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Your Gay Uncle posted:The " you picked up your suit case" argument might be the most realistic depiction of an early 20's relationship ever put on screen It's absolutely loving perfect, I love it so much. My favorite is how this "adult" conversation resolves with them unironically going,"LET'S GET MARRIED! That will solve ALL our problems!  "
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Jun 9, 2021 03:50
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Ainsley McTree posted:I forget, do they ever explain specifically why Finn & Meadow broke up, whatever happened there, or is it just left to our imagination to figure out why the shaky relationship we got to see in previous seasons didn't work out Whatever happened there??!
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Jun 9, 2021 16:37
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I always found Meadow to be the most cringeworthy character on the show, and yea it's because of that phase she has where she's trying so hard to make everything she says sound so mature and adult, but she so clearly knows jack poo poo. It's amazing writing but I have a hard time watching it because of how awkward it is.
Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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Jun 9, 2021 16:51
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For some reason my memories of Meadow's arc from my first watch of the show apparently ended when she was volunteering at legal aid, so somehow I thought she ended up as a bleeding heart public interest lawyer. I was slightly off!
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Jun 9, 2021 16:58
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I think Meadow makes a lot of sense as a mob family character, and really shows how her mother became who she is, all the things you tell yourself and come to live with. to me AJ is the far more cringey one.
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Jun 9, 2021 19:23
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Meadow is Carmela Junior. Some people paint Carm as some sort of victim in the whole thing, and she kind of is in some regards because Tony is a monster, but she's entirely complicit in everything. Some of the jabs Tony lands during their fights land really loving solid, Whitecaps and the "butter wouldn't melt in your mouth line" in particular. Meadow rationalizes it all as much as anyone. I don't know if you call it willful ignorance, being spoiled, rationalization or what but you can see her evolve (devolve?) into a person that justifies the entire enterprise. To the point of painting all these poor murderers and extortionists as victims. It even starts fairly early with her "talking about this in front of an 'outsider'" line. Like Carm, she talks a good game but also, like everyone else, won't change a loving thing or walk the walk.
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Jun 9, 2021 21:13
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The psychiatrist had Carmela nailed when he told her the only thing she could do was take the kids and run, refusing to even take money for the session because it was in fact blood money. Instead she stayed and made Tony get her something nice.
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Jun 9, 2021 21:22
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It's a great scene, and also a splash of cold water on the viewer's face as well; because we see everything through the protagonists' eyes, and they're all deeply immersed in the lifestyle, it's pretty rare for an outsider moral authority to step in, take a look around, and quickly surmise "this is all incredibly vile and you need to get out right now"; everyone else is either part of it, or willing to entertain/tolerate it to some extent (ie melfi and the hungry horny priest), or gets murdered before they can say too much about it
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Jun 9, 2021 21:31
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If anything, Meadow has taken her mother's hypocrisy and sharpened it--because the whole time she's defending this, she's also not stupid enough to make herself dependent on a guy like her father. Jackie Junior's death was convenient.
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Jun 9, 2021 21:50
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Dawgstar posted:The psychiatrist had Carmela nailed when he told her the only thing she could do was take the kids and run, refusing to even take money for the session because it was in fact blood money. Instead she stayed and made Tony get her something nice. yep I remembered that scene but neglected to put it in my post but yeah it was just flat out on your face brutal professional honesty. That was, of course, ignored. People complain that shrinks never offer any real practical advice but when they do and it's something like "you need to quit drinking" or whatever, they don't wanna hear that poo poo. Halloween Jack posted:Jackie Junior's death was convenient. Especially since he was murdered by black drug dealers.
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Jun 9, 2021 23:46
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Dawgstar posted:The psychiatrist had Carmela nailed when he told her the only thing she could do was take the kids and run, refusing to even take money for the session because it was in fact blood money. Instead she stayed and made Tony get her something nice. Everyone needs at least one friend like that guy (its me)
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Jun 10, 2021 01:25
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codo27 posted:Everyone needs at least one friend like that guy (its me) Come on codo27 you just have a bunch of flunkies. They compliment you on your new shoes...tell you you're not going bald....
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Jun 10, 2021 01:34
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Basebf555 posted:I always found Meadow to be the most cringeworthy character on the show, and yea it's because of that phase she has where she's trying so hard to make everything she says sound so mature and adult, but she so clearly knows jack poo poo. It's amazing writing but I have a hard time watching it because of how awkward it is. Honestly, when described this way, this reminds me of myself as a college student trying really hard to sound smart. Yes it's good writing, and yes it's cringe and hard to watch because it reminds me of my own cringe years.
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Jun 10, 2021 03:44
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I think a fundamental thing that always seems to go unnoticed, that the Patrick Parisi / Meadow Soprano / AJ Failson upcoming generation is still quite a bit different than the previous generation. None of them actually end up inorganized crime, at worst they're adjacent to the mob, but the old school mob is fading out. There's better opportunities out there for all those three. In general, we don't ever see mobsters bringing their kids into the family business anymore, unlike what happened in earlier generations.
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Jun 10, 2021 07:01
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I don’t know if it was an intentional character detail but I always thought that the way Matt Bevilaqua (cheese gently caress) talked was him doing an over exaggerated impression of Tony Soprano because he thought that would impress him.
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Jun 10, 2021 07:07
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Kemper Boyd posted:I think a fundamental thing that always seems to go unnoticed, that the Patrick Parisi / Meadow Soprano / AJ Failson upcoming generation is still quite a bit different than the previous generation. I don't think mobsters not wanting their children to go into the business is really all that modern. And while they are out, you have Christopher Moltisanti as basically Tony's other son who is on the inside, and you have Jackie Jr. idolizing the life and trying to pull similar crimes to what he heard about the former generation.
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Jun 10, 2021 07:17
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Zaphod42 posted:I don't think mobsters not wanting their children to go into the business is really all that modern. And while they are out, you have Christopher Moltisanti as basically Tony's other son who is on the inside, and you have Jackie Jr. idolizing the life and trying to pull similar crimes to what he heard about the former generation. That goes back pretty far. Even back in the 60s, Michael Franzese's dad wanted him to be a doctor, not to get mobbed up.
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Jun 10, 2021 07:40
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yeah i mean Vito Corleone didn't want Michael to get involved either.
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Jun 10, 2021 14:36
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Ralph Hurley posted:I don’t know if it was an intentional character detail but I always thought that the way Matt Bevilaqua (cheese gently caress) talked was him doing an over exaggerated impression of Tony Soprano because he thought that would impress him. He's going by Drinkwater now.
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Jun 10, 2021 15:15
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Itt I want Paulie's reaction to this https://www.redbubble.com/shop/?query=sopranos&ref=search_box
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Jun 10, 2021 15:21
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In this regard the mafia is just imitating old money. Think of the people who made their fortunes by going to India or Africa and chopping people's hands off if the quota wasn't met, or the American robber barons who just had labour activists mowed down with gunfire. By and large, they don't want their own kids to be neofeudal strongmen.
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Jun 10, 2021 16:02
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Today marks 14 years since the original airing of "Made In America," by the way.
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Jun 10, 2021 16:09
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Dawgstar posted:The psychiatrist had Carmela nailed when he told her the only thing she could do was take the kids and run, refusing to even take money for the session because it was in fact blood money. Instead she stayed and made Tony get her something nice. That's one of those scenes that sticks with you for the rest of the series. It frames everything Carmela does after it. They don't dole these clear-eyed characters out very often. That shrink, the wallpaper guy Carm tries to have a fling with, Johnny Cakes, probably the only people who don't vacillate or rationalize about the morality of what the characters are doing.
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Jun 10, 2021 16:40
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Peaky Blinders does the whole WWI veteran gangster with PTSD/Taking over a city thing so much better than Boardwalk Empire. Speaking of shows Jerusalem should cover.
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Jun 10, 2021 17:21
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DarkCrawler posted:Peaky Blinders does the whole WWI veteran gangster with PTSD/Taking over a city thing so much better than Boardwalk Empire. Speaking of shows Jerusalem should cover. It's pretty schlocky but better than boardwalk by a fair margin
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Jun 10, 2021 17:24
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I binged that entire show in like a month and I'm still not sure if I like it or not
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Jun 10, 2021 17:36
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Meadow i think turbed into a Mob wife, but one that also does some professional work, but only because she orders to. Patrisi jr was already quite mob adjacent and presumeably with Tobys death his father would move up in the ranks. AJ probably got himself killed Jackie jr style once Tony died and the easy money dried up. Or he starts a career as a influencer. That would suit him well i think.
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Jun 10, 2021 19:16
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Yeah, gently caress no. Meadow's no dummy, and neither is Patsy Parisi. His son is going to be a respectable lawyer, same as Meadow. She's going to marry him because he understands this thing of ours.
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Jun 10, 2021 19:22
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Meadow's not going to be a respectable lawyer. She's gonna be a Mob lawyer.
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Jun 10, 2021 19:33
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What's that ancient Roman saying about money having no smell?
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Jun 10, 2021 19:55
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Halloween Jack posted:What's that ancient Roman saying about money having no smell? they used to collect a tax on piss retrieved from the public toilets and the emperor's son was like this is disgusting dude, and pep pep said yeah, but are you offended by the smell of the money it brings in? Pecunia non olet.
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Jun 10, 2021 20:06
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Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, gently caress no. Meadow's no dummy, and neither is Patsy Parisi. His son is going to be a respectable lawyer, same as Meadow. She's going to marry him because he understands this thing of ours. And Patsy wants a good lawyer or two in the family for when he takes over the DiMeo family.
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Jun 10, 2021 22:56
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Halloween Jack posted:What's that ancient Roman saying about money having no smell? A pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold.
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Jun 10, 2021 23:27
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uber_stoat posted:yeah i mean Vito Corleone didn't want Michael to get involved either. I don't think we can glean much factual evidence from a movie though. I honestly have no idea what big time mobsters want for their kids but my head tells me that they're rationalizing everything they do so "my kid doesn't have to turn out like me" and poo poo like that. They think drowning them in money and opportunity negates the fact that, for the most part, kids watch and learn from what their parents DO, not what they say. It's the whole, I'm gonna give them what I never had type of thing but, if I'm not mistaken, the mafia is rife with Juniors taking up mantles. Maybe not.
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Jun 10, 2021 23:36
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BiggerBoat posted:I don't think we can glean much factual evidence from a movie though. Reminds me of what I think was my final exam in high school english. The question was like "what can we learn about human nature based on the actions of[I'm gonna say this was lord of the flies, so those characters]" and in no uncertain terms I said "we cant derive anything about human nature from the actions of fictitious characters".
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Jun 10, 2021 23:51
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codo27 posted:Reminds me of what I think was my final exam in high school english. The question was like "what can we learn about human nature based on the actions of[I'm gonna say this was lord of the flies, so those characters]" and in no uncertain terms I said "we cant derive anything about human nature from the actions of fictitious characters". Did your teacher point out that those fictional characters were created by a non fictional author whose mindset and world view you could have analyzed by the way they developed those characters in the novel?
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Jun 11, 2021 00:05
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DarkCrawler posted:Peaky Blinders does the whole WWI veteran gangster with PTSD/Taking over a city thing so much better than Boardwalk Empire. Speaking of shows Jerusalem should cover. I actually started watching that recently. I'm only a few episodes in and: Ainsley McTree posted:I'm still not sure if I like it or not It has every component part that I normally enjoy in a show, but somehow it feels less than the sum of its parts so far.
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Jun 11, 2021 03:18
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Yeah, Peaky Blinders is alright but it also feels like Mad Men and Boardwalk where the story is just sort of meandering and doesn't feel like its really going someplace so it can start to feel samey.
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Jun 11, 2021 03:38
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pentyne posted:That goes back pretty far. Even back in the 60s, Michael Franzese's dad wanted him to be a doctor, not to get mobbed up. I can't remember who it was, but there was a mobster who was recorded by the FBI having conversations in his car with another mobster about whether they should want their kids being mobsters. He argued that carpenters want their sons to be carpenters, doctors want their sons to be doctors, and if they didn't want their sons to follow in their footsteps as soldiers, they were admitting what they did wasn't good. Not just morally, but that their work was shameful. Though I think the issue for Meadow and Patrick is that the Mafia just isn't as profitable as being a regular well connected lawyer from a good school. Risks are higher with RICO enforcement and the old Italian neighborhoods that were the essential ecosystem of the mob are shrinking. There's always money in criminality, but the old fashioned kind is shrinking.
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Jun 11, 2021 06:32
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Just wanted to point out that Puzo himself said that lots of stuff in the Godfather, including characters, were based on real people/events. And as far as mafia-style guys dipping their fins into legit enterprises, I think it's just a pretty common thing for all the reasons you guys have pointed out. Since history began, parents wanted better lives for their children (good parents, at least.) There was also the incentive of making money without the law being after you. Let's not forget we dropped the A-Bomb because Pendergast put Truman in the White House.
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Jun 12, 2021 21:01
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