is sorta half true. Programming isn't gonna set up two big premiers in the same time slot that target the same demos if it has the option of staggering them. Film exists in the same way where tow big premiers under the same company aren't gonna come out in the same or even neighboring weekends unless they're targeting completely different audiences and there's not of chance of one significantly affecting the other. But merchandising is a totally different thing since there's not really a time or urgency factor. While there is always some worry about competing against itself, that's a matter at the actual brand management level. Not at the org layers above them who might decide on cross promotion methods since there's demographic overlap. The reason a Sprig plush might not come out isn't because it'd compete against itself (this doesn't really make sense as an argument because Disney gets the money either way) is because if it's a decision to manufacture and retail 100,000 of Sprig plsuhes versus, say, 100,000 Clink plushes, one of those products is already tied into a preexisting brand with a successful track history and the other is effectively an unknown so from a numbers perspective, it's a better "gamble" to produce and sell the surer thing than gamble on the more unsure thing. It is a bit of a "rich get richer" thing as those that already have any sort of track record of success will be more likely to get another chance and potentially gain more successes under its belt while those that haven't proven themselves wont get that chance unless there's other things going for it that can mitigate the perceived risks. Hiring is a big example where, in most cases absent any other deciding factors, an employer would take a person with a relevant employment history and no schooling over someone fresh out of school but no experience. Xelkelvos fucked around with this message at 03:35 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 03:17
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That is a thing I was thinking of the other day when Amazon bought MGM and people were buzzing about a possible new Stargate. As big companies katamari up IPs, there's a lot of stuff that can be buried beneath more popular properties. Some companies actually have a whole corporate environment where separate divisions get competitive against eachother and end up competing more directly, which has its ups and downs. Cartoon Network was really resentful of DC Nation, Babylon 5 was the product of a channel that failed, and the execs at the rest of the company didn't care for it.Xelkelvos posted:I remember seeing a lot of Perry stuff in the kids sections. Things like shirts and maybe backpacks. Phineas and Ferb bent and then broke the 3 season rule, and it's not exactly over now either. There was a movie in 2019 and there's talks about another one. I'm not sure how much of that is its own appeal/following and how much is the luck of getting past executive hurdles. I do like the show, but I'm surprised at how much success it's seen.
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May 31, 2021 05:50
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Watched the Amphibia season 2 finale. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but given how Anne used her powers and the magical multi-colored gems (Calamity Gems if you will since they're from the Calamity Box), do you think these are homages to Sonic the Hedgehog?
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May 31, 2021 06:00
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Xelkelvos posted:I remember seeing a lot of Perry stuff in the kids sections. Things like shirts and maybe backpacks. Plus there's something to be said for demographics. There's a lot of kids' shows that also appeal to adults like the ones in this thread but that's a tiny group compared to the tons of Marvel/Star Wars stuff out there that hits both kids and adults in drastically higher numbers. So yeah, vicious cycle goes on, small shows stay small, big brands get bigger.
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May 31, 2021 06:28
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SlothfulCobra posted:Phineas and Ferb bent and then broke the 3 season rule, and it's not exactly over now either. There was a movie in 2019 and there's talks about another one. I'm not sure how much of that is its own appeal/following and how much is the luck of getting past executive hurdles. I do like the show, but I'm surprised at how much success it's seen. Looking at the rating for P&F and it becomes really obvious as to why it was allowed to be kept along for so long. To compare it to another series that ran at around the same time, for 2012 there's The Legend of Korra. S3 of P&F was pulling in the same numbers as S1 of Korra and approximately matched or out performed in their respective timeslot. For a more "fair" competitor we can look at The Fairly Oddparents in 2010-2012 (which is probably much more in the same competitive demos than Korra) and based on the ratings posted they look to both be in the 4 million range which is probably more a testament to how much a behemoth Fairly Oddparents still was in their 7th season. Though come 2013, P&F began to outperform, though now at the 3 millions range. S2 of Korra for comparison performed worse than both, though at this point, that's more indicative of Korra's failure than of the successes of the other series.
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May 31, 2021 06:31
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Phineas and Ferb, if I remember correctly, had merchandise from the start, not just after it proved to be enduringly popular. For whatever that's worth.
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May 31, 2021 06:35
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P&F was a darling of Disney execs, I think. I recall after one of the first season episodes had a song, the suits requested that they put a song in every episode, and it worked out amazing.
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May 31, 2021 07:49
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Mraagvpeine posted:Watched the Amphibia season 2 finale. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but given how Anne used her powers and the magical multi-colored gems (Calamity Gems if you will since they're from the Calamity Box), do you think these are homages to Sonic the Hedgehog? Obviously Anne is Amphibia Thanos. She is inevitable. Also, what's up with the Gravity Falls focus on Disney XD lately? Is there some sequel/movie/new Alex Hirsch thing coming out soon?
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May 31, 2021 09:00
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Yvonmukluk posted:Isn't Soos actually based on one of Hirsch's IRL friends, though? I mean, if we're being very literal, Dipper and Mabel are explicitly based on him and his sister. Everyone posted:Also, what's up with the Gravity Falls focus on Disney XD lately? Is there some sequel/movie/new Alex Hirsch thing coming out soon? It's weird, they were doing these 'Disney characters do music videos' things a while back and it was mostly the current line up of shows and randomly one of Mabel doing a parody of Call Me Maybe. With new animation and Schall singing. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 15:10 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 15:08
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Only 8 months ago! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI2btzM13NM
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May 31, 2021 15:16
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I really don't think Disney really got over Gravity Falls ending on its own terms. Like a vast majority of Disney TV Animation's (non-preschool) output post GF ending feels like the execs went "okay, now how is this like Gravity Falls?" "Could you make it a bit more like Gravity Falls?" "Please, gently caress, we want a new Gravity Falls"
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May 31, 2021 15:22
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serves them right
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May 31, 2021 16:04
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I finally got around to watching Kipo, and it's pretty fantastic right from the first episode.
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Jun 1, 2021 23:10
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SlothfulCobra posted:I finally got around to watching Kipo, and it's pretty fantastic right from the first episode. I'm gonna rewatch that this weekend. Kipo's such a gorgeous show on the eyes.
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Jun 2, 2021 01:03
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here's a question for everyone: what's the absolute worst cartoon character catch phrase? i came across an episode of catdog (terrible show, btw), and i was reminded of Dog's horrendously obnoxious "wowie kaboodles", so my vote goes to that 
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Jun 2, 2021 04:30
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I've said "jiminiy jillikers" so many times the words have lost all meaning!
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Jun 2, 2021 04:47
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Yowza yowza babowza!
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Jun 2, 2021 05:29
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Y'all have never mega-watched Captain N, the Game Master... icus
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Jun 2, 2021 05:40
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Sockser posted:Yowza yowza babowza! I’ve heard of lame catchphrases, but this is ridiculous!
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Jun 2, 2021 07:24
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Sockser posted:Yowza yowza babowza! i thought this was mockery until i googled just to be on the safe side, and holy poo poo, how did i never see this? 
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Jun 2, 2021 07:41
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That's too much, man!
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Jun 2, 2021 08:54
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Mr Interweb posted:here's a question for everyone: what's the absolute worst cartoon character catch phrase? Woody Woodpecker’s laugh. It makes me want to kill for some reason.
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Jun 2, 2021 11:22
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Excuuuuuuuse me, princess!
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Jun 2, 2021 12:29
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Mr Interweb posted:here's a question for everyone: what's the absolute worst cartoon character catch phrase? Not a cartoon but "morphinominal" from Power Rangers was the lamest poo poo even as a kid when my threshold for lame poo poo was way lower.
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Jun 2, 2021 17:23
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https://mobile.twitter.com/_AlexHirsch/status/1400119682464555008 alex ain't fuckin around today
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Jun 2, 2021 19:56
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Mr Interweb posted:i thought this was mockery until i googled just to be on the safe side, and holy poo poo, how did i never see this? Yeah, I was surprised at how buried the Christmas special was on Netflix. Granted, it’s not anything groundbreaking, either, since it doesn’t really have any major insights into the S1 characters, and most of the humor is meta about how terrible Horsin’ Around actually was.
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Jun 2, 2021 20:19
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