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Palpatine was extremely good at gaslighting people, so he would use that to gain sympathy for exterminating the Jedi, but then as the Empire became stronger, he started appearing as his old self, and that's how it always was. Are you questioning the Emperor? Off to the spice mines with you! I also noticed in the latest episode featured the BB just blasting regs and the conscripts without hesitating. That shows a change in how they were thinking of other clones. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jun 22, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 16:47
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Yeah, Star Wars is an extremely oral culture - stuff passes by word of mouth or hologram, and if there's nobody around who saw something firsthand, it may as well have never happened.
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Jun 21, 2021 16:49
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bunnyofdoom posted:Wasn't that also literally in Revenge of the Sith where we said the Jedi attempt at assassination left him scarred ans deformed? The question in this thread wasn't, "How was he deformed?" It was, "Why did people accept him appearing normal again, when he appeared in public videos deformed?" Moon Slayer posted:It'd be neat if Bad Batch showed the Empire's propaganda machine really starting to spin up. Do you have any idea how many people there are in the Star Wars galaxy? I'm reading the first High Republic book, where they describe a system they go to as having around 40 billion people in it, I think. 40 billion. And that's one system. Even if you're right, and millions of people saw the Jedi, which may or may not be true (there weren't really that many Jedi), that's barely a drop in the bucket compared to the population of the entire Empire. Not to mention, I don't remember anyone saying that the Jedi didn't exist. The closest we get is Han doubting that the Force is as powerful as Obi-Wan says it is. Maybe Han has heard of the Jedi, but heard that they perform parlor tricks. It doesn't mean he believes they communicate with the overriding Force that controls the universe. Which is all he was arguing.
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Jun 21, 2021 16:54
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thrawn527 posted:The question in this thread wasn't, "How was he deformed?" It was, "Why did people accept him appearing normal again, when he appeared in public videos deformed?" He's the Emperor, he has access to the primo quality bacta 
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Jun 21, 2021 16:57
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Obviously he got better, are you going to question the Emperor?
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Jun 21, 2021 17:00
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It doesn't make sense because it requires everyone, literally everyone, to have a goldfish memory. It would be like trying to claim that Obama gave the 2010 State of the Union wearing a rainbow afro wig. This isn't some century ago event that few people actually witnessed. Kids would be saying SCAAAAARRED AND DEFORMED to each other as space memes.
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Jun 21, 2021 17:02
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thrawn527 posted:Not to mention, I don't remember anyone saying that the Jedi didn't exist. The closest we get is Han doubting that the Force is as powerful as Obi-Wan says it is. Maybe Han has heard of the Jedi, but heard that they perform parlor tricks. It doesn't mean he believes they communicate with the overriding Force that controls the universe. Which is all he was arguing.
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Jun 21, 2021 17:05
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Why do you think his first act as Emperor was to found the Emperor Palpatine Surgical Reconstruction Center?
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Jun 21, 2021 17:05
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I preferred the nascent early 80s version of the Emperor that was hands-off and secluded because he was being a wizard hermit studying how to be even more evil, while the Moffs and Powerful Industrial Interests ran the Empire day-to-day.
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Jun 21, 2021 17:08
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Maybe in the Star Wars universe, a horrific injury being covered up by hologram trickery is like us wearing makeup or a toupee/wig.
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Jun 21, 2021 17:10
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Sekhmnet posted:Maybe in the Star Wars universe, a horrific injury being covered up by hologram trickery is like us wearing makeup or a toupee/wig. Oh, this happened in the recent Avengers game, I think. The head of A.I.M. looked fine in hologram, but pretty hosed up in person.
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Jun 21, 2021 17:16
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thrawn527 posted:
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Jun 21, 2021 17:50
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bunnyofdoom posted:There is also Motti at the Death Star conference table who dismisses it, which is wild because he likely was high rank during the clone wars and would have served alongside Jedi He was feeling his oats enough to taunt Darth Vader to his face, so maybe his memory is as bad as his sense of personal safety.
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Jun 21, 2021 17:52
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bunnyofdoom posted:There is also Motti at the Death Star conference table who dismisses it, which is wild because he likely was high rank during the clone wars and would have served alongside Jedi Motti went green to gold
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Jun 21, 2021 18:01
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I don’t get the impression that people by the time of the OT don’t think Jedi existed at all, but rather they were these weird cult of wizards who tried to stage a coup against the government, but don’t worry we got ‘em boys!
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Jun 21, 2021 18:07
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Yeah, everyone knew that the Jedi existed as wierdo knights and generals in the Clone Wars, but that they had magic powers? That's just fairy tails and fake news!
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Jun 21, 2021 18:14
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bunnyofdoom posted:There is also Motti at the Death Star conference table who dismisses it, which is wild because he likely was high rank during the clone wars and would have served alongside Jedi But even he referred to Vader's "sorcerer's ways", implying that he knew Vader could do magic tricks, just that he felt his magic wasn't worth poo poo. Just tricks, not the end all be all power of the universe.
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Jun 21, 2021 18:16
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I dunno, not respecting the Force makes sense for what he experienced. Yeah, the Jedi could do a lot of cool poo poo, but in the end they stepped out of line and a bunch of clones with guns killed them all.
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Jun 21, 2021 18:19
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It could also be that guys like Motti and Han just never encountered a Jedi on their home planet, only heard rumors and whispers. The galaxy is big and there were only like ~10k Jedi, which is nothing on that scale.
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Jun 21, 2021 18:26
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thrawn527 posted:But even he referred to Vader's "sorcerer's ways", implying that he knew Vader could do magic tricks, just that he felt his magic wasn't worth poo poo. Just tricks, not the end all be all power of the universe.
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Jun 21, 2021 18:46
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Cross-Section posted:https://twitter.com/TheAVClub/status/1406899960440770560?s=20 Really enjoyed this interview, I was intrigued by The Acolyte but now I'm actively excited for it.
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Jun 21, 2021 18:52
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Arquinsiel posted:I don't know how familiar you are with Received Pronunciation, but Motti turned the sarcastic tone dial to max there. Yeah, belittling the "sorcerer's ways", but not implying they didn't exist. To me, at least. After Vader was done choking him, Motti didn't freak the gently caress out, like, "What the gently caress was that?! You can do that? How? What is happening here?! Why are you guys not freaking out like I am?!" Which is about how I'd react if someone used magic power to choke me from across the room in the real world. Force powers are known, Motti just doesn't think they matter, at all, compared to things like the Death Star.
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Jun 21, 2021 18:52
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thrawn527 posted:Yeah, belittling the "sorcerer's ways", but not implying they didn't exist. To me, at least. After Vader was done choking him, Motti didn't freak the gently caress out, like, "What the gently caress was that?! You can do that? How? What is happening here?! Why are you guys not freaking out like I am?!" Which is about how I'd react if someone used magic power to choke me from across the room in the real world. Vader has probably been doing that for roughly the past two decades by that point.
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Jun 21, 2021 18:55
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pik_d posted:Vader has probably been doing that for roughly the past two decades by that point. Right. The original point of this conversation was, "People do acknowledge that the Jedi existed, they just don't think too much of them." Vader is an extension of that line of thinking. Han and Motti are the only real skeptics we meet, and neither of them say or hint at believing that the Jedi didn't exist, so I don't know where people get the idea that people in the galaxy believe that. They just don't think much of the Force. They acknowledge that they existed and could/can do tricks, but that's about it.
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Jun 21, 2021 18:58
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I think it is supposed to underscore the extreme rarity of force wielders. Myths and legends, war stories that people assume are huge exaggerations of their abilities, that kind of thing.
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Jun 21, 2021 19:23
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Sekhmnet posted:I think it is supposed to underscore the extreme rarity of force wielders. Myths and legends, war stories that people assume are huge exaggerations of their abilities, that kind of thing. Ya but I think it gets a little underminded by the entire PT- which is ofc one of the big complaints of the PT that it recontextualizes things that were very nice world building lines in some ways that fans view negatively. Everyone being skeptical of Vader and the force makes sense when theres like 1 guy running around doing force poo poo and the only other guy is a hermit on a backwater and he isnt doing super crazy stuff, but then you learn that actually they were in a giant palace next to the senate and led armies in a very visible galaxy wide conflict. I liked the OT idea of some time in the past there was this weird knightly order that ended up being destroyed from within by Vader and the dark side, and we do get something like that that but its like a weird, gigantic bureaucratic knightly order that is actually near the top of the political hierarchy and is very prominent in galactic conflict and politics. I also preferred some other interpreations of the clone wars too, but im at peace with the CW we got because the show is very good and the secondary material has made the clones an interesting story. Jerkface fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 19:31
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Remember that lady who wrote all those books about how noble and honorable the Mandalorians and thus clones were and how the Jedi were actually evil and abusing the clones, but then the Mandalorian arc of Clone Wars came out and showed Mandalore and current Mandalorian society completely differently so she got all mad and stopped writing for Star Wars? Because I like to.
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Jun 21, 2021 20:29
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I always get a laugh out of the Travissty, yes Made all the more hilarious nowadays since her first name is Karen
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Jun 21, 2021 20:31
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Veotax posted:Yeah, everyone knew that the Jedi existed as wierdo knights and generals in the Clone Wars, but that they had magic powers? That's just fairy tails and fake news! "Fake news" is the thing that's most sold me on it being easy to remove the Jedi from public memory. Have you SEEN the kind of double-brained denial of reality poo poo we can achieve in just a few years because it benefits somebody politically? Give Palpatine 20-some years, even stronger control of the media than any force today, and a massive hardon for erasing the Jedi, and it's not hard at all to imagine he's managed a galactic gaslighting to remove what the Jedi can do from most people's minds. Moon Slayer posted:Remember that lady who wrote all those books about how noble and honorable the Mandalorians and thus clones were and how the Jedi were actually evil and abusing the clones, but then the Mandalorian arc of Clone Wars came out and showed Mandalore and current Mandalorian society completely differently so she got all mad and stopped writing for Star Wars? Because I like to. Too bad, I thought she had some interesting ideas about the Mandalorians but she just couldn't play in the toybox without trying to wreck on all the other toys in favor of her Mandos. Hell, pretty sure a lot of the actually good ideas have kind of been blended into the new canon (strong sense of family and such), if she hadn't gone down the rabbit hole of trying to make a race of Mary Sues she'd probably still be beloved rather than mocked. On reflection, having to create in a setting where you respect the work of other creators and can't do your own thing can't be simple, any other Star Wars authors who tried to drag the whole thing into their own little canon while crapping on everybody else? Pretty sure Travis wasn't the only one, but my brain's locking up on other examples.
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Jun 21, 2021 21:43
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The thing with Star Wars and other shared universes is being able to play well with the other kids in the toy box. The inability to do that or figure out ways around each other means the ones who collaborate better will be kept around while the ones who cannot (assuming they both have similar levels of influence) will get excluded.
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Jun 21, 2021 21:48
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MadDogMike posted:any other Star Wars authors who tried to drag the whole thing into their own little canon while crapping on everybody else? bug orgy
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Jun 21, 2021 22:03
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Moon Slayer posted:bug orgy Which, also, because it was written during the Bush Jr. years, had Luke Skywalker literally torturing someone for information, and it was portrayed as a light-side thing to do because that person had information to save lives.....
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Jun 21, 2021 22:06
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bunnyofdoom posted:Which, also, because it was written during the Bush Jr. years, had Luke Skywalker literally torturing someone for information, and it was portrayed as a light-side thing to do because that person had information to save lives..... Didn't Clone Wars do this too?
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Jun 21, 2021 22:35
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Burning_Monk posted:Didn't Clone Wars do this too? A bunch of jedi masters either tried or did brake into cad bane's mind
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Jun 21, 2021 22:40
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I did kinda like the mandos better when they were a mixed-species cult of closely nit adoptees and found family, rather than the aryan nation of mandalore. Im glad Mandalorian is back to foundlings but would still be cool to see some other species among them, fans have done a lot of neat drawings of what other species helmets/armor could look like. As for the jedi thing, i think thats another instance where drawing the war out farther would have helped a lot. If their numbers dwindled over the course of a 10-20 year war instead of 3 then there were 19 more years after that, by the time you get to the OT its very reasonable that they'd be poorly respected or remembered at all. Also some planets/cultures already hated them for being weirdo baby stealers with no respect for native force traditions so toss some negativity in and that helps Burning_Monk posted:Didn't Clone Wars do this too? Anakin did torture people for info but whenever he did they played the imperial march so I think it was meant to show him slipping towards evil
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Jun 21, 2021 22:54
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I mean another reason to disregard the Jedi is that like 99% were taken out instantly by their Clone Troopers turning 6 inches to the left and shooting them in the face. So, like, not a super impressive way to go out. e: And their entire temple got slaughtered pretty easily too. Really poor showing on their part all around. Mulva fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jun 22, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 23:29
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Bismuth posted:Also some planets/cultures already hated them for being weirdo baby stealers with no respect for native force traditions so toss some negativity in and that helps
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Jun 21, 2021 23:33
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bunnyofdoom posted:Which, also, because it was written during the Bush Jr. years, had Luke Skywalker literally torturing someone for information, and it was portrayed as a light-side thing to do because that person had information to save lives..... I mean the Jedi Mind Trick is totally a dark side move. Hell its probably one of, if not the worst thing you can do to a person short of killing them. So a jedi doing some terrible poo poo to people seems pretty on point.
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Jun 22, 2021 01:11
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Yeah, but it only works on people who are "weak minded", so if it affects you it's your own fault really. Shoulda put more points into willpower. Luke's only mistake was changing his mind about the Jedi at the end of the movie.
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Jun 22, 2021 02:18
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Mulva posted:I mean another reason to disregard the Jedi is that like 99% were taken out instantly by their Clone Troopers turning 6 inches to the left and shooting them in the face. So, like, not a super impressive way to go out. I mean after years of fighting with the clones I’m sure most Jedi saw them as their brothers, which is not far fetched, so imagine you’re just walking around town one day and then suddenly your best friend just turns to you with a gun in your face and pulls the trigger. You’re not gonna believe what’s happening and before you realize poo poo got serious you’re shot and dead. It’s just not something the Jedi saw coming and their last thoughts were more than likely, “what did I do to you? I thought we were brothers”. It’s really sad after watching Plo Koon’s episodes in TCW how he cares for his clones so much and then they just shoot him down. I can’t really explain the Temple situation other than maybe it was just thousands of clones against a few hundred Jedi and of those few hundred Jedi maybe a very small fraction were even adults with training suitable to take on a decent number of enemy combatants before being completely overwhelmed whilst the others were younglings. Like a Chinese army rush.
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