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Daduzi posted:Why are so many people labouring under the misapprehension that this thread is the "Top 13 Worst Attrocity Comitters (Number 7 Will Shock You!)" thread? This ain't a contest, and there's no need to bring in the atrocities of other nations except to obfuscate. I probably assumed as much because I saw other people arguing about relative harm and who was more "evil".
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Jun 7, 2021 19:24
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Judakel posted:I probably assumed as much because I saw other people arguing about relative harm and who was more "evil". The only reason that argument was happening at all was because of the last dipshit who wandered in to complain about America in the China thread who everyone told to gently caress off.
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Jun 7, 2021 19:25
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Judakel posted:I probably assumed as much because I saw other people arguing about relative harm and who was more "evil". Be the change you want to be
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Jun 7, 2021 19:36
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Judakel posted:I am simply explaining to you why I said "we". No need to be upset. Take it from a non-American: do not come into a D&D thread about China to engage in whataboutery about whatever loving country you are from if that country is not China.
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Jun 7, 2021 19:36
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lmao like whatever european country you're from isn't also on team american hegemony
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Jun 7, 2021 19:50
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Daduzi posted:Be the change you want to be I didn't say anything about having an issue with the discussion. The discussion veering into such comparisons is unavoidable (and not whataboutism) as China overtakes the US in global influence; the vast majority of the world will be living under one hegemonic power or the other. Even in America, you are going to see changes in speech that reflect a desire to appeal to China. Judakel fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jun 7, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 20:07
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Fojar38 posted:Nobody gives a gently caress. It's not about you. Mantis42 posted:lmao like whatever european country you're from isn't also on team american hegemony Stop. Judakel clarified that he was speaking from an American perspective, that should be the end of it.
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Jun 7, 2021 20:08
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Judakel posted:Even in America, you are going to see changes in speech that reflect a desire to appeal to China. "Are going to"? It's already happening, lol.
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Jun 7, 2021 20:16
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Silver2195 posted:"Are going to"? It's already happening, lol. It’s been going on for a while 
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Jun 7, 2021 20:25
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That's true, I just meant even more noticeably. Up until a few years ago, we'd only had minor changes in the media we consume. However, when you see outspoken Lebron cowed on issues relating to China, or Cena's pleading apology, you notice a major turning point in the way our soft power is shaped by China.
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Jun 7, 2021 20:32
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Personally, I can't quite figure out where the value is in attempting to delineate between levels of Evil. Like, the CCP is currently engaging in very real, very provable, horrifically evil genocide. Genocide by every definition of the word. I feel like that should put them at the very top of the Evil heap. They can sit there, at the top, with the United States and Israel and whoever else, but they're at the top. You don't get to move down notches on the Evil heap if you're enacting the worst genocide on the planet right now, today, June 7th 2021.
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Jun 7, 2021 20:36
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How are u posted:You don't get to move down notches on the Evil heap if you're enacting the worst genocide on the planet right now, today, June 7th 2021. since we're comparing, how do you rank them?
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Jun 7, 2021 20:50
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How are u posted:Personally, I can't quite figure out where the value is in attempting to delineate between levels of Evil. Like, the CCP is currently engaging in very real, very provable, horrifically evil genocide. Genocide by every definition of the word. I feel like that should put them at the very top of the Evil heap. They can sit there, at the top, with the United States and Israel and whoever else, but they're at the top. You don't get to move down notches on the Evil heap if you're enacting the worst genocide on the planet right now, today, June 7th 2021. It's basically the same what-aboutism Republicans desperately deploy whenever their people get criticized. Its value is that it serves to deflect criticism.
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Jun 7, 2021 20:56
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Fojar38 posted:As you've pointed out, there is a very large amount of evidence corroborating the Chinese governments ongoing genocide of the Uigher peoples that has nothing to do with Adrian Zenz. The only reason he ever comes up nowadays is when tankies want to deny the genocide as his other (and irrelevant) beliefs are what they've chosen to latch onto to undermine the evidence. At this point seeing anyone go "but Adrian Zenz" should be a red flag in the same sense that bringing up George Soros out of the blue is. Yeah, Zenz may be a wacky evangelical Christian but that doesn't really have any bearing on the fact that almost all of his work is drawing from official Chinese government documents. And is corroborated by other sources including lots of eyewitness testimony.
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Jun 7, 2021 22:06
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Judakel posted:I didn't say anything about having an issue with the discussion. The discussion veering into such comparisons is unavoidable (and not whataboutism) as China overtakes the US in global influence; the vast majority of the world will be living under one hegemonic power or the other. Even in America, you are going to see changes in speech that reflect a desire to appeal to China. I disagree, I'd argue it's both avoidable and unnecessary. You can see that it's avoidable because those of us in this thread with actual interest in China in and of itself do not engage in it. It's unnecessary because it adds 0 extra information that cannot be gained from discussing China's actions by themselves rather than attempting to draw up a table of Major League Attrocities.
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Jun 8, 2021 03:26
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Daduzi posted:I disagree, I'd argue it's both avoidable and unnecessary. You can see that it's avoidable because those of us in this thread with actual interest in China in and of itself do not engage in it. It's unnecessary because it adds 0 extra information that cannot be gained from discussing China's actions by themselves rather than attempting to draw up a table of Major League Attrocities. i think it's probably unavoidable, because of the greater context. the only reason we have multiple megathreads on the forums to discuss china, and not to megathreads to discuss idk, indonesia or somewhere, is because of china's place in the global system. you can't totally separate america from that discussion. and this specifically isn't a chat thread to discuss chinese cooking or swap recipes or something. america, specifically, is implicit in almost all geopolitical discussions
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Jun 8, 2021 03:34
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There is a reasonable discussion of American interests or actions within the context of a thread about China’s interests or actions, and then there is “No, let me tell you that the Netherlands is actually way more evil” and “You just think like this because you’re part of the American hegemony lol.”
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Jun 8, 2021 04:33
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Nilbop posted:There is a reasonable discussion of American interests or actions within the context of a thread about China’s interests or actions, and then there is “No, let me tell you that the Netherlands is actually way more evil” and “You just think like this because you’re part of the American hegemony lol.” Exactly. Nobody is saying there's no value in discussing the ramifications of China's actions on other countries (and vice-versa), but the whole "yeah but yeah but yeah but Belgian Congo" (or "yeah but yeah but yeah but sanctions") is a needless, dead-end response to an argument nobody is making.
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Jun 8, 2021 06:26
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fart simpson posted:i think it's probably unavoidable, because of the greater context. the only reason we have multiple megathreads on the forums to discuss china, and not to megathreads to discuss idk, indonesia or somewhere, is because of china's place in the global system. you can't totally separate america from that discussion. and this specifically isn't a chat thread to discuss chinese cooking or swap recipes or something. america, specifically, is implicit in almost all geopolitical discussions nerd (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 8, 2021 18:01
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Stevie Lee posted:since we're comparing, how do you rank them? Yeah no. We're not doing Genocide/Evil Olympics in this thread, so don't do poo poo like this.
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Jun 8, 2021 18:19
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:How long does the US southwest have to be owned by the US before it becomes ok to do a genocide on the insufficiently american? 600 years.
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Jun 15, 2021 03:34
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New census data shows a steady growth of Uyghur population in Xinjiang over the last decade, for thread consideration: http://english.ts.cn/system/2021/06/14/036646162.shtml
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Jun 15, 2021 14:06
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Cookie Cutter posted:New census data shows a steady growth of Uyghur population in Xinjiang over the last decade, for thread consideration: Your point here being?
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Jun 15, 2021 14:22
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Your point here being? Well, supposedly declining population rates are one of the indicators people like to use to draw conclusions about what's going on in Xinjiang, so the only real point I'm personally making is that I think it's important the newest data is shared around.
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Jun 15, 2021 16:09
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Cookie Cutter posted:Well, supposedly declining population rates are one of the indicators people like to use to draw conclusions about what's going on in Xinjiang, so the only real point I'm personally making is that I think it's important the newest data is shared around. And there are more Jews alive today than in 1939 so obviously the Holocaust was a fraud 
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Jun 15, 2021 16:14
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Cookie Cutter posted:Well, supposedly declining population rates are one of the indicators people like to use to draw conclusions about what's going on in Xinjiang, so the only real point I'm personally making is that I think it's important the newest data is shared around. Important that the data is shared around because the conclusion you draw from it is ... ?
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Jun 15, 2021 16:21
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Cookie Cutter posted:New census data shows a steady growth of Uyghur population in Xinjiang over the last decade, for thread consideration:
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Jun 15, 2021 16:35
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Epinephrine posted:Umm, do you know who runs and administers that website? Do you think they might have a vested interest in presenting false or misleading data? while I couldn't find an about page in the first thirty seconds, going to the website's front page was informative nonetheless Are Chinese censuses generally reliable? I guess that's not a perfect metric for whether the Xinjiang census is reliable, but it's a start.
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Jun 15, 2021 16:42
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:And there are more Jews alive today than in 1939 so obviously the Holocaust was a fraud This is not even remotely a dunk
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Jun 15, 2021 16:47
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GreyjoyBastard posted:while I couldn't find an about page in the first thirty seconds, going to the website's front page was informative nonetheless i was counted in the latest chinese census. they came by my place last fall after work and asked me to fill out some basic demographic info and then came back a week later and asked me to confirm again that it was all correct. hope this helps
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Jun 15, 2021 16:58
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Cookie Cutter posted:New census data shows a steady growth of Uyghur population in Xinjiang over the last decade, for thread consideration: The important percentage they leave out is that the Han population is growing faster than the Uighur population, note how they say the Uighurs grew by 16% but don't do the same for the Han growth, and that growth is almost entirely driven by migration. By 2030, it's likely the Uighurs will be a minority in their own homeland. Morrow fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 17:08
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This is a very general comment not specifically even about China but the idea that any ethnicity (whatever you understand the word to mean, and if anything) has some piece of territory that is inherently their rightful 'homeland' is a really dumb idea that leads nowhere good
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Jun 15, 2021 17:14
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ThomasPaine posted:This is a very general comment not specifically even about China but the idea that any ethnicity (whatever you understand the word to mean, and if anything) has some piece of territory that is inherently their rightful 'homeland' is a really dumb idea that leads nowhere good Your contribution is appreciated. By 2030, Uighurs will no longer be the largest ethnic group in Xinjiang province, an integral and inseparable part of China.
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Jun 15, 2021 17:25
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e: this was a dumb post I came in on a bookmark and mistook which thread I was in. Apologies.
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Jun 15, 2021 17:38
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GreyjoyBastard posted:while I couldn't find an about page in the first thirty seconds, going to the website's front page was informative nonetheless What was informative about it? It won't load for me.
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Jun 15, 2021 17:48
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To be a bit more direct: Tianshannet is run by the Xinjiang regional government. The government in charge where the genocide is taking place, and (at least part of) the same one that denies the Uyghur genocide is happening in the first place.
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Jun 15, 2021 17:59
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Cookie Cutter posted:Well, supposedly declining population rates are one of the indicators people like to use to draw conclusions about what's going on in Xinjiang, a Which people?
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Jun 15, 2021 18:30
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Daduzi posted:Which people? I believe they mean Uyghurs in Xinjiang, which individuals in the past have claimed are dropping in numbers, but this census claims are actually increasing in number.
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Jun 16, 2021 01:49
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I sure am glad that we have the Chinese government to provide an accurate picture of what's happening in Xinjiang. Case closed
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Jun 16, 2021 02:04
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Are Chinese censuses generally reliable? I guess that's not a perfect metric for whether the Xinjiang census is reliable, but it's a start. I couldn't find anything on them one way or the other when I saw this yesterday.
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Jun 16, 2021 02:12
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