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Do you prefer the extended summer thread format? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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126 | 44.21% |
| No |
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39 | 13.68% |
| I'm Scottish |
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120 | 42.11% |
| Total: | 285 votes | ||
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Red Oktober posted:Starting to really wish I had waited a few weeks for Pfizer over AZ now, especially as they're not giving AZ to my age-group anymore. I wasn't concerned about clotting etc, but a 20% gap in effectiveness is not good. is the uk pursuing any heterologous vaccination strategies? the preliminary data on 1st dose AZ followed by 2nd dose pfizer/moderna are very good snipe: 42! pretty self-explanatory, really
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Jun 14, 2021 17:03
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I wonder what the effectiveness is if you get the first shot AZ then Pfizer e: lol, efb, but thanks for that I can pay the cat tax 
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Jun 14, 2021 17:03
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Just looked it up, because I had Moderna, and it seems that effectiveness for both Pfizer and Moderna are similar at around 81% 2+ weeks after first dose and 91% 2+ weeks after 2nd dose (as confirmed by real world data rather than a pre-approval study or whatever): https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210606/New-data-from-CDC-on-effectiveness-of-Pfizer-and-Moderna-COVID-19-vaccines.aspx
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Jun 14, 2021 17:18
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WhatEvil posted:Just looked it up, because I had Moderna, and it seems that effectiveness for both Pfizer and Moderna are similar at around 81% 2+ weeks after first dose and 91% 2+ weeks after 2nd dose (as confirmed by real world data rather than a pre-approval study or whatever): Unfortunately I don't think that applies to delta variant. The article doesn't specify that it included new variants.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:35
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WhatEvil posted:Just looked it up, because I had Moderna, and it seems that effectiveness for both Pfizer and Moderna are similar at around 81% 2+ weeks after first dose and 91% 2+ weeks after 2nd dose (as confirmed by real world data rather than a pre-approval study or whatever): Their data appears to come from the USA between December and April, so this won't be the case for the Delta variant. e; f,b
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Jun 14, 2021 17:38
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I am fully expecting everyone who had Astrazeneca to be told in 6 months time they have to get pfizer as well because it does nothing against the new iceland / omega variant.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:39
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therattle posted:Unfortunately I don't think that applies to delta variant. The article doesn't specify that it included new variants. the second dose is still quite protective for delta  both the mrna vaccines have had pretty similar results in all other cases so while this is discussing pfizer i expect moderna to be similar
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Jun 14, 2021 17:39
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I'm in for round 2 tomorrow so shall I maybe request a little taster selection of all three or just see what the maître d recommends?
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Jun 14, 2021 17:41
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It was conducted in the US between december and april so you could probably draw some inference about which variants they would be exposed to from that.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:42
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mediaphage posted:the second dose is still quite protective for delta Yep, am happily aware of that (we got Pfizer, quite by chance - would have accepted anything).
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Jun 14, 2021 17:42
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I got my first dose of AZ a few weeks before they decided to stop giving it to the youngs. Wish I hadn't had it so early now. 
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Jun 14, 2021 17:44
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Excited for the formation of a new class system based around which vaccination people got. Signing up as a downtrodden AZ.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:44
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If full vaccination dramatically reduces the chances of dying or getting very sick then surely it doesn't really matter if transmission stays high because you've reduced covid to essentially a very contagious flu - better if you don't catch it, but nothing that's going to cause a national crisis.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:45
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ThomasPaine posted:If full vaccination dramatically reduces the chances of dying or getting very sick then surely it doesn't really matter if transmission stays high because you've reduced covid to essentially a very contagious flu - better if you don't catch it, but nothing that's going to cause a national crisis. We don't know what long Covid does. You could end up with hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who have severe health problems for the rest of their lives, leaving aside the large numbers who would still require hospitalisation even if they don't die.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:48
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OwlFancier posted:It was conducted in the US between december and april so you could probably draw some inference about which variants they would be exposed to from that. That doesn't make sense - the US hasn't given anybody AstraZenica.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:49
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therattle posted:We don't know what long Covid does. You could end up with hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who have severe health problems for the rest of their lives, leaving aside the large numbers who would still require hospitalisation even if they don't die. My understanding was the vaccination reduced the intensity of infection sufficiently to mitigate the threat of long covid symptoms in most cases too
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Jun 14, 2021 17:54
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I agree with Miftan that Starmer is trying to appeal to the centre-groundists with his 'the truth is in the middle' tedium. And I also agree with everyone else pointing out that Starmer isn't appealing to anyone with his Schrödinger's Policy approach to leading a political party, the utter buffoon. Also, lol that Boris hosed up yet a-loving-gain by not closing the borders (gotta make nice with Modi, innit?) and his rimming partners in the press won't even touch the issue. [edit] And my employer is reporting rising numbers again, including of those requiring enhanced care. Wonderful
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Jun 14, 2021 17:55
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There was talk of the vaccine clearing up existing long covid symptoms, in addition to other infections and a user here's dad's verrucas to the point that their GP wants him as a case study.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:55
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The good news is that cases are back to up around late September but deaths are nowhere near that, still at baseline.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:56
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ThomasPaine posted:My understanding was the vaccination reduced the intensity of infection sufficiently to mitigate the threat of long covid symptoms in most cases too Szmitten posted:There was talk of the vaccine clearing up existing long covid symptoms, in addition to other infections and a user here's dad's verrucas to the point that their GP wants him as a case study. I had forgotten about that. I would still err on the side of caution as there simply hasn't been enough time for the longer-term consequences to become known.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:58
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I'm getting my first (probable) Pfizer tomorrow and won't be getting the second until 31st August so aaaaaaa.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:03
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I've grown a bit cautious about the whole 'long Covid' thing because there's no diagnosis, no agreed set of symptoms and it's what people always fall back on when it's pointed out that deaths and hospitalisations remain really low: "Ah yes, but what about the potential effects of Long Covid etc etc etc". It's really hard to quantify compared to other consequences (you're either dead or you're not; you're either in hospital or you're not) so I'm still uncertain whether it's a substantial issue or some vague boogeyman.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:11
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We probably need to just ready ourselves for the inevitable memory holing when everything appears mostly normal again, and the media starts putting out thunkpieces about how since it's all turned out ok,* was Boris' approach really so bad? * For them, that is.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:11
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Got me first vax today, worst bit was the queues, also the worst possible luck to have it at the same time as the Scotland game but hey.....
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Jun 14, 2021 18:12
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JollyBoyJohn posted:Got me first vax today, worst bit was the queues, also the worst possible luck to have it at the same time as the Scotland game but hey..... I hope whoever jabbed you was a lot more accurate than Scotland's strikers were
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Jun 14, 2021 18:14
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Szmitten posted:I'm getting my first (probable) Pfizer tomorrow and won't be getting the second until 31st August so aaaaaaa. Yeah I would really appreciate if they started second-dosing people earlier. If they don't have enough vaccines then sure, but there really isn't a reason otherwise for a 12-week interval when other countries use 6 weeks.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:21
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Vaccine effectiveness is a tricky subject, and there's no easily graphable way really to judge, especially as you could get Covid a week after the first jab and get reduced symptoms but still count as a vaccine 'fail' for the simple charts. Inactivated virus vaccines (AZ) rely on your body choosing which parts to respond to, and can learn several different gene sequences/proteins that kick off the immune response. It's a lottery whether these are good sequences (i.e. don't vary much and are actually important functional proteins) but you should respond to multiple viral proteins. If you have double the number of infections you will get roughly double the probability of a new 'strain'. Note that most variations tend to decrease virulence, but these will not even be noticable in the data. Its only the ones with similar or better infectivity that can go on to form a new visible strain. mRNA vaccines are new, but only encode a single protein (and rely on your body turning the rna->protein so it can see it). It is the most important one (the spike protein) so if a vaccine gets a variation in that, then yes it could dodge the vaccine but also it would no longer be viable to infect the human cells so it's still a win. It's a laser-focused vaccine, rather than broad and random. But as with all things biological, this is a guideline not a rule. There could be a change that changes the spike to dodge the vaccine response and increases virulence but the chances are very small. But again, see the point about more infections = more rolls of the dice. May only be a trillion to one, but if you're allowing it to infect millions then it will be getting billions of chances each day. It's not all doom and gloom tho. Immune response occurring within some hours of exposure as opposed to several days is what really saves you, and that's what all the vaccines will do. That exposure as well will fill in a bunch of missing protein profiles for your immune system too (as long as you weren't really unlucky and your immune system never got a good protein to lock onto in the first place, which is virtually impossible from mRNA). But even then, it still relies on your body having a functional immune system, which not everyone has.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:25
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Pistol_Pete posted:I've grown a bit cautious about the whole 'long Covid' thing because there's no diagnosis, no agreed set of symptoms and it's what people always fall back on when it's pointed out that deaths and hospitalisations remain really low: "Ah yes, but what about the potential effects of Long Covid etc etc etc". It's really hard to quantify compared to other consequences (you're either dead or you're not; you're either in hospital or you're not) so I'm still uncertain whether it's a substantial issue or some vague boogeyman. Yeah I’m also on this vibe, I’d like to see some data considering how many suicides there’ll be if we do re-lockdown over/after summer at this point.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:26
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Pistol_Pete posted:I've grown a bit cautious about the whole 'long Covid' thing because there's no diagnosis, no agreed set of symptoms and it's what people always fall back on when it's pointed out that deaths and hospitalisations remain really low: "Ah yes, but what about the potential effects of Long Covid etc etc etc". It's really hard to quantify compared to other consequences (you're either dead or you're not; you're either in hospital or you're not) so I'm still uncertain whether it's a substantial issue or some vague boogeyman. Yeah same, I’ve no doubt that serious symptomatic cases can cause scarring of lung and heart but the symptoms of long COVID in less serious and asymptomatic cases tend to run a very wide spread that could be any number of other conditions. There’s a fair amount of overlap of the symptoms with those of stress/anxiety/depression which are absolutely to be expected given what we’ve all lived through for the past 18 months.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:27
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https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1404483776881831938?s=19 Pfizer boys wooooo
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Jun 14, 2021 18:40
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1404483776881831938?s=19 I guess my doomposting comes not from the efficacy of the vaccines but in the competence of the Tories supporting it's rollout, which they absolutely will not.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:44
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1404483776881831938?s=19 I'm getting my 2nd jab tomorrow (having to travel 1:30 to get it as I dont have a car and it was what was available) and it'll 99% be a 2nd shot of AZ so this is good to hear. Honestly kinda terrified still.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:52
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I think it just often comes off a bit like people are wanting poo poo to be hosed again just so they can point at the U.K./Tories/British Establishment and say ‘see! Look!!! They/we ARE as poo poo!!’ Not you specifically you btw Bobby and I don’t think you’re even bad for it really. It’s not even specifically this thread but also so many people I know irl. I just had to ask my partner to not sound so happily confident that we’ll have to extend past 19th July. I suppose it’s just exhausting every time there’s some mildly good news from the gov, there’s this army of very smart people chomping at the bit to point out that it’s probably stupid optimism and we’re actually hosed etc etc
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Jun 14, 2021 18:54
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It is difficult not to think like that when the majority of the government, the press, and seemingly the population have spent the last entirety of my life but especially the last year and a half or previous to that with the brexit poo poo saying that everything is actually great and is only getting better even as 150k people loving die.
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Jun 14, 2021 19:00
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Yeah the doomerism is pretty exhausting and doesn't really have much basis in reality afaict. Vaccines are not perfect but good enough for what we need them for. Yes, we're getting a bump now but that's because we're reopening and young unvaccinated people are driving infections. They're starting to be processed now too though. There's light at the end of the tunnel here and I think you have to be a pretty depressing pessimist to deny that, which I say as a pretty depressing pessimist.
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Jun 14, 2021 19:01
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OzyMandrill posted:Vaccine effectiveness is a tricky subject, and there's no easily graphable way really to judge, especially as you could get Covid a week after the first jab and get reduced symptoms but still count as a vaccine 'fail' for the simple charts. Inactivated virus vaccines (AZ) rely on your body choosing which parts to respond to, and can learn several different gene sequences/proteins that kick off the immune response. It's a lottery whether these are good sequences (i.e. don't vary much and are actually important functional proteins) but you should respond to multiple viral proteins. If you have double the number of infections you will get roughly double the probability of a new 'strain'. Note that most variations tend to decrease virulence, but these will not even be noticable in the data. Its only the ones with similar or better infectivity that can go on to form a new visible strain. yeah and to this point specifically there’s some murmuring as to efficacy rates being notably better by excluding the cases generated in the first week or two after vaccination occurs
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Jun 14, 2021 19:02
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I am fully expecting everyone who had Astrazeneca to be told in 6 months time they have to get pfizer as well because it does nothing against the new iceland / omega variant. I believe the correct scientific term is ‘Omega level mutant’.
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Jun 14, 2021 19:04
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It isn't that I want things to be poo poo, it's that they have literally been nothing but poo poo and gotten shittier every year I have been alive. At this point I would require some sort of brain damage to not anticipate some new shittiness to happen simply because the world is apparently structured in such a fashion that there are vast, untapped avalanches of poo poo poised to fall at any given moment.
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Jun 14, 2021 19:05
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There's plenty of things to feel poo poo about in modern Britain and yeah being sceptical about what the tories are doing is the right reaction but they do seem to have lucked into the vaccine working better than expected. It is also in the tory interests to not have a killer virus sweep the nation for any longer than two years after all.
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Jun 14, 2021 19:16
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It's the "luck" element that is the issue, because the government keeps making decisions that kill shitloads of people, because they can't avoid doing that. Which means that it is only luck that manages to stave off the literal worst outcomes and I am not particularly confident in that continuing to be the case indefinitely.
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Jun 14, 2021 19:23
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