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SMERSH Mouth
Jun 25, 2005

I just really loving wish that I could set the rear dial that controls ISO on my X-T30 to cycle through from the autoISO settings straight to base ISO without having to turn it back down through all the higher values. It takes like six swipes on the dial to take it down from auto3, through all the ridiculously high settings, and finally down to 160. If only it cycled through and restarted at the end of the range instead of having hard stops at the last auto value and lowest L value.

A consolation prize alternative would be if the user could choose any ISO value (including base ISO) as the upper limit for an auto setting.

Also regarding the Mamiya 6 chat: I saw one at my local shop yesterday, 2500USD for a scratched body with just the 75mm lens. God drat everything is so expensive now. I’m sending in my Pentax 67 for a CLA because I’m locked in now and I want it to last “forever”. So glad I got it and a fairy complete lens set before good medium format film cameras became physical Bitcoin, but I guess I’m locked into the system now...there’s no way I’d be able to get anything equivalent to it for the price I originally paid.

I’d love a medium format rangefinder system but there’s no way I can justify a Mamiya 6 or 7 in this market right now. That’s why I bought a 2x3 crown graphic and a newer Fuji 105mm lens for a quarter of the price. Just need to sit down sometime and get the old kalart RF calibrated for that lens.

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Cacator
Aug 6, 2005

You're quite good at turning me on.

Yeah I've been shooting 35mm for nearly 8 years now and I only got into 120 last year so absolute poo poo timing on my part. I don't see prices going down any time soon either :( There's a consignment Mamiya 7 with one lens (I forget which but it's a wide) in a local shop and they want $5000CAD for it.

It also looks like the criminal underworld has taken notice:

https://twitter.com/ioegreer/status/1400915381527605248

Cacator fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Jun 5, 2021

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

Cacator posted:

they want $5000CAD for it.

Lol. Holy poo poo.

theHUNGERian
Feb 23, 2006

Cacator posted:

Yeah I've been shooting 35mm for nearly 8 years now and I only got into 120 last year so absolute poo poo timing on my part. I don't see prices going down any time soon either :( There's a consignment Mamiya 7 with one lens (I forget which but it's a wide) in a local shop and they want $5000CAD for it.

It also looks like the criminal underworld has taken notice:

https://twitter.com/ioegreer/status/1400915381527605248

Is there any way a California USA goon with a buy/sell membership at Fred Miranda could help?

Kaewan
May 29, 2008

codo27 posted:

So I went with the X-T30. Boy am I in over my head. Took me way too long just to get the strap attached, which I'm sure will cause heart palpitating anxiety every time I use it now because I wont trust it.

I know the Rebel line is for noobs like me but I wasn't expecting this much of a departure. Time to, as the old adage goes, RTFM

It is crazy overwhelming the amount of options they throw at you. There are a few things I’ve learned that has helped me tremendously in overcoming the learning curve.

If you hold the DISP BACK button it will remind you what the function buttons are bound to and also let you to quickly reassign them later on. Very helpful if you find yourself constantly menu digging for something specific. For example adjusting the white balance or film simulations.

I’ve also found when trying to teach my partner to shoot on a Fuji more often then not the Q button would accidentally be pressed. If you hold it down for a few seconds it will ask you reassign it no matter what you set it to. That is unless you set it AF-ON. Which would turn it into a back button focus or focus lock, much more harmless. I believe this requires at least firmware 1.10 or greater.

Also I’ve found Fuji is not good at telling you when enabling a feature will disable another. For example enabling silent mode will disable flash all together. So if you find yourself locked out of something it’s probably due something not so obvious.

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty
I have a Pentax K-50, and I want to get either a Prime 35mm or Prime 50mm lens.

I actually have a Prime 55mm lens and 35mm lens that will mount on the camera body, but they must not be compatible with the K50 because when I attach them the camera won't shoot.

I depress the shutter button and the LCD display goes black, but remains off as long as the button is depressed, and the shutter never cycles. This occurs in Auto, Scene, and Manual modes. The camera works jut fine with the kit lenses it came with, so I think it must be because the primes are old and don't have the electrical pickups for sensing F-stop. When the Primes are attached, the "fstop" setting on the LCD is blinking and has no value under the heading.

So, questions:

Am I missing something with the Primes I already have to get them to work with my K50?

If they just won't work, what would be a good 35 or 50mm lens to buy that WILL work?

tribbledirigible
Jul 27, 2004
I finally beat the internet. The end boss was hard.

Annath posted:

I have a Pentax K-50, and I want to get either a Prime 35mm or Prime 50mm lens.

I actually have a Prime 55mm lens and 35mm lens that will mount on the camera body, but they must not be compatible with the K50 because when I attach them the camera won't shoot.

I depress the shutter button and the LCD display goes black, but remains off as long as the button is depressed, and the shutter never cycles. This occurs in Auto, Scene, and Manual modes. The camera works jut fine with the kit lenses it came with, so I think it must be because the primes are old and don't have the electrical pickups for sensing F-stop. When the Primes are attached, the "fstop" setting on the LCD is blinking and has no value under the heading.

So, questions:

Am I missing something with the Primes I already have to get them to work with my K50?

If they just won't work, what would be a good 35 or 50mm lens to buy that WILL work?

I had a K-50 that died of aperture failure, and if those are manual lenses, I remember you have to set the focal setting manually. Also, have you tried the lenses on another body and do they work on those?

The 50 and 35 auto are my keep in the pocket lenses as they are super nice (and cheap) for street/ casual shots.

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty

tribbledirigible posted:

I had a K-50 that died of aperture failure, and if those are manual lenses, I remember you have to set the focal setting manually. Also, have you tried the lenses on another body and do they work on those?

The 50 and 35 auto are my keep in the pocket lenses as they are super nice (and cheap) for street/ casual shots.

The only other body I have is a K1000, which they work fine on. :v:

I can't find out how to manually set the Fstop manually in the camera, but I don't think its broken as like I said it works fine with the lenses that the body came with.

Would this be the good 50mm lens?

tribbledirigible
Jul 27, 2004
I finally beat the internet. The end boss was hard.

Annath posted:

The only other body I have is a K1000, which they work fine on. :v:

I can't find out how to manually set the Fstop manually in the camera, but I don't think its broken as like I said it works fine with the lenses that the body came with.

Would this be the good 50mm lens?



Found it on pg 265 of the manual that you can download here: http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp

And yep, that's the one.

longview
Dec 25, 2006

heh.
My Pentax K-3 III got here on Saturday, gotta say it's a hell of an upgrade over a 10 year old K-5!
Glad I didn't buy a KP last year, it doesn't look like a bad camera but this is pretty much a perfect upgrade for a K-5/3 user.

For example, this camera can actually automatically focus, even when things are moving! Still getting used to having a modern AF system with more than two useful settings (center/auto).

Only tried it with the 300 mm so far (which is basically the only thing I use anyway) and it does a great job tracking objects, and I can basically leave the camera in TAv 1/3000 & f/5.6 for anything outdoors since the new sensor has no major noise issues up to ISO 51.2k (subjective as always, but I leave max ISO at 144k).

I found out it has an AF setting where it simply freezes focus in AF-C mode if it can't see something it can focus on - really cuts down on the big full focus range sweeps the K-5 would do e.g. when it lost track of a bird against a clear sky.
Downside is I sometimes have to move the lens focus manually to get it roughly in the right area to start tracking, but I already had the habit of resetting focus to near infinity when walking around since the K-5 was slow to acquire anyway. Seems like it does a good job going from infinity focus to up close, but not the other way.

I wish it was easier to see which AF point is active in AF-C mode though, it's only shown using the viewfinder LCD as the little squares, no red blink like older models had. Can be pretty hard to identify the active point with certain backgrounds.

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty
While I'm tempted to buy a newer camera with the bonus I'm getting from work, realistically the K5 is rock solid for what I use it for, and I should be responsible and put the extra money into savings.

I am going to buy a new 35mm prime that has the electrical hookups for my camera, and use the old one exclusively with my K1000

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman
If you want something closer to full frame 35mm on a crop body there is also the 21mm, won't cover the full frame imaging circle though.

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty

Fools Infinite posted:

If you want something closer to full frame 35mm on a crop body there is also the 21mm, won't cover the full frame imaging circle though.

I'm a neophyte - do you mean using a 21mm lens on my (cropped) sensor camera will achieve a different look?

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman
The field of view (how zoomed in it is) changes with focal length and size of sensor/film, so compared to 35mm film/full frame sensor a crop body has a smaller sensor and the same lenses produce a more zoomed in picture.

Pentax crop bodies has a crop factor of 1.5, so a 35mm is 35*1.5 = 52.5mm, so it will take a picture with similar view to a 50mm on the k1000. A 21mm would be full frame equivalent to 31.5mm, so between a 28mm and 35mm.

If you mount the 21mm lens on the k1000 it would take a picture with a wider field of view, except it isn't designed to cover the whole size of 35mm film, so it would have black corners in the picture.

Comparing everything to 35mm film (also called 135 film) is just a convenience thing for people used to shooting 35mm film, and an easy way to compare results from different cameras.

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty

Fools Infinite posted:

The field of view (how zoomed in it is) changes with focal length and size of sensor/film, so compared to 35mm film/full frame sensor a crop body has a smaller sensor and the same lenses produce a more zoomed in picture.

Pentax crop bodies has a crop factor of 1.5, so a 35mm is 35*1.5 = 52.5mm, so it will take a picture with similar view to a 50mm on the k1000. A 21mm would be full frame equivalent to 31.5mm, so between a 28mm and 35mm.

If you mount the 21mm lens on the k1000 it would take a picture with a wider field of view, except it isn't designed to cover the whole size of 35mm film, so it would have black corners in the picture.

Comparing everything to 35mm film (also called 135 film) is just a convenience thing for people used to shooting 35mm film, and an easy way to compare results from different cameras.

I was looking for something that would be a good "take anywhere" / "similar to what my eye sees" lens.

I had thought that on a DSLR that would be a 35mm lens (which is similar to the "nifty 50" of a film camera), but would I be better served by a 21mm lens?

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman
People say the eyes thing about 50mm full frame equivalent, 35mm equivalent is also pretty normal standard lens. The reasoning I've heard for this is that it is close to the diagonal of 35mm film which is ~43mm. I think 50mm equivalent is a little tight (especially indoors) and prefer 28mm equivalent for general use myself (like most cellphone cameras), so 21mm is a good compromise.

Perspective is not a matter of focal length but the distance from camera to subject, but if you want a small subject to fill the picture you'll have to get closer for a wider focal length (smaller number), and if you get too close things can look goofy.

If you have a kit lens try setting it to one focal length for an outing to try it out.

longview
Dec 25, 2006

heh.

Annath posted:

While I'm tempted to buy a newer camera with the bonus I'm getting from work, realistically the K5 is rock solid for what I use it for, and I should be responsible and put the extra money into savings.

I am going to buy a new 35mm prime that has the electrical hookups for my camera, and use the old one exclusively with my K1000

The K-5 is still a very decent camera for many uses, especially for non-tele lenses where quick autofocus and very high shutter speeds (leading to very high ISOs) is not required.

The FA 35 mm f/2 AL is a pretty decent little lens that is (or at least used to be) available for a pretty good price, and if you ever want to go full frame it's compatible. Not crazy sharp wide open but gets pretty good at 2.8, and no full time manual focus override like newer designs.

Personally, I like the 21 mm f/3.2 Limited for a walkaround, the field of view is a nice slightly wide angle and the lens itself is a pancake design with a metal hood that makes it very robust if you like bumping into things like I did when I used that daily. Bokeh isn't crazy smooth, but I found it had an interesting look that I like.

Looks like both of those can be had for around $200 from Japan on eBay - I've bought a few of the "Limited" primes from Japanese eBay sellers with no issues but obviously your mileage may vary.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
I know that the thread title says to get a Pentax ME, but if I wanted to get something that's at least theoretically compatible with my existing F-mount lenses, what's a good camera of similar vintage/price to look at?

Edit: Actually nevermind, I just realized none of my lenses have aperture rings. Is there a reason not to get a Pentax ME?

dupersaurus fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Jun 9, 2021

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty

dupersaurus posted:

I know that the thread title says to get a Pentax ME, but if I wanted to get something that's at least theoretically compatible with my existing F-mount lenses, what's a good camera of similar vintage/price to look at?

Edit: Actually nevermind, I just realized none of my lenses have aperture rings. Is there a reason not to get a Pentax ME?

What are the differences between the ME and the K1000?

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Annath posted:

What are the differences between the ME and the K1000?

Don't know. I was thinking Nikon FE but this isn't an area I know

Leng
May 13, 2006

One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind


No other road
No other way
No day but today
Alright, reporting back on my Canon 600D with EF-S 18-55mm lens kit after a few weeks of use! I feel like I am dumb here, but after having watched a whole bunch of YouTube tutorials on how to use the EF-S 18-55mm lens, I am still stumped as to why I have trouble framing my videos as medium shots in some locations and no trouble in others.

Case in point: I shot videos in two locations today - the first was at my desk and the second was sitting on the rug. I was trying to go for a medium shot in both, however all of the footage shot at the desk is blurry while the one shot from the rug was crisp and framed exactly as I wanted. I used the same camera settings for both locations and they are literally adjacent to each other in the same room.

If I had to hazard a guess, maybe I wasn't sitting far away enough from the camera while I was at my desk? I didn't exactly measure distances but I'm normally reasonably good at eyeballing stuff and the distance between me and the camera was about the same in both cases. Or is it maybe because I'm not sitting far enough in front of stuff in the background? When I was sitting on the carpet, I had about 50cm between me and the background, while it was more like 35 cm when I was sitting at the desk. I didn't think that would be enough to make such a big difference though.

:confused:

Megabound
Oct 20, 2012

dupersaurus posted:

I know that the thread title says to get a Pentax ME, but if I wanted to get something that's at least theoretically compatible with my existing F-mount lenses, what's a good camera of similar vintage/price to look at?

Edit: Actually nevermind, I just realized none of my lenses have aperture rings. Is there a reason not to get a Pentax ME?

The ME Super has a full manual mode while the ME is aperture priority only.

barnold
Dec 16, 2011


what do u do when yuo're born to play fps? guess there's nothing left to do but play fps. boom headshot
Potentially esoteric question for filthy DV touchers, if this thread is appropriate for it: recently just took possession of two Sony cameras that shoot on miniDV/DVCAM (DCR-HC20, DSR-PD170). I don't have an A/C adapter for the DSR but I've been loving around with the Handycam shooting in 4:3 with NightShot on just for fun. In the bundle of gear came a bunch of unsealed but otherwise brand new, unused Sony-branded DVCAM tapes. In one instance last night, I recorded about ~5mins of footage, rewound the tape, played it back, captured it to my PC via a capture card, and after that 5 minutes of footage ended, it was as if the tape completely lost its tracking. I was unable to rewind or fast forward the tape, and according to the counter on the camera's LCD, the tape was at the 0:00:00 position.

I went back to record mode, recorded another minute or so of footage, and when I went back to play mode, it let me rewind the tape to the beginning of that one minute section. But while I was playing it back, it suddenly stopped and showed the blank blue screen about 20 seconds in. Just wondering how likely it is that the tape itself has deteriorated vs. the tape deck in the camera itself perhaps erroneously activating the erase head while playing back? I'm honestly not super familiar with DV as I went directly from shooting analog Hi8 to shooting on SD cards back in the day. For what it's worth, I've tried other tapes and can playback and rewind with seemingly no problem, but if it's a potential issue with the deck I'd rather not stress it as much as I can til I can figure out what might be going on.

Anyway I know this subforum is mostly for photography but this seems like the best thread for this question as I'm not sure there's a camcorder thread in tyool 2021. But if there's a better place to ask, I'm all ears!

barnold fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jun 11, 2021

BetterLekNextTime
Jul 22, 2008

It's all a matter of perspective...
Grimey Drawer

barnold posted:

Potentially esoteric question for filthy DV touchers, if this thread is appropriate for it: recently just took possession of two Sony cameras that shoot on miniDV/DVCAM (DCR-HC20, DSR-PD170). I don't have an A/C adapter for the DSR but I've been loving around with the Handycam shooting in 4:3 with NightShot on just for fun. In the bundle of gear came a bunch of unsealed but otherwise brand new, unused Sony-branded DVCAM tapes. In one instance last night, I recorded about ~5mins of footage, rewound the tape, played it back, captured it to my PC via a capture card, and after that 5 minutes of footage ended, it was as if the tape completely lost its tracking. I was unable to rewind or fast forward the tape, and according to the counter on the camera's LCD, the tape was at the 0:00:00 position.

I went back to record mode, recorded another minute or so of footage, and when I went back to play mode, it let me rewind the tape to the beginning of that one minute section. But while I was playing it back, it suddenly stopped and showed the blank blue screen about 20 seconds in. Just wondering how likely it is that the tape itself has deteriorated vs. the tape deck in the camera itself perhaps erroneously activating the erase head while playing back? I'm honestly not super familiar with DV as I went directly from shooting analog Hi8 to shooting on SD cards back in the day. For what it's worth, I've tried other tapes and can playback and rewind with seemingly no problem, but if it's a potential issue with the deck I'd rather not stress it as much as I can til I can figure out what might be going on.

Anyway I know this subforum is mostly for photography but this seems like the best thread for this question as I'm not sure there's a camcorder thread in tyool 2021. But if there's a better place to ask, I'm all ears!

ugh, you're giving me flashback to a research project where we had hundreds of mini DV tapes... Not sure what to recommend for that tape but you should definitely get a head cleaner tape to run in the cameras.

barnold
Dec 16, 2011


what do u do when yuo're born to play fps? guess there's nothing left to do but play fps. boom headshot
Good call on the cleaner tape. I thought about it and it doesn't make sense that it's a playback/erase head issue because the mechanism would have to know what position the tape was in to be able to do that. So I'm thinking it's maybe just an old tape losing its ability to store data. But that doesn't make 100% sense to me either, because isn't there a mechanical way to indicate where the tape is at? brb googling "miniDV control track" lol

barnold fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 11, 2021

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007


it's been awhile since I've done DV but I think several DV cam's will not show a counter when you FF/Rewind on blank media they just stick at 0 or whatever when there's no data on the tape
id' say rewind all the way if it makes noise like it's rewinding see what happens after a bit of rewinding.
Clean it.. and maybe the tapes went bad.. but not super likely.

tater_salad fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jun 11, 2021

Cacator
Aug 6, 2005

You're quite good at turning me on.

Cacator posted:

Yeah I've been shooting 35mm for nearly 8 years now and I only got into 120 last year so absolute poo poo timing on my part. I don't see prices going down any time soon either :( There's a consignment Mamiya 7 with one lens (I forget which but it's a wide) in a local shop and they want $5000CAD for it.

So now I've had a bit of a scare with my Fuji GS645S which ran into winding issues as I was finishing off a roll (luckily the photos turned out fine). Would I be better off grabbing something that says it's been overhauled or CLA'd to avoid any near term maintenance issues or should I just roll the dice on a Near Mint+++++ model that could potentially fail me a few months or years down the line?

Dr. VooDoo
May 4, 2006


Cacator posted:

So now I've had a bit of a scare with my Fuji GS645S which ran into winding issues as I was finishing off a roll (luckily the photos turned out fine). Would I be better off grabbing something that says it's been overhauled or CLA'd to avoid any near term maintenance issues or should I just roll the dice on a Near Mint+++++ model that could potentially fail me a few months or years down the line?

I would go with something that’ll last. Those same SUPER MINT+++++ cameras will also rise in price down the line so you’ll end up spending more probably

frogbs
May 5, 2004
Well well well
This is kind of out of left-field, but does anyone know of a camera bag manufacturer who makes shoulder camera bags that open AWAY from your body? Something like the Domke F-3x where the main compartment flips in the opposite direction? I realize this might make closing the bag a little awkward, but something like a fidlock/magnetic closure mechanism might make it work. I've looked around a bunch and haven't found anything.



Edit: Also, can anyone recommend any other made in-the-US camera bags other than Domke and PortaBrace?

frogbs fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Jun 13, 2021

Cassius Belli
May 22, 2010

horny is prohibited

frogbs posted:

Edit: Also, can anyone recommend any other made in-the-US camera bags other than Domke and PortaBrace?

Tough Traveler?

There are a couple well-regarded leatherworking companies making camera bags, too, but that gets really expensive really fast. Seems like mostly a fashion thing, even as tough and well-built as the bags can be.

Wild EEPROM
Jul 29, 2011


oh, my, god. Becky, look at her bitrate.
Buy a billingham and wear it backwards

Slotducks
Oct 16, 2008

Nobody puts Phil in a corner.


Any backpack recommendations kicking around? I need something to lug around my body, chair (MEC ultralight (https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5052-016/Ultra-Lite-Chair), 150-600 tamron lens and dslr body but I don't really feel like spending 200$ ++ on a bag lol

Slotducks fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Jun 13, 2021

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

You get what you pay for though. Cheap bags are cheap because they suck.

My current photograph+hiking bag is a mammut trion. It's not specifically a camera bag but it has the back opening which is all you really need. I got it years ago though, before back opening camera packs got really common. The dakine sequence is good too if you don't want a frame but I'm not sure how you'd lug a chair with it as the attachment points are limited.

Shimoda and Atlas are photography dedicated brands that might have something you can use.

Slotducks
Oct 16, 2008

Nobody puts Phil in a corner.


xzzy posted:

You get what you pay for though. Cheap bags are cheap because they suck.

My current photograph+hiking bag is a mammut trion. It's not specifically a camera bag but it has the back opening which is all you really need. I got it years ago though, before back opening camera packs got really common. The dakine sequence is good too if you don't want a frame but I'm not sure how you'd lug a chair with it as the attachment points are limited.

Shimoda and Atlas are photography dedicated brands that might have something you can use.

Sorry I should've (and subsequently have) mentioned that the chair is pretty small form factor, basically it's another tripod if that.

frogbs
May 5, 2004
Well well well
Has anyone here sold a lens to MPB? They offered me a pretty good price, and it seems worth it if they stick to it and there's little hassle.

BetterLekNextTime
Jul 22, 2008

It's all a matter of perspective...
Grimey Drawer

frogbs posted:

Has anyone here sold a lens to MPB? They offered me a pretty good price, and it seems worth it if they stick to it and there's little hassle.

I've sold to them twice in the past year and it's been good both times. They stuck with their preliminary estimates. The first time it took a few days beyond what they said for my gear to be evaluated but I think it was near some holiday plus covid so I didn't hold it against them.

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman
My personal experience selling stuff to them was much better than it was with keh. And they offered more than other sites and local craigslist prices for what I was selling.

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013




nvm

everythingWasBees fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jun 17, 2021

Graniteman
Nov 16, 2002

Same feedback from me on MPB. No issues with getting paid. Everything was smooth. Better price than KEH.

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xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

What kind of cut do they take? They want my name and address before giving a quote, so I don't want to do that quite yet.

But looking over their offerings for the 80D the minimum sale price is $570. Does that mean they're buying them for $300-ish? The highest priced ones are less than $100 off new. The prices seem pretty arbitrary, $620 for a "good" 80D with a shutter count of 84k vs a "like new" for $674 with a 4k shutter count? Jeez.

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