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hobbesmaster posted:Convocation of 14 - hydaelyn - zodiark = 12 The 12 gods are actually 13 individuals (Nald + Thal), also the convocation outside of Azem was tempered and wouldn't have helped out the new races -> wouldn't have left behind any legends.
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Jun 14, 2021 02:26
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hobbesmaster posted:Convocation of 14 - hydaelyn - zodiark = 12 Hydaelyn (or Venat) wasn't a member of the convocation, or at all related to them aside from being in opposition. Elidibus became Zodiark's heart, but he hosed off from that job to go help-and-probably-temper the Convocation, so there's no reason to lop him off for that. Simple arithmetic says that there's something not quite right about claiming the Convocation are the Twelve, because then you have to figure out... well, why did two of them disappear? You can bring the mystery number down to one by claiming that Nald and Thal were two different members, but then you need a good explanation for that, too (personally I go with 'Loghrif and Mitron, history is notoriously bad at recognizing romantic relationships that aren't heteronormative'), and still resolve the missing one (for which I've got nothing). I like the idea of the Twelve not being from a single source and just being a hodge-podge of various disparate figures lumped into the same group, partly because that's how real religions do and partly because it would give me more pointless background lore to nerd out about. But I also just don't expect it at this point. I bet they are somehow related to the Ancients/Convocation, and we just haven't managed to square that circle in the way they will yet.
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Jun 14, 2021 02:47
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https://twitter.com/zucchini_loaf/status/1404282885402546180?s=19
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Jun 14, 2021 04:54
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I don’t think the Twelve correspond to the Convocation at all personally. Some of them, yes, in the sense that Azem WAS a member of the Convocation but remember that they abandoned their post and were snubbed for that very reason! More likely in my opinion is that the Twelve are an amalgamation of distorted memories of Azem, Venat, members of Venat’s cohort, and unrelated figures from previous calamity time periods. Venat and her company being involved would certainly possibly help contribute to why Source society is so adamantly convinced the Twelve have a direct connection to Hydaelyn even if they have the relationship of who is who’s children reversed. Not a subject that I have SUPER strong opinions on because it could go in a number of directions at this point but that’s how I’m leaning. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Jun 14, 2021 |
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Jun 14, 2021 04:58
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I always thought it strange that the description of Eorzea for a new player says so much stuff about the gods and being touched by the gods and being proof the gods love us or whatever, only for the gods to be rarely touched upon in-game. I remember a lot of talk about the patron god of Limsa early on, and Rhalgr in SB, and Halone in HW. But only ever as an honorific or something, and the gods I believe are notably absent in Shadowbringers. I wonder what SE wants to do with the gods, because the only people who talk poo poo about them are Ascians/Imperials. Maybe nothing, really. Maybe just hints without definitive anything ever.
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Jun 14, 2021 06:19
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They're literally making a whole raid series about them OP
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Jun 14, 2021 06:29
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Literally "are the twelve otherwise engaged" + "we will speak later Ascian". Wonder if there's going to be unintended devastation.
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Jun 14, 2021 07:19
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jokes posted:I always thought it strange that the description of Eorzea for a new player says so much stuff about the gods and being touched by the gods and being proof the gods love us or whatever, only for the gods to be rarely touched upon in-game. I remember a lot of talk about the patron god of Limsa early on, and Rhalgr in SB, and Halone in HW. But only ever as an honorific or something, and the gods I believe are notably absent in Shadowbringers. The game has depicted though never explicitly stated the gods are essentially like gods IRL: that they're just names people give to arbitrary cosmic forces and concepts to personify them in a way identifiable to the culture, even going so far as to deconstruct Hydaelyn and Zodiark as the same thing as all the other "false" gods that the player has been killing since the start. Whether that's going to change with the upcoming raid is an unanswered question. I'd be surprised if they suddenly wheeled around with "but these ones are special/real," but at this point if they did I'd expect there to be some satisfying and less Aldenard-centric explanation.
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Jun 14, 2021 07:35
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Regarding the "Eorzea, touched by the gods" thing that's in the original ARR intro, I have vague recollections of old lore panel transcripts/lore Q&As where it's explained that Erozea just has a shitton of aether resident in it. Lots of aether in a location means plants and animals (and people? IDK) grow bigger and better, they're richer places to settle and live, and it's otherwise what makes it such a desirable place to settle and be. So any "the gods have blessed Eorzea" strikes me as at least partially in-world religious thankfulness on the part of Eorzeans themselves. The other part of this is that something huge and terrifying and powerful is/was under Silvertear Lake, the very center of Eorzea. And legends in general go that there's something gods-related and very important there, important enough that Midgardsormr was set to guard it, and enormous enough that the whole Agrius wreck thing popped some sort of seal and ruptured a lot of that stored aether and made summonings so much easier. It's not literally blessed by literal gods, but it's got some poo poo happening.
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Jun 14, 2021 17:42
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FeatherFloat posted:Regarding the "Eorzea, touched by the gods" thing that's in the original ARR intro, I have vague recollections of old lore panel transcripts/lore Q&As where it's explained that Erozea just has a shitton of aether resident in it. Lots of aether in a location means plants and animals (and people? IDK) grow bigger and better, they're richer places to settle and live, and it's otherwise what makes it such a desirable place to settle and be. So any "the gods have blessed Eorzea" strikes me as at least partially in-world religious thankfulness on the part of Eorzeans themselves. the fall of Dalamud also released a shitton of Aether around Eorzea as well. In addition to the spoilery poo poo at the end of the Coils of Bahamut.
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Jun 14, 2021 19:43
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what if they told us to do coil before endwalker cause we're gonna dig up the ragnarok and launch it at the moon
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Jun 14, 2021 20:37
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Vitamean posted:what if they told us to do coil before endwalker cause we're gonna dig up the ragnarok and launch it at the moon "People of Eorzea, my grandfather sacrificed himself to turn into an eikon and save everyone from Dalamund! And that eikon looked exactly like a spaceship!"
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Jun 14, 2021 20:40
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I had kinda taken for granted that Ragnarok would be how we actually got to the moon lol
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Jun 14, 2021 21:05
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Vitamean posted:what if they told us to do coil before endwalker cause we're gonna dig up the ragnarok and launch it at the moon Didn't Ragnarok show up in one of the trailers
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Jun 14, 2021 21:41
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There was a Ragnarok class ship, or something similar, in the moon location preview.
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Jun 14, 2021 21:43
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ImpAtom posted:Didn't Ragnarok show up in one of the trailers Orcs and Ostriches posted:There was a Ragnarok class ship, or something similar, in the moon location preview. https://youtu.be/unu9dXOtWgQ?t=35 That sure looks like a thruster of some type
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Jun 14, 2021 21:44
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That's allagan sputnik.
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Jun 14, 2021 21:50
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I mean, there's a spaceship in the logo, that's almost definitely how we are getting to the moon.
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Jun 14, 2021 22:39
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WrightOfWay posted:I mean, there's a spaceship in the logo, that's almost definitely how we are getting to the moon. No, we're almost definitely going to the moon on a whale, everyone else is getting to the moon on that ship.
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Jun 14, 2021 22:46
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hobbesmaster posted:No, we're almost definitely going to the moon on a whale, everyone else is getting to the moon on that ship. I'm still thinking we get to the moon via Tower of Babel. Fight through the dungeon and we either activate a giant space elevator, or there's a teleporter.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:11
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pretty sure the logo confirms we're going to the moon on a giant dorito? In all seriousness, when I saw the bit on the moon in the Mare preview vid I'd imagined it was one of those spears on Dalamud getting launched into the moon five years ago.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:12
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Vitamean posted:pretty sure the logo confirms we're going to the moon on a giant dorito? You can see those in Carteneau Flats, which is Borderland Ruins in Frontline and also a few solo duties including the big 5.55 finale take place there. They're very broad and flat, the thruster-looking thing in the Moon preview is more rounded and narrow
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Jun 14, 2021 23:17
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The dorito on the coverart bears a passing resemblance to Lunatic Pandora...
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Jun 14, 2021 23:17
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The only way to get to the moon will be if you bought the Lunar Whale mount from the shop
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Jun 15, 2021 00:52
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thetoughestbean posted:The only way to get to the moon will be if you bought the Lunar Whale mount from the shop WTS moon whale ferry service 1mil, 3 seats left!
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Jun 15, 2021 00:58
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hobbesmaster posted:WTS moon whale ferry service 1mil, 3 seats left! WTS moon whale ferry service, 999,999 Gil, 7 seats left!
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Jun 15, 2021 02:06
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gently caress all your mounts, I'm walking to the moon. The zone transition has to be around somewhere.
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Jun 15, 2021 02:15
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DrakePegasus posted:WTS moon whale ferry service, 999,999 Gil, 7 seats left! 
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Jun 15, 2021 02:24
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Cleretic posted:gently caress all your mounts, I'm walking to the moon. The zone transition has to be around somewhere. Ironworks Employee: Headed to the moon? >[Yes]< [No] Ironworks Employee: Ok, have a nice trip!
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Jun 15, 2021 02:30
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DrakePegasus posted:WTS moon whale ferry service, 999,999 Gil, 7 seats left! I laughed
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Jun 15, 2021 02:31
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Man, last time I went to the moon everybody else AFK'd below decks and left me to fight the monsters.
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Jun 15, 2021 03:32
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The giant dorito could just be a giant USB from a weird angle. There's a bunch of Ragnarok class internment hulk lying around, though the fact that they are called hulks doesn't really suggest they're all that great at moving around anymore. I can see it being something new as well though being a coil reference makes a lot of sense.
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Jun 15, 2021 04:44
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We're obviously going to the moon on our good buddy Bismark, duh.
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Jun 15, 2021 18:44
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We’re going to the moon on the back of a new Bismarck. This time it’s Bismarck from space. And it will help us fight Lunar Bismarck, with a special cameo appearance by Eorzea’s Bismarck and a flashback to The First’s Bismarck.
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Jun 16, 2021 05:10
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Yo what the gently caress why does everyone suddenly care about North Dakota?
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Jun 16, 2021 05:19
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jokes posted:We’re going to the moon on the back of a new Bismarck. This time it’s Bismarck from space. And it will help us fight Lunar Bismarck, with a special cameo appearance by Eorzea’s Bismarck and a flashback to The First’s Bismarck. The quest to do this begins in Limsa's Bismarck.
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Jun 16, 2021 06:51
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if we get a b-/a-/s-rank hunt that uses the primal model but smaller and altered slightly we can call it a bismarck-y mark
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Jun 16, 2021 07:41
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Ok so i avoided spoilers for ages as it took me forever to get to rank 25 in Zadnor and finish the Dalriada, but what a wild ride that was, especially reading the field notes you get for the quest completion *PHEW* Was there any obvious change with the decisions you made I know there was supposed to be something. Also I noticed, we got a fancy Chapter Title Card but not an end card. And none of this stuff is in NG+ yet. Is there still yet more Bozja we haven't gotten yet?
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Jun 18, 2021 08:35
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Pyronic posted:Was there any obvious change with the decisions you made I know there was supposed to be something. The whole "your choices matter" warning was a lot of hullabaloo over nothing. Either 1. (asked Bajsaljen earlier to spare Misija, tried to kill Misija yourself) Bajsaljen takes the knife out of your hand and kills her, 2. you give the knife to Bajsaljen and he kills her, or 3. you lean down to kill her but Bajsaljen tells you to stop because she is already dead (retroactive continuity because in the other instances she apparently lived long enough for Bajsaljen to kill her, whereas here she either inexplicably dies sooner or Bajsaljien is lying). In all three cases you're never allowed to kill her yourself and Bajsaljen always steals the moment from you.
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Jun 18, 2021 08:47
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Moofia Boss Val posted:The whole "your choices matter" warning was a lot of hullabaloo over nothing. Either 1. (asked Bajsaljen earlier to spare Misija, tried to kill Misija yourself) Bajsaljen takes the knife out of your hand and kills her, 2. you give the knife to Bajsaljen and he kills her, or 3. you lean down to kill her but Bajsaljen tells you to stop because she is already dead (retroactive continuity because in the other instances she apparently lived long enough for Bajsaljen to kill her, whereas here she either inexplicably dies sooner or Bajsaljien is lying). In all three cases you're never allowed to kill her yourself and Bajsaljen always steals the moment from you. I would actually say it's fairly plausible that the divide happens how it does, in a few possible ways: -Bajsaljen might've just made her die like, two seconds earlier. -Since she dies herself after you say she should be put to death, it's possible they were taking worse care of her, and so she passes slightly earlier. -I haven't seen that iteration of the scene, do we know if Bajsaljen stabs her while she's definitely alive? He might've just decided to stab a dead body, probably for catharsis. Even with that, though, it's possible these choices are actually going to come back even later. The end of Bozja's full of little sequel hooks, so it's entirely possible they're planning further ahead than just this patch.
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Jun 18, 2021 09:09
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