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OneDeadman posted:I have a small mechanics question, if a evade dice on a page has "On clash win, +3 max to the next roll" how exactly does this resolve if the Evade dice is recycled multiple times? Ah, Retaliate. I’m not sure myself but it has done me much good. I’ve largely just been jamming, trying to pick key and attribute page combinations that work well with each floor’s abnormality pages. We’re at about the same place, it sounds like!
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Jun 11, 2021 21:47
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I got to Love Town. I was not prepared in every sense of the term.
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Jun 12, 2021 13:02
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Elswyyr posted:I got to Love Town. I was not prepared in every sense of the term. That is certainly a magical moment.
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Jun 12, 2021 13:18
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Oookay, I'm at Urban Nightmare now. I've got some general questions about deckbuilding. I feel like the way synergies with abnormality pages work, the best thing I can do is have each floor just be 4 copies of the same character (bleed/slash for Hod, dawn office cards for Malkuth, etc). Will there eventually be a reason to diversify? And how much should I worry about having every floor fully geared out with synergetic pages?
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Jun 12, 2021 16:00
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Elswyyr posted:Oookay, I'm at Urban Nightmare now. I've got some general questions about deckbuilding. I feel like the way synergies with abnormality pages work, the best thing I can do is have each floor just be 4 copies of the same character (bleed/slash for Hod, dawn office cards for Malkuth, etc). Will there eventually be a reason to diversify? And how much should I worry about having every floor fully geared out with synergetic pages? The thing with the synergy with Abnormality pages is that usually the pages in question aren't 'All Allies'(Hod's doubled bleed page being a notable exception). So having five blunt decks on Yesod's floor isn't any more synergy then having one blunt deck. And you generally want diverse damage types per floor at the very least, since there are a lot of fights that have several phases with different resistances that are all on the same floor. In general you shouldn't try to gear out every floor, you will only ever need to use 2-3 at once. Pick the floors whose playstyle you like the most and trick them out super well, instead of spreading your cards ultra thin making fifty different decks and key page builds. You can do that eventually, but in Urban Nightmare you don't really have enough key pages to make it work. Once you get to the next tier and start finding tons of generic key pages with two speed dice then it'll be possible, but even then you can start to have issues running out of combat pages. Arcvasti fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jun 12, 2021 |
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Jun 12, 2021 20:20
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Elswyyr posted:Oookay, I'm at Urban Nightmare now. I've got some general questions about deckbuilding. I feel like the way synergies with abnormality pages work, the best thing I can do is have each floor just be 4 copies of the same character (bleed/slash for Hod, dawn office cards for Malkuth, etc). Will there eventually be a reason to diversify? And how much should I worry about having every floor fully geared out with synergetic pages? Well, you're at the point in the game where archetypes start becoming a real thing, but at the same time one particular archetype is going to completely dominate the "meta" until the next tier - that being Blunt on Yesod's floor. Do the third and fourth fights of the first tier and append puppet pages to Emma's keypage to feel like an unstoppable god for the entirety of Urban Nightmare. Enemies start developing a distinct resistance to blunt in later tiers however, so this is a temporary thing that you should enjoy while you can. However, you're also at the point where parts of the game that will shape the entire rest of your playthrough become a thing - by which I mean Singleton and Yujin's keypage, which you will be using for the rest of the game. The second fight on the first route is the Index, who have cards that have special effects that trigger when there's only one copy of each card in a given deck. They're powerful on their own, but the really important one is Will of the Prescript, which is stupidly good and will very likely never leave your decks unless you're doing something specific with a character. Meanwhile, you can get Yujin's keypage from the first fight on the second route, which makes a very good case for being the best keypage in the game since she comes so early and remains very viable throughout the rest of the playthrough. There's plenty to love about her - she has a massive hp cap but starts each fight at 25% max hp, which means that she has amazing comparability with both Love Town's cards and later appends that restore a percentage of health. And later on when Love Town's cards start to lose their effectiveness you can shift focus to using her other major trait, which gives her light refund upon using 4-cost or higher pages meaning she can spam extremely powerful cards like Fervid Emotions and Rapid Gashes forever. Four Singleton blunt decks and Yujin will dominate Urban Nightmare and let you make solid headway into the next tier.
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Jun 13, 2021 04:36
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There are more options now than just Blunt now, though. With the addition of Kim you can make totally busted Slash decks in Urban Nightmare now, too 
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Jun 13, 2021 13:42
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TeeQueue, could you elaborate your thoughts on Roland and the color thing, what you said earlier was interesting.
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Jun 13, 2021 22:50
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TeeQueue posted:I will have to argue with you on one point. You mean this thing? If so-from my understanding he became a color after beating the pianist, because he took it out. He then proceeds to flip his poo poo, go crazy and kill people, and get demoted to rank 9 in what can only be described as a ruin your life% speedrun record, and as far as colors go hes hands down the weakest one we see and fight in the game. His fight is only remotely hard because he’s got the Library’s stuff on his side and Gebura can still pretty effortlessly pummel his stupid face in. Roland is not the most intimidating or effectual Color we meet by a longshot.
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Jun 13, 2021 23:59
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I'm pretty sure Roland was a color way before that and he was also completely full of poo poo about the whole grade 9 fixer thing. You don't just stop being a color.
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Jun 14, 2021 00:31
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TeeQueue posted:You mean this thing? If so-from my understanding he became a color after beating the pianist, because he took it out. He then proceeds to flip his poo poo, go crazy and kill people, and get demoted to rank 9 in what can only be described as a ruin your life% speedrun record, and as far as colors go hes hands down the weakest one we see and fight in the game. His fight is only remotely hard because he’s got the Library’s stuff on his side and Gebura can still pretty effortlessly pummel his stupid face in. As a combatant, Roland is way spookier than Gebura even in his first phase without any Library poo poo going on, it's just that you have access to the 4-light SOTC row 3/Impuritas dream team when you fight him. Trying to take him on with just SOTC row 1 stuff, like you do with the Red Mist, would be horrifying.. In-universe, Roland himself notes that a fixer's effectiveness is based on more than just being able to bash people's heads in good, when comparing Argalia to the Red Mist in her prime.
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Jun 14, 2021 00:34
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TeeQueue posted:You mean this thing? If so-from my understanding he became a color after beating the pianist, because he took it out. He then proceeds to flip his poo poo, go crazy and kill people, and get demoted to rank 9 in what can only be described as a ruin your life% speedrun record, and as far as colors go hes hands down the weakest one we see and fight in the game. His fight is only remotely hard because he’s got the Library’s stuff on his side and Gebura can still pretty effortlessly pummel his stupid face in. Roland definitely was a Color before the Pianist incident. In one of the early cutscenes (I think the Zwei 'brief on the Distortion' one) they state that the Pianist was such a big deal the Hana sent a Color in immediately to deal with it, thus he had to be one before it happened. And yeah, Roland is in many ways weaker than Gebura (who everybody recognizes as The Strongest) or Iori (who is a reality warping mastermind person and clearly a Big Deal even amongst Colors), but I don't think we can say he's a below-average Color based only on these two outliers. He can take down Argalia in a duel easily enough, and you might say that is only with the Library's power, but Argalia himself definitely has some of that Distortion Juice going on for himself by that point. And Vermilion went down like a chump, too. Besides, what we see of him before the rampage has him do contract stuff with that guy who is probably Pluto, so he's probably more subtle than just pure combat. Being a Fixer, and a Color, is more holistic an enterprise than base brawling.
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Jun 14, 2021 01:14
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Well that’s significantly less funny to me, but ya’ll have good points. 
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Jun 14, 2021 02:14
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Pretty sure Geb even praises Roland's strength and weapons use so like he isn't low tier by any means. When he rampages he obliterates a ton of things on his own so he had to have significant power to do so
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Jun 14, 2021 02:49
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Theantero posted:Besides, what we see of him before the rampage has him do contract stuff with that guy who is probably Pluto, so he's probably more subtle than just pure combat. Wait, that guy was Pluto??? What the gently caress?? Imagine getting so owned that you flip out and become the most powerful Distortion in the City and constantly whine about how "actually maybe reality is unknowable and we're all being deceived", all because you suck at reading! What a loser! Endgame spoilers: Alright, on my second run through the endgame I think I like it more. The Reverberation Ensemble was still mostly easy, except for Eileen for some reason. I was doing the challenge with the old page lock settings, and had Yesod's floor equipped with GUNS for thematic reasons, except they just got owned repeatedly. I had to swap out Binah's Hana themed floor to deal with her and even then it took several tries. Then, when I got to Elena, I realized that I could just have my gun team shoot her to death in 3-4 scenes, so I did. That made the fight a lot less annoying then my first try, where I focused on the Vermilion Cross and played defensively. Pluto was of course still tough but I did end up beating him first try, with like two librarians left. The Black Silence fight felt a lot harder then before though, I tried about seven times to get past his first phase without losses conventionally, and then spent like an hour or two trying to solo him with Tiphereth before finally getting her to the point where she could activate Nix. Still not a big fan of his fight because of how easy all the phases but the first one are. The duo fight with Angelica and the one where he splits into four dudes are at least cool though, even if they aren't that hard. The Keter Realization I breezed through in one shot after a few failures on the first phase. I also figured out a much better way to deal with the Ice Splinter fight: Spamming Tiphereth's EGO into Netzach's EGO really busts open the ice prisons, and isn't even that expensive or dangerous. This is now definitely my favourite fight in the game, between that discovery and the Hankering nerfs making the second phase a lot less annoying. Now just Distorted Ensemble left to go! Arcvasti fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jun 14, 2021 |
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Jun 14, 2021 05:47
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Arcvasti posted:The duo fight with Angelica and the one where he splits into four dudes are at least cool though, even if they aren't that hard. On launch, that bit was bugged so that Roland would use Black Waltz on all of his dice, which was hysterical in retrospect.
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Jun 14, 2021 06:19
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Friendly reminder: the first thing that happens in the game is Angela removing and replacing all of Roland's limbs. There were probably augmentations there too.
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Jun 14, 2021 09:40
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Theantero posted:Roland definitely was a Color before the Pianist incident. In one of the early cutscenes (I think the Zwei 'brief on the Distortion' one) they state that the Pianist was such a big deal the Hana sent a Color in immediately to deal with it, thus he had to be one before it happened. And yeah, Roland is in many ways weaker than Gebura (who everybody recognizes as The Strongest) or Iori (who is a reality warping mastermind person and clearly a Big Deal even amongst Colors), but I don't think we can say he's a below-average Color based only on these two outliers. He can take down Argalia in a duel easily enough, and you might say that is only with the Library's power, but Argalia himself definitely has some of that Distortion Juice going on for himself by that point. And Vermilion went down like a chump, too. Argalia is a Color too and he arrived late enough to see the pianist kill Angelica, which suggests to me that he was the one dispatched by Hana while Roland was merely returning there after his job with Olivier. I do agree that Roland is a more well rounded Fixer (he described himself that way to Gebura too IIRC, "a neat and sensible Fixer who rationally handled his work"), as opposed to the Red Mist focus on Unga. SITB fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Jun 14, 2021 |
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Jun 14, 2021 10:31
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Arcvasti posted:Wait, that guy was Pluto??? What the gently caress?? Imagine getting so owned that you flip out and become the most powerful Distortion in the City and constantly whine about how "actually maybe reality is unknowable and we're all being deceived", all because you suck at reading! What a loser! Is is eternally funny to me that Pluto is so poo poo at the whole 'The Devil is in the details' shtick that he can't even do actual word trickery, but has to resort to invisible ink like a chump. The man carried his inability to deal with contracts all the way to Distortion, despite his Skeleton Lawyer aesthetic SITB posted:Argalia is a Color too and he arrived late enough to see the pianist kill Angelica, which suggests to me that he was the one dispatched by Hana while Roland was merely returning there after his job with Olivier. Oh yeah, that's a fair point! Forgot that was a thing.
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Jun 14, 2021 11:53
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I just tried Netzach's Realization, and oh my god I was not ready for that final phase. Considering it a wakeup call telling me to do new Star of the City keypage builds.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:43
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Theantero posted:Is is eternally funny to me that Pluto is so poo poo at the whole 'The Devil is in the details' shtick that he can't even do actual word trickery, but has to resort to invisible ink like a chump. The man carried his inability to deal with contracts all the way to Distortion, despite his Skeleton Lawyer aesthetic Also PM did later confirm that yes that fucker is indeed Pluto. Roland may or may not have personally pissed off 90% of the Reverb troupe, as Tanya was also confirmed to be a member of the Rumanos Cartel that Roland decimated on his rampage.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:51
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I've resisted looking up complete builds so far, just suggestions like "hey blunt/charge/singleton/burn/etc is pretty good", but I'm at the third row of Star of the City and at this point I don't know how to progress. I straight up can't keep up with the sheer amount of poo poo being thrown at me anymore. I've done realizations up to and including Tiphereth, and I would love some suggestions as to powerful teams. In particular, I am stuck on every Row 3 Star invitation and Gebura's realization.
Elswyyr fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 21:11
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For the Kali fight you really just want to play kind of defensive, use Binah to control Kali by: 1. Using Degraded pillar to counter onrush or vertical sweep. 2. Break her infinite speed die with lock 3. Make her pay for using her big EGO pages by using the +2 light cost move. The rest should be handled by playing defensive with endurance/feeble( (very useful)/block, and letting fairy/bleed/burn carry the fight, as if you let Kali snowball via level slash etc you'll die. You should bring slash resistant pages, even purple pages are fine. There's no real way to stop the horizontal sweep in phase 2, but if you blocked enough and have slash resist after that turn she shouldn't have much light economy left and you can slam the feeble to make sure she doesn't get the 40 damage she needs to not stagger herself. Then you can go to town, or at least get her low enough that another floor can finish the job. After that Gebura can pretty much carry all the rest of the stage 3 SotC pages by herself as long as you have access to emotion 4 for her for manifest EGO. The thumbs make an excellent shoot deck since they have ranged pages that don't exhaust, and focus fire + ammo is very strong. Use bayonet combat and reload to get ammo + page draw, and use whatever light gen you want. Liu section 2 fixers make for excellent filler, Lowell is just a strong all-rounder once you get enough emotion levels. RoyalScion fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 21:25
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RoyalScion posted:For the Kali fight you really just want to play kind of defensive, use Binah to control Kali by: Oh, I already got Gebura, but I didnt know what to put on the 4 others with her. I feel like my big issues on teams is that my guys can't last, I don't have enough recovery or sustain to really get to high emotion levels. She tends to die before she manifests.
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Jun 15, 2021 21:30
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Use health hauler/mind hauler from the sweepers to keep your hp and stagger up, or the passives from the mei/chun that give you health/stagger on emotion up for page attribution. If you're still getting killed with those before you get emotion up you probably need to play a bit more defensively or take better clashes. You can put Myo's prowess on Gebura to get +5 power on her infinite speed die, that will let her get going a bit more quickly. Nikolai is always an excellent choice because mark is very strong and she gives teamwide buffs including endurance. are the fights you're having trouble with yan/purple tear/xiao/RRRv2 then? RoyalScion fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 21:34
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RoyalScion posted:are the fights you're having trouble with yan/purple tear/xiao/RRRv2 then? Yup.
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Jun 15, 2021 22:14
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Of the row 3 fights, I would say that the far right one is the easiest. It's nothing you haven't seen before, just with a fourth act--if you know ahead of time it's coming and save up powerful EGO pages, you should be able to lay waste to the final act in the first couple of scenes, before they bring their gimmicks up. Some of the new General Invitations added recently might help a lot. The Udjat passives and combat pages (1x SOTC + 2x UN to invite) make your floor a lot tankier when splashed, in particular. Night Awls (1x SOTC + 1x UN) gives a +2 pierce key page, which when combined with the Wedge Office passives and the fact that Will of the Prescript is a pierce attack, makes singleton pierce decks extremely strong. Despite being an Urban Nightmare tier page, Bamboo-Hatted Kim is one of the best clash-winners in the game with a Burning Flash deck. Remember that you can run the Strongest + Prowess combination in reverse too, by attributing the Red Mist's key page instead of the other way around. A +5 power clasher is an extremely strong combination in any floor, especially (RADIOACTIVE CHEESE WARNING) Yesod's, who has a tier II breakdown page that sets your speed to 1. The Strongest sets all of your fastest dice's values to infinity, which is all of them if they all happened to roll 1. I would say buffed Yesod is the floor of choice for row 3 bossing, now. Reiterpallasch fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 22:52
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Yeah, rightmost is probably the easiest. You can cheese the 2nd from the left pretty hard with gun pages, just load up the Thumb decks and the piercing/first turn dmg bonuses and pew pew your way to victory. If you do it the regular way it's a hard slugfest, bring what debuffs you can. Leftmost you want to clash with the buff cards, so the hands don't beat you to death, and all-in once they combine; it'll be a lot easier if you can stagger them the first time and not have to go to a separate phase. 2nd from the right you actually want to beat up the boss first to dodge the mass attack page and then don't clash with reverse scale until you're ready; you can whittle down in the meantime but you need to save for burst before you burn to death. Nikolai is so strong for any single target fights it's always good to bring it. Gebura is always a good pick but so is Yesod.
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Jun 15, 2021 23:42
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For Xiao's fight you can either sync up Reversed Scale with her power nullifying thing so she doesn't get the bonus, or go full unga and trigger every Reversed Scale with a sacrificial floor, then have another floor clean up the remaining like 20% of her stagger bar and finish her off. The finishing floor should have a smoke user(The Leaflet Workshop general invitation has a really good smoke keypage). I like Binah's floor for the initial floor, for Fairy/Pillar. For 얀샋ㄷ요무's fight, I honestly don't know a great strategy, despite having done it like a dozen times. The hands are tough opponents on their own, and Distorted Blade is brutal if it rolls high. Consider bringing along really strong summation cards like Rapid Gashes or even Overcharge just so you have something that can block it semi-reliably. My usual go-to summation blockers of Sturdy Defense and Concentration just don't seem to cut it against Distorted Blade. For the sharp snake fight I once again recommend Binah for the starting fight. Fairy is really strong against her, Pillar is invaluable against her huge single hits like Violet Blade or Duel and she even has a special version of Shimmering that makes Lock's special effect do something. The far right fight is definitely the easiest one, yeah. Once you're done with the firstAct you can usually use mass attacks to speedrun the next two. In the last Act focus down Maxim first, he's really dangerous if he gets to live. The upgrades to the animal friends you find from that fight are also ultra strong, and can definitely help with the other fights. For Gebura's Realization there are like three important things to know: 1: You can attack the Mercenary before they turn hostile, and in fact should, so you can use weaker light/draw pages without buffing up the Wolf by accident. This also weakens them, so that you can potentially kill the Wolf and then the Merc in the same turn, before they get healed and turbobuffed by Astray Rage. 2: The corpse party phase is great for giving Gebura a ton of power because it has so many minions to activate Absorption and Red Mist on. The final phase is a lot easier when she has like +9 power. 3: Have Nikolai and a source of Smoke ready, and don't give Gebura too many slash pages, and the final phase shouldn't be too bad. My default deck on her is Onrush and then two of each of her other exclusive pages, and that works fine for dealing with Nothing There. Arcvasti fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 00:44
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Arcvasti posted:For 얀샋ㄷ요무's fight, I honestly don't know a great strategy, despite having done it like a dozen times. More weapons-grade cheese: Skitter Away, a Rats card, has 2 evade dice followed by an attack dice, so it cancels out three of Yan's 30-30 evade dice. Play three skitter aways on your highest speed dice and he's literally defenseless.
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Jun 16, 2021 01:07
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Reiterpallasch posted:More weapons-grade cheese: Skitter Away, a Rats card, has 2 evade dice followed by an attack dice, so it cancels out three of Yan's 30-30 evade dice. Play three skitter aways on your highest speed dice and he's literally defenseless. This is amazing. I knew that you could do something similar with Learn or Disposal, but somehow using that particular card is 20x funnier.
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Jun 16, 2021 01:57
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We gotta help Pete reach his dream
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Jun 16, 2021 03:39
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Just unlocked Tiphereth's floor. So far I've been able to beat abnormalities more or less as soon as they're unlocked, but I'm guessing that won't be true for much longer?
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Jun 16, 2021 04:44
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Solitair posted:Just unlocked Tiphereth's floor. So far I've been able to beat abnormalities more or less as soon as they're unlocked, but I'm guessing that won't be true for much longer? You can do them as they're unlocked as long as you're willing to build a team around their gimmick. Some, like The Road Home, are complete assholes that might require you to not only shift around keypages but build keypages/decks specifically to deal with them.
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Jun 16, 2021 05:08
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And even then, Tiph's first abno is a noted difficulty spike. A lot of the stuff you get after isn't as bad, comparatively.
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Jun 16, 2021 12:05
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Gebura realization down. Row 3 star invitations are like dust in the wind before the Red Mist. EDIT: I was wrong oh my god Yan please stop Elswyyr fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 12:39
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according to someone translating the creator interview over on project moon's youtube channel, lobotomy corporation was inspired partly by zoo tycoon. i had never thought about games like that being similar, but it does make sense now that i'm thinking about it.
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Jun 16, 2021 17:17
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If you told me the Raven mod was from a DLC for the game or something, I'd believe it   It's a mod, to be clear, but that is an impressive emulation of style.
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Jun 17, 2021 01:50
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Wow yeah, that's amazing.
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Jun 17, 2021 14:28
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hahahah what the gently caress is binah's realization
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Jun 17, 2021 23:20
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