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Thinking about those beans
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Jun 4, 2021 18:44
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgjvLQu5NlE Hoffman made a video about grinders. He talks about stuff like step vs stepless, blade vs burrs, flat vs conical burrs, and roughly what moving up in pricepoints in electric grinders gives you. All the fun questions people have probably been asking since the creation of the thread.
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Jun 4, 2021 19:48
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I have been watching practically everything he published since 2020 and some of his stuff from before, I think it's finally time I buy his dumb book
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Jun 4, 2021 23:47
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So I'm considering a ROK/Flair/Robot espresso machine - anybody have experience with any of the three? I've watched James Hoffman's videos on each (in addition to a few others) and it seems like they're all equally good at making espresso with their own quirks and such.
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Jun 5, 2021 01:30
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a mysterious cloak posted:So I'm considering a ROK/Flair/Robot espresso machine - anybody have experience with any of the three? I've watched James Hoffman's videos on each (in addition to a few others) and it seems like they're all equally good at making espresso with their own quirks and such. i'm in the most recent wave of robotbuyers and really like mine so far, it's my friend and looks and feels great and makes great espresso (though i personally am still not great at dialling in espresso). i think broad consensus among lots of people i talked to was that the robot was probably the best out of that selection, but also it's significantly more expensive than the others additionally, the flair 58 is coming out soon, but also costs like $150 more than the robot and it isn't available for sale yet, so who knows if it'll end up being a better value or what. seems like it's unlikely to make better espresso than the robot in some purely hypothetical sense, but it might be a nicer workflow that's worth the money to some eke out fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 02:13
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a mysterious cloak posted:So I'm considering a ROK/Flair/Robot espresso machine - anybody have experience with any of the three? I've watched James Hoffman's videos on each (in addition to a few others) and it seems like they're all equally good at making espresso with their own quirks and such. I can't speak comparatively But I was not disappointed with my rok I got some very good espresso out of it, a small learning curve , but that's manual espresso  I barely use it anymore more because counter space is at a premium where I am Would get it out again if my partner wanted short coffees again
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Jun 5, 2021 02:41
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a mysterious cloak posted:So I'm considering a ROK/Flair/Robot espresso machine - anybody have experience with any of the three? I've watched James Hoffman's videos on each (in addition to a few others) and it seems like they're all equally good at making espresso with their own quirks and such. Do you already have a good grinder?
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Jun 5, 2021 03:11
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Mu Zeta posted:Do you already have a good grinder? I have a Capresso Infinity that I'll probably use until it dies.
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Jun 5, 2021 03:13
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a mysterious cloak posted:I have a Capresso Infinity that I'll probably use until it dies. you'll have a bad time with this trying to do espresso bottom-end actually good, can use it for the rest of your life option is a jx-pro manual grinder e: or yeah use a pressurized portafiler
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Jun 5, 2021 03:16
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In that case I would really consider the Flair Neo with the pressurized basket. You'll always get a decent or good shot from that without a huge amount of frustration.
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Jun 5, 2021 03:16
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Flair Pro 2 plus a JX-Pro here, absolutely outstanding for the ~$500 total price. 18g dose at 1.8.0 on the grinder gives 36g out at 30sec pretty reliablely...
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Jun 5, 2021 03:36
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When my grind has been bad I have been frustrated by short pulls even with the robot’s pressurized portafilter. So ymmv even with a pressurized portafilter basket. I didn’t get consistency and a really good shot till I bought a grinder.
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Jun 5, 2021 03:46
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Yea, you absolutely need a grinder with fine adjustment in the espresso range. I tried to make a go of it with the Robot and a Virtuoso+ and just could not get into a good range for the light-to-medium roasts I like. Wound up getting an open-box Specialita and I'm getting coffee that is much more drinkable - or at least, I can tell if it's over- or under-extracted instead of somehow being both at once
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Jun 5, 2021 04:38
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Bandire posted:I fully expect someone to propose grinding beans and packing the portafilter in a dark room to avoid light corruption or similar ridiculous poo poo. You joke, but direct sunlight on your hopper will gently caress your grind up right quick. In one of my old barista gigs the sun would come through this one window and shine directly on the grinder and we’d have to dramatically change the grind for like 30 mins before the sun moved past then we’d have to adjust it back again which is a complete pain in the arse during a busy service Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 05:18
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Wafflecopper posted:You joke, but direct sunlight on your hopper will gently caress your grind up right quick. In one of my old barista gigs the sun would come through this one window and shine directly on the grinder and we’d have to dramatically change the grind for like 30 mins before the sun moved past then we’d have to adjust it back again which is a complete pain in the arse during a busy service That sounds like the grinder heating up rather than anything to do with uv staling the beans
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Jun 5, 2021 12:02
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hypnophant posted:That sounds like the grinder heating up rather than anything to do with uv staling the beans I think this is the case. Some commercial grinders actually have temperature-controlled grind chambers to combat this issue.
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Jun 5, 2021 12:27
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Wafflecopper posted:You joke, but direct sunlight on your hopper will gently caress your grind up right quick. In one of my old barista gigs the sun would come through this one window and shine directly on the grinder and we’d have to dramatically change the grind for like 30 mins before the sun moved past then we’d have to adjust it back again which is a complete pain in the arse during a busy service When you're working on the bar, how do you determine that a change in the grind is necessary? Are you judging by the timing of shots, or are you occasionally tasting them?
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Jun 5, 2021 12:28
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Canuck-Errant posted:Yea, you absolutely need a grinder with fine adjustment in the espresso range. I tried to make a go of it with the Robot and a Virtuoso+ and just could not get into a good range for the light-to-medium roasts I like. I was using shop-ground coffee and I had resigned myself to one of two fates. Either everything I made was sour no matter how I tweaked the recipe or I had taste blindness (sour-bitter confusion). I ended up just making a lot of dark roast because it was more forgiving. First cup with the specialita was neither sour nor bitter.
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Jun 5, 2021 13:20
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So we were talking about spices in coffee a while back. I went by a Syrian delicacy shop today and they were selling Syrian-style coffee beans. They are spiced up with a bit of cardamon and it smells kinda nice. You don't taste the spice as much as if you do it yourself, though. I guess it's worth a try to grab a bag if you have the opportunity.
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Jun 5, 2021 13:43
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PSA: Seattle coffee gear is having an open box sale.
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Jun 5, 2021 16:48
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ThirstyBuck posted:PSA: Seattle coffee gear is having an open box sale. also psa: sweetmaria's has a very delicious-sounding gesha in stock at the moment quote:This wet process version of the Las Aguilas Gesha boasts clean, succinct cup flavors, and perfumed jasmine florals you should rightly expect from the Gesha cultivar. City and City+ roast levels are about the range I'd shoot for with this coffee. Any darker will result in a nice sweet cup, but without the delicate floral tea qualities found at the lighter end of the roast spectrum. The scent is just so complex and clean, sweet with fruited hints and tea-like highlight notes, the prized floral characteristics particularly potent in the lightest City roasts. The brewed coffee has a sprinkle of clove spice and jasmine pearl tea, as well as a cherry note that adds a juicy touch to the otherwise delicate profile. The underlying sweetness is clean like semi-refined sugars, on the transparent side, but accented by some of the darker raw sugar cane aspects too. As the cup temperature dips, the fruited flavors deepen to include hints of strawberry taffy and a tropical kiwi hint. The finish is pristine and highlighted by an aromatic roast accent of corn silk tea in the aftertaste. City+ roasts are just as complex though trade some of the delicate floral qualities for juicier fruit flavors, like cherry juice and red plum.
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Jun 5, 2021 17:10
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How the gently caress is that not a pretentious wine description
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Jun 5, 2021 17:32
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I always imagine someone orgasming to the smell of their own farts
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Jun 5, 2021 17:37
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I don't even mean that in a bad way, same thing happens between descriptions of scotch whisky and very grindy metal music.
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Jun 5, 2021 17:40
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For how much gesha sells for they better have a fart sniffing description of the highest order. It's part of the fantasy of luxury products.
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Jun 5, 2021 17:50
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unfortunately, thom is both nice and coolsilvergoose posted:I don't even mean that in a bad way, same thing happens between descriptions of scotch whisky and very grindy metal music. yeah that's literally how he writes every description lol, the fart-sniffing level is extremely constant across grades, i assume when you do this for however long his company has been open and taste god knows how many thousands of coffees it starts to become pretty natural eke out fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 17:53
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silvergoose posted:How the gently caress is that not a pretentious wine description Specialty coffee is pretentious, sorry you're just finding out now
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Jun 5, 2021 18:13
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I spent like 2 hours dialing in an espresso today because I refused to believe I had my grind setting wrong. Turns out having too coarse a grind causes short pulls and channeling that can be minimized through lucky puck grooming but not eliminated. Finally decided it might be the grind, set it lower, and got it right two tries later. No channeling with a 33s pull.
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Jun 5, 2021 18:29
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Every now and again, I'll get this weird itch to buy a home espresso set up. When that happens, I'll come to this thread and find umpteen cautionary tales as to why I should definitely NOT do that. Don't get me wrong: I greatly admire those of you who have spent so much time and money pursuing this white whale, but I think it's just not for me at all. Tippecanoe posted:Specialty coffee is pretentious, sorry you're just finding out now
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Jun 5, 2021 19:04
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That black EG-1 looks even nicer than the silver one. One day.
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Jun 5, 2021 20:13
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betterinsodapop posted:Every now and again, I'll get this weird itch to buy a home espresso set up. When that happens, I'll come to this thread and find umpteen cautionary tales as to why I should definitely NOT do that. I occasionally think about selling my machine off and just making very fancy v60s with my exorbitantly expensive grinder, but I spend probably the same amount of time thinking about getting a dedicated brew grinder
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Jun 6, 2021 01:25
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All good advice on the manual espresso stuff, thanks!Mu Zeta posted:In that case I would really consider the Flair Neo with the pressurized basket. You'll always get a decent or good shot from that without a huge amount of frustration. This is probably the way I'll go, I just balk at the price of legit espresso-grade grinders. If I get completely hooked that would be another story, though... silvergoose posted:I don't even mean that in a bad way, same thing happens between descriptions of scotch whisky and very grindy metal music. I'm okay with flowery descriptions of tastes, but mostly because I only skim it and don't taste it in that much detail anyway. I roast coffee for my parents all the time, and my mom just doesn't get how I pick which coffees to buy. My entire process is "the quick description sounded good."
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Jun 6, 2021 02:20
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hypnophant posted:That sounds like the grinder heating up rather than anything to do with uv staling the beans Oh yeah it’s definitely the heat, didn’t mean it was literally the light doing it Gunder posted:When you're working on the bar, how do you determine that a change in the grind is necessary? Are you judging by the timing of shots, or are you occasionally tasting them? Depends on the bar. The better setups I’ve used have all had shot timers built into the machine and volumetrics for running the shots. So you dial in in the morning by tasting and make a note of your dose, yield, and extraction time once you’re happy with what you’re pulling. You keep your dose consistent and the volumetrics take care of the yield so your only remaining variable is the extraction time which you keep an eye on with the shot timers and adjust over the day as the heat and humidity change. With more basic setups it’s a combination of tasting and eyeballing, with a bit of manual weighing and timing when you can
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Jun 6, 2021 03:15
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AnimeIsTrash posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgjvLQu5NlE So this got me going through a bunch of his videos, and for the first time since getting "into" coffee this year I tried side-by-side tasting! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSEgP4VNynQ  I felt comfortable enough gauging acidity and body, and I've got a ton to learn about other qualities, but it's a good start. At the very least, I tried 4 different coffees (and a mix of all 4, made from when I would run a few beans through the grinder between batches) and I know which I like the best. I'll keep trying it, as I think this is the only way I'll teach myself to recognize good coffee, and as a result, to tell when I'm improving or loving up my technique.
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Jun 6, 2021 04:55
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Wafflecopper posted:Depends on the bar. The better setups I’ve used have all had shot timers built into the machine and volumetrics for running the shots. So you dial in in the morning by tasting and make a note of your dose, yield, and extraction time once you’re happy with what you’re pulling. You keep your dose consistent and the volumetrics take care of the yield so your only remaining variable is the extraction time which you keep an eye on with the shot timers and adjust over the day as the heat and humidity change. With more basic setups it’s a combination of tasting and eyeballing, with a bit of manual weighing and timing when you can And as someone who learned the craft on machines with a timer but no metrics, when you're pulling dozens/hundreds shots a day, you know what they're supposed to do - the initial drop pattern looks like *this* from 7-10 seconds, flow should be full but still dark by 15 seconds or so, color should change at 22-25s, by 28 seconds a demitasse should be *this* full or a capp mug *that* full, and so if any of those change you know it's time to adjust. Of course you're tasting every hour or two, but you don't generally need to to know if you're pulling good shots.
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Jun 6, 2021 17:05
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some fartmeister from sweetmarias posted:
Mu Zeta posted:For how much gesha sells for they better have a fart sniffing description of the highest order. It's part of the fantasy of luxury products.
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Jun 6, 2021 17:45
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JohnCompany posted:And as someone who learned the craft on machines with a timer but no metrics, when you're pulling dozens/hundreds shots a day, you know what they're supposed to do - the initial drop pattern looks like *this* from 7-10 seconds, flow should be full but still dark by 15 seconds or so, color should change at 22-25s, by 28 seconds a demitasse should be *this* full or a capp mug *that* full, and so if any of those change you know it's time to adjust. Of course you're tasting every hour or two, but you don't generally need to to know if you're pulling good shots. Yeah that's basically what I meant by eyeballing  I first learnt with no timers and no volumetrics so had to be counting seconds in my head and as you say you just get a feel for it after a while. I'm still a big believer in using scales, timers and volumetrics whenever possible though, there's always going to be that element of human error without them regardless of how good you are. The previous head barista at my current job was really into stopping her shots manually instead of letting the volumetrics take care of it because it was "better" but she was forever forgetting to stop shots and we'd have to chuck them out and pull another. Even if you have a perfect head clock/eyeball and remember to stop the shot right on time every time it's still an attention tax when you could be focusing on steaming or pouring or packing your next basket or fetching some customer a napkin or whatever
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Jun 7, 2021 01:59
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True. Nowadays I just have a linea mini so I "technically" brew manually, but I measure beans out dose by dose (fellow grinder obsessives, I just got an email that there's another Niche drop tomorrow afternoon!) and have a scale with a timer so I'm getting a lot of data after the fact. When I'm only pulling the three or four shots a day I need the metrics because I don't have the magic touch anymore, hah. That and my latte art has gone totally to poo poo.
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Jun 7, 2021 20:46
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So I have these coffee beans. They're, being generous, medium roast. They make a very weak, thin, watery, lovely coffee, no matter what coffee to water ratio I use. I use a Zojirushi drip coffee brewer with a vacuum carafe and a permanent filter, and I drink it black. I was thinking of maybe trying a paper filter to slow down the extraction but I have my doubts that will help. Can I try re-roasting these beans to a darker level to see if I can bring out more flavour from them? Or are they just a lost cause? They were roasted only a couple of days ago.
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Jun 8, 2021 12:29
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Finger Prince posted:So I have these coffee beans. They're, being generous, medium roast. They make a very weak, thin, watery, lovely coffee, no matter what coffee to water ratio I use. I use a Zojirushi drip coffee brewer with a vacuum carafe and a permanent filter, and I drink it black. I was thinking of maybe trying a paper filter to slow down the extraction but I have my doubts that will help. Can I try re-roasting these beans to a darker level to see if I can bring out more flavour from them? Or are they just a lost cause? They were roasted only a couple of days ago. I’m not familiar with the zojirushi dripper but i remember the wirecutter’s review complaining that it made weak coffee. My guess is it’s not hot enough for the lighter roast you’ve got- if you can stick a temperature probe in the bed, you would want to see 93°-95° C for a light roast. Darker roasts can get good results as low as 88° or maybe a bit lower. If you can make your beans in a french pies or pourover setup using freshly boiled water, you might be able to salvage them. No idea about re-roasting. e: before you try all that, maybe just grind finer? I assume you’re using a good grinder and know what you’re doing re: grind size but you didn’t mention
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Jun 8, 2021 12:57
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