The Road to E3 2021:

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The Road to E3 2021:

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Snooze Cruise posted:

yeah, lot of game devs i follow are really bothered by this

people kinda present it as like, subversive but i mean wholesome is pretty much a synonym of family friendly and as we seen from this direct a lot of people's idea of what a wholesome game is "looks like nintendo"� which, not very subversive imo. what you get is "family friendly" nonviolence and "family friendly" lgbt games.

Like Umurangi Generation coulda been on this stream and no one would have really blink an eye but labeling it wholesome would just be wrong because the game has an actual anti authoritarian bent. And you know probably some games on this stream had similar messages but when you lump it into this label that is more about aesthetics then anything it doesn't serve your game.

A lot of game devs I follow think its great and people getting bent out of shape about the specific language are awful as usual

Why are you overthinking this so much? If people wanna make cute games let them make cute games who caaaares. That's a good thing and if you don't like it don't watch it.

Why overthink it? Why the need to nail down what it means exactly?

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:04

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 09:25

Orange Crush Rush: May 7, 2009; You don't need thumbs for revenge

Did they decide to mix Rainbow Six with... Death Stranding???

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:06

Cardboard Fox: Feb 8, 2009; [Tentatively Excited]

"I know you have a lot of questions after watching that trailer"

Nope. Looks like Rainbow Six with aliens.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:06

Snooze Cruise: Feb 16, 2013; hey look,
a post

Zaphod42 posted:

A lot of game devs I follow think its great and people getting bent out of shape about the specific language are awful as usual

Why are you overthinking this so much? If people wanna make cute games let them make cute games who caaaares. That's a good thing and if you don't like it don't watch it.

Why overthink it? Why the need to nail down what it means exactly?

because stuff like this is imporant and matters
https://twitter.com/npckc/status/1392680662394499075
like npckc's stuff could have been on this stream and nobody would blink an eye. her stuff is soft, cute, and aeshtetically similar to everything that was shown.

nobody here is saying "no to cute things"
i love cute things. i love the twee genre of music lol.

Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jun 12, 2021

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:06

ymgve: Jan 2, 2004; Offensive Clock

can't be political if the illegal aliens are from space

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:07

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

I think it's more about the label and the fandom/clique that's attached to it and the drama and expectations that come with it.

I don't think anyone is saying "gently caress games about nice things!"

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:07

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Endorph posted:

like the reason its bad is because, if you didn't ask for that label, it carries a lot of weird expectations and weight to it, and the broader issue is that the wholesome direct said 'lgbt+ positive games' were a part of their specific direct, but a lot of journalism outlets reported on it as a requirement for a brand new genre of games, or w/e, so there's the push and pull of like, 'safe, cuddly' lgbt stuff versus weird and hosed up stuff, you know? some people present the former as more valid than the latter and a few people get really, really mad at people for making the latter, so some people are kinda jumpy about that stuff. like imagine if your kinda cute gay game gets co-opted as a wholesome thing without you really asking it to be and then you wanna make a new game thats some hosed up gay horror thing with gore n poo poo, suddenly youd have a whole thing with people saying you 'betrayed their expectations' or w/e, its that kinda thing

People are going to make weird demands of games regardless of how you market yourself, you just gotta be honest about what your game is and hope for success.

If people are getting mad about a violent game that has LGBT characters we should call that out as toxic and bad rather than hyper-criticizing people for calling their games 'wholesome' trying to get some eyeballs on their indie stuff over the AAA fest going on.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:07

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

I just want Rainbow Six Siege with working matchmaking.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:08

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Zaphod42 posted:

People are going to make weird demands of games regardless of how you market yourself, you just gotta be honest about what your game is and hope for success.

If people are getting mad about a violent game that has LGBT characters we should call that out as toxic and bad rather than hyper-criticizing people for calling their games 'wholesome' trying to get some eyeballs on their indie stuff over the AAA fest going on.

Nobody is mad that the devs want to call their own games wholesome. People are mad that the label is applied to their own games even when they make it clear what it is and also don't want that label applied to them, and they didn't like the perception that the event was conflating wholesome with lgbt representation.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:08

Orange Crush Rush: May 7, 2009; You don't need thumbs for revenge

Zaphod42 posted:

People are going to make weird demands of games regardless of how you market yourself, you just gotta be honest about what your game is and hope for success.

If people are getting mad about a violent game that has LGBT characters we should call that out as toxic and bad rather than hyper-criticizing people for calling their games 'wholesome' trying to get some eyeballs on their indie stuff over the AAA fest going on.

Wait, wouldn't that mean TLOU2 is now toxic and bad

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:09

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Snooze Cruise posted:

because stuff like this is imporant and matters
https://twitter.com/npckc/status/1392680662394499075
like npckc's stuff could have been on this stream and nobody would blink an eye. her stuff is soft, cute, and aeshtetically similar to everything that was shown.

The former is just people being dumb, but that's twitter and hardly exclusive to this issue.

As to the latter, I don't think a "wholesome game show" has to include ALL wholesome games any more than the "PC game show" has to include ALL PC games or an "indie game show" would have to include ALL indies.

Its just some games that are trying to get eyeballs by identifying that way. That doesn't mean other games should have to do the same, that's ridiculous.

Indie developers shouldn't have to change what they're doing because some toxic people on twitter said something bad.

Endorph posted:

Nobody is mad that the devs want to call their own games wholesome. People are mad that the label is applied to their own games even when they make it clear what it is and also don't want that label applied to them, and they didn't like the perception that the event was conflating wholesome with lgbt representation.

You pretty badly mis-parsed what I was saying there...

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:09

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Zaphod42 posted:

People are going to make weird demands of games regardless of how you market yourself, you just gotta be honest about what your game is and hope for success.

I think them rejecting the "Wholesome" label IS them trying to be honest and market themselves the way they see fit.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:09

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Orange Crush Rush posted:

Wait, wouldn't that mean TLOU2 is now toxic and bad

THE PEOPLE complaining are toxic and bad, not the games. Jesus christ.

mutata posted:

I think them rejecting the "Wholesome" label IS them trying to be honest and market themselves the way they see fit.

Sure, but obviously the people involved in this show feel the opposite.

I also think nobody is saying anybody should have to market their game as wholesome??

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:10

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

Headshot, thing explodes. "Stealth".

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:11

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Zaphod42 posted:

You pretty badly mis-parsed what I was saying there...

If anything, the one mis-parsing things is you? You're the one acting like people are mad at the devs for calling their own games wholesome, or the wholesome direct for existing. The person who made the criticizing twitter thread this entire drama started with is even involved with some of the games shown during this. Nobody wants anybody to change what they're doing or how they're marketing their games.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:11

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

The UBISoft conference is going now but I can understand why no one wants to talk about it. :P

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:12

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Endorph posted:

If anything, the one mis-parsing things is you? You're the one acting like people are mad at the devs for calling their own games wholesome, or the wholesome direct for existing. The person who made the criticizing twitter thread this entire drama started with is even involved with some of the games shown during this. Nobody wants anybody to change what they're doing or how they're marketing their games.

Two wrongs don't make a right. If I mis-parsed something then sure go ahead and point that out, but don't act like that justifies your own misunderstanding.

Sheesh, y'all are jumping down my throat here. Lets all chill a bit and assume positive intent from others' posting eh?

I said come in! posted:

The UBISoft conference is going now but I can understand why no one wants to talk about it. :P

Rainbow Six Zombies seems pretty lame yeah

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:13

Dr Kool-AIDS: Mar 26, 2004

This game looks kind of fun to me. If I can get a friend or two to play with, I might pick it up.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:13

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

I said come in! posted:

The UBISoft conference is going now but I can understand why no one wants to talk about it. :P

I kinda want to see reveals as they happen, but can't give two shits about R6.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:13

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Zaphod42 posted:

Two wrongs don't make a right. If I mis-parsed something then sure go ahead and point that out, but don't act like that justifies your own misunderstanding.

I mean, what part did I misparse?

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:13

Orange Crush Rush: May 7, 2009; You don't need thumbs for revenge

I said come in! posted:

The UBISoft conference is going now but I can understand why no one wants to talk about it. :P

All they have shown so far is basically Alien Swarm but it's a tactical FPS which is... something I guess?

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:13

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Jesus, Zaphod. lol

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:13

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

Combat Pretzel posted:

I kinda want to see reveals as they happen, but can't give two shits about R6.

Yeah they've spent 15 minutes on "squad zombie shooter plus recognizable brand" and there's just nothing to say about it

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:14

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Combat Pretzel posted:

I kinda want to see reveals as they happen, but can't give two shits about R6.

This kinda looks like R6 meets X-Com and is a first person co-op shooter. I like the premise, but is really not what I want out of Rainbow Six.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:14

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

This left 4 dead / killing floor game looks really boring and lifeless, so it�s ubisoft.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:14

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

What I really want is to know if there will be a new Assassin's Creed out this year. I was disappointed with Valhalla, and I hope the next game goes back to Odyssey's quest hub structure.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:15

Snooze Cruise: Feb 16, 2013; hey look,
a post

zaphod like you honestly sound similar to me as one of those people who says like, a game isn't political or something right now.

like you can look at this and just go "who cares, its just devs getting bent out of shape again!" But for these people making their games matter and they are trying to make statements. and they think the label wholesome is a counter to those statements

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:16

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

I said come in! posted:

What I really want is to know if there will be a new Assassin's Creed out this year. I was disappointed with Valhalla, and I hope the next game goes back to Odyssey's quest hub structure.

Origins was better than Odyssey and they should go back in that direction.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:17

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Ooh poo poo, Rocksmith is back.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:17

Babe Magnet: Jun 2, 2008

rocksmith is cool and my buddy's going to be real happy about rocksmith+

fitting that the survivor of the dead Fake Plastic Instrument rythm game genre was the one with real instruments lol

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:18

Assepoester: Jul 18, 2004; Can't post for 10 years!; Melman v2

Ubisoft is now Rocksmith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_e0dbZb54M

I said come in! posted:

The UBISoft conference is going now but I can understand why no one wants to talk about it. :P

Because it started with the mostly boring and derivative rainbow six spinoff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEect2g8B9Q

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:19

ymgve: Jan 2, 2004; Offensive Clock

haveblue posted:

Yeah they've spent 15 minutes on "squad zombie shooter plus recognizable brand" and there's just nothing to say about it

The pre-show stream also had DLC for Watch Dogs Legion, where you apparently can play as Aiden Pearce's Iconic And Now Faded Grandpa Cap

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:19

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Lid posted:

Origins was better than Odyssey and they should go back in that direction.

That is fine too, for me the two games were about equal in how good they were, and that is high praise for me because I felt both games were incredibly good.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:20

Cardboard Fox: Feb 8, 2009; [Tentatively Excited]

I'll never be talented enough to make music, but this Rocksmith game looks pretty cool.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:21

Orange Crush Rush: May 7, 2009; You don't need thumbs for revenge

Oh wait this is just Rocksmith but now a subscription service
Yeah uhh.. nah

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:21

Babe Magnet: Jun 2, 2008

THERE IT IS, tab view, holy poo poo rocksmith+ rules

Cardboard Fox posted:

I'll never be talented enough to make music, but this Rocksmith game looks pretty cool.

the point of rocksmith is literally to teach you how to make music, especially with all the new stuff they're adding

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:22

Fat_Cow: Dec 12, 2009; Every time I yank a jawbone from a skull and ram it into an eyesocket, I know I'm building a better future.

Hard Pass.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:22

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Cardboard Fox posted:

I'll never be talented enough to make music, but this Rocksmith game looks pretty cool.

I use to have an epiphone electric guitar, and really want to own one again. This would be a really good incentive to have a guitar again and play again. I havent played electric guitar in years.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:22

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Feels like the only audience for Rocksmith+ is existing Rocksmith players so you barely need to even market it. Most people won't care.

I do like Rocksmith though so yeah sounds good.

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:22

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 09:25

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

first, it's been 20 minutes and ubisoft has shown one game and one app lol

second.. i absolutely get why devs wouldn't want to have their games labelled or lumped in with wholesome games. i'm just wondering where that's happening. is it something that happens on social media? steam curators? does wholesome games' twitter retweet a game that isn't wholesome and that's what is causing the problem?

# ? Jun 12, 2021 20:22

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