|
Neo Rasa posted:This was the only thing in the episode I kind of didn't get. Like they way they first talk about it it's like it would have to be a real deal like this particular part of the universe has been obliterated or a whole planet blew up kind of situation. They say that the "apocalypse level" is determined by how many people survive the event. Some people survived Asgard. Nobody survived Alabama.
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 06:40 |
|
|
Like, it feels blatantly obvious that the Sacred Timeline is NOT the timeline that works out the best for everybody in some overall utilitarian sense (and even if that were the case, those who suffer "necessary" catastrophes for others' benefit would have some legitimate moral objections). It's pretty obviously "Sacred" because it's the very timeline that installs the Timekeepers in power and wins them the war. History literally being written by the victors.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:21
|
|
|
Terror Sweat posted:The three dudes are some guys who can see the future and are just eliminating every single future that isn't them ruling the universe My baseless speculation is that the "Sacred Timeline" is a bunch of bullshit and that the Timekeepers are only really keeping the MCU sealed off from the rest of the multiverse. The reason they prune the "variant" timelines is because having more than one path weakens their hold on this timeline, and what Lady Loki is trying to do is put the MCU back into the bigger multiverse, for good or ill. thrawn527 posted:So question. If the Avengers were supposed to go back in time, but Loki was not supposed to grab the tessaract, and the TVA pruned that timeline, wouldn’t that undo Cap and Tony going back to the 70's to get the tesseract? They went back because Loki took it, but if the timeline is pruned, wouldn’t they not have gone back? No, because the Timekeepers had already decreed that Steve and Tony would go back to the 70s. No, they did not decree that Loki would escape to Mongolia. We will not be taking any more questions at this time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:22
|
|
|
If we want to get really deep in the weeds here, the Steve and Tony didn't get pruned because they couldn't be--they still had to get the Space Stone somehow because the TVA certainly couldn't just give it back. And it doesn't really matter how they get it, just that they do. Of course, I'm probably putting more thought into this than it deserves because it's a blatant retcon that actually serves the story by existing in that it makes the Timekeepers seem that much more capricious and arbitrary.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:27
|
|
|
I guess the argument could be that Tony and Steve didn't leave enough of a footprint in the 70s to cause a branch (or if they did, it was easily resettable, and they didn't need to be detained as variants because they got back on their path pronto). But lets be real, a lot of this stuff is fuckin calvinball. The timekeepers apparently allowed someone to straight-up kill their own past self, so they clearly don't mind time travel loops and paradoxes as long as the outcome works out. Otherwise, Endgame would have ended the same way Monty Python and the Holy Grail did.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:28
|
|
|
Supercar Gautier posted:The timekeepers apparently allowed someone to straight-up kill their own past self, so they clearly don't mind time travel loops and paradoxes as long as the outcome works out. Bit of a digression but this is Nebula, right? Took me a second to figure out who you were referring to here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:29
|
|
|
Supercar Gautier posted:I guess the argument could be that Tony and Steve didn't leave enough of a footprint in the 70s to cause a branch (or if they did, it was easily resettable, and they didn't need to be detained as variants because they got back on their path pronto). But lets be real, a lot of this stuff is fuckin calvinball. No, the argument is that Cap and Tony already exist in a branch. The one created by Loki stealing the Tesseract. The one pruned by the TVA in Mongolia. Maybe time traveling took them out of the branch? Since the 70s was before the branch was created? I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:31
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Why is the destruction of Asgard a lower level apocalypse event than a hurricane in Alabama? Hurricanes are more powerful than nukes
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:32
|
|
|
Try not to think about time travel in TV shows too hard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:32
|
|
|
I can't wrap my head around incomprehensible comic book logic but im sure gonna burn my biscuits trying
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:33
|
|
|
Invalid Validation posted:Try not to think about time travel in TV shows too hard. This is why Looper is a great movie, it understands that none of this poo poo actually matters
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:33
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:So question. If the Avengers were supposed to go back in time, but Loki was not supposed to grab the tessaract, and the TVA pruned that timeline, wouldn’t that undo Cap and Tony going back to the 70's to get the tesseract? They went back because Loki took it, but if the timeline is pruned, wouldn’t they not have gone back? The point was that Loki was not supposed to escape with or without the Tesseract. That said, the Endgame Avengers were also not suppose to get the Tesseract there in 2012 because the were supposed to go to 1970 to get it. But yeah, it's all Calvinball. The Timekeepers are Calvin Space Lizards.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:34
|
|
|
Arist posted:Bit of a digression but this is Nebula, right? Took me a second to figure out who you were referring to here. Yep. Nebula shooting her past self was a straight-up old-fashioned paradox. So was Thanos' entire army showing up and getting wrecked before they could return to their proper timeline, and an alternate past Gamora showing up and proceeding to live whatever future she's gonna. It all only works if the Sacred Timeline has a few loopy Sacred Branches connecting to 2019.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:34
|
|
|
I guess there were only about 10,000 Asgardians in existence at the time of Ragnarok? And maybe a couple hundred now. Very sad!
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:44
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Watched again. I figure in this case it's because there were explicitly no survivors, whereas we know Asgardians survived.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:56
|
|
|
It’s lower level because they had a retail store set lying around that would cost nothing to use.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:57
|
|
|
Future Nebula killing Past Nebula isn't a paradox, since by the rules set in place by the movie, there not the same person, just two versions for the same person.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 22:59
|
|
|
AngryBooch posted:I guess there were only about 10,000 Asgardians in existence at the time of Ragnarok? And maybe a couple hundred now. Very sad! Thor and Loki are both over 1,500 years old and have no kids. Asgardians are the Pandas of the Nine Realms.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:00
|
|
|
Hellbore posted:Future Nebula killing Past Nebula isn't a paradox, since by the rules set in place by the movie, there not the same person, just two versions for the same person. It's a paradox for a singular unified timeline, which is what the Time-Keepers are all about. It only works if there's a branch stemming from 2014 that's permitted to at least temporarily coexist with the Sacred Timeline. Now if you were to say that past-Nebula and past-Thanos were variants, and that's why killing them was a-ok with the TVA, that could line up. But it would mean past-Gamora is a variant too (maybe they'll follow up on that and feature the TVA in GotG3, idk). Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jun 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:08
|
|
|
Technowolf posted:No, because the Timekeepers had already decreed that Steve and Tony would go back to the 70s. No, they did not decree that Loki would escape to Mongolia. We will not be taking any more questions at this time. The story laid out what's what. It's absolutely okay to not like the rules or the story, but it explained everything necessary for said story, and disappearing up its own ruleset like Shane Carruth isn't what this show needs until it needs it for something, which could be later, as we learn that the "rules" are pretty fascist and terrible or something similar, or it could be never. And it wouldn't be a worse story if it was never. The Avengers were meant to travel through time, therefore time travel isn't what causes multiversal timeline branching if it's "meant" to happen. That's the important information and they gave it to us.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:13
|
|
|
The Avengers were like TVA agents. They go into other timelines unseen and then "reset" everything in the end. The Sacred Timeline is preserved. Loki wasn't going to reset everything after escaping.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:34
|
|
|
MCU TV: CIVIL WAR (OVER JETSKI FINANCING)
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:41
|
|
|
Would it be overly cute if we meet the Timekeepers and they turn out to be Kevin Feige, Victoria Alonso, and Louis D'Esposito?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 23:58
|
|
|
Zero One posted:The Avengers were like TVA agents. They go into other timelines unseen and then "reset" everything in the end. The Sacred Timeline is preserved. But they killed a universe's thanos and his army, how does that not change the timeline completely. No guardians in that universe to stop Ronan or Ego, a massive power vacuum form where he was. Half of Asgard doesn't get killed by him, Loki still lives in that universe!
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 00:01
|
|
|
Steve and/or Peggy are the other agent running jobs for the Judge.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 00:07
|
|
|
Terror Sweat posted:But they killed a universe's thanos and his army, how does that not change the timeline completely. No guardians in that universe to stop Ronan or Ego, a massive power vacuum form where he was. Half of Asgard doesn't get killed by him, Loki still lives in that universe! That was a variant Thanos.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 00:13
|
|
|
KPC_Mammon posted:Isn't Loki 500 pounds? The enchantment gave super strength, a normal human can't lift a frost giant. It's MvC logic. Super powers and godhood withers on the face of successful closing argument. https://youtu.be/-LILhai7IHI
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 00:18
|
|
|
Terror Sweat posted:The three dudes are some guys who can see the future and are just eliminating every single future that isn't them ruling the universe Dune warned us
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 02:11
|
|
|
Terror Sweat posted:But they killed a universe's thanos and his army, how does that not change the timeline completely. No guardians in that universe to stop Ronan or Ego, a massive power vacuum form where he was. Half of Asgard doesn't get killed by him, Loki still lives in that universe! Two possibilities. First, that timeline is not the Sacred Timeline so it got pruned and doesn't exist anyway. Two: All of Thanos's future victims go "Oh, thank Skrull Christ that murdering mother-fucker went bye-bye" and maybe a different team of Guardians formed and stopped Ego and Ronan. Hell, Captain Marvel would still be around. Maybe when they got a little frisky, she showed up and kicked their asses into a black hole.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 03:01
|
|
|
The true plot hole/"this makes no sense" part of this show is that in the first episode Loki said he pulled the DB Cooper stunt when he was "young," but he and Thor are 1000+ years old.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 03:05
|
|
|
TychoCelchuuu posted:The true plot hole/"this makes no sense" part of this show is that in the first episode Loki said he pulled the DB Cooper stunt when he was "young," but he and Thor are 1000+ years old. Maybe they're still "teenagers" in terms of Asgardian lifespans?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 03:06
|
|
|
Thumposaurus posted:MCU TV: CIVIL WAR (OVER JETSKI FINANCING)  thrawn527 posted:So question. If the Avengers were supposed to go back in time, but Loki was not supposed to grab the tessaract, and the TVA pruned that timeline, wouldn’t that undo Cap and Tony going back to the 70's to get the tesseract? They went back because Loki took it, but if the timeline is pruned, wouldn’t they not have gone back? Yes, that's the first meta-textual indication that the TVA isn't as infallible as they claim to be and we should be suspicious of a bunch of soulless, mostly nameless bureaucratic thugs who are run by a conspicuously absent authority while using deliberately outdated technology to visually signify how obsolete their rationale for order is. Like seriously the visual signifiers used here are not subtle guys. Zero One posted:The Avengers were like TVA agents. They go into other timelines unseen and then "reset" everything in the end. The Sacred Timeline is preserved. Also this. Steve went back to clean everything up as best he could, and did. Judging by what the TVA says about Variant Lokis being a persistent problem, they probably have protocol that whenever a Loki does anything outside the norm to just go and round the bastard up because the odds of any version of him fixing things is minimal at best. If anything the weirdest thing is that they haven't instituted a "vaporize on sight" policy for all Lokis.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 03:32
|
|
|
Thundercracker posted:Maybe people got sick of Amazon's abusive practices and actually used the Sherman Act to bust up Amazon. Amazon burns through workers so quickly that executives are worried they'll run out of people to employ, according to a new report
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 03:36
|
|
|
TychoCelchuuu posted:The true plot hole/"this makes no sense" part of this show is that in the first episode Loki said he pulled the DB Cooper stunt when he was "young," but he and Thor are 1000+ years old. He can change his outward appearance and age at will. I mean this is the same Loki who disguised himself as his father for who knows how long.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 03:38
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:He can change his outward appearance and age at will. I mean this is the same Loki who disguised himself as his father for who knows how long.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 04:33
|
|
|
TychoCelchuuu posted:Being disguised as an old person doesn't make you old! That depends entirely in the quality of your disguise.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 04:48
|
|
|
Hellbore posted:That depends entirely in the quality of your disguise. perhaps if you were disguised in some fine asgardian leathers.... now we're talkin
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 05:24
|
|
goku i won't do what u tell me
|
Nerds have argued time travel for a myriad. We have some primers here for the discussion ahead Things of Interest with a quick writeup summary https://qntm.org/models And the minutephysics video https://youtu.be/d3zTfXvYZ9s
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 05:34
|
|
|
KRILLIN IN THE NAME posted:perhaps if you were disguised in some fine asgardian leathers.... now we're talkin Figure when he was disguised as Odin, King of Asgard, Loki was rockin' some drat fine Asgardian leather.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 05:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 06:40 |
|
|
AngryBooch posted:I guess there were only about 10,000 Asgardians in existence at the time of Ragnarok? And maybe a couple hundred now. Very sad! You know, I think the TVA was probably lazy about that deathcount; most of the deaths related to Ragnarok were probably people killed by Hela and her minions. Thor had pretty clearly evacuated Asgard by the time it was torched. Then Thanos and his crew wiped out most of the rest.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 06:11
|
|
