|
Remember it took Nintendo until their 3rd Mario game to invent iCache that allowed persistence across power cycles. Give CIG a chance, this is only their 1st game.
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 19:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 08:09 |
|
|
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrippingCarelessEarthworm-mobile.mp4
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 19:31
|
|
|
Play posted:This is definitely an exaggeration. Yeah it's starting to show its development age but it doesn't look totally awful. it's very inconsistent, that's for sure, and the assets are often very plain and boring but they don't look absolutely terrible for the most part. Plus generally MMO style games are given a pass to be a little less graphically fidelous (if that's a word) than single player games. This is a fair point. Star Citizen looks bad, but that's mainly due to bland art direction. Star Citizen should come in a plain white box with "SCIENCE FICTION GAME" written in sans serif black letters on the front. Thinking about it more, the more SC gets delayed, the more it risks being overtaken not just in graphics, but in depth of simulation as well. William Bear fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jun 8, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 20:34
|
|
|
Sarsapariller posted:It's amazing to watch someone try to fill such an absolute void of understanding. Do you think the remaining Citizens know that you can't just... make stuff up, and have it be right? Like, if you look at a car and imagine that it must be powered by four very strong dwarves who live in the wheels and run extremely fast, that is certainly an explanation, but it is stupid, and wildly incorrect. I want to know what it's like to live in the mind of a person who not only dreams that up, but immediately begins offering it as an explanation to others. Here in 2021 anything can be true if you just believe in it hard enough and spend sufficient time in your online echo chamber of choice. Insane, stupid explanations aren't irregular, they're the new norm. Hell, mutually contradicting insane, stupid explanations can coexist simultaneously if you truly want them to. We are living in Willy Wonka's world of pure imagination. I really think that these people proffer these brain-meltingly stupid explanations not because they actually believe them, but because the act of creating a version of reality that confirms their wants is very important. If they didn't act like they understood and try to get others to buy in, they might have to accept A) they don't know and B) learning what they don't know might force them to come to terms that the "game" they've "invested" in is in fact a sham. So they just go with tire dwarves, neither knowing nor caring if they're right, only that they have successfully created "facts" that fit what they wish to be true. Edit: This is to say that being in the head of one of these people is probably a very comfortable place. I doubt they even experience real cognitive dissonance.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 21:01
|
|
|
William Bear posted:This is a fair point. Star Citizen looks bad, but that's mainly due to bland art direction. Star Citizen should come in a plain white box with "SCIENCE FICTION GAME" written in sans serif black letters on the front. Hasn't it already?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 21:04
|
|
|
Deskeletonized posted:...the act of creating a version of reality that confirms their wants is very important... Honestly, it's not just Citizens who are guilty of this, we all do it to a lesser or greater extent. However, I think where the most committed Citizen diverges from the norm is in their apparent bomb-proof inability to be swayed, or to allow even an iota of doubt to impinge on their rock-hard belief in Crobblers. Truly they are cultists, and because they're neck deep in the poo poo, they fail to see or indeed smell it for what it is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 21:10
|
|
|
Jonny Shiloh posted:Honestly, it's not just Citizens who are guilty of this, we all do it to a lesser or greater extent. Anyway, SC is the most beautiful game ever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgUl1ZJfNHE Dwesa fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jun 8, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 21:21
|
|
|
If I see one more glamour video that's just money shots of ships flying in straight lines I'm going to scream
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 21:51
|
|
|
I don't understand game development, but on the topic of UE5... if Crobbler stumbles out of his latest blow bender and realizes he's about to get about to get lapped by teams of bored teenagers using out of the box tools, and/or when this project goes belly up and is bought up for pennies by an actual developer who will try to rush a finished product out the door - how difficult would it be to re-use the existing assets in a functional engine? Assuming that the ship models are the only things that are worth salvaging (and let's be honest), how difficult would it be to port them into something that isn't a hacked together farcry mod? (Leaving aside any network issues - I think we can assume that the best hope for any sort of release is a single-player mvp, Freelancer-style)
dieselfruit fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jun 8, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 21:58
|
|
|
Popete posted:Remember it took Nintendo until their 3rd Mario game to invent iCache that allowed persistence across power cycles. Give CIG a chance, this is only their 1st game. But Nintendo was founded in 1889 so it took them almost a century to develop that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 22:06
|
|
|
dieselfruit posted:I don't understand game development, but on the topic of UE5... if Crobbler stumbles out of his latest blow bender and realizes he's about to get about to get lapped by teams of bored teenagers using out of the box tools, and/or when this project goes belly up and is bought up for pennies by an actual developer who will try to rush a finished product out the door - how difficult would it be to re-use the existing assets in a functional engine? Assuming that the ship models are the only things that are worth salvaging (and let's be honest), how difficult would it be to port them into something that isn't a hacked together farcry mod? (Leaving aside any network issues - I think we can assume that the best hope for any sort of release is a single-player mvp, Freelancer-style) Mid-development engine switches have never gone poorly, just look at that time John Romero made us all his bitch with Daikatana, or the masterpiece that was Duke Nukem Forever, which was so good it stopped world war 4 and retroactively erased WWIII from history.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 22:41
|
|
|
dieselfruit posted:Assuming that the ship models are the only things that are worth salvaging (and let's be honest) Obviously you’ll be able to pay a discounted rate to use your ship in Star Citizen 2: Electric Boogaloo. But if you don’t have an original ship you’ll have to slave away in the rare crystal mine (that will be implemented later) for years to afford it with in game money. Buy it now! It’s an investment!
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 23:34
|
|
|
William Bear posted:This is a fair point. Star Citizen looks bad, but that's mainly due to bland art direction. Star Citizen should come in a plain white box with "SCIENCE FICTION GAME" written in sans serif black letters on the front. we'll be spinning up some servers to icache our server meshing soon which will be spinning up servers to fidelity and persistence because icache will let you spin up servers for the server meshing that transcends multiple zones of space and transfigures them into a single passable entity with save states that can be spun up by servers enabling icache so your interactions with servers aren't just save client saved but also spin up a server to save your online things to enable persistence through icache and this will in turn ramp up the production of content pipelines which will enable the servers to spin up more fidelity including free range economics and also probably eggs where you can pick out the individual hen and if you want you can birth the chicken yourself like dr hammond did in jurassic park but with dinosaurs which are also coming or at least that's how Tony Z see's it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 23:36
|
|
|
Deskeletonized posted:Hasn't it already? It never had any depth of simulation for the simple reason that it never simulated anything. And what it tried to replicate was done so by incompetent idiots who must have actively avoided any and all attempts at understanding what they were making. What it had was irrelevant minutia — negative-information noise that the devs and backers mistook for “detail”. And it was overtaken as far as graphics goes half a decade ago — even then, it was only ever just part of the general evolution, except it was stuck in a dead-end engine that made them unable to keep up from the get-go.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 23:40
|
|
|
You know I actually wish CIG was a little less incompetent so I could actually install this piece of poo poo and laugh at it myself. Instead, I'm actually worried about infecting my pc with this trash. Laundry lists of precise install instructions to subvert broken launcher functionality, random gigabytes of files filling your SSD, turning off windows security, removing copper pipes from your house and I don't know what else. At this point I would be worried that as soon as I install it, my pc case would shrink to 1/6th its size and start jittering and clipping through my floor. I know it's still the most boring piece of poo poo when you play it but man, the incompetence is just staggering. Despite following this thread for more than a year, I'm not sure I'll ever actually play it. And well, I guess that's for the best.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 23:50
|
|
|
Sarsapariller posted:It's amazing to watch someone try to fill such an absolute void of understanding. Do you think the remaining Citizens know that you can't just... make stuff up, and have it be right? Like, if you look at a car and imagine that it must be powered by four very strong dwarves who live in the wheels and run extremely fast, that is certainly an explanation, but it is stupid, and wildly incorrect. I want to know what it's like to live in the mind of a person who not only dreams that up, but immediately begins offering it as an explanation to others. but that's how the entire operation has conducted itself from day 1 they put out some videos, explain how the NEXT BIG THING is coming which will fix everything then they let the community take it and run. providing deep detailed explanation for how NEXT BIG THING works, how it's going to save the game, and most of all when it is expected (usually just around the corner) if anyone asks what the hold up is, someone in the community pops in with a totally made up scenario (remember when CIG had 2 copies of the game being worked on at once, and the 2nd one was the REAL game but they couldn't show anyone for fear of tipping their hand too much) the problem is the community as a whole is an incestious faction of people way too involved for their own good, so when an outsider steps in with a question and is met with a massive wall of text, first glance is like 'ok it looks like this guy knows what is up so it must be true'
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 23:51
|
|
|
Blue On Blue posted:Quoting from something Tom Cruise might have said 
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 00:03
|
|
|
DreadUnknown posted:Thats a lot of words to describe an issue thats been solved for loving decades, like thats how MMOs work. I know little about programming beyond using Gamemaker and watching some tutorials, inc. a video about data structures, but all of that seems like a horrible way to handle things. If every item is tied to a specific object and that object has to be in memory the whole time no wonder your servers are crashing constantly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 00:56
|
|
|
Don Gato posted:Mid-development engine switches have never gone poorly, just look at that time John Romero made us all his bitch with Daikatana, or the masterpiece that was Duke Nukem Forever, which was so good it stopped world war 4 and retroactively erased WWIII from history. On the other hand, both Daikatana and DNF went through some significant development before their engine switches, which probably meant they were struggling to reproduce things in the new engine and having to do a lot of work completely over again even before they got around to doing new stuff. Star Citizen wouldn't have that problem -- they haven't done much towards making it an actual game yet, everything that is there is considered only a placeholder anyway, and their teams already spend most of their time doing work completely over again and again and again. However much time/effort they lost in an engine switch would be absolutely unnoticeable in the years and years and years of "alpha" they've still got ahead of them before they can have anything resembling an actual released game done. Mind you, Star Citizen probably still won't be good, because it's not like any hypothetical engine switch is going to include kicking the upper management out and bringing in people who can design a fun game, or even getting the current upper management to, uh, design a game. But at least the engine switch wouldn't be the main reason it's a bad game that cost too much money and was way overdue.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 01:15
|
|
|
L. Ron Hoover posted:You know I actually wish CIG was a little less incompetent so I could actually install this piece of poo poo and laugh at it myself. Instead, I'm actually worried about infecting my pc with this trash. Laundry lists of precise install instructions to subvert broken launcher functionality, random gigabytes of files filling your SSD, turning off windows security, removing copper pipes from your house and I don't know what else. At this point I would be worried that as soon as I install it, my pc case would shrink to 1/6th its size and start jittering and clipping through my floor. All those things just aren't relevant anymore. Just install and play bro. Remember to press F on everything.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 01:15
|
|
|
It's bad when EA buying the game would be a net improvement.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 01:16
|
|
|
They still don’t know how they want the spaceships to fly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 01:16
|
|
|
I don’t think there is any doubt now at this point that Chris Croberts epitaph and Wikipedia entry is going to be the man who managed to take longer, and make a worse game, than the Duke Nukem fiasco. History will remember him.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 01:45
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:I know little about programming beyond using Gamemaker and watching some tutorials, inc. a video about data structures, but all of that seems like a horrible way to handle things. Yeah, which is why you use flags on a person's character account right? Like this flag indicates what ship they own, this one what hanger, etc?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 01:51
|
|
|
DreadUnknown posted:Yeah, which is why you use flags on a person's character account right? Like this flag indicates what ship they own, this one what hanger, etc? Exactly. A lot of items can be expressed as just "potions_owned = X" and when you open a chest that makes the potion counter go up by 1 and so on. Or you could make a list of items owned by the player and have that attach to a database. (That's honestly how it works in most RPGs, items have a number and the game checks to see what numbers are on the list.) There are a lot of ways to do it that would only create a graphical object with physics and such when needed, if at all. You could probably even program in a cap on how many of said item may be held by players or shops if you want scarcity to be an issue, it's still just tracking quantities which isn't as intensive.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 02:37
|
|
|
Its wild that people are ok with a MMO that can't handle players owning anything at the moment. If I re-sub to FF14 right now, my character will have all the gear they had the last time I played. They'll be standing in the same place.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 03:19
|
|
|
Or that people call a 50 player single arena map an MMO.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 03:22
|
|
|
CitizenKain posted:Its wild that people are ok with a MMO that can't handle players owning anything at the moment. If I re-sub to FF14 right now, my character will have all the gear they had the last time I played. They'll be standing in the same place. That’s because they have transferred things from the UNIVERSE PERSISTENCE to the PLAYER PERSISTENCE. I love this tbh. It’s so much more romantic than real development 
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 03:36
|
|
|
Play posted:I feel like the UE5 hype is a bit much. There will be a serious advance in graphics but I think it will more or less follow the same upswing that it has been on for a while now, not a quantum leap. The trick with the photorealistic rocks isn't even going to work in many games and also won't work it many contexts I would assume. Like for the player character. I agree. Most of the people hyping engines have no real idea of what a game engine entails or what exactly it does. The coolest things about UE5 and engines in general are the development tools. The coolest things about the new UE5 tech isn't how it'll let you do more polygons, but how it'll save development time and costs by making developers work less to optimize. That's cool, but doesn't sound very sexy. (And the end products won't really be very noticeably different, as you said)
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 04:46
|
|
|
dieselfruit posted:I don't understand game development, but on the topic of UE5... if Crobbler stumbles out of his latest blow bender and realizes he's about to get about to get lapped by teams of bored teenagers using out of the box tools, and/or when this project goes belly up and is bought up for pennies by an actual developer who will try to rush a finished product out the door - how difficult would it be to re-use the existing assets in a functional engine? Assuming that the ship models are the only things that are worth salvaging (and let's be honest), how difficult would it be to port them into something that isn't a hacked together farcry mod? (Leaving aside any network issues - I think we can assume that the best hope for any sort of release is a single-player mvp, Freelancer-style) Just pulling the models and getting them and the shaders to work in a different engine and render wouldn't be too much work. The problem is those ships are supposed to be more than just models to render; they have interiors and all kinds of complex workings. Things like the weird wall-clipping fidelitious elevators would have to be completely rebuilt from scratch in the new system, not to mention that basically all of the collision data could be really hard to impossible to port over and may have to be built from the ground up as well. Its doable but not something you ever want to do, it would be a project unto itself and require some budget for sure. Although if you're willing to ditch a lot, you could just use them as models and have faked interiors or something like that pretty easy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 04:52
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:I know little about programming beyond using Gamemaker and watching some tutorials, inc. a video about data structures, but all of that seems like a horrible way to handle things. I mean, yeah, but that's not even the real biggest problem with that block of text. As DreadUnknown said, this is simply basic sharded server persistence. Even given for dynamic servers and not hard partitioned ones, WoW has been doing that for years. That's not groundbreaking tech, and CIG still hasn't even gotten it working. The game is simply a Crysis Mod. Everything renders and you can run around and shoot because Crysis already let you do that. It does not do anything MMOs should because Crysis didn't already have code for that, and their mod team can't hack the engine into something fundamentally different in architecture. DreadUnknown posted:Yeah, which is why you use flags on a person's character account right? Like this flag indicates what ship they own, this one what hanger, etc? Maxwell Lord posted:Exactly. A lot of items can be expressed as just "potions_owned = X" and when you open a chest that makes the potion counter go up by 1 and so on. Or you could make a list of items owned by the player and have that attach to a database. (That's honestly how it works in most RPGs, items have a number and the game checks to see what numbers are on the list.) You use flags in the database to store their state, but the problem here is Star Citizen isn't even designed like a proper MMO. Things don't happen server-side as much as they should, the game is still running a fat FPS client where most of the processing is done locally and the server barely keeps up with what you're doing. FWIW, the backers don't know poo poo about computers or how SC works, and the game probably does already do lots of culling like you're describing. They have bigger problems though. All this is hacked together with duct tape. Popete posted:Or that people call a 50 player single arena map an MMO. This is the thing, SC fundamentally still isn't really an MMO, its just pretending to be one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 04:56
|
|
|
trucutru posted:Obviously you guys aren't game developers because, otherwise, you would know that persistence (aka saving your stuff) is one of those things that takes around 10 years to code. And that's for already-established companies, Chris had to build his from scratch. star citizen will launch with a simple password system for your character and account. just a simple array of ships, plus a feature to take screenshots of your password so you don't have to write it down.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 05:25
|
|
|
Khanstant posted:star citizen will launch with a simple password system for your character and account. just a simple array of ships, plus a feature to take screenshots of your password so you don't have to write it down. We don't have time to code-in screenshots. ship the game with a loving poleroid.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 05:26
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:This is the thing, SC fundamentally still isn't really an MMO, its just pretending to be one. Thank goodness they have Tony Z. who made a couple of single-player action games a quarter of a century ago. Clearly the man to bridge that gap. By the end of the year no less!
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 05:36
|
|
|
trucutru posted:How appropriate. You pledge like a fudster I have this vague notion of a character in a SCUMM game trying to sell me a ship, then I felt ripped off .... Hmm?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 05:40
|
|
|
dieselfruit posted:I don't understand game development, but on the topic of UE5... if Crobbler stumbles out of his latest blow bender and realizes he's about to get about to get lapped by teams of bored teenagers using out of the box tools, and/or when this project goes belly up and is bought up for pennies by ftfy It's always been the plan. (That and hiring Titanic to redo all the key binds)
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 06:01
|
|
|
Ah, I see. This really is just game development in reverse- they're doing all the shiny surface stuff and trying to make it all inhabit the same space. (Also is the whole "running most of it client-side" thing as much of a problem for PvP as I think it is?)
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 06:01
|
|
|
Trilobite posted:On the other hand, both Daikatana and DNF ...... Did not get the customer to pay for DLC before the game was even made. It was their money to waste as they liked. Now, to ask other people to give you money to do something you are clearly not able to do, and to profit from that, is very plainly an exceptional scummy thing to do. Chris Roberts is that kind of oval office. That what makes Star Citizen different.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 06:15
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:(Also is the whole "running most of it client-side" thing as much of a problem for PvP as I think it is?) Well it's certainly been a nightmare for every other MMO that's tried that route, and for every other CryEngine game with a multiplayer aspect
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 06:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 08:09 |
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:Ah, I see. Exactly. Maxwell Lord posted:(Also is the whole "running most of it client-side" thing as much of a problem for PvP as I think it is?) Well, its part of the reason why the game has a hard limit of 50 players, and also has implications for security and the ability to hack the game. In theory you could make pvp work fine with a fat client, but... yeah. There's concerns, and CIG isn't even thinking about them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2021 06:23
|
|