|
homercles posted:Targeted ads when done correctly benefit everyone involved, platform / vendor / consumer. I load Beat Saber on my Quest 2 and get targeted ads (for their new lovely music packs), only uproar was that the Interscope offering was so limited. Exactly. People who don't work in ad space at all have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to how these things actually work and do help customers find products. They just have the experience of lovely ad providers done poorly so they assume blindly this will be the normal case in VR. Jack Trades posted:You know who else needs the money? Me. Will the devs be passing on some of that ad revenue on to me via lowered game prices? gently caress no they won't, ergo gently caress 'em. I'm not a charity. Yep and if developers can make money via ads game prices can go down. Yeah EA is going to gently caress you still, we know this. But if you think this wont factor into launch prices down the road, you're crazy. The cheaper a game is the easier it is to sell, and if the devs are making some of that initial back off ads, they can lower starting prices. You forget, these "bastard devs" like resolution give out 100s and 100s of copies of these games so people just play them and something like this lets them get some kickback on those hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of free copies they poo poo out to people. mutata posted:Is "sucking them up" standard terminology in the industry or just something you like to be personally gross about? How is being optimistic about something sucking up? Cool. Glad you have any actual valid argument so far to anything ive said about being positive towards ads. Fact is im right.
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 21:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 05:10 |
|
|
lol "sucking them up" was your words that you used, you dense weirdo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 21:27
|
|
|
Lol a lot of people forget Cambridge Analytica and how targeted ads hosed with idiot voters. "It's just HDDs!!"
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 21:27
|
|
|
Holy poo poo people simping for ads and privacy invasion. Wild
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 21:28
|
|
|
Skyarb posted:Holy poo poo people simping for ads and privacy invasion. Wild I'm "simping" for the idea that ads can be fine without ruining poo poo, simple as that. Data gathering, all that, i mean its an entirely different discussion to me. mutata posted:lol "sucking them up" was your words that you used, you dense weirdo. Case of RCP for me. I swear i read that as "sucking up to them". See, I can admit when I am wrong. Shock. Still don't change im right tho. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 21:30
|
|
|
Corin Tucker's Stalker posted:I'll never understand people who respond to bad things with "it's not that bad / everyone does it / just deal with it". There's literally no reason to argue in favor of things becoming incrementally worse for everyone so a tiny pool of people can make a profit, but here we are. I think coming from a place that isn't "this in particular isn't a problem" but more that it's not a unique problem. In a lot of ways these criticisms boil down to "capitalism is bad" which, yeah, it is, but I think it becomes a more useful criticism when you're focusing on the specific reasons why it's inordinately bad as opposed to something more general. That said I think that the criticisms about Facebook doing ads and stuff right now is actually really short sighted. I don't think that ads/tracking is their main goal, at least in the short term. They're pretty clearly thinking that VR is going to be the next big platform, and they're trying to position themselves to own that platform in the same way that Apple and Google own the smartphone platform. Getting 30% of everything that happens on your phone is insane. Right now Facebook is worth a little under 1 trillion, Apple is worth 2.2, and Google is worth 1.6. That's what they want, and the investments they're making in hardware and software is how they get there. In that sense I think their buyouts of devs and stuff are a lot more dangerous, but the problem is that nobody else is even trying to contest them on that front. If other companies were, then it would matter a lot less if Facebook was trying to be intrusive with ads and tracking, because people would have an alternative to move to. As long as they're the only people who give a poo poo about VR, there's not much anyone can do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 21:31
|
|
|
I hope the ads are like interactive. Like when the slap chop ad comes on you get a table with almonds and walnuts and you put the nuts in the cover and use one finger, or you can use your whole hand if you want, and chop that poo poo up. Add an oreo and slap that and it'll look beautiful on your ice cream.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 21:33
|
|
|
Don't worry, guys! Facebook stealing your data and sabotaging boomers' brains and ripping the fabric of society will make games cheaper they won't so it's all worth it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 21:33
|
|
|
mutata posted:Don't worry, guys! Facebook stealing your data and sabotaging boomers' brains and ripping the fabric of society will make games cheaper they won't so it's all worth it. So its not about the ads for you, its about facebook being evil? Can we just have a facebook is evil megathread we can post a link to anytime anyone complains about it? Leal posted:I hope the ads are like interactive. Like when the slap chop ad comes on you get a table with almonds and walnuts and you put the nuts in the cover and use one finger, or you can use your whole hand if you want, and chop that poo poo up. Add an oreo and slap that and it'll look beautiful on your ice cream. I secretly hope that some of them have experience inside the experience. Like a rabbit hole of ads, that each portal takes you into a new ad world. TIDE COLD WATER PARK then you go into MOUTNAIN DEW WORLD, then into KFC COUNTRY! EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jun 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 21:35
|
|
|
EbolaIvory posted:Yep and if developers can make money via ads game prices can go down. Yeah EA is going to gently caress you still, we know this. But if you think this wont factor into launch prices down the road, you're crazy. The cheaper a game is the easier it is to sell, and if the devs are making some of that initial back off ads, they can lower starting prices. You forget, these "bastard devs" like resolution give out 100s and 100s of copies of these games so people just play them and something like this lets them get some kickback on those hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of free copies they poo poo out to people. Oh yeah, "trickle down economics", sure thing pal. I'm sure your opinion is in no way biased here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:01
|
|
|
FilthyImp posted:Lol a lot of people forget Cambridge Analytica and how targeted ads hosed with idiot voters. Skyarb posted:Holy poo poo people simping for ads and privacy invasion. Wild Also the opinions of goons(/redditors) is incredibly niche, everyone was rabidly against facebook's Quest 2 and yet who dominates the platform now through affordability and convenience through being untethered? The views of goons reflect the views of the average consumer through pure chance.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:04
|
|
|
If Google Earth can somehow integrate with real estate vendors, let me zoom into city see whats for sale then VR look at 360 internal shots of a property WIll never happen but that commercial integration would be AMAZING.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:10
|
|
|
Jack Trades posted:Oh yeah, "trickle down economics", sure thing pal. I'm sure your opinion is in no way biased here. Its not an opinion, I work with devs regularly, you think these talks dont come up? I'm bias in the sense that I can see potential here. Simple as that. homercles posted:Not arguing in favour of it, merely stating that if done right it should not raise the hackles of VR users. Most goons aint typical consumers in general. Niche internet forum filled with nerds and enthusiasts. Karen is the consumer, not goons. homercles posted:If Google Earth can somehow integrate with real estate vendors, let me zoom into city see whats for sale then VR look at 360 internal shots of a property Imagine that. "Zillow" or someone makes a VR app, thats driven by current prices, listings, etc, that has ad sense that can give you an idea of things you would want, with VR walkthroughs and poo poo and a google maps tie in? Holy poo poo right? Could have the billboards update and stuff with current products on the street view stuff. SO MUCH STUFF EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jun 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:12
|
|
|
EbolaIvory posted:DEVS need money too. Ads can be done without hurting the game/experience or player. But ok. Yeah? And I don't give a poo poo about the devs that need ad revenue to pay the bills. In before times that wasn't the case, lots of developers now don't require or use ads or even outside monetary influence to create their art. Why is it now, because they can do ads, that they should be allowed ads without criticism? There is no good answer you have besides 'sucking it down' already (wtf), or that they aren't that bad, or 'you could know about NEW PRODUCT though!'. Advertising serves only to make money for the companies running the ads, it does not help the consumer at all. It does not help the arts, culture, humanity or your everyday life. EbolaIvory posted:Can we just have a facebook is evil megathread we can post a link to anytime anyone complains about it? You need a facebook account to use your virtual reality device, you don't really get to separate them. Now facebook is talking about ads in the very games we talk about in this thread, is that now not a good enough topic to talk about? I'd rather this not be the case buddy but this poo poo is intrinsically linked now and it will never, ever be separated. Facebook is Oculus, and they want to make very, very sure you know this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:17
|
|
|
"Most consumers don't care" is also a huge part of the problem, yes, I agree.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:18
|
|
|
So I bought a wifi 6 router and wow what a difference it made for Airlink/VD. My old setup would take several minutes for VD to connect but now it’s connected as soon as I open the app. No more stutters or qualify drops. While I’m at it, are there any good VR specific sites / archives? I feel like I run into the same videos over and over on YouTube.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:21
|
|
|
KakerMix posted:Yeah? And I don't give a poo poo about the devs that need ad revenue to pay the bills. Are you an artist at all? Do you create things, and rely on people to buy them to pay your bills? No? I ask because you clearly don't give a poo poo if a studio lives or dies. Because if you did you'd realize what the potential here is for them. Its not all EPIC GAMES and BETHESDA with 900 billion dollars making games. You know some of these companies are 2 dudes who barely can afford to pay rent right? Yet still poo poo out a wonderful game that could use some funding? Once again, let me point this out. This entire ad thing can benefit developers a lot more than you think. Nobody said that its going to be perfect. In fact, if you read my posts, you'd see that I 100% agree that it can be done poorly, and probably will in some titles. Those titles, will end themselves with it, and it wont be a problem, why? Because it was done poorly and the issue will take care of itself. I'm personally excited for the POSITIVE use cases for them, when its actually done correctly. Passive ads have always been a thing. You think that pepsi can in the movie was a fluke and thats just what was on set? Maybe focus less on raging on facebook and actually thinking about the possible applications. 2 sides to every coin and all that. And yeah, The facebook thing, It can be in the god drat op. Get over it. We know you hate facebook, they are evil, bla bla bla.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:28
|
|
|
I hope the devs see you defending them and give you more press copies, dude.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:32
|
|
|
Jack Trades posted:I hope the devs see you defending them and give you more press copies, dude. Press copies? We're much bigger than that these days friend. I dont "stream" or whatever anymore. We're working on way bigger poo poo with way more people. Can't wait to talk about some of it! Yay NDAs and contracts! Again, I don't tend to just talk from my rear end my dude. Its why I am where I am. I don't talk about poo poo unless its facts, or I can prove it.
EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jun 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:35
|
|
|
EbolaIvory posted:Press copies? If your posting was an attempt at sneakily building demand for some new vr ad-block technology I could believe it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:37
|
|
|
If he streamed it would be just the ads, so not sure what the point would be. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:38
|
|
|
This is maybe the worst discussion on the entirety of the forums right now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:38
|
|
|
EbolaIvory posted:Press copies? Oh, I see. So all of that was literally just you publicly sucking your own dick then?
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:43
|
|
|
I find all the people saying ads have never been a positive for any consumer for any reason really hilarious. I listen to so many podcasts that wouldn't continue to exist without advertising, watch free streaming channels that wouldn't exist without advertising, etc... I never had cable as a kid, so all the television I watched was only possible through advertising. I'm also a game developer, and while I'm not planning to bring ads to my VR game I'm probably going to have a free ad-supported option when I put out a flat mobile version of the game. Certainly advertising can be terrible and it's definitely super lovely to purchase a game and then have ads added later, but for the most part you'll know ahead of time if a game has advertising and you can choose whether that's a deal breaker for you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:44
|
|
|
Jack Trades posted:Oh, I see. So all of that was literally just you publicly sucking your own dick then? If I post about something, and say I know what im talking about, Random goon #5 will say "U DUNNO poo poo" If I post proof, or speak of being an expert or in the industry, "Im sucking my own dick". Tip posted:I find all the people saying ads have never been a positive for any consumer for any reason really hilarious. Every single one of them has bought poo poo because of an ad. Ignorant hypocrisy is all that is. Jim Silly-Balls posted:This is maybe the worst discussion on the entirety of the forums right now. No, the facebook shits the worst. That horse is literally rotting and these dumbasses are still beating it to death. EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Jun 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:46
|
|
|
Jim Silly-Balls posted:This is maybe the worst discussion on the entirety of the forums right now. This is tame compared to how the thread used to be, all the time
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:48
|
|
|
in Pop:1 there is faux fast food restaurant called pops chik'n or something, and it's a well known location. From day one I was wondering why that wasn't a KFC. Or maybe it could be a rotating sponsorship, carls jr. one week and Krusty burger the next.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:56
|
|
|
EbolaIvory posted:If I post proof, or speak of being an expert or in the industry, "Im sucking my own dick". Jim Silly-Balls posted:This is maybe the worst discussion on the entirety of the forums right now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:56
|
|
|
So did anyone play Flow Weaver? I'd had my eye on it but there's like, no reviews for it on steam. Except one german guy who recommends it but I've no idea if that's good or not.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 22:59
|
|
|
homercles posted:Hit me up in PMs, I am a believer in this No PMs. I'm findable tho. Easily. Jim Silly-Balls posted:Find me……online, to talk about sucking our own dicks Ya, What can I say. I've posted my poo poo in these threads enough that if you dunno how to contact me , its in this thread for sure. Plus, I'm not trying to get everyone to share sucking dicks stories. EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jun 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 23:04
|
|
|
EbolaIvory posted:No PMs. Find me……online, to talk about sucking our own dicks
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 23:06
|
|
|
EbolaIvory posted:Are you an artist at all? lmao, clearly, you have no idea who I am or what I do. That's cool, that's fine. I just want you to know you couldn't be more wrong about your assessment of my internet posting career and/or character. Tip posted:I find all the people saying ads have never been a positive for any consumer for any reason really hilarious. I listen to so many podcasts that wouldn't continue to exist without advertising, watch free streaming channels that wouldn't exist without advertising, etc...
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 23:10
|
|
|
Ebola, I think your posts would be much more well received if they didn’t give off the air of a D-List celebrity trying to prove they’re a C-list celebrity.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 23:16
|
|
|
The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > VR Megathread: You physically have to perform a self-suck now. Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 23:38
|
|
|
KakerMix posted:lmao, clearly, you have no idea who I am or what I do. That's cool, that's fine. I just want you to know you couldn't be more wrong about your assessment of my internet posting career and/or character. You're right. Your post history in this thread is simply "bought headset" and stuff. Which is why I asked. So instead of you saying "yeah im an artist i do this" you just said im wrong. Read your post again and tell me that it dont come off selfish as poo poo and you give zero fucks about the companies making things you enjoy. Then turn around and tell me how I could assume you're an artist at all with that lovely mentality? Jim Silly-Balls posted:Ebola, I think your posts would be much more well received if they didn’t give off the air of a D-List celebrity trying to prove they’re a C-list celebrity. Theres really no "good" way to be on the other side of the facebook/ad thing. At somethingawful.com you either hate facebook and all that it does, or you're a zuck simp.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 23:38
|
|
|
EbolaIvory posted:Games have had paid ads forever. Death Stranding is a giant monster ad. Did it hurt gameplay? Nope. You drank monster. There's a difference between ads that have been vetted and agreed on by the content creator and intentionally worked into the final product in a way that meshes with everything else (even if it's done inelegantly) and dynamic algorithm-driven ads that exist free of developer intention or context beyond placement. EbolaIvory posted:Are you an artist at all? But... the only place ads have really been successful outside of the mobile market (which is an entirely different beast and not really applicable to VR gaming for a variety of reasons) is in games with massive budgets, because they actually reach enough of an audience to make a notable impact. If a two-person studio sells enough copies for ad revenue to make a meaningful difference, they already blew past "barely able to pay rent" way earlier, and if they only sell a few thousand copies, virtual dynamic billboards aren't gonna push them into the black. Tip posted:I find all the people saying ads have never been a positive for any consumer for any reason really hilarious. I listen to so many podcasts that wouldn't continue to exist without advertising, watch free streaming channels that wouldn't exist without advertising, etc... This is all true, but it still remains the case that advertising relies heavily on scale. Podcasts and streaming channels continuously pump out content (and sponsorships tend to be more lucrative than pre-roll ads), while TV reaches an absolutely massive number of people. VR just ain't reaching that many people with that level of consistency.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 23:39
|
|
|
sethsez posted:There's a difference between ads that have been vetted and agreed on by the content creator and intentionally worked into the final product in a way that meshes with everything else (even if it's done inelegantly) and dynamic algorithm-driven ads that exist free of developer intention or context beyond placement. Correct, and if everyone actually looking into this ad thing would see that developers have control over ad providers. This means things like the "monster can" can end up a "redbull can" instead. Ads are more than just a flashing gif on a billboard folks. sethsez posted:But... the only place ads have really been successful outside of the mobile market (which is an entirely different beast and not really applicable to VR gaming for a variety of reasons) is in games with massive budgets, because they actually reach enough of an audience to make a notable impact. If a two-person studio sells enough copies for ad revenue to make a meaningful difference, they already blew past "barely able to pay rent" way earlier, and if they only sell a few thousand copies, virtual dynamic billboards aren't gonna push them into the black. Stop focusing on billboards. Something like Pop1 has energy drinks. Redbull can pay that company a ton of money to slap a logo on an already existing item in the game. They get paid, users mostly don't notice, and the ones that do go "heh cool" because its a real thing. (yes, Im focusing on the redbull/monster can thing a lot, its a really good example of well placed ads) Theres so much that can be done, that is technically an ad, that people are really freaking out over nothing so far.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 23:43
|
|
|
EbolaIvory posted:Correct, and if everyone actually looking into this ad thing would see that developers have control over ad providers. This means things like the "monster can" can end up a "redbull can" instead. Ads are more than just a flashing gif on a billboard folks. You're free to like that stuff but it completely takes me out of the experience personally and I absolutely hate it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2021 23:48
|
|
|
Mischievous Mink posted:You're free to like that stuff but it completely takes me out of the experience personally and I absolutely hate it. Yeah. This is a big part of the reason why I'm really not very worried about ads like this, it completely obliterates the feel and I can't really imagine anything that is either built from the ground up with that kind of ad being part of the experience, or that kind of ad being added in later, as being successful. Facebook buying up all the good developers and getting further and further ahead with understanding the medium and how to leverage it better, however...
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2021 00:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 05:10 |
|
|
Before people start discussing the nature of capitalism in long posts, and make passive aggressive attacks on other people, I think I'm going to try make a more level headed post: -Developers can implement whatever in their games, and we consumers will judge the games, with our wallets. They may put ads in their game making it worse, but it isn't that different to putting a gameplay feature that ends up being bad or having amateur art. It's just a series of things that will make me not buy/refund it. Ads is just another item in the list of things to be judged. Not that different than for example 'not having difficulty options'. Hell, chances are, that may be a bigger deal breaker for me than having ads, as it may make the entire game unusable (speaking of anti consumer...). I don't like nba 2k parade of lootboxes, but I don't write endless tirades about it, I just don't buy the game. -A different discussion is when developers release a game and later, in an (obligatory) Internet update they change it heavily. It may be a radical change in the gameplay, or it may be introducing ads like this by surprise. That's a much more delicate issue, it's not good at all when you pay a product and suddenly a day it transform into another product, one you dislike intensely. This is what I don't like about this. -Is this bad? Are ads in games bad? Well, like most things in life, I would say it depends on the context, on the implementation. Let's say I can envision some ways where it's acceptable, but it depends on how many, how unobtrusive they are, how well integrated are into the game, and perhaps more important, the price of the game. Obviously they are more admissible in F2P games. So there is a string of conditional ifs attached here. Alas, Blaston is a paid game. -But perhaps the more interesting point is 'how well integrated are'. I don't think anyone would accept Toyota ads in the middle of Skyrim or Coca Cola ads in Dead Cells. Thinking back, this is one of the key reasons ads never have taken root in video games, they are so dominated by fantasy and science fiction, some even are so abstract that they don't have any real world equivalent, that putting ads in them was hard to conceive even for devs that thought it could be a viable revenue stream. And Blaston plays in a some kind of science fiction setting. It isn't a game where the setting matters a lot, to be honest, but seeing insurance ads of the real world in an underground scifi fight-sport club will be somewhat jarring. It isn't going to be 100% jarring as it will be integrated in the existing side banners, but still. So it's pretty bad, Resolution Games has taken an already released, paid, scifi game and is going to put ads on it. They deserve the criticism. -However, the discussion on Internet isn't centered in Resolution Games. It's centered on Facebook, with titles like ' Facebook to put ads on Quest 2'. Example Facebook Will Begin Serving Ads Directly to Oculus Quest Headsets ...except, it's Resolution Games the ones putting ads. Why? Because people love having a 'aha!' moment. Now they can say 'aha! see why they bought Oculus?! They are going to fill the new medium with ads! Typical Facebook!'. -In reality, I think this is part research/live experiment (what ratio of people even sees the ads for more than a second? how many click on it? does VR make them more engaging than in other media?), to see how ads and VR work together, and part because they have an advantage over other traditional game publishers, they have already an entire network of advertisement clients and management marketing tools and all that, so from their point of view, it made sense to make an ad-sdk for the developers who want to use it (and take a cut on it, I guess?), for them it was more about reusing what they had. -But honestly, Facebook has like 2 billion users to which they serve ads already. So no, they didn't buy Oculus to put ads in a few games, that would be like, 0.1% of the ads they already serve. The real reason of 'why they bought Oculus' wasn't to put ads now and try to win some spare money, it was because in 2013-4 there was an unchecked hype about VR and people believed it could be 'the next big thing', the next big platform after smartphones or whatever. It was a hilariously misguided prediction, with Rift ending up selling half a million on the year it was released. Hell, on pc gpu manufacturers stopped including the usb virtuallink for headsets when they also understood it wasn't worth it. And no, I don't think most people will end up with VR headsets even in 15 years, and I have one. So Facebook wasted money, in that regard. -If their big plan was to sell the Quest 2 below cost (people here love to mention how Quest 2 for business is $400 more expensive, as if they really were gonna win $400 on ads per user, loool) undercutting the competition and then win money with ads, FB is dumb. It doesn't matter if you are called Facebook, or FaceNote, or how big you are, the reality is, ads won't work for most games. They didn't work for the last 30 years of gaming, and I don't see that changing with VR. People will reject games with annoying ads on them, and if no one buys the game, no one will see the ad. Only the combination of things (unobtrusive, adequate for the setting, very cheap price) would make them... not good, but acceptable. Viable. I can accept them if someone make a track bases racing game and they are used the same as in real life. But how many games will be like that?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2021 00:01
|
|
