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never done it but seen people talk about how re-roasting is basically impossible, you want your interior temp to go higher but you'll have burned your exterior by then
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Jun 8, 2021 12:59
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hypnophant posted:I’m not familiar with the zojirushi dripper but i remember the wirecutter’s review complaining that it made weak coffee. My guess is it’s not hot enough for the lighter roast you’ve got- if you can stick a temperature probe in the bed, you would want to see 93°-95° C for a light roast. Darker roasts can get good results as low as 88° or maybe a bit lower. If you can make your beans in a french pies or pourover setup using freshly boiled water, you might be able to salvage them. No idea about re-roasting. Great advice, thanks. The beans from this place have always been a bit on the lighter side, but I always used to do pourover (and occasionally French press) so it was fine. Ever since I got the zoji, his beans just don't cut it. The zoji does make a good, strong cup of coffee with the right beans though. I might try making a pot with the "quick" setting that's meant to use higher temp to speed things up. Failing that I guess I'll just finish them up with the pourover cone. I've got a baratza encore and I grind at a couple of ticks to the finer side of medium/middle/drip.
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Jun 8, 2021 13:30
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It is possible for coffee to be too fresh as well. If they were only roasted a couple days ago, that's very likely a factor and could affect extraction. https://clivecoffee.com/blogs/learn/is-your-coffee-too-fresh
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Jun 8, 2021 14:33
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Bandire posted:It is possible for coffee to be too fresh as well. If they were only roasted a couple days ago, that's very likely a factor and could affect extraction. Interesting, that's not something I'd considered. Though I think that's focusing more on subtleties of flavour rather than outright "this coffee is the colour of Lipton bagged tea and tastes like slightly dirty water".
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Jun 8, 2021 14:55
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betterinsodapop posted:Every now and again, I'll get this weird itch to buy a home espresso set up. When that happens, I'll come to this thread and find umpteen cautionary tales as to why I should definitely NOT do that. If it was my post that put you off it, I’ll have you know I’ve had great shots for three days in a row now after doing the dial-in. My problem now is easy access to the machine and wanting to keep drinking delicious espressos until I’ve had far too much caffeine.
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Jun 8, 2021 15:11
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Dren posted:If it was my post that put you off it, I’ll have you know I’ve had great shots for three days in a row now after doing the dial-in. My problem now is easy access to the machine and wanting to keep drinking delicious espressos until I’ve had far too much caffeine. Also: I don't remember who posted, but since watching my first James Hoffman video, I've really fallen down a rabbit hole of coffee nerd videos. I just can't stop watching them. Thanks!
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Jun 8, 2021 15:13
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betterinsodapop posted:Haha, no worries. There's no shortage of espresso machine/technique fussiness (not to mention $ expense) to make me feel intimidated. I cannot argue with this. It is fussy and you really have to hate your money.
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Jun 8, 2021 15:41
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eke out posted:never done it but seen people talk about how re-roasting is basically impossible, you want your interior temp to go higher but you'll have burned your exterior by then No, it's totally doable. You just can't blink.
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Jun 8, 2021 17:08
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Mr. Mambold posted:No, it's totally doable. You just can't blink. yeah i guess there's also the separate question of "just how much better can you make it if you do it right"? that governs whether it's actually worth spending the time and effort bothering i bet you can make something that's seriously green still significantly more drinkable for sure, but probably not near as good as if it was done right originally
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Jun 8, 2021 17:47
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I'm looking to upgrade from a manual grinder to an electric one in the near future. Is the Baratza Encore still the go-to for a good grinder that won't break the bank, or are there others worth considering? I'd prefer something smaller rather than large since I live in a shoebox. I mainly make my coffee in a French press, but I also do pour over and moka pot sometimes as well.
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Jun 9, 2021 03:09
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Sashimi posted:I'm looking to upgrade from a manual grinder to an electric one in the near future. Is the Baratza Encore still the go-to for a good grinder that won't break the bank, or are there others worth considering? I'd prefer something smaller rather than large since I live in a shoebox. I got my encore last year for my birthday and it's great. Before that I had a bodum that was utter trash and made me switch back to manual. The encore is relatively quiet, and pretty quick. If you're really picky about weights and measures, it might bother you because the catch bin isn't graduated at all and is fairly dark, and there's no timer, but if you're fine with eyeballing it once you know how much you use, it's fine.
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Jun 9, 2021 03:39
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Sashimi posted:I'm looking to upgrade from a manual grinder to an electric one in the near future. Is the Baratza Encore still the go-to for a good grinder that won't break the bank, or are there others worth considering? I'd prefer something smaller rather than large since I live in a shoebox. Encore will do for all those. Hang out for a refurb from baratza’s site if you want to save a few extra dollars
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Jun 9, 2021 05:15
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betterinsodapop posted:Haha, no worries. There's no shortage of espresso machine/technique fussiness (not to mention $ expense) to make me feel intimidated. That said, I'm super stoked for you for getting your set up all squared away! Enjoy the delicious espresso! I’ve worked on espresso machines for the last 12 years. I love the stuff but I would never recommend a home espresso machine to anyone. Espresso is just far too finicky and a grind setting that is perfect one day might be completely off the next if it’s a few degrees hotter or colder or it’s more or less humid. It’s one thing to go through a few shots dialling in each morning in a commercial setting where you’re gonna be making hundreds of coffees as day, but it’s completely uneconomical to do that at home. The alternative is to not dial in properly and just get your shots close enough but then you’re drinking coffee that will probably be average at best. Soft brew is just so much more consistent to do at home. My old man has twice offered to give me good home espresso machines he’s picked up cheap in auctions but I’d still rather just have a pour over. Obviously plenty of goons itt love it and I don’t mean to rag on anyone for their hobby. It’s just not an economical way to have consistently good coffee. If you enjoy it and have the money to spend then go for it but I’m a broke rear end barista. I also get all the free espresso I want at work so that also helps.
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Jun 9, 2021 05:22
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i like home espresso 'cause it lets me make decent coffee that i can dilute with a bit of milk without it turning into some gigantic monstrosity and occasionally i actually pull a god shot that reminds me how great coffee can actually be
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Jun 9, 2021 06:51
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it's cheaper and better than going to a shop imo but yeah, if you're wanting to reliably make great coffee without breaking the bank on mediocre/ok shots it's not the best idea
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Jun 9, 2021 06:54
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Finger Prince posted:I got my encore last year for my birthday and it's great. Before that I had a bodum that was utter trash and made me switch back to manual. The encore is relatively quiet, and pretty quick. If you're really picky about weights and measures, it might bother you because the catch bin isn't graduated at all and is fairly dark, and there's no timer, but if you're fine with eyeballing it once you know how much you use, it's fine. hypnophant posted:Encore will do for all those. Hang out for a refurb from baratza’s site if you want to save a few extra dollars
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Jun 9, 2021 09:42
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Finger Prince posted:I got my encore last year for my birthday and it's great. Before that I had a bodum that was utter trash and made me switch back to manual. The encore is relatively quiet, and pretty quick. If you're really picky about weights and measures, it might bother you because the catch bin isn't graduated at all and is fairly dark, and there's no timer, but if you're fine with eyeballing it once you know how much you use, it's fine. Or weigh your coffee before you grind it
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Jun 9, 2021 18:59
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Wafflecopper posted:I’ve worked on espresso machines for the last 12 years. I love the stuff but I would never recommend a home espresso machine to anyone. Espresso is just far too finicky and a grind setting that is perfect one day might be completely off the next if it’s a few degrees hotter or colder or it’s more or less humid. I think this is a total load of pretentious bullshit honestly. Half of the espresso I find around town, and I live in a pretentious bullshit COFFEE TOWN, isn't all that great. I can do as good if not better with my Breville machine and Baratza Preciso grinder at home, for far cheaper, and I don't have to put on pants to leave the drat house. And it is WAY better than Starbucks which tons and tons of people drink ever day. Will my espresso win any awards? Only at my house, but to say that it is impossible to make good espresso without spending a poo poo ton of money doesn't really jive either. Most people aren't looking for award winning espresso at home and those that do can gladly go down into the financial rabbit hole. The rest of us can still make drat decent coffee every morning and enjoy it without any issues
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Jun 9, 2021 19:01
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HappyHippo posted:Or weigh your coffee before you grind it I always wondered about that. Wouldn't the amount you weigh out depend on the beans you've got and how they're roasted? If you always get the same beans roasted to the same level it makes sense, but if you're getting whatever from wherever every week or two, wouldn't the constant recalibration pretty much be the same as eyeballing it, except now you have a number assigned to it?
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Jun 9, 2021 19:32
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Yeah, seems like it's about consistency within a batch, not consistency between, though with weighing it you will surely have an easier time dialing in the first few brews. Related! https://youtu.be/ipB6P1uzNYM
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Jun 9, 2021 20:12
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Finger Prince posted:I always wondered about that. Wouldn't the amount you weigh out depend on the beans you've got and how they're roasted? If you always get the same beans roasted to the same level it makes sense, but if you're getting whatever from wherever every week or two, wouldn't the constant recalibration pretty much be the same as eyeballing it, except now you have a number assigned to it? The amount of beans you use will change depending on what you’re using, but it’s not such a huge difference that you need to complete recalibrate for each bean, you can just decide if you need to use less or more depending on how your coffee turns out. Having a specific number helps make sure you can repeat those results. When I make a pourover for myself I always start with 18g of coffee, and I can do that every time, but if I was just eyeballing or going by scoops it would be really easy to accidentally use too much or not enough, and not realize it.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:13
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qutius posted:I think this is a total load of pretentious bullshit honestly. This is where I am too. There is really good coffee in my city, but most of it is mediocre to barely passable. So if I happen to be in the right place to get a really good coffee I will. But I’m not spending 30 minutes in a morning to go get a great coffee every day. I’ll just spend 10 minutes at home making a decent coffee that’s still better than Starbucks and all these other places that cater to the flavored syrup and milk with a hint of coffee crowd. Then I’ll grab a really great coffee when I’m going to be near a place that makes them. Too many people wouldn’t even have this option. It makes perfect sense to make a perfectly passable espresso at home in these cases. And after some practice and using similar beans for it, it’s not even difficult to get close to flat out decent.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:25
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Finger Prince posted:I always wondered about that. Wouldn't the amount you weigh out depend on the beans you've got and how they're roasted? If you always get the same beans roasted to the same level it makes sense, but if you're getting whatever from wherever every week or two, wouldn't the constant recalibration pretty much be the same as eyeballing it, except now you have a number assigned to it? I don't really change my brew ratio doesn't a whole lot, I moreso change the grind size. But regardless, say you're trying to dial in your new coffee. If you're changing the grind size, and you're measuring the amount with a scoop (or eyeballing the amount, which is effectively volume based), then you're also changing the amount of coffee as well, because the density of the ground coffee will change as the grind size changes. So you're really changing two variables at once, which is just going to make the process more difficult. And that's on top of the general inconsistency that comes with eyeballing the amount.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:38
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eke out posted:yeah i guess there's also the separate question of "just how much better can you make it if you do it right"? that governs whether it's actually worth spending the time and effort bothering Depends on if you have a roaster and have roasted a few times to get the feel of where the beans are going (insert fart-sniffing technique here). I've done it, nbd.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:41
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Jhet posted:It makes perfect sense to make a perfectly passable espresso at home in these cases. And after some practice and using similar beans for it, it’s not even difficult to get close to flat out decent. 100% agree. I don't really switch up the type of beans or the roaster I buy from, so there is very little variation from bag to bag for me. The roast details and the type of coffee you like can play a big role in success at home, I suppose, but for someone to flat out never recommend a home setup at this point seems way off base IMO
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Jun 9, 2021 21:06
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qutius posted:I think this is a total load of pretentious bullshit honestly.
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Jun 9, 2021 21:15
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Home espresso is fine but you guys should stop going to the cafes that have subpar espresso. There's so much competition now that you have to be good.
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Jun 10, 2021 00:39
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Okay yeah fair enough if you want steamed milk in your coffee then home espresso is much cheaper than paying for it at a cafe each day and you're also less likely to notice imperfections in your extraction if you're adding milk, so getting it close enough without wasting a bunch of coffee dialling in perfectly each day is fine. I still maintain that a pourover or other soft brew is still a much cheaper way to get your coffee (espresso machines are expensive) and is delicious black. Anyway I probably worded my last post a bit too strongly, didn't mean to dunk on all the home espresso enthusiasts. As long as you're all enjoying it that's what matters after all!
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Jun 10, 2021 04:57
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Absolutely not trying to pile on here, but as someone who's been repairing home espresso machines for almost exactly 12.5 years, the average American espresso drinker wouldn't know a good shot if Hoffman himself dribbled it out of his mouth and into theirs. The vast majority of the US home market is occupied by super-auto and capsule machines; semi-autos make up probably less than 20% and the machines/grinders gushed about in here (and other specialty coffee-centric forums) aren't even close to 1%. That's based on what I've seen coming into our shop over the last 10 years or so, and machines are shipped to us from all over the US so it's not just a locality thing (if anything, the local customers are a little more educated/picky). The real average espresso drinker just does not care about quality; they just want their morning drugs and they don't want to have to put on pants to get it. Wafflecopper posted:As long as you're all enjoying it that's what matters after all!
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Jun 10, 2021 06:56
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Mu Zeta posted:Home espresso is fine but you guys should stop going to the cafes that have subpar espresso. There's so much competition now that you have to be good. At this point I don’t know what good espresso should taste like from a cafe.
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Jun 10, 2021 14:58
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Mu Zeta posted:Home espresso is fine but you guys should stop going to the cafes that have subpar espresso. There's so much competition now that you have to be good. 
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Jun 10, 2021 15:08
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I had to ditch my old cheap home espresso maker upon moving to a country with different voltage and this thread has scared me off buying a new one  I'm not willing to pay $1000 for an espresso machine and care for it like a flesh and blood child. Guessing the next best option if I want to make something like a latte is a moka pot? I did find the critiques of those machines matched my experience -- it was just too inconsistent, once in a while I'd pull the god shot but most of the time it was either weak or bitter no matter what I tried. I do have an Encore as my grinder that I kept (I'll just get a transformer for that) and it does a great job as far as I can tell.
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Jun 11, 2021 12:16
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Thanks, coffee thread. You talk about Yeti insulated mugs, I now own a Yeti cooler. And also an insulated Yeti water bottle for my boy.
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Jun 11, 2021 14:13
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fisting by many posted:I had to ditch my old cheap home espresso maker upon moving to a country with different voltage and this thread has scared me off buying a new one So…am I reading this right that you owned an old cheap espresso machine, and it’s consistency was lacking, so the blame lies w home espresso machines overall?
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Jun 11, 2021 16:34
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fisting by many posted:I had to ditch my old cheap home espresso maker upon moving to a country with different voltage and this thread has scared me off buying a new one There's a huge gulf between what it takes to make perfect espresso and a perfectly fine latte. You can spend many thousands of dollars chasing espresso and still be frustrated, or you can get something like this for under $300 and still get a latte as good or better than a big chain coffee shop with a tiny amount of effort and a serviceable grinder. It really depends on your taste and if you want straight espresso or espresso-based drinks. Milk and sugar cover for quite lot of the difficulty in espresso making. The trap with espresso is there is always something more you can do/buy to make it a tiny bit better, and it can become obsessive and exorbitantly expensive for vanishingly small differences.
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Jun 11, 2021 17:14
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As someone who works in the coffee world I really don’t see the point for me buying a home espresso machine. As good as it can be, and it can be good the amount of money you’re spending mixed with the amount of time you’re going to be spending dialing in and everything like that. It just seems like a waste. That being said if that’s what you’re looking for by all means go for it. Otherwise I recommend just finding a good shop. Legit there’s nothing I hate more than battling espresso.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:31
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Leaving the house though 
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Jun 11, 2021 18:50
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I should also clarify to take my words with a grain of salt because I also own a 700 dollar stove top roaster.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:55
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Oh noes, just watched a James Hoffman video about reheating coffee and/or keeping it warm. He actually says something to the effect of "I hate myself for saying this, but I love the Ember." He also does make mention of the firmware updates. 
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Jun 11, 2021 19:13
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The_Rob posted:As someone who works in the coffee world I really don’t see the point for me buying a home espresso machine. As good as it can be, and it can be good the amount of money you’re spending mixed with the amount of time you’re going to be spending dialing in and everything like that. It just seems like a waste. That being said if that’s what you’re looking for by all means go for it. Otherwise I recommend just finding a good shop. Legit there’s nothing I hate more than battling espresso. I just think a typical home user generally wants to be able to make something approaching their Starbucks latte at home, and that's really not all that hard, expensive, or time consuming to do.
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Jun 11, 2021 19:14
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