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Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



I played some hours of Anthem, now that it's on Gamepass, and I could only think how crazy it is that that small indie games like Gunfire were better, despite the big number of years and millions of dollars.

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Im_Special
Jan 2, 2011

Look At This!!! WOW!
It's F*cking Nothing.
Gunfire on suicide watch? Okay, probably not, as Gunfire still has cats and puppies.

But in totally unrelated news to Gunfire, :siren: RoboQuest :siren: just got a massive update today, I haven't messed with it yet and way too tired right now to even pares those words, but I know there was some talk about this game a few pages back here with some issues a few (and me) had with it, so maybe it's better now? Worth re-checking out for us Gunfire players who like these kind of games anyway, you know like, when switching that chicken up sometimes to tuna, to keep things interesting, right?

Aaaand the UPDATE notes. (I ain't going to copy/paste that giant wall of text here, don't you worry.)

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



When is the next content update? Not soon enough :/

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1217060/view/3050602862757980795
There are several weapon, scrolls and hero balance changes inside. Some of them are pretty good.



quote:

The next major update, which includes a new hero, a new boss, new weapons and more, will be released this summer. Please stay tuned.

Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Apr 29, 2021

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



New talents coming apart from a new hero
https://twitter.com/GunfireReborn/status/1396394982995419137

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

I want the last hero to be the innkeeper

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


In some lobbies I see people with the numbers on their name on fire, does anybody know how you get that effect?

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽

WarpedLichen posted:

In some lobbies I see people with the numbers on their name on fire, does anybody know how you get that effect?


When did you buy the game? If after December then you are out of luck.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1217060/view/2918859890108273954

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Harminoff posted:

When did you buy the game? If after December then you are out of luck.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1217060/view/2918859890108273954

Ah thanks, glad to know I didn't miss some sort of hidden challenge.

cage-free egghead
Mar 8, 2004
Edit: nm

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1217060/view/3010073003003529523

quote:

Based on the current development progress, we decide to release the major update in mid-June.
The new features in this major update include: a long-anticipated heroine, a new random boss in Act 3, new weapons and adjustments to some legacy weapons, new occult scrolls and Talent 2.0. We're still tweaking and adjusting the new content, especially the new talent system.


I'm curious of what the talent 2.0 will be. It doesn't sound like just adding a few more talents. So is it going to be a more comprehensive rework? Try to make the game less dependent on metaprogression maybe?

Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 16:46 on May 28, 2021

Evil Kit
May 29, 2013

I'm viable ladies.

Currently the talents range from boring "more stats" to gameplay changes that make you think "why didn't the hero have this before?". I'd be interested to see if they have some parallel talent trees where you can only take 1 talent per tier that lets you specialize more in a particular playstyle direction for each character.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



IMO right now the metaprogression with the talents is too strong, and you can notice it because once you have enough of them, the early game is way too easy, trivial even. But you can't ignore them or the late game will kick your rear end; so right now there isn't a way to enjoy the 100% of a run. Both the difficulty progression between levels and the metaprogression should be reduced somehow.

The new character seems to have an enchanted/living flying sword, so it could work a bit like a pet, accompanying you and automatically attacking enemies around you. Same concept as Dead Cell's Serenade.

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

I've been playing this for a bit in some 4man runs and I like it so far. I was looking forward to playing the bird because I like high-mobility aggressive characters, but I feel like I've only found one way of playing him, which is stacking a bunch of cleave/leap talents until I hopefully luck into finding some unrelated high-damage gimmick that doesn't interact with his class abilities/talents at all. Maybe I just haven't found a good cleave build yet, but it doesn't really feel like you can exactly start cleaving the sandworm or ghost ship either

It also doesn't help that half the time someone gets a build that clears trash more safely and effectively than the bird guy

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer
The bird is my least favorite for multiplayer indeed, you either get a cleave damage build off the ground and suck all the air out of the room for the others, or fail to get last hits/talents and just kind of waffle around at the mercy of weapon and talent rng. If you can get enough of the shotgun talents that can also be pretty effective.

Osmosisch fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Jun 1, 2021

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Bird is my favorite character, I love his play style but he struggles even when I'm playing together with one another friend.
Works great solo tho.

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

I feel like it'd free up a lot of versatility for him if he didn't need to stack Easy Kill from the start. Right now he seems to turn into a melee monster every time in solo, but he can't do that in multiplayer so he fails to find a real place on the team. Maybe if they removed Easy Kill entirely and increased the scaling on his Cleave talents altogether?

Easy Kill could also be baseline and give +1.5 damage per enemy cleaved so it'd be more consistent in its scaling.

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Jun 1, 2021

Evil Kit
May 29, 2013

I'm viable ladies.

The problem with Cleave builds is it's talent dependent with how absolutely necessary it is to get certain talents to level 3 depending on the number of people you play with. Easy Kill is very nice and helps to get early but the real important ones are the +Cleave %Dmg, Max Cleave, and Defensive Cleave preferably all at level 3. A couple levels of Absolute Advantage help immensely too for CC and hitting bosses from a safer distance too. Actually getting those to show up is entirely RNG dependent and even if you get a floor 1 Easy Kill pick if you don't get any of the +Cleave %Dmg you won't scale hard enough.


Still my favorite character and build, hyper aggression is the best fighting style.

Arzaac
Jan 2, 2020


I've honestly never liked his cleave build, I always feel like unless the stars align I just don't do enough damage with Cleave. My favorite way to play him is as an immortal shotgun god; you pick up Leap and Cleave talents that increase your defense/heal you/increase gun damage, and then the offensive shotgun talents. Then you can just leap into battle, near immortal, and kill everything with shotguns.

IMO it works pretty well in multiplayer too.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Arzaac posted:

I've honestly never liked his cleave build, I always feel like unless the stars align I just don't do enough damage with Cleave. My favorite way to play him is as an immortal shotgun god; you pick up Leap and Cleave talents that increase your defense/heal you/increase gun damage, and then the offensive shotgun talents. Then you can just leap into battle, near immortal, and kill everything with shotguns.

IMO it works pretty well in multiplayer too.

There's something I don't quite understand with the enemy health scaling in MP. In single player you can go full leap and become basically immortal with resets on kills but in MP you leap in, deal tickle damage, and die.

It feels like stacking the crap out of gun damage is really where it's at and the bird suffers a little for it.

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

WarpedLichen posted:

There's something I don't quite understand with the enemy health scaling in MP. In single player you can go full leap and become basically immortal with resets on kills but in MP you leap in, deal tickle damage, and die.

It feels like stacking the crap out of gun damage is really where it's at and the bird suffers a little for it.

That may be the case in 4 player, but I exclusively play 2 player and am used to bird leap build making me completely irrelevant even with an optimal-build dog and scoring 6-7x the damage easy. So maybe not at lower MP scaling.

Arzaac
Jan 2, 2020


Back when I played multiplayer I was doing it 4-man and it worked out pretty well for me. It wasn't like I could blatantly walk into every attack and come out unscathed, but I was definitely durable enough to survive in melee combat for a while.

Evil Kit
May 29, 2013

I'm viable ladies.

The few times I've done 4 player co-op honestly the most valuable contribution I did as Bird was just take the heat off my three other buddies by just being stuck in and never dying. You can absolutely get a cleave build going and getting tanky via scrolls is super simple when you have 4 people to share scrolls around but it feels way worse for bosses.

I enjoyed shotgun Bird the few times I did it but it really does feel like you need one of a handful of shotguns that have actually good inscriptions. Cleave build is simpler if more binary since all you need is the right talents. Bird is def the only Hero that can currently be entirely gun agnostic though, the others really rely on guns eventually.

edit: and nothing beats the high of literally slapping bosses to death with your wings.

Arzaac
Jan 2, 2020


IMO it helps that Shotgun Bird doesn't really need a shotgun. For the most part his gun damage ascensions just require a weapon with huge damage per shot, so he can work pretty well with Snipers, Launchers, and even Pistols to an extent. Only one ascension, Victory Rush, explicitly requires a shotgun, and even then you can get around that with certain inscriptions.

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

I did finally get a good shotgun build on the bird, with enough Leap ascensions to constantly spam it for extra armor and damage res as I dove around firing my Wild Hunt a zillion times a second. Also unlocked the lightning tiger fella, who seems very strong with some very verbose ascensions

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

https://i.imgur.com/x6VO6sQ.mp4

https://i.imgur.com/DnsN5VU.mp4

lol bird

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



LOL

But that seems more cause by whatever scrolls combo you had.

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

So does the enemy count not scale by players correctly or something? Been playing duos the whole time so far, another friend got the game to play with us, but there were still so few enemies the dude barely got to shoot anything before it was dead. I'm used to that experience in duos but figured it would at least somewhat scale up - didn't seem to be any extra enemies at all, though, nor extra health on the enemies that were there.

Evil Kit
May 29, 2013

I'm viable ladies.

there should be some health inflation, but if you're playing on Normal and you're pretty far into the Talent tree it's not really going to be noticeable. Once you hit Elite or Nightmare the health inflation starts becoming a lot more noticeable, especially when you get more enemy modifiers that boost health/armor/shields.


Also your friend is just starting out and not having access to talents just makes it more noticeable how much faster you kill things. This even comes down to a knowledge thing of knowing what weapon inscriptions are best etc, it really makes a difference.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

https://i.imgur.com/u1nUvYI.mp4

fun build

Im_Special
Jan 2, 2011

Look At This!!! WOW!
It's F*cking Nothing.
Summer Update is live! - The First Female Hero [Tao] Meets You in the Summer Version

Rejoice people with rabbit fetishes!

---

EDIT: So much, make it stop, need coffee...

This is a really big update, lots of juicy things in it, obviously the new hero Tao, but also comes with that highly anticipated revamped talents (gotta click on all those buttons again, ugh), has a new "reincarnation" difficulty now with up to x7 levels (need to beat nightmare to unlock, so it must be pretty tough at level 7), and this difficulty come with two new NPCs to spend your souls on, buy enhanced weapons, occult scroll & "spiritual blessing".:airquote:. Oh my!

Im_Special fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jun 18, 2021

Evil Kit
May 29, 2013

I'm viable ladies.

Hm... I'm not sure how I feel about the talent revamp. They combined some redundant talents, added some brand new ones that look interesting, and got rid of talents that eventually became pointless. The pointless ones, unfortunately, were the ones that boosted how many souls you got each run and now you need even more than amount of souls you needed to finish up the talent tree + all hero talents. I can't imagine the grind now.

That said, the new weapons look real fun and some of the new talents seem genuinely interesting!

Also the new hero looks actually pretty fun... just uh, make sure to save 400 souls to unlock her.

Arzaac
Jan 2, 2020


Lots of good stuff in this update.

I wasn't too invested in the talent tree update except for one talent: the copper on crit hit talent. And thankfully, they revamped it in an excellent way! It looks like you get a fixed amount of copper the first time you crit an enemy, meaning fast weapons no longer have an innate economy advantage! There is some other cool stuff in there too though, like the ability to trash scrolls/weapons you don't like for copper, an increase to the base damage of damaging scrolls, and a couple of talents that grant unique buffs depending on weapon type (reload speed for launchers, critx for snipers, movespeed for melee, and so on). Though I really think the coolest new one is the ability to add new inscriptions to existing weapons. That goes a long way towards the problem of finding an excellent weapon in zone 1 and dropping it because 2 inscriptions just doesn't compete with 4 + Gemini.

As for Tao, she seems pretty cool. Her primary's super weird; it builds up charges when not on cooldown based on ammo consumed, and unleashes all those charges in a flurry when cast. It's also got an extremely quick cooldown of 3.9 seconds, so it's extremely spammable! Her secondary deals AoE damage and marks all enemies in the area; for every 12 times you hit a marked enemy, it redeals the damage. She's definitely focused around fast firing weapons, which makes sense, given that we already have characters focused around Snipers/Shotguns/Explosives. She's also kind of strange in that she's easily the character most focused around her skills. As you might expect, she's got an ascension tree based around her grenade and one around her primary. Her third tree is based around enhancing her gunplay, but they all revolve around her other skills. It's all "for each flying sword summoned" or "for each stack of blade heart" or "when you kill a marked enemy", with exactly one talent that doesn't have anything to do with her skills. I haven't played with her much, but she's definitely very interesting.

Oh also, maybe this is just me, but I'm not a fan of how she looks. Every other character has a face that's very heavily based off their animal, you know? They've got muzzles and snouts and beaks and whatnot. Tao just kinda has a regular human face and it's very off-putting.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Evil Kit posted:

Hm... I'm not sure how I feel about the talent revamp. They combined some redundant talents, added some brand new ones that look interesting, and got rid of talents that eventually became pointless. The pointless ones, unfortunately, were the ones that boosted how many souls you got each run and now you need even more than amount of souls you needed to finish up the talent tree + all hero talents. I can't imagine the grind now.


My impressions later, but it seems now you don't lose the spare talent points per run, at least, so that's something.

Arzaac posted:



Oh also, maybe this is just me, but I'm not a fan of how she looks. Every other character has a face that's very heavily based off their animal, you know? They've got muzzles and snouts and beaks and whatnot. Tao just kinda has a regular human face and it's very off-putting.

You know people are gonna waifu her. The devs also know it.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



.... I should have saved the 400 points to unlock the rabbit while spending them again. Ops.

Still, reading the descriptions, it seems she will have an affinity with high RoF weapons. SMGs and similar, I guess.

edit : with her second talent, she will be potentially the fatest character?
"2.Galloping Speed: For each enemy you kill, +10% movement speed for 8s (up to 5 layers)"

Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Jun 18, 2021

Evil Kit
May 29, 2013

I'm viable ladies.

Turin Turambar posted:

My impressions later, but it seems now you don't lose the spare talent points per run, at least, so that's something.

You know people are gonna waifu her. The devs also know it.

I literally did one run before going to bed and realized this. No longer losing souls when you start a new run is huge!! One of my major issues with the game, gone up in smoke.


Also people are gonna waifu her, but I actually kinda agree with Arzaac, she'd look way better (and in theme) if her face was a bit more... fluffy maybe? Her nose def looks like a rabbit's but that's about it. Slightly uncanny valley feel overall.


edit: I warned you bro, I told you about those souls bro!!!

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



The changelog doesn't mention it, but... is the difficulty of the game the same? Or is it adjusted?
Because I didn't know there were people having an easy time in Nightmare difficulty (*cough* I still haven't beaten Elite) as to need a new difficulty, and even more, with 7 tiers!, which I guess are Ascensions like in Spire, increasing in difficulty more and more.

I was wondering that it would make more sense if they have decreased the difficulty gap between Normal and Elite and Elite and Nightmare.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Turin Turambar posted:

My impressions later, but it seems now you don't lose the spare talent points per run, at least, so that's something.


My impressions now: Yeah, I also don't like how they have increased the metaprogression/grind.

Yes, now they have removed Dimension Pouch and gave its effect for free

That's nice, but the Pouch wasn't that expensive, you only needed to buy the first tier, so that removal isn't enough to compensate they have removed the one that gave you extra essence for bosses


Now add that there are more talents to unlock (around 11 more), add that the last tier seems more expensive, and add that the new character costs 400 essence. I really dislike the last part, with the other characters you could increase your power by getting talents and as a extra you unlocked new heroes when reaching x level. With the rabbit, you have to stop investing in talents and instead spend that currency you gain on just unlocking her.

Im_Special
Jan 2, 2011

Look At This!!! WOW!
It's F*cking Nothing.
That new Scroll sure is an interesting one.

Broken Gun - Effect: End Run

Arzaac
Jan 2, 2020


Eh, it's better than old Elemental Curse on Crown Prince. Nothing like just rendering half your ascensions completely useless. :v:

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Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



I've been playing a few public coop runs, it seems with the update there are more people online.

The game is, surprise, easier in coop. In fact I just have beaten the game easily in Elite, and before I hadn't even reached the Fjord stage.
In coop there are more enemies and they are more tanky (they also do more damage? not sure of this part), but with several players you can be revived, you have an easier time against enemies with shields, and obviously you can use elemental combos constantly. This three features compensate easily the higher enemy difficulty.

And as a bonus, you gain a bit more essence because there are a few more enemies.

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