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I don't know where you're getting some of those assumptions about the grasp of translators, since by and large the translaton professionals I've found absolutely have an extremely strong grasp on the relevant languages. Maybe if you're going off of like, fansub stuff? Just to throw out a couple of threads: https://twitter.com/katrinaltrnsl8r/status/1352312125570445317 https://twitter.com/SarahKTranslate/status/1397638297300529155
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Jun 2, 2021 19:26
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Armored Trooper Votoms is still an underrated franchise. It's still way harder to watch any of it than it ought to be. Not as hard as it used to be. It and most of the OVA's are on HiDive, and I've got a "complete" collection on Blu Ray. But Mellowlink is still missing. They must've lost the masters or something.
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Jun 2, 2021 19:29
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i miss fansubs
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Jun 2, 2021 19:32
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:I don't know where you're getting some of those assumptions about the grasp of translators, since by and large the translaton professionals I've found absolutely have an extremely strong grasp on the relevant languages. Maybe if you're going off of like, fansub stuff? I'm basing it off the fact that I've tried to translate a game myself in my spare time and it's hard enough with no pressure. If I had to do something like that by a short deadline and for bad pay like many people in the industry have to do I'd probably end up cutting corners. There are plenty of cases where getting an accurate translation that captures nuance might not be too bad, but also plenty of cases where you run into a lot of trouble. Doesn't matter if you're the best writer on Earth in Japanese and English, if you get a week to translate 500,000 words it's gonna suck. Tim Rogers talks about it here - lots of people think that Final Fantasy 7 has a bad translation because it's filled with typos and errors, but the translator (actually turns out it was one guy, Michael Baskett) had to do the entire game by himself under massive pressure, and he did the best he could: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZefYEaNUJ7w Casey Finnigan has issued a correction as of 20:34 on Jun 2, 2021 |
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Jun 2, 2021 19:38
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Mecha Gojira posted:Not as hard as it used to be. It and most of the OVA's are on HiDive, and I've got a "complete" collection on Blu Ray. From what I understand the masters got lost in an earthquake.
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Jun 2, 2021 19:40
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:I don't know where you're getting some of those assumptions about the grasp of translators, since by and large the translaton professionals I've found absolutely have an extremely strong grasp on the relevant languages. Maybe if you're going off of like, fansub stuff? it's not a question of whether or not they have a strong grasp of the language - to go into any career like that no doubt requires someone with fluency and the dexterity to decipher some of the tricky cultural differences or even those occasional concepts/words/terms/etc with no clear 1:1 translation. The translations themselves are often very good these days, at least compared to what things used to be like. it more often comes down how things are localized or edited - there are times when lines can come across as overly formal or even just plain stiff, despite the fact that there is clearly a set of emotions underlying dialogue, narration, etc. Capturing that emotion and intent can be difficult when things come across as being stilted Not everything can be Yakuza-levels of translating/localizing/editing/etc., but a little bit of adjustments here and there can do wonders to make things sound a bit more realistic or natural in English, imo
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Jun 2, 2021 19:43
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Anime Bernie Bro posted:i miss fansubs I don't, I remember when fansub groups could be jerks about releasing anime because they wanted to lord it over the masses
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Jun 2, 2021 21:25
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why do Old Goons still get insanely irrationally mad at the existence of anime. what is so broken in the gen xer brain that causes this
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Jun 2, 2021 23:09
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Judge Dredd Scott posted:why do Old Goons still get insanely irrationally mad at the existence of anime. what is so broken in the gen xer brain that causes this cultural insecurity and flashbacks to the era of japanese economic dominance
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Jun 2, 2021 23:09
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Anime Bernie Bro posted:cultural insecurity and flashbacks to the era of japanese economic dominance yeah i had assumed it was like 50~75% orientalism so that makes sense
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Jun 2, 2021 23:10
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Their first exposure to it was seeing a low-res hentai clip 25 years ago and never moved beyond that perception.
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Jun 2, 2021 23:11
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Judge Dredd Scott posted:why do Old Goons still get insanely irrationally mad at the existence of anime. what is so broken in the gen xer brain that causes this Didnt grow up with it and have the cynical streak from that life experience that it has to be for losers, because that was the omnipresent joke in 2004 when the forums were relevant, but now anybody under the age of 30 grew up with anime and like it and talk about it normally, and they havent experienced that so they only know the old joke.
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Jun 2, 2021 23:13
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Sharkopath posted:Didnt grow up with it and have the cynical streak from that life experience that it has to be for losers, because that was the omnipresent joke in 2004 when the forums were relevant, but now anybody under the age of 30 grew up with anime and like it and talk about it normally, and they havent experienced that so they only know the old joke. i made the mistake of reading the giant bomb thread in rgd and seeing people talk like the way they were was so confusing until i realized they were all Olds
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Jun 2, 2021 23:17
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As a translator--and this observation holds true for both fan translation and official translation--schedule pressure in terms of doing enough other projects to keep prestige up and mutually beneficial hanger-on bickering going/working enough to keep food on the table is a contributor, but the bigger problem is just the cadence rather than the schedule per se. Every few months you have to acquaint yourself with new groups of characters, don't necessarily have a good voice for them ready, may not have ever known or read that personality before, and your ability to work in your field of expertise is limited by not necessarily being able to put together a group for or not necessarily being in the approved contracting pool of a company that has x title. The biggest problem, though, is the other aspect of cadence. The reality is that being tapped to translate something you've already fully read in one form or another is an extremely lucky break rather than the default like in literary or film translation, and even in non-phone games you'd be in schedule hell if you put nothing down on paper until a playthrough is finished but you're not faced with "levels 1-6 are locked and shipping as soon as you're done with them, hope nothing you did to normalize a line out to fluent-sounding English conflicts with the villain's speech in level 24." So a lot of things that don't sound quite right slip through because you have to be extremely cautious where you add or remove detail (as a light example, I just submitted something with a vague and frustrating rather than inclusive singular "they" for a side character that was described only by job), along with the things that don't sound quite right which slip through because it's already weekly deadline and there's simply no time to flip through natively English novels or films with the same situation for inspiration. Sometimes there's at least a final review pass of a bigger chunk, but that's where the working-time pressure, and the assumption that anything that survived that long probably isn't too wrong, make heavy rewriting difficult. tl;dr anime (manga, digital light novels, GaaS, etc) are a lot closer to live interpretation without notes than traditional translation is. Judge Dredd Scott posted:why do Old Goons still get insanely irrationally mad at the existence of anime. what is so broken in the gen xer brain that causes this It's late 90s high school cliques all the way down, and the ur-goon population, as the comedy website of a failed FPS reviewer, is either the class clown who bought not being a freak by being extremely loudly normative or the competitive Quake/UT kid who really wants to think of himself as "the least recognized of the jocks" rather than anything like the dweeb who pretends he's Sephiroth. Mandoric has issued a correction as of 23:43 on Jun 2, 2021 |
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Jun 2, 2021 23:28
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Armored Trooper Votoms is still an underrated franchise. It's still way harder to watch any of it than it ought to be. It's a very slow burn, and from what I can remember from watching the first 1/2 of it is all about one man's revenge and a rotating cast of people who end up killed in the process of getting to know him.
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Jun 2, 2021 23:52
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Anime has Only Gotten Better
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Jun 3, 2021 00:07
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Cool insight thanks  I can only imagine how much of a clusterfuck it must be working on those kinds of projects
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Jun 3, 2021 00:38
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pillsburysoldier posted:Anime has Well yeah, but I miss that 80s/90s art style anime used to have
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Jun 3, 2021 00:49
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Casey Finnigan posted:I'm basing it off the fact that I've tried to translate a game myself in my spare time and it's hard enough with no pressure. If I had to do something like that by a short deadline and for bad pay like many people in the industry have to do I'd probably end up cutting corners. There are plenty of cases where getting an accurate translation that captures nuance might not be too bad, but also plenty of cases where you run into a lot of trouble. Doesn't matter if you're the best writer on Earth in Japanese and English, if you get a week to translate 500,000 words it's gonna suck. Ff7 remake knew that what people really wanted was near constant twee chatter from your party members
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Jun 3, 2021 01:04
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Judge Dredd Scott posted:why do Old Goons still get insanely irrationally mad at the existence of anime. what is so broken in the gen xer brain that causes this it's racism
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Jun 3, 2021 01:15
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Was Mega Man X a cop for siding with humanity?
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Jun 3, 2021 01:18
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Judge Dredd Scott posted:why do Old Goons still get insanely irrationally mad at the existence of anime. what is so broken in the gen xer brain that causes this I wasn't around for it but 2000's ADTRW got bad enough that they had to widescale purge almost the entire board, whose userbase then went and formed 4chan. So goons who were around for those days justifiably hate anime and think its all pedo poo poo
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Jun 3, 2021 01:19
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Imagine showing someone any Nickelodeon show from the 00s and then they believe forever that American TV is about childrens' feet.
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Jun 3, 2021 01:19
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Feldegast42 posted:I wasn't around for it but 2000's ADTRW got bad enough that they had to widescale purge almost the entire board, whose userbase then went and formed 4chan. So goons who were around for those days justifiably hate anime and think its all pedo poo poo yeah 4chan was basically all the raspberryheaven DC++ dudes i just got my anime by shitposting in fansub irc channels like a normal person
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Jun 3, 2021 01:23
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Not sure how ya'll got that out of my post but I think you missed my point and/or didn't read/watch the things I posted. My point is there's a lot of TL professionals doing hard work and putting out good, natural dialogue that I don't think it's right to just pretend they don't exist or are just churning stuff out. And doing stuff like finding ways to naturally write around cliches like 'i won't forgive x' or whatnot while still staying in a given character's voice is a big part of that. To grab one of the linked threads from before, a good bit on the revision process: https://twitter.com/katrinaltrnsl8r/status/1363565016285286401
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Jun 3, 2021 01:26
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Bootleg Trunks posted:Ff7 remake knew that what people really wanted was near constant twee chatter from your party members 
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Jun 3, 2021 01:26
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What I want to know is why Netflix can't get the timing right on their subs for loving anything
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Jun 3, 2021 01:28
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:Not sure how ya'll got that out of my post but I think you missed my point and/or didn't read/watch the things I posted. My point is there's a lot of TL professionals doing hard work and putting out good, natural dialogue that I don't think it's right to just pretend they don't exist or are just churning stuff out. I.....never pretended they don't exist? Nor that there aren't any putting out good dialogue?  just that there are some cases where things can be too much of a 1:1 translation and some time to edit things to be a bit more natural is niceGoing back and reading my post I use "some" and "times" and other quantifiers so not sure how you read that as a blanket statement across all translators
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Jun 3, 2021 01:36
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And I provided some nice examples of professionals showing exactly how they go about that in more than a few cases? Like, from what I see, there's a lot of love going into that work, and I give a lot of props to people doing the artform well.
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Jun 3, 2021 01:39
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You seem to be acting like I'm assuming otherwise, I don't know how to make my point any clearer - there are times where I would prefer translations get a bit more editing time but am completely aware of the limitations and realities of the sometimes grueling work of translating stuff for pennies I really don't know how I can be clearer - im saying that in some cases like my example with HNI, I'd like to see some more time given to making dialogue a bit more natural, im not disregarding the work of translators across the board dude
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Jun 3, 2021 01:58
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Can't believe only one person recommend City Hunter after someone asked for "city pop" recommendations. like of all the things https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE0xHzgDpU0 that is it. Personally I am not sure if I would recommend watching it though. It's very long, and there's really no over reaching plot. There's tons of references, homages, and jokes that the animation studio included. It is very much a product of it's time, like city pop, though. 
Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 02:11 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 02:05
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So what's gonna happen to berserk
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Jun 3, 2021 02:22
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A part of me wants the assistants to just straight up finish it if outlines exist The other part of me just wants to see said outline and just imagine it in my head The smaller less selfish part of me would see it die rather than hosed up and ending poorly (I still prefer the two top choices out of pure greed and desire to see how it ends lol)
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Jun 3, 2021 02:30
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Lostconfused posted:Personally I am not sure if I would recommend watching it though. It's very long, and there's really no over reaching plot. There's tons of references, homages, and jokes that the animation studio included. It is very much a product of it's time, like city pop, though. That's not very mokkori of you
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Jun 3, 2021 02:46
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Sharkopath posted:Didnt grow up with it and have the cynical streak from that life experience that it has to be for losers, because that was the omnipresent joke in 2004 when the forums were relevant, but now anybody under the age of 30 grew up with anime and like it and talk about it normally, and they havent experienced that so they only know the old joke. idk about goons but at least in mainstream american culture there is still unfortunately a lot of association with some of the uglier aspects of fandom. the usual interaction i have when bringing up anime with somebody is along the line of "oh yeah, i like, you know miyazaki and akira but i'm not really into the weeb stuff. i'm not like one of those waifu body pillow guys." fwiw i think it's gotten a lot better in the last 10 years or so but for people who came of age in the 00s that notion is still somewhat prevalent.
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Jun 3, 2021 02:47
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net work error posted:That's not very mokkori of you Just because I am dumb enough to watch over one hundred episodes of a guy getting smashed in the head with a hammer for trying to grope women, doesn't mean everyone else should.
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Jun 3, 2021 02:59
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pillsburysoldier posted:Anime has bold of you to say this when Char's Counterattack was released over thirty years ago
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Jun 3, 2021 03:04
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Lostconfused posted:Just because I am dumb enough to watch over one hundred episodes of a guy getting smashed in the head with a hammer for trying to grope women, doesn't mean everyone else should. To be fair, he did shoot that grenade that one time and it was cool. Also the ending owns
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Jun 3, 2021 04:30
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Bootleg Trunks posted:So what's gonna happen to berserk they couldn't do it with him, you think they're gonna be able to do it without him?
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Jun 3, 2021 04:36
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Judge Dredd Scott posted:why do Old Goons still get insanely irrationally mad at the existence of anime. what is so broken in the gen xer brain that causes this jokes turned into brainworms Homeless Friend posted:they couldn't do it with him, you think they're gonna be able to do it without him? forever on the
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