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UOA was 15 bucks and 100% worth it. UOAM was free all the way though.
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Jun 8, 2021 05:45
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Chillgamesh posted:and playing too similarly to FFXI is a big part of what caused FFXIV 1.0 to be such a disaster. It didn't and it wasn't.
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Jun 8, 2021 05:56
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I can't speak to actual 1.x FFXIV but 0.x was absolutely worse than FFXI in a lot of ways. This is about actual game mechanics btw, not even the fact that both games had infinite nested menu but only one of them actually responded on time.
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Jun 8, 2021 06:00
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the thing that you can't bring back about old MMOs is that they were part of the old internet, a thing populated by a fairly restricted set of people with a certain attitude and ethos, and maybe most importantly, a thing we all viewed as a separate world from "real life". we were all so fascinated by the idea of a massive persistent social game not just because of the sociality of it, but because it promised an actual world to house this alternate reality project that we were all engaged in, full of people who also believed in and were excited by The Internet on some level. now the internet is a corporate hellscape intimately intertwined with real life. there is nothing separate about it in any way, except in old rear end communities like SA that consciously try to retain a barrier. just, like, talking to people isn't quite as appealing when the thing that distinguishes the talking is just a medium, not a community.
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Jun 8, 2021 07:01
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Jazerus posted:now the internet is a corporate hellscape intimately intertwined with real life. What you are saying is: the downfall of MMOs happened, after /pizza was introduced
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Jun 8, 2021 07:09
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my favourite thing about UO was playing with a friend and trying to find a place to build a tower once we saved up enough cash to buy the deed. we owned the smallest house before that, in a neighbourhood of many other smallest houses. we spent like a week trying to find a good spot for it and there were none. then, we noticed that if we destroyed our tiny house, there was *just* enough space between other tiny houses to squeeze in a tower, so we did that instead, and it looked really funny lodged between other tiny houses
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Jun 8, 2021 07:20
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Dackel posted:What you are saying is: the downfall of MMOs happened, after /pizza was introduced of course it did, since /pizza was when it peaked. It was all down hill from there
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Jun 8, 2021 09:28
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punk rebel ecks posted:I think what many MMO fans want is a major MMO to pull a BOTW or Super Mario Odyssey. Essentially not be an exact recreation of games of times of old but recreating the general "feeling" those games have by following their general philosophy. Well the most fun I've ever had in online gaming was text based combat muds in the pre-mmo era with a large group of friends. We took over a uni computer lab (with the loving worst nearly burned out mac classics you ever used) and played all night. Our collective crowning achievement was making the admins think we were a group of bots becuase we all had the same IPs and acted in unison. We had to make an effort to type chat into local to avoid getting mass purged. Fun as it was I would never want to relive that. It was good at the time but looking back, man games & convenience are a fuckload better now lol. It was fun at the time and I've let it go. You can't relive stuff, well barring catastrophic brain damage I guess. Always move fowards. Appreciate how much better people who haven't been burned out yet have it and be happy for them.
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Jun 8, 2021 11:08
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punk rebel ecks posted:This is why I listed BOTW and Super Mario Odyssey. Games that didn't recreate the games of yore 1:1, but clearly reimagined them for a modern era. There's another game that captures the feeling of the old Zeldas much better than BOTW  Smythe posted:Another thing that made UO so special that I've read before, and agree with as a hardcore UO player for many years, is that since it was the only game in town you had an actual real-life mix of sheep and wolves. Yeah it sucks UO could've only worked as one of the first MMOs because if you were a "carebear" you had no choice but to play with pvp on at all times if you wanted to play an MMO. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Jun 8, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 13:35
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jokes posted:Maybe they can release a good MMO that has constantly changing systems that makes data mining useless? Just bring back the mid/late 2000s where a new doomed mmo was released every week and you could spend hundreds of dollars jumping into each of them for a month and a half I could set my list of those mmos to the Animaniacs countries of the world song.
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Jun 8, 2021 15:28
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CuddleCryptid posted:I could set my list of those mmos to the Animaniacs countries of the world song. Go on..
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Jun 8, 2021 15:37
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I still wished I had completed the random quest in age of wushu where I was grabbing pieces of a map out of a horses rear end.
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Jun 8, 2021 15:41
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Groovelord Neato posted:There's another game that captures the feeling of the old Zeldas much better than BOTW What’s that?
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Jun 8, 2021 16:24
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Yes, it's true, games requiring both "wolves and sheep" to function no longer really exist or survive anymore. However, that should be a pretty good indicator that nobody actually wants (or wanted) to play the sheep. It's why Trammel was so popular despite the PvP curmudgeons holding it up as the worst thing to ever happen to MMOs.
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Jun 8, 2021 17:22
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CuddleCryptid posted:Just bring back the mid/late 2000s where a new doomed mmo was released every week and you could spend hundreds of dollars jumping into each of them for a month and a half I also want to go back to this era because companies were just throwing ideas against the wall to see what would stick. Every game wasn't Just Another WoW Clone; there were some genuinely interesting and different attempts at creating games with truly unique settings and gameplay.
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Jun 8, 2021 17:23
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Sachant posted:Yes, it's true, games requiring both "wolves and sheep" to function no longer really exist or survive anymore. However, that should be a pretty good indicator that nobody actually wants (or wanted) to play the sheep. It's why Trammel was so popular despite the PvP curmudgeons holding it up as the worst thing to ever happen to MMOs. It's kind of a weird bag because if you look at something like Eve, the people in the highsec and lowsec areas are effectively playing two entirely different games that don't intersect. When you have games that do intersect with full PvP, the most common complaint is that the fights are basically never fair, it's just a long series of people getting jumped by someone they had no way to fight. Which, yes, all is fair in love and warcraft, but it is frustrating for people who do not have as deep of an understanding of the game, and those players are who keep the game alive. There's a reason why things like ranked PvP areas exist, to create fights on equal ground. And yeah, it can be exciting to fight a real PvP battle in the wild, and there is a sadistic thrill to killing newbies. But a lot of times what cements the fun of pvp in mmos is the social aspect, the *deception*. Talking someone into fighting you in a way that is advantageous is harder than just smacking newbies around. There's a reason why memes like baiting newbies into the Runescape wilderness is a thing.
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Jun 8, 2021 17:29
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CuddleCryptid posted:It's kind of a weird bag because if you look at something like Eve, the people in the highsec and lowsec areas are effectively playing two entirely different games that don't intersect. When you have games that do intersect with full PvP, the most common complaint is that the fights are basically never fair, it's just a long series of people getting jumped by someone they had no way to fight. Which, yes, all is fair in love and warcraft, but it is frustrating for people who do not have as deep of an understanding of the game, and those players are who keep the game alive.
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Jun 8, 2021 17:40
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It's why I'm a little disappointed that solo is just a wow competitor. You have a setting where there are clearly defined power levels and punishments for ganking less powerful foes, etc. I want to see some really weird poo poo done with that.
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Jun 8, 2021 17:48
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Age of Wushu was the closest thing to wolves and sheep I have seen for awhile. Every PvE function had a PvP component.
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Jun 8, 2021 18:05
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Sea of Thieves is the only game I can think of that has anything even close to resembling the old sheep being forced to play with wolves dynamic of UO.
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Jun 8, 2021 19:36
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kirbysuperstar posted:It didn't and it wasn't. While you didn't just sit there auto-attacking 80% of the time and mashing gear swap macros the other 20% of the time like in XI, it was still slowly paced, with very limited movement in battle. The overall philosophy of the game of presenting little information to the player as a design choice to encourage player interaction was also very XI-like. But yeah, on its face the stamina/TP mechanics weren't like XI at all and there were a lot more cooldowns to use, that's true.
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Jun 8, 2021 20:11
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I'd want an MMO like Final Fantasy XIV. But for the entire area outside of towns to be like Eureka or Bozjna. The area is hostile and it's best to band with people to survive. Actually trekking from town to town is can even be an ordeal. The world should be dangerous and threatening. On the map people can engage in instances to not only trigger bosses but also specific quests that are deep "side content" that the series is known for. The game also won't have a map telling you exactly where to go. It could be like Breath of the Wild in which while there is a marker, it doesn't show the entire play area. Once the map is filled up future quests should do there best to avoid markers and instead tell the general areas where people are, but make said people easy to find. That would at least be a start for me.
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Jun 8, 2021 20:42
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punk rebel ecks posted:I'd want an MMO like Final Fantasy XIV. I'm having a hard time visualizing this. So the game is third person like Botw but has a map that people click to on to go into instances?
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Jun 8, 2021 22:57
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idk man what do you do when there's nobody to help you leave the town you started in?
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Jun 8, 2021 23:28
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I will say that figuring out how to let friends at seriously different power levels play together without making the more powerful player feel like they're having to choose between "really" playing the game and helping their friend, while still providing an actual feeling of advancement, might be impossible but is probably a prerequisite to making an MMO anybody wants to play in 2021.
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Jun 8, 2021 23:30
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30.5 Days posted:idk man what do you do when there's nobody to help you leave the town you started in? Catfish a higher level player obviously?
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Jun 8, 2021 23:50
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CuddleCryptid posted:Catfish a higher level player obviously? Pretend to be a girl and let some desperate guy powerlevel you. 30.5 Days posted:I will say that figuring out how to let friends at seriously different power levels play together without making the more powerful player feel like they're having to choose between "really" playing the game and helping their friend, while still providing an actual feeling of advancement, might be impossible but is probably a prerequisite to making an MMO anybody wants to play in 2021. This could be solved by eliminating levels. If everyone starts at the end-game, nobody has to be left out.
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Jun 9, 2021 00:26
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30.5 Days posted:idk man what do you do when there's nobody to help you leave the town you started in? Same thing as Eureka/Bozja, you can definitely get by just by yourself. However, I lot of people in the world just like to hang around the area for fun. 30.5 Days posted:I will say that figuring out how to let friends at seriously different power levels play together without making the more powerful player feel like they're having to choose between "really" playing the game and helping their friend, while still providing an actual feeling of advancement, might be impossible but is probably a prerequisite to making an MMO anybody wants to play in 2021. To be fair that's a lot of genres that focus on multiplayer. Ben Quebec posted:I'm having a hard time visualizing this. So the game is third person like Botw but has a map that people click to on to go into instances? No, just FFXIV but when you walk outside of the town seamlessly the map is like that.
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Jun 9, 2021 01:04
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Truga posted:my favourite thing about UO was playing with a friend and trying to find a place to build a tower once we saved up enough cash to buy the deed. we owned the smallest house before that, in a neighbourhood of many other smallest houses.  big feel on this post. what's most interesting to me is that you said neighborhood, and really, there were neighborhoods. on OSI you absolutely knew your neighbors, which is loving crazy to think about. you could have a mean red in your neighborhood who would gently caress you up if you were derping around on the lawn, and you'd have to zip inside and lock the door if you saw them running around. then you also had nice neighbors who you might make friends with and maybe adventure together. we didn't have discord and offisites like reddit and stuff so one of the only ways for a typical noob/pub to make friends was to meet them in the game, and chat with the text above their heads. you would go into someone house if they trusted you and sometimes, if you were rping a bit, sit down at a table and talk. sometimes they would put food and drink out lol. and whats so interesting to me, is even people who type like i do (trolls/edgelords/Gamers), would kinda rp a little. i would always have sitting areas in my house, or a hottub. guild towers had nicely designed duel pits on the roof. none of this poo poo was needed, purely cosmetic, but it was so engaging of the imagination that people just did it, even powergamers. there were so many aspects of emergent gameplay. on IPY, a shard by and for trolls, pkers, griefers, and powergamers i ran the biggest pk guild on the shard and caught a lot of flack for it on the forums. in an effort to be kinder to the server, which i have great regret in expediting its demise by pking newbies off the server, i built the Repo Depot and plunked it down in a house right outside east brit. Within the Repo Depo I'd take the armor, weapons, clothing, random lowbie junk that we got from pking people and organize it nice little bags and sell it at cost. often the same lowbies who we killed would buy their poo poo back lol. think about hats in UO. there were a lot of hats, they provided no armor rating but were very stylish. most players, even in official duels for big prize money, would forsake the armor rating of a helmet (leather or otherwise) for a cool hat. that's cool to me. my pk wore a jester hat, my duelist a straw hat, and my tamer/farmer a bonnet. Sachant posted:Yes, it's true, games requiring both "wolves and sheep" to function no longer really exist or survive anymore. However, that should be a pretty good indicator that nobody actually wants (or wanted) to play the sheep. It's why Trammel was so popular despite the PvP curmudgeons holding it up as the worst thing to ever happen to MMOs. This is a really contentious topic that has raged since the millenium turned over, of course, and we're not going to resolve it today - but i think given the long view, perhaps it was. im recalled that notion of "time to win" posted upthread which I too had never read and I find really interesting. Adding PKs to the game nerfs the TTW aspect, as if you really suck, or are just totally clueless, you can't just farm ratmen in safety until you can buy a castle. If you want to earn in safety, you had to be a tradesperson. People made their livings as blacksmiths, tailors, alchemists, carpenters and fishers among others, although fishing was quite dangerous and there were people who made their living as pirates on the high seas! This but one of many of economic implications of Trammel and all its descendants.
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Jun 9, 2021 02:35
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sorry UO is my trigger subject and i can wax about it for hours and hours and hours, pages and pages and pages. brain problem.
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Jun 9, 2021 02:41
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Smythe posted:think about hats in UO. there were a lot of hats, they provided no armor rating but were very stylish. most players, even in official duels for big prize money, would forsake the armor rating of a helmet (leather or otherwise) for a cool hat. that's cool to me. my pk wore a jester hat, my duelist a straw hat, and my tamer/farmer a bonnet. I used to dye my hats a color that I couldn't dye myself because it was a legacy reward so I'd hit up a neighbor for their dyes. I think it's the only time I've cared enough about my character's appearance to put in any effort.
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Jun 9, 2021 03:00
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This is some of the better content the thread has had in awhile tbh
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Jun 9, 2021 03:02
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Smythe posted:sorry UO is my trigger subject and i can wax about it for hours and hours and hours, pages and pages and pages. brain problem. keep goin
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Jun 9, 2021 03:03
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Smythe posted:sorry UO is my trigger subject and i can wax about it for hours and hours and hours, pages and pages and pages. brain problem. Go on. Honestly UO ruled. I kept playing up until DAoC and even still some after DAoC, and it was still great. e: did those loving jerks put out the New Legacy server yet. I need some UO in my life
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Jun 9, 2021 03:06
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the problem with most modern sandbox game is that they just put in full loot PvP and then did none of the stuff that encouraged socializing with people
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Jun 9, 2021 03:15
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For a moment I was there again.
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Jun 9, 2021 03:18
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Holy gently caress don't get me started on UO. I remember seeing the box on the shelf at Media Play (store that died decades ago) and I didn't have a PC that could run it. I busted my rear end working construction and at a convenience store to save enough for a Pentium 2 PC, 90hz, that could run it. This was at 14 years old. My buddy and I would play on the one PC all the loving time running from deer and trying to figure poo poo out, dying a lot. Eventually he got it too and we would spend summers at my place, 2 PCs on 56k praying the phone didn't ring until 5am, at which time we'd join the elderly at McDonald's for some breakfast. There's nothing like it, and will certainly never be recreated for reasons mentioned already. I have so many vivid memories and awesome stories of that game, and still have a good friend I met who is from Hawaii and I being east coast. ICQ was the poo poo back then. I'm looking forward to the new legacy poo poo they are doing, mostly because I need my UO fix once in awhile and it sounds interesting.
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Jun 9, 2021 04:03
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The last "massive human social experiment" type game I remember DayZ. And that ended up badly because developers couldn't figure out how to have players not kill each other on sight and instead just embraced it for the Battle Royale genre.
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Jun 9, 2021 04:35
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My first UO character was an archer/provoker which was great for farming dungeons but terrible at PVP, but I was in high school and didn’t know jack poo poo. A guild near my buddy’s flop house where I lived held an event where they created a huge chessboard on the ground made out of dropped clothing, with players for pieces. There was security stationed all around the board to ensure no reds PKd anyone during the event, and there must have been a few dozen spectators making bets. I was a pawn and got absolutely wrecked about ten minutes into the game, but it was a blast and I still keep in touch with some of the people I met that day. I once ran across a house way up a mountain pass, wedged in between two cliffs where a house definitely shouldn’t have fit but somehow did, named The Last Homely House, where a husband and wife RPd elves that patrolled the nearby woods hunting orcs and rescuing waylaid travelers. They gave me food and quoted various things to me in elvish when I wandered by. My pc could barely run the game, but my school’s computer lab had poo poo security, so a buddy and I installed the game on every computer and would spend lunch breaks taming wild horses and llamas and selling them at Brit bank to save up enough money to buy our own house. We never did, but it was a blast. For a brief stint before I quit playing (WoW happened), I joined an orc RP guild and had a lot of fun running around attacking random players killing orcs and shouting random jibberish about them being “bad hummies, no hurt orc!” I was terribly ineffective. Man I miss that game.
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Jun 9, 2021 04:38
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punk rebel ecks posted:I'd want an MMO like Final Fantasy XIV. I think this is basically Elder Scrolls Online, except without the punishing challenge so you can just solo everything. Or otherwise you're describing Everquest Freakazoid_ posted:This could be solved by eliminating levels. If everyone starts at the end-game, nobody has to be left out. Yeah getting rid of levels is a pretty clear design improvement IMO. Along with the GCD tab-target style of combat. They're relics.
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Jun 9, 2021 05:23
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