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AFancyQuestionMark posted:He's already moved to the opposition seats in the Knesset. It's done. He just has to wait a few months until the new government collapses under the weight of its ideological contradictions anyway.
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Jun 13, 2021 23:23
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:Who becomes prime minister if the government collapses? I'm not too familiar with how the Knesset works, but I thought part of why Bibi was able to stay in between all the elections was because he was PM when the election was called. What would happen now? In general in such systems the PM technically remains PM until the next elections happen but can generally expected to be greatly reduced in power since the fact that the government has collapsed means people in the legislature aren't voting for the things he supports.
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Jun 13, 2021 23:28
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So anyone want to do a quick informal history lesson on why this guy was hated so much by both sides that they formed some kind of Voltron of groups that were apparently the least likely to cooperate in history, in order to get rid of him?
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Jun 13, 2021 23:49
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-Blackadder- posted:So anyone want to do a quick informal history lesson on why this guy was hated so much by both sides that they formed some kind of Voltron of groups that were apparently the least likely to cooperate in history, in order to get rid of him? I don’t know if these parties care, but Bibi apparently instigated the latest mess in an attempt to stay in power.
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Jun 13, 2021 23:51
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-Blackadder- posted:So anyone want to do a quick informal history lesson on why this guy was hated so much by both sides that they formed some kind of Voltron of groups that were apparently the least likely to cooperate in history, in order to get rid of him? He lied and backstabbed so much that even his allies formed parties with the express purpose of overthrowing him.
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Jun 13, 2021 23:57
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-Blackadder- posted:So anyone want to do a quick informal history lesson on why this guy was hated so much by both sides that they formed some kind of Voltron of groups that were apparently the least likely to cooperate in history, in order to get rid of him? He’s an enormous prick
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Jun 14, 2021 00:36
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Prominent U.S. democrats generally appear to be anti-Netanyahu but pro-Israel. The harshest public stance we see from Democrats towards Israel is that they are just against Netanyahu but still support Israel. That is as 'harsh' as it gets and the extent of their criticism towards Israel. What do you think we will see now?
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Jun 14, 2021 01:16
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Yeah I really feel that people in the israeli body politic finally caught on that there is ALWAYS somehow a major outbreak of israeli-palestinian violence occurring whenever Bibi is in trouble
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Jun 14, 2021 01:21
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Didn't he also do some fuckery with the last power sharing alliance too
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Jun 14, 2021 01:25
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-Blackadder- posted:So anyone want to do a quick informal history lesson on why this guy was hated so much by both sides that they formed some kind of Voltron of groups that were apparently the least likely to cooperate in history, in order to get rid of him? I am not well versed on Israeli politics and this is just my 2 cents but from my understanding over the last few months is that Netanyahu tried to be like every other autocrat. He wanted all the power to himself even at the expense of his own party and allies. They finally have had enough.
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Jun 14, 2021 01:34
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Starpluck posted:Prominent U.S. democrats generally appear to be anti-Netanyahu but pro-Israel. This is one of my biggest concerns. A shitload of people are still getting forcibly removed from their homes in Jerusalem, I'm certain a lot of liberal politicians and columnists are going to glide over this for some "Bibi is gone, the evil has been vanquished!" Sweetheart period.
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Jun 14, 2021 01:35
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Neurolimal posted:This is one of my biggest concerns. A shitload of people are still getting forcibly removed from their homes in Jerusalem, I'm certain a lot of liberal politicians and columnists are going to glide over this for some "Bibi is gone, the evil has been vanquished!" Sweetheart period. yeah, i get this because some columnists are definitely going to do this, but i'm hopeful that the deep partisan spite that has infected american politics means that democratic voters will harbor vague ill will towards israel for a while. i think it's easier to breakdown an idyllic conception of a state than it is to build them up
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Jun 14, 2021 02:50
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FlamingLiberal posted:Didn't he also do some fuckery with the last power sharing alliance too Yes, he intentionally did not submit a budget to ensure the power sharing deal would collapse. Then after the last election, no one would accept any power sharing deals with him for some reason.
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Jun 14, 2021 14:45
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Lum_ posted:Yes, he intentionally did not submit a budget to ensure the power sharing deal would collapse. Then after the last election, no one would accept any power sharing deals with him for some reason. and that was after gantz, who was dumb but not born yesterday, thought he'd had the deal put into the israeli constitution that he would automatically become prime minister if bibi tried any fuckery unfortunately he forgot that failing to pass a budget causes a government to collapse without triggering the things he put into the basic law
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Jun 14, 2021 15:11
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-Blackadder- posted:So anyone want to do a quick informal history lesson on why this guy was hated so much by both sides that they formed some kind of Voltron of groups that were apparently the least likely to cooperate in history, in order to get rid of him? He's spent more time as PM than anyone else in Israeli history. His last stint as PM was longer than the Obama presidency and the Trump presidency combined, despite the fact that Israeli politics have a lot of factionalism that leads to deep splits between even the various right-wing parties. By pitting other factions against each other, and demonstrating that he has no overriding principles of his own to stop him from breaking promises and betraying allies whenever it's convenient, he's been able to maintain overall leadership of the Israeli right-wing for ages. Everyone to his left loathes him, and there's many ambitious politicians on the right who'd love to take his role as leader of the right for himself...if they could only find a decent excuse to turn against him without offending their own right-wing voters. The decisive factor that turned everyone against him, the magic excuse that gave his right-wing allies cover to betray him, is the fact that he's currently on trial for fraud, accepting bribes, and various other flavors of corruption. He's spent years maneuvering to try to get a bill passed to give him immunity from criminal charges, which is a blatant enough response to those corruption investigations and indictments that it provides a decent excuse to any right-wingers who can work up the nerve. And after literally four national elections in a two-year period, a lot of parties are getting creative and flexible to try to avoid dragging a fed-up electorate back to the polls yet again. Neurolimal posted:This is one of my biggest concerns. A shitload of people are still getting forcibly removed from their homes in Jerusalem, I'm certain a lot of liberal politicians and columnists are going to glide over this for some "Bibi is gone, the evil has been vanquished!" Sweetheart period. Liberal politicians and columnists in the US hardly gave a drat about Israeli treatment of Palestinians n the first place. They hate Netanyahu because he snubbed Obama and aligned with Republicans a few years back, trading away Israel's "bipartisan" status in the US for temporary political gain.
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Jun 14, 2021 15:22
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So the biggest and likely only positive thing about this government is the fact that for the first time in Israeli history the coalition contains an arab party, tens of billions of shekels are going to be transferred to arab municipalities in the short term which has the potential of changing much about the day to day realities of arab citizens. Now that the cat is out of the bag it is likely that arab parties will be taken more seriously, and thus that arab voters will be catered to by the government, and that voter turnout in arab cities will increase over time thus giving arab parties even more power. Yes Israel is an occupying force and we do the apartheid, but where there is even some semblance of democracy there's hope for democratic change.
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Jun 15, 2021 11:21
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emanresu tnuocca posted:So the biggest and likely only positive thing about this government is the fact that for the first time in Israeli history the coalition contains an arab party, tens of billions of shekels are going to be transferred to arab municipalities in the short term which has the potential of changing much about the day to day realities of arab citizens.
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Jun 15, 2021 13:27
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Xander77 posted:Like I mentioned in the thread, I've previously despaired on promoting cooperation, understanding, and integration of Arabs into Israeli politics from the left. I definitely wouldn't have imagined this development happening as a result of... however we should refer to the ongoing clusterfuck. you should always imagine things, whether good or bad, happening in the most insane way possible. this is key for understanding reality
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Jun 15, 2021 18:27
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Bennett suggested in June 2013 that Israel must learn to live with the Palestinian problem without a "surgical action" of separation to two states: "I have a friend who's got shrapnel in his rear end, and he's been told that it can be removed surgically, but it would leave him disabled... So he decided to live with it. There are situations where insisting on perfection can lead to more trouble than it's worth." Bennett's "Shrapnel in the butt" quickly became widely known as representing his view of the Palestinian problem.[72][73] In response to Israel's release of Palestinian prisoners in 2013, Bennett said that Palestinian terrorists should be shot, allegedly adding, "I already killed lots of Arabs in my life, and there is absolutely no problem with that".[74] Bennett was widely condemned for these words,[75] though he denied saying them, claiming he said merely that "terrorists should be killed if they pose an immediate life threat to our soldiers when in action".[76]
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Jun 15, 2021 18:36
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Not a great guy
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Jun 15, 2021 20:54
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hey guys remember that ceasefire? well yeah that is over now https://twitter.com/Palestine_UN/status/1404934244376449028
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Jun 16, 2021 01:24
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Seems like it was just a minor flareup because it's not being covered as a major event quite yet.  e: aside from replaying footage on al jazzy
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Jun 16, 2021 02:08
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CNN reports israel is just retaliating for hamas sending "incendiary balloons" earlier.
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Jun 16, 2021 02:41
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Israel claims the bombings are in response to incendiary balloons launched from Gaza. Which, if true, was no doubt a response to a far-right march through East Jerusalem yesterday, waving Israeli flags and chanting openly anti-Arab and anti-Muslim slogans. It had been facing difficulties and delays in getting permitted, largely because a right-wing march was what kicked off the last flare-up in the first place and everyone with any sense knew another one this soon would be too much. But I suppose Bennett is especially eager right now to pander to his right-wing nationalist base, who proclaimed that cancelling the march would be giving in to terrorists.
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Jun 16, 2021 03:06
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"Incendiary balloons" is the dumbest excuse for anything I ever drat saw.
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Jun 16, 2021 04:01
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mdemone posted:"Incendiary balloons" is the dumbest excuse for anything I ever drat saw.
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Jun 16, 2021 04:58
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Main Paineframe posted:Israel claims the bombings are in response to incendiary balloons launched from Gaza. it should also be noted that israeli riot police forcibly cleared counter protester along the parade route, using flash bangs, rubber bullets, and live fire. 33 palestinians were injured, with 6 of those requiring hospitalization. so not only was the march a blatant display of hatred, but once again the government used extreme force to allow that hatred an uncontested platform
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Jun 16, 2021 05:05
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mdemone posted:"Incendiary balloons" is the dumbest excuse for anything I ever drat saw. Israel tends to react pretty strongly to them, because it's an incredibly cheap way to cause large amounts of property damage, and there is essentially nothing Israel can do about it. A round of balloons poses relatively little threat to residential areas, but can torch hundreds of acres of farmland, inflicting plenty of economic impact with a lower casualty count than the rockets. It's literally just a matter of taking kites or helium party balloons, attaching a burning rag or molotov cocktail, and letting the wind carry it over the border. Basically anyone can do it with no special equipment or training (which means that one doesn't need to be a member of Hamas to do it), and tasking soldiers and drone pilots on balloon-hunting duty has yielded very little in the way of results. There's been talk of deploying anti-balloon lasers in border areas, but so far that doesn't seem to have panned out, and in the meantime Israel is primarily relying on their usual tactic when they can't find a technological or military countermeasure: heavy use of collective punishment.
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Jun 16, 2021 06:12
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Main Paineframe posted:Israel tends to react pretty strongly to them, because it's an incredibly cheap way to cause large amounts of property damage, and there is essentially nothing Israel can do about it. A round of balloons poses relatively little threat to residential areas, but can torch hundreds of acres of farmland, inflicting plenty of economic impact with a lower casualty count than the rockets. It was the only way Japan sucessfully attacked the US Mainland in WWII.
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Jun 16, 2021 07:13
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The NY Times and Washington Post had some photo of damage caused by incendiary balloons and burned what appear to be acres of wheat or some other kind of crop. I'm not a general or have any real military experience yet these can't possibly be that difficult to detect and shoot down. And there's no way in hell Israeli's response was proportionate.
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Jun 16, 2021 15:28
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Balloons are actually incredibly difficult to stop. Very small target that is moving erratically and can be difficult to spot in the sky. Next to no metal so radar is not useful either.
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Jun 16, 2021 15:41
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AtomikKrab posted:... can be difficult to spot in the sky ...
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Jun 16, 2021 18:03
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From an Israeli source but it looks like they didn't go out of their way to go for clear balloons: https://twitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1404805217124864013 And yeah, Israel's answer is indeed: "relying on their usual tactic when they can't find a technological or military countermeasure: heavy use of collective punishment. " Not to mentions cobbling together more justifications for preventing humanitarian aid from reaching Palestinians.
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Jun 16, 2021 18:54
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Let slip the balloons of war
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Jun 16, 2021 19:09
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Why would Hamas take photos of themselves doing this?
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Jun 16, 2021 19:32
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:The NY Times and Washington Post had some photo of damage caused by incendiary balloons and burned what appear to be acres of wheat or some other kind of crop. If a Palestinian kills one Israeli the punishment is an entire housing complex leveled. I wonder oh how I wonder how reinhard would feel about this.
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Jun 16, 2021 20:15
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Munin posted:From an Israeli source but it looks like they didn't go out of their way to go for clear balloons: I just can not get over this photo of an apparent hamas nitrous party
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Jun 16, 2021 20:15
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Gaza is so small that I often wonder how many hospitals and schools they have left over that weren't destroyed or disabled by Israel. Israel already destroyed Gaza's only COVID-19 testing site a month ago. In 2014, Israel engaged in terrorism by destroying Gaza's only power plant. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/07/29/336386340/israeli-bombing-destroys-gazas-only-power-plant. Also, according to that link Israel destroyed "Hamas media offices," and after Israel loosely bombed AP's tower, we will never know what constitutes a "Hamas media office."
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Jun 16, 2021 20:51
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Starpluck posted:we will never know what constitutes a "Hamas media office." An office with journalists who have the temerity to report from Gaza and occasionally talk to Hamas people to get their side of the story as a reporter should.
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Jun 16, 2021 21:27
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droll posted:Why would Hamas take photos of themselves doing this? Assuming those are in fact Hamas folks and not random schlubbos, claiming credit for asymmetrical warfare lets them keep up their cred re resisting the occupiers. There are reasons not to (if you think it'll hurt international opinion, or make the pictured dudes even more targeted by Israel I guess). They don't necessarily outweigh the reasons to make it a media op. also as Paineframe mentioned it's actually a pretty clever way to hit Israel in the wallet without TOO much risk of internationally unpalatable civilian casualties. so if you're gonna film yourself shooting rickety rockets with the targeting precision of "somewhere over there, probably", which Hamas does sometimes, it makes sense to film yourself launching fire balloons
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Jun 16, 2021 22:33
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