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Spatial
Nov 15, 2007

Batterypowered7 posted:

Has anyone complained about Agile on this page yet?
We became agile a couple of years ago.

Instead of one hour-long meeting per week about what people are doing, we now have six 45 minute meetings per week about what people are doing.

Instead of working on issues in week-long bursts - sprints you might even say - issues now change randomly based on whatever management is ignorantly panicking over that day.

Instead of starting with some brief experimentation and working towards a set of overall requirements for the project re-evaluating week by week as we make progress, entire projects are now planned out beginning to end as a series of tasks specified down to the hour, a process which takes several months. They're all woefully underestimated too of course.

Yeah... they switched to agile by implementing waterfall. lol.

Spatial fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Jun 3, 2021

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Spatial
Nov 15, 2007

What a sick snipe

Cheesus
Oct 17, 2002

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.
Yam Slacker

Spatial posted:

They're all woefully underestimated too of course.
Despite several times sticking my neck out to get buy in from management to have implementers properly scope tickets, my recommendations are ignored.

(Not given pushback. Not told to go gently caress off. Just completely ignored.)

With that backdrop, our leaders primary complaints are:

"Do you understand how sick and tired we are of always telling our stakeholders we will be slipping the previous date we committed to?"

And:

"If you see an architechual problem we want you to do whatever it takes to fix the problem right then and there."

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Cheesus posted:

"If you see an architectural problem we want you to do whatever it takes to fix the problem right then and there."

What I'm hearing is if you get this in writing you have an iron-clad free pass to do whatever the gently caress you want to actually get a problem solved.

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
Why did you murder the head of procurement?
You told me to!

Cheesus
Oct 17, 2002

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.
Yam Slacker

Neddy Seagoon posted:

What I'm hearing is if you get this in writing you have an iron-clad free pass to do whatever the gently caress you want to actually get a problem solved.
In theory, yes.

In practice, considering the "mah schedule" it's more like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1LUYJnGu-M&t=25s

ArbitraryC
Jan 28, 2009
Pick a number, any number
Pillbug

satanic splash-back posted:

I get voice mails all the time at my work. Most of them say things like hey this is so-and-so could you please give me a call back? Or hey this is so-and-so and I think your email (that said do not contact me for questions) had something wrong and it could you call me back please?

I did get one voicemail once that was kind of important in the last year.

This is why I don’t get why anyone wants voicemails. If it’s call where you recognize the number it’s just understood you’re gonna call back when you have a moment. Why waste the time to listen to a voicemail that says “call me back”? I’m glad people I know understand this.

This is true for personal or work calls. I’m legit flabbergasted a bunch of goons are clamoring for voicemails, I hate voicemails I can already see who I need to contact on my list of missed calls.

e: though I can understand why this may not work if you regularly get calls from people you don't know at all. And I do agree if something is easier as an email/text that is preferred, though often times I think people exaggerated how much easier text is because our generation hates using the phone, a email that gets pingponged for half a day because neither side is psychic enough to anticipate every followup question could have often been resolved in a live conversation of only a few minutes.

ArbitraryC fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jun 3, 2021

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Cheesus posted:

Despite several times sticking my neck out to get buy in from management to have implementers properly scope tickets, my recommendations are ignored.

(Not given pushback. Not told to go gently caress off. Just completely ignored.)

With that backdrop, our leaders primary complaints are:

"Do you understand how sick and tired we are of always telling our stakeholders we will be slipping the previous date we committed to?"

And:

"If you see an architechual problem we want you to do whatever it takes to fix the problem right then and there."

Dang that's no good. We have ten items that have been clogging our ticket queue, consisting of Epics, Stories, and Sprints, created by our Agile Coach before they wandered off and forgot about us. As getting them removed would likely involve another hour long planning session I'll just ignore them for now.

Zarin
Nov 11, 2008

I SEE YOU

ArbitraryC posted:

This is why I don’t get why anyone wants voicemails. If it’s call where you recognize the number it’s just understood you’re gonna call back when you have a moment. Why waste the time to listen to a voicemail that says “call me back”? I’m glad people I know understand this.

This is true for personal or work calls. I’m legit flabbergasted a bunch of goons are clamoring for voicemails, I hate voicemails I can already see who I need to contact on my list of missed calls.

Nobody wants voicemails. That's the point, I think; if you call, and it's important enough to inconvenience me by leaving a voicemail, then it's important enough for me to call you back about.

Conversely, if you call me and DON'T leave a voicemail, I'm going to assume you can't remember how to do a VLookup or something and have moved on to someone who picked up the phone.

Of course, as I say this, I consider that I have called people back who didn't leave a voicemail because I was curious why they called me. It's probably also worth mentioning that I haven't used an actual telephone professionally ever since we rolled out Teams (so, 3+ years?), since I work at a MegaCorp and don't have an externally-facing role.



ArbitraryC posted:

e: though I can understand why this may not work if you regularly get calls from people you don't know at all. And I do agree if something is easier as an email/text that is preferred, though often times I think people exaggerated how much easier text is because our generation hates using the phone, a email that gets pingponged for half a day because neither side is psychic enough to anticipate every followup question could have often been resolved in a live conversation of only a few minutes.

I'm with you here; there are SO MANY times I'm like "Yo can we go over this in a screenshare real quick?" and the response is "Can you send an email?" and then when I could have had my answer in 5 minutes and we both moved on with our life, we now have an email chain a dozen emails long and we've both wasted an hour reading and replying to something that would have been a 5 minute phone call.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:

Zarin posted:

I'm with you here; there are SO MANY times I'm like "Yo can we go over this in a screenshare real quick?" and the response is "Can you send an email?" and then when I could have had my answer in 5 minutes and we both moved on with our life, we now have an email chain a dozen emails long and we've both wasted an hour reading and replying to something that would have been a 5 minute phone call.

The important bit here is doing the same email chain in voicemail form would be even more stupid and annoying. So one email with 'Hey, I need help, send me a zoom invite for screen share' is STILL going to be easier than a voicemail.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



ArbitraryC posted:

This is why I don’t get why anyone wants voicemails. If it’s call where you recognize the number it’s just understood you’re gonna call back when you have a moment. Why waste the time to listen to a voicemail that says “call me back”? I’m glad people I know understand this.

This is true for personal or work calls. I’m legit flabbergasted a bunch of goons are clamoring for voicemails, I hate voicemails I can already see who I need to contact on my list of missed calls.

My work phone is basically a message phone for incoming calls - 99% of the time I cannot answer, even if I do know who is calling. My day is broken up into scheduled appointments, and I cannot answer the phone during appointments. People have to call me for various reasons, including to schedule those appointments with me, which requires they leave a voicemail.

I don't see why it is so difficult to comprehend that some jobs require voicemail.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


If someone doesn’t leave a voicemail, the call wasn’t important enough to warrant me talking to them.

I can listen to my voicemail while doing other things: usually churning through emails and approvals.

If someone does leave a voicemail, if they don’t give me any details bar “call me back” and they’re not my boss, I’ll wait until they send me an email with the details, because I can’t be sure that calling them back is a productive use of my time.

If someone leaves a voicemail that outlines the problem they need my help with, I can spend five minutes before I call them back putting together the solution and making sure that no-one’s time is wasted.

I have loads of demands on my time, if I did all the things that I was asked to do by the various people who want my input, I’d never actually get my job done.

Faustian Bargain
Apr 12, 2014


Spatial posted:

We became agile a couple of years ago.

Instead of one hour-long meeting per week about what people are doing, we now have six 45 minute meetings per week about what people are doing.

Instead of working on issues in week-long bursts - sprints you might even say - issues now change randomly based on whatever management is ignorantly panicking over that day.

Instead of starting with some brief experimentation and working towards a set of overall requirements for the project re-evaluating week by week as we make progress, entire projects are now planned out beginning to end as a series of tasks specified down to the hour, a process which takes several months. They're all woefully underestimated too of course.

Yeah... they switched to agile by implementing waterfall. lol.
Haha this sounds exactly like my last job. My current job does it correctly and each team has their own daily standup that takes at most 15 minutes. Managers and pms prioritize things and there is way less switching gears and wasting time.

I’m so happy to be away from waterfall and the inevitable revising the whole projection multiple times per week because some one got a hair up their rear end about a feature they aren’t even going to think about uptaking for months but had to be done right loving now. Spent more time planning and revising that I could’ve used for dev.

Jeza
Feb 13, 2011

The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.
Many of my projects are assigned to be completed by EOD on the day they are assigned, but have to be submitted for a review to every interested party (so between 3-5 people, usually) before they can be fully signed off.

Then after making amends in line with comments, the amended version must go through the same review process as before.

And if there are more amends, etcetcetc.

Have you ever had to chase 5 separate people for amends three or even four times in a day? Even doing it once can be torture. And the worst part is that some people only review copies after a certain other person has reviewed it (as in they review a part-reviewed copy), so it's not like they all review simultaneously. The review time is practically cumulative per person because it doesn't run simultaneously.

Inevitably, this means that like half the stuff I work on is never finished by EOD, not because I didn't have time but because of the sheer amount of deadtime of waiting for people to respond on reviews. Often it's the only thing I have on that day, so I just twiddle my thumbs. Then, inevitably, it's too late to finish that day so I finish it the next. But I generally have another new project 'due' EOD that day as well, so everything is forever half a day behind.

Why don't they give me two projects and schedule two days for each so I can at least balance the time while one is in review? Why do I have to go through Zeno's review process?

:iiam:

Zarin
Nov 11, 2008

I SEE YOU

Outrail posted:

The important bit here is doing the same email chain in voicemail form would be even more stupid and annoying. So one email with 'Hey, I need help, send me a zoom invite for screen share' is STILL going to be easier than a voicemail.

Oh, yeah, THAT part would be fine, where the email takes the place of the voicemail. "Hey call me when you get a sec" would be fine. Calling me and just hanging up? You'll be lucky if I remember that call even came in when I free up.

Samuel L. Hacksaw
Mar 26, 2007

Never Stop Posting
I'm jumping the gun and running my team by 'agile' now. I've actually always done it and just showed waterfall style reports to management.

Hopefully when the real deployment rolls around they don't force me to use points. That just makes people think about getting the max points per sprint rather than focusing on features that add value.

I just run my team with 2 week work plans and manage priority and drop ins ad-hoc through IM, eliminating the stand-up overhead in favor of a one per week team meeting we use for risk management, flowdown, etc.

Samuel L. Hacksaw fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jun 3, 2021

vyst
Aug 25, 2009



Estimation in its current forms is loving stupid and even the original architects of the Agile Manifesto hate it

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


I run my team “nimble”.

What this means is that every so often I throw them into a pit with a tiger in it, and they have to come up with a novel sales solution before I’ll lower a rope.

It’s remarkably productive.

Cheesus
Oct 17, 2002

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.
Yam Slacker

vyst posted:

Estimation in its current forms is loving stupid and even the original architects of the Agile Manifesto hate it
Completely agree.

However, there's a world of difference between the product dude writing a ticket for "customer wants widget" and providing "2 days" and someone likely to work on fixing/writing said feature putting some degree of domain expertise to come up with "4 days".

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

Actual text of an email today, very slightly paraphrased in []: "It looks like your [saved and finished] Excel file for this project is sorted in a different order than mine. Can you re-sort it to the original and send it back to me?"
For reference, his original sort was completely random and scattered poo poo everywhere, mine re-grouped everything by type, class, set, and ID so it was in a predictable order. But dude doesn't know he can read an Excel file just the same if it's in an order that makes sense and we have no order-dependent automatic tools either of us can access (because we have no automatic tools either of us can access).

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Zarin posted:


It's probably also worth mentioning that I haven't used an actual telephone professionally ever since we rolled out Teams (so, 3+ years?), since I work at a MegaCorp and don't have an externally-facing role.

I'll do you one better; you only get a phone line if you request one, and it's just a soft phone to your laptop or whatever. I haven't had a physical phone on my desk in over 7 years and I'm very happy about that. I can count on one hand the number of times I actually wanted to use a desk phone for something or received a useful voicemail in the 10 odd years prior to that.

The only time I had to do phone calls with regularity was when I had a boss in a different city's office who preferred to discuss things via voice, before there were ubiquitous video conference options. It sucked and I was very happy when he wasn't my boss anymore.

Zarin
Nov 11, 2008

I SEE YOU

Scientastic posted:

I have loads of demands on my time, if I did all the things that I was asked to do by the various people who want my input, I’d never actually get my job done.

Personally, I really hate that this is a consideration. I totally, completely understand where you are at and your mindset here, because I'm also in a position where I feel like I'm 150% burdened (whereas most of the academic types think that an 80% burden rate is probably the ideal for each member of a workforce).

I just hate that I WANT to help people, but I pretty much HAVE to balance helping others against "well if I help them then I'm not gonna get my poo poo done" and you end up with this weird dichotomy where the people who help others are probably more valuable to the enterprise as a whole, but the people who DON'T help others and just focus on their own metrics are the ones that get promoted.

Business is a sham.



SkyeAuroline posted:

Actual text of an email today, very slightly paraphrased in []: "It looks like your [saved and finished] Excel file for this project is sorted in a different order than mine. Can you re-sort it to the original and send it back to me?"
For reference, his original sort was completely random and scattered poo poo everywhere, mine re-grouped everything by type, class, set, and ID so it was in a predictable order. But dude doesn't know he can read an Excel file just the same if it's in an order that makes sense and we have no order-dependent automatic tools either of us can access (because we have no automatic tools either of us can access).


I dunno about that, sounds like you have access to at least ONE tool. It's him, he's the tool :v:

Edit: How important is this person? I think this is a time where I would be angry enough to smash Reply All and, in my best imitation of the greats (Twain, Chaucer, Dickens) respond with:

Gary,

No.

Regards,
{Zarin's Signature}

Zarin fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jun 3, 2021

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
Perfect time to use one of these.

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

vyst posted:

Estimation in its current forms is loving stupid and even the original architects of the Agile Manifesto hate it

Probably why it’s the only thing (project) management loves it. It can be tracked, measured, showed to execs on a graph

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

Zarin posted:

I dunno about that, sounds like you have access to at least ONE tool. It's him, he's the tool :v:

Edit: How important is this person? I think this is a time where I would be angry enough to smash Reply All and, in my best imitation of the greats (Twain, Chaucer, Dickens) respond with:

Gary,

No.

Regards,
{Zarin's Signature}

He's a nobody. Bottom rung. I updated it because I was already in the file and had the original index set up in the file still, visibly present so it was one button press. Got clearance from my manager to tell him to gently caress off if he asks again though. (Not literally, sadly.)

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Zarin posted:

I just hate that I WANT to help people, but I pretty much HAVE to balance helping others against "well if I help them then I'm not gonna get my poo poo done" and you end up with this weird dichotomy where the people who help others are probably more valuable to the enterprise as a whole, but the people who DON'T help others and just focus on their own metrics are the ones that get promoted.

Business is a sham.

I’m not sure it’s as simple as that: I want to help people who genuinely need my help, but if I tried to do every single thing that people ask me to do (many of which are not my job, could be better and more easily done by someone else, or could even be solved by that person themselves if they took the initiative) I wouldn’t have time to solve the problems that really need my input.

By putting a small barrier to entry on getting me to pay attention to a problem, it weeds out the people who are just too lazy to look up who the right person to call is.

There’s definitely a balance, because the people who aren’t helpful and only focus on their own KPIs don’t get very far (at least not in my organisation) because everyone knows they’re not focused on anything but themselves, which is completely toxic for a team.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009

Scientastic posted:

I’m not sure it’s as simple as that: I want to help people who genuinely need my help, but if I tried to do every single thing that people ask me to do (many of which are not my job, could be better and more easily done by someone else, or could even be solved by that person themselves if they took the initiative) I wouldn’t have time to solve the problems that really need my input.

By putting a small barrier to entry on getting me to pay attention to a problem, it weeds out the people who are just too lazy to look up who the right person to call is.

There’s definitely a balance, because the people who aren’t helpful and only focus on their own KPIs don’t get very far (at least not in my organisation) because everyone knows they’re not focused on anything but themselves, which is completely toxic for a team.

About half the people I work with want to learn so they don't have to ask again and I don't mind helping them. A quick the buttons here and do this gets them going way faster than making them figure it out for themselves.

The other half are meat based robot arms running a lovely macro. Every time I show them directly the macro gets ask Honda whisperer stuck in it.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:

Volmarias posted:

Perfect time to use one of these.

JFC that paper airplane one is incredible.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

A coworker on our bloated podcast communications team with nothing to do has decided to spread the wisdom of mediation. Rather than take this as a sign to reduce this teams' headcount and use that space for critical roles that weren't backfilled, we have begun getting emails about how to increase our mindfulness. I'm no expert but considering Amazon's approach to "mindfulness" I'm not sure if this has value https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/02/amazon-workers-stress-mindfulness-training

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:
That's got nothing to do with your mental well-being. The not even close to buried lede is they want to emulate Amazon's approach to human resources.

Outrail fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jun 4, 2021

Imagined
Feb 2, 2007
It's exactly the same energy as big corporations promoting consumer environmentalism such as recycling and plastic straw bans, meanwhile 90% of the pollution on Earth is done by like, 10 companies. It's done to shift the blame from the true perpetrator onto the victim. It's not that rapacious capitalist ghouls are destroying everything and making everyone miserable, it's that you're not recycling, it's that you're not practicing self-care, not being sufficiently mindful. Capitalism doesn't need to change: you do. By the way, we'll sell you some books about it. Watch some Youtube videos about it (with our advertising).

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer

Imagined posted:

It's exactly the same energy as big corporations promoting consumer environmentalism such as recycling and plastic straw bans, meanwhile 90% of the pollution on Earth is done by like, 10 companies. It's done to shift the blame from the true perpetrator onto the victim. It's not that rapacious capitalist ghouls are destroying everything and making everyone miserable, it's that you're not recycling, it's that you're not practicing self-care, not being sufficiently mindful. Capitalism doesn't need to change: you do. By the way, we'll sell you some books about it. Watch some Youtube videos about it (with our advertising).

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

Password field that isn't exact-match sensitive.

I think that stands on its own without explanation.

Tarkus
Aug 27, 2000

Imagined posted:

It's exactly the same energy as big corporations promoting consumer environmentalism such as recycling and plastic straw bans, meanwhile 90% of the pollution on Earth is done by like, 10 companies. It's done to shift the blame from the true perpetrator onto the victim. It's not that rapacious capitalist ghouls are destroying everything and making everyone miserable, it's that you're not recycling, it's that you're not practicing self-care, not being sufficiently mindful. Capitalism doesn't need to change: you do. By the way, we'll sell you some books about it. Watch some Youtube videos about it (with our advertising).

Amazon is doing their part in helping employees with mental health issues, what are YOU doing citizen? Amazon has developed a mindful room, thanks god!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4V_yAPfSr8

I thank our corporate overlords for being so generous as to provide a small respite from our daily hell.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

My MegaCorp has been WFH since March 2020 after previously never having that as an option. While during this phase it doesn't matter where employees are located, it was clear eventually employees would need to return. An oddity from another team was hiring someone who lives six hours away without considering long term implications and they're stressing about the next steps. Weird their management would have approved the hire without an expectation the person would move closer.

Blue Footed Booby
Oct 4, 2006

got those happy feet

SkyeAuroline posted:

Password field that isn't exact-match sensitive.

I think that stands on its own without explanation.

What's the demi-password protecting?

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

Blue Footed Booby posted:

What's the demi-password protecting?

Oh, just write access to the entire database

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
It seems like there was a while there when websites would recommend you use symbols and capitals and then sanitize the input to non-caps specific alphanumeric because I guess it's easier to write the password policy than implement a password.

Imagined
Feb 2, 2007
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here but it's funny that every company's password policy is basically the opposite of what all the research in the field says will produce the most secure passwords, i.e. the "must have capital letters, numbers, symbols, and you must change it every 30 days to one you've never used before" in practice guarantees that your employees will write that weird password down on a post-it note and stick it to their monitor, and expressly forbids what research says is the most secure type of password: a string of four or more random but easily remembered words like dickbuttgoatsex.

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Full Metal Jackass
Jan 22, 2001

Rabid bats are welcome in my home
Just got an email from our CNO that someone got fired for charging HUNDREDS of unearned PTO hours. Our payroll system also requires leader approval for time exception like PTO. The email states the leader was approving the hours and didn't ensure the individual had accrued them. We get like 120 hours a year and cant roll it over so this leader is an absolute dipshit or in on the scam and gets no repercussion. I'm sure they'll be promoted soon.

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