Online Creators V: I believe it is actually his ass cheek and balls

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(Thread IKs: Nuns with Guns)

Pants Donkey: Nov 13, 2011

lol at �actually, lgbtq people love me. They�re just out of frame, laughing with me� on that post.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 05:58

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 16:01

DoctorWhat: Nov 18, 2011; A little privacy, please?

Monster Hunter does crafting pretty well because it factors into the time/opportunity/resource triangle of prehunt preparation. Do I fill my inventory with ingredients for more potions, or for crafting barrel bombs, or projectiles? Or do I just bring a small stack of the final item by crafting beforehand, favoring variety over raw supply? What if I split the difference and rely on reliable harvest points midhunt to replenish my stock of any or all of those?

Especially in Rise, where fast- and auto- crafting options are easy to configure.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 05:59

Nuebot: Feb 18, 2013; The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Farm Frenzy posted:

if were talking stupid game mechanics that add absolutely nothing but are just there from inertia you can't beat crafting in non survival games imo. weapon durability could never

Remember farming for rare drops in Symphony of the Night? Now what if to get that sword you had to farm for rare drops from three different monsters, go back to some other dude, then smush them together for that same sword! I'm still really looking forward to Bloodstained 2, I loved the first.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:00

Alaois: Feb 7, 2012

oh i forgot the one non-eastern european game that did weapon durability right, Far Cry 2

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:04

Jamie Faith: Jan 13, 2020

Nuebot posted:

Because durability usually isn't sustained in the same way or pace that ammo is, in most games at least. Generally having to stop and maintain or replace your weapon is treated on an entirely different tier from having to reload. In some games you can only repair weapons at certain stations, or with repair kits that often have a good deal higher rarity than ammo drops (and this is getting into the abstract here so I apologize.)

Health, I find, is more of a punishment mechanic. You take damage when you screw up, whether that's because you didn't kill the other dudes fast enough or efficiently enough - or because you didn't dodge right in an action game. Some games even integrate health as a resource like ammo, allowing you to expend it to gain extra power in combat or there's always the classic "take damage to save time" speedrun style. Having to stop to heal yourself is more in line with that: you're forced to stop and replenish that lost because of the choices you made, because you screwed up or because you chose to sacrifice your health for other gains. But if every use of your weapon just takes off some of your weapon bar, and the only way to make that go up is to stop and use a grind stone, or tape two swords together to heal your sword, then it feels like I'm just stuck wondering what I did wrong or why my sword appears to be running on fuel like a lovely lawn mower.

To get more specific, as an example, Dark Souls 2 did the worst of all worlds in regards to this. Durability just kind of chunked away with every use of your weapon, and as a punishment any time you hit a corpse, or a piece of level geometry you basically lost double durability (and this was further compounded by it all being tied to framerate so you lost durability for every frame your weapon touched an enemy or object, thus at 60FPS weak weapons could lose like half of their durability any time you killed something since they'd instantly become corpses before your weapon could withdraw from their bodies.) and most people kind of hated it because they felt no reason to really experiment with weapons. Things that were supposed to be high risk vs reward, lots of damage for fragile durability, were often viewed as being way too much of a liability especially for players who just weren't good at the game, and the fact that you would have to sink so many of your souls into repair powder to compensate or else you'd break your weapon (and broken weapons cost a lot to repair, as they wouldn't heal at bonfires even) meant people were even more put off from trying since they'd feel extra weak from not being able to use those souls to power themselves up. The end result was that a lot of the playerbase, especially those who just weren't skilled enough to adapt to this lovely system, gravitated towards the items with the highest durability like the Santier's Spear, a weapon that had obscenely high durability but unlocked an alternate moveset if you managed to break it. And this is without mentioning how bad the armour durability could get, enemies that attacked with acid damage could destroy the weaker sets in a single go which again not only meant you'd have to pay a lot of souls to repair them (or change your gear and thus potentially adjust your entire playstyle) but having your armour or weapon break basically meant their stats became null, if your weapon broke it did almost no damage, barring the Santier's Spear of course, and if your armour broke you'd suddenly be taking a lot more damage. So one hit could suddenly mean you were taking double damage until you managed to reach a blacksmith and farm up enough souls to repair your gear. It felt strangely spitefully punishing towards people who just weren't as good at avoiding everything, or didn't innately recognize what did and didn't do certain types of damage.

In Dark Souls 3 they basically removed durability as a factor by making your armour take so little durability damage that it takes several hours of constant damage to break even one piece, and you can play through the majority of the game with one single weapon not stopping at any bonfire and only have to repair your weapon once or twice. This doesn't really take away anything from the series because durability was only ever used to make the game shittier for people who just weren't good at it, dating back to Demon's Souls where the Scraping Spear was used by online griefers to just break the equipment of less competent people who didn't really know how to fight back and evade, teaching a lot of the playerbase that online encounters were just miserable, sucked and not worth engaging in at all because even if you did win you'd come out of it with a massive loss since you now had to reset your progress by going back and repairing your poo poo. If the goal is to make people not be able to attack forever non-stop; we already have stamina for that, animation speed and lock. If it's to punish us for attacking recklessly like 2 tried to do, that's what the environment and AI are for, to take advantage of players who just mash the attack button blindly without realizing what they're doing. Traps existed, and will continue to exist, but stripping the player of their gear just made the situation hopeless since now not only would they be able to not get out of the trap, but even if they could progress would be nearly impossible to do at such a handicap. Rendering durability into a non-issue in Dark Souls 3 didn't really harm the game in any way, very few people missed it and everything it did was already done by another system in the game.

Which is basically my issue with durability in nearly every game its in: it just doubles up on systems that already exist in unfun ways. Whether its with ammo, already a system that regulated how often and how long you could engage in combat with a gun, but with the added tax of weakening you if not maintained like in fallout or risking removing your weapon entirely, like in say Dark Cloud where if your weapons broke they just vanished forever. It's been almost universal that when games have durability systems people respond the same way; but just not using the stuff the consider high value or rare. Or else they take the turtle approach, load their inventory up with repair items and move slowly, carefully, and repair after every encounter. I know way too many people who came away from Dark Cloud hating that entire franchise because they felt like they absolutely had to have their inventory filled with repair powders or else they might lose their weapon mid dungeon and thus all of their progress through the game was rendered useless.

Can durability, in theory at least, be done right? Probably. I just don't think I've ever played a game where it hasn't felt awful. At best it's something like in a survival game, where you need to keep your thirst and hunger bars filled, your durability bars filled, your hot and cold bars empty and the entire game is about managing your constantly draining or filling bars wherein durability just becomes another one of those many bars. But at worst it can just be a weight on top of a dozen other systems that do the same things it does, but just slightly out of synch making it feel incredibly obtrusive and ungainly. And ultimately in the vast majority of games I play, even RPGs, I don't really think my pants and guns need health bars. I've got health to determine if I'm taking the damage, I've got the ammo or the stamina or whatever Action Point turn economy the game's got going on to determined how much I can attack or move. It feels needless to also tell me that for every one bullet I spend my gun takes eight damage also, but getting more bullets doesn't heal that damage, instead I have to go out and buy a gun bandaid and repair it.

I can't talk about Soulsborne or Darkcloud since I haven't really played them much and Doctor What's post did a much better job than I could talking about BOTW but I do want to say I appreciate your effort post

I guess what it comes down to is what to do you find fun in a game like this. I love managing systems in survival games and I would miss durability if it wasn't there. But I'm also one of the few people who likes dealing with encumbrance too lol

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:09

Yardbomb: Jul 11, 2011; What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

ADP was dumb but I don't know why it's such a big gripe especially now, you put a handful of points into it and then it's benched from there on.

DS2 is good as hell but the main gripe with it should still just mainly be soul memory being an okay idea, implemented poorly.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:09

Akett: Aug 6, 2012

Adaptability's problem is that it makes your defensive options worse in the early game and it conditions you into feeling way more vulnerable than you end up.

I'll be real I kind of like adaptability but I can't deny the lasting effect it had on my playstyle in that game.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:14

Nuebot: Feb 18, 2013; The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Yardbomb posted:

ADP was dumb but I don't know why it's such a big gripe especially now, you put a handful of points into it and then it's benched from there on.

DS2 is good as hell but the main gripe with it should still just mainly be soul memory being an okay idea, implemented poorly.

I think I get what they were trying with ADP and the biggest issue a lot of people have with it is how "mandatory" it is. Of course, to certain degrees of mandatory since if you're playing a big fat tanky build you don't really need the extra iframes on your dodge if you're not dodging and you don't need the faster casting if you're not casting. But it's got that gamer brain mentality of every character and every build ever has to invest these points into it no matter what or else. Which makes people mad because it's just kind of a level tax on casters and anyone who wants to dodge good. :shrug:

It's not a terrible idea, but I get why it makes people mad.

Jamie Faith posted:

I can't talk about Soulsborne or Darkcloud since I haven't really played them much and Doctor What's post did a much better job than I could talking about BOTW but I do want to say I appreciate your effort post

I guess what it comes down to is what to do you find fun in a game like this. I love managing systems in survival games and I would miss durability if it wasn't there. But I'm also one of the few people who likes dealing with encumbrance too lol

I'm not a big fan of Encumbrance but I don't have particularly strong opinions on it like I do durabilty lmao. But I am a hoarder in RPGs and do like to hold every unique item possible forever. I don't care if that gold doo-dad only exists to be sold, its the only one of its kind!

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:16

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Adaptability is another example of From being poo poo at communicating mechanics to players.

Yardbomb posted:

DS2 is good as hell but the main gripe with it should still just mainly be soul memory being an okay idea, implemented poorly.

I loving hate Dark Souls' PvP so it never bothered me at all.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:33

Gwen: Aug 17, 2011

eating animations in botw2 would suck unless you get to have full control minus attacking while doing it and link gets full after too much food

there should be a food pocket where you slot curries into and can use them during combat as either healing or projectiles

hire me nintendo

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:42

StealthArcher: Jan 10, 2010

A shitton of self assured "cazhuls ruinin ma vijemogamz" chat again, wonderful.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:44

Farm Frenzy: Jan 3, 2007

i hate it when appalachian hillfolk tell me im bad at dark souls

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:48

StealthArcher: Jan 10, 2010

I suppose itd mean something if id ever actually played a soulsborne game.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:51

Jamie Faith: Jan 13, 2020

StealthArcher posted:

A shitton of self assured "cazhuls ruinin ma vijemogamz" chat again, wonderful.

Where did anyone complain about casuals?

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:53

Roach Warehouse: Nov 1, 2010

In this thread we only game in business attire during the day, or a lounge suit dress code in the evenings.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 06:55

Solitair: Feb 18, 2014; TODAY'S GONNA BE A GOOD MOTHERFUCKIN' DAY!!!

Quinton: "Because nobody really watches iCarly in-depth, and there's a really good reason for that, but I can't remember what it is." :shepface:

Harrow posted:

He does recommend skipping the pseudo-let's play chapters if the video's just plain too long for you. If you decide to try resuming it, maybe that'll help? Or maybe you're far enough in by now it doesn't matter.

I did stop at a chapter break. It's still in my way too many tabs, so I'll get to it eventually.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 07:25

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Jamie Faith posted:

To me, saying durability ruins your fun is like saying running out of health ruins your fun? Why can't we just have infinite health? Because just blasting thru everything with no challenge would be boring as hell. (sorry, not trying to be snarky. Thats just how I feel) Durability is another piece in the puzzle that is the game's combat system.

This is a good example of the durability argument will never end because I don't view durability anywhere close to the same as health. Nor do I think ammo is the same as durability either (but also ammo is an archaic mechanic and should also be removed from games :colbert:

)

Bloodborne doesn't """ENCOURAGE"""" me to engage with its systems or whatever the hell, it provides me with 500 weapons and is like use them all if you want, stick with the weapon you like if you want.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 07:28

DoctorWhat: Nov 18, 2011; A little privacy, please?

Gwen posted:

eating animations in botw2 would suck unless you get to have full control minus attacking while doing it and link gets full after too much food

there should be a food pocket where you slot curries into and can use them during combat as either healing or projectiles

hire me nintendo

Monster Hunter Rise gives you limited mobility while eating, and you can bail on eating with a dodgeroll. Depending on the item, you may get some or none of the effect and may or may not consume it at all depending on when you cancel the animation.

It feels really good.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 07:30

Roobanguy: May 31, 2011

i honestly like durability in ds2, especially with the 2x durability bug. made me actually switch between different weapons on occasion.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 07:37

Gwen: Aug 17, 2011

imagine link scarfing down food as fast as he can while running away from bokoblins and then having to dump all of it to start climbing and he make a sad face

# ? Jun 17, 2021 07:37

lobster22221: Jul 11, 2017

Doom eternals system encouraged people to swap out weapons by having ammo be limited and adding weakpoints for enemies. Someone pointed out earlier that ammo is not durability, however they fall into the same problem space.

For BotW, My thoughts would be make weapons that are permanent, but breakable/repairable/upgradable, and add some gimmick stuff that not permanent such as leaves/sticks/etc. These also work if you are dumb and break all your weapons

Have dungeons give upgrade materials so that they have a point, and have respawnable map points have repair materials you can either sneak in and steal or just kill everything.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 07:38

Babysitter Super Sleuth: Apr 26, 2012; my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

BotW pretty clearly wanted you to be cycling through weapons rapidly given various mechanics like throwing a weapon for guaranteed crit n such, so I hope they double down on durability and make everything except the master sword a flimsy piece of poo poo that will never last past an engagement and give you more creative ways to obliterate them

# ? Jun 17, 2021 07:41

Archer666: Dec 27, 2008

Durability is cool when its implemented sort of realistically like Arcanum, where it only goes down if you're breaking down doors or fighting stone golems or just do anything that'd break a real weapon. Or in STALKER, where everything's falling apart cause of being overused garbage that people take to the Zone. It's a cool extra challenge that really adds to the experience when done well, but I can get why some more casual players might not be into it.

Can't comment on BotW cause I haven't played a console Nintedo game since N64.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 08:05

dmboogie: Oct 4, 2013

when i played botw i didnt care about weapon durability, what really annoyed the hell out of me was that the 'reward' for clearing most encounters was inventory management

oh, there's a chest in this camp full of enemies i just killed, sweet, what's in it, oh it's a shield and my shield inventory is full so i can't open it, so i have to open up my inventory and pick a shield to drop, so i can open the chest and put a shield into my inventory making it full again

# ? Jun 17, 2021 08:17

nurmie: Dec 8, 2019

Archer666 posted:

Durability is cool when its implemented sort of realistically like Arcanum, where it only goes down if you're breaking down doors or fighting stone golems or just do anything that'd break a real weapon. Or in STALKER, where everything's falling apart cause of being overused garbage that people take to the Zone. It's a cool extra challenge that really adds to the experience when done well, but I can get why some more casual players might not be into it.

yeah imo durability works when it makes sense and adds to the flavour/atmosphere rather than just being a game mechanic. that, and when it's balanced to add to the tension but not so much as being annoying

like in case of Fallout New Vegas (as its been already mentioned itt), durability's present and it's not just for flavour, but it's easy enough to manage - in that it rarely becomes a nuisance or a challenge. however, it makes perfect sense - like yeah, it's a hostile environment, and yeah, guns will jam and break on you if you don't regularly clean and maintain them. it perfectly plays into the mood and the atmosphere of the game without being annoying, and adds another layer of authenticity to the world, which is why it's great. same with STALKER, same with Pathologic 2, same with most other games where durability mechanic is utilised well, imo

plus, FNV has that low-key gun nut thing going on, and weapon durability adds to that too

# ? Jun 17, 2021 08:28

x1o: Aug 5, 2005; My focus is UNPARALLELED!

dmboogie posted:

when i played botw i didnt care about weapon durability, what really annoyed the hell out of me was that the 'reward' for clearing most encounters was inventory management

oh, there's a chest in this camp full of enemies i just killed, sweet, what's in it, oh it's a shield and my shield inventory is full so i can't open it, so i have to open up my inventory and pick a shield to drop, so i can open the chest and put a shield into my inventory making it full again

yeah, it'd be cool if in botw2 took a page out of age of calamities book and let us combine similar weapons to either repair them or make them stronger. got like 4 of the same basic spear? combine them to make a spear+.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 08:32

RareAcumen: Dec 28, 2012

x1o posted:

yeah, it'd be cool if in botw2 took a page out of age of calamities book and let us combine similar weapons to either repair them or make them stronger. got like 4 of the same basic spear? combine them to make a spear+.

Now we're edging closer to making an interesting game! I would love some Dead Rising combinable weapons to use, that would be great! I'd much rather them lean into that direction rather than doubling down further durability and having to put down your horse because its leg broke and Link having to re-set his finger because his sword broke on a bokoblin's shield and he broke his hand as it exploded into sparkles.

But Zelda has been lost in a chasm and my optimism is low. He's barely a character, please go back to having people who are tag along with him. Make Skull Kid haunt him for the entire game or something so there's someone to bounce off of.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 08:38

Yardbomb: Jul 11, 2011; What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

BotW Link's character is how drat cute they made him.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 08:43

Ailumao: Nov 4, 2004

my issue with weapons in botw was i always had a full inventory of them and a lot of chests just had ANOTHER weapon in them that I couldn't fit into my backpack which was super annoying. durability was the only reason i ever had space for another weapon at all.

also when your weapon was almost broken you could chuck it at the enemy which was fun & good.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 08:50

josh04: Oct 19, 2008; "THE FLASH IS THE REASON
TO RACE TO THE THEATRES"
_{This title contains sponsored content.}

durability violates property rights. i own that crossbow and big game government thinks it can just take it right out of my hands.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 09:44

Kennel: May 1, 2008; BAWWW-UNH!

Video games should have durability that goes down if you play them.

e. same for Youtube videos.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 11:16

StealthArcher: Jan 10, 2010

This apologia has been broken for eons.

Nobody here has Jury Rigged for arguments cause its just called gish gallop.

Ben Shapiro.

Snyder Cut.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 11:19

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Neo_Crimson posted:

Didn't he stop making FNAF games a while ago? This is just him just reminding everyone that he already cut and ran with their money.

He has been working with bigger studios and stuff with the vr game and the new one and it honestly wouldn�t shock me if he had been thinking of retiring before he outed himself but now he has an easier time of it I guess or some poo poo.

Pants Donkey posted:

lol at �actually, lgbtq people love me. They�re just out of frame, laughing with me� on that post.

Normally I agree, but judging from Reddit and twitter, I think a lot of zoomer ones do for various reasons.

Alaois posted:

oh i forgot the one non-eastern european game that did weapon durability right, Far Cry 2

So did rdr2. Weapons never break but they get shittier and you have to clean them on and off.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Jun 17, 2021

# ? Jun 17, 2021 11:31

Yardbomb: Jul 11, 2011; What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Dapper_Swindler posted:

So did rdr2. Weapons never break but they get shittier and you have to clean them on and off.

Yeah RDR2 did it fine since it was just another of the sorta cowboy simulation bits, your guns are gonna get dirty living in the wilderness and bumbling around all the place and blowing people away, so an oiling and wiping down once in a while keeps them in good working condition, but even at their worst they're not gonna randomly snap in half and dissolve, just be less accurate, slower refire and all that.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 12:03

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Yardbomb posted:

Yeah RDR2 did it fine since it was just another of the sorta cowboy simulation bits, your guns are gonna get dirty living in the wilderness and bumbling around all the place and blowing people away, so an oiling and wiping down once in a while keeps them in good working condition, but even at their worst they're not gonna randomly snap in half and dissolve, just be less accurate, slower refire and all that.

Yeah. That�s kinda how I prefer my weapon durability. Where it�s a problem but it�s a solvable problem and �realistic�. I dislike the �weapons are temporary power ups� poo poo because while some devs know how to do it, many more don�t.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 12:09

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Update: there's almost 300 replies on the OP

https://twitter.com/jimsterling/status/1405476119520989185?s=21

# ? Jun 17, 2021 12:17

Queer Salutations: Aug 20, 2009; kind of a shitty wizard...

Skyward Sword is the best 3D Zelda game anyways.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 12:21

Mr Phillby: Apr 8, 2009; ~TRAVIS~

Not liking weapon durability in botw is basically the same as not liking the timer in Majoras Mask imo.

# ? Jun 17, 2021 12:50

watho: Aug 2, 2013; The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

weapon durability is good. far cry 2 and dead rising proved that. �but the weapon durability makes those games very annoying� yes and they own because of it

# ? Jun 17, 2021 13:09

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 16:01

bobjr: Oct 16, 2012; Roose is loose.
🐓🐓🐓✊🪧

Mr Phillby posted:

Not liking weapon durability in botw is basically the same as not liking the timer in Majoras Mask imo.

While I appreciated MM more as an adult, games with strict timers like that always stress me out more than they should.

It�s also why I don�t like games with a constant hunger/thirst bar like don�t starve

# ? Jun 17, 2021 13:15

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Rapidly Going Deaf > Online Creators V: I believe it is actually his ass cheek and balls

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