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2house2fly posted:tiger confirmed for shambler Tiger is its own mutation of the virus. While viruses can affect multiple species without a difference in structure, their symptoms/severity are pretty different most of the time. For example, the coronavirus family. This has the same outcome on a tiger and a person? Not the alpha variant. Of course, this is only if we assume it is a virus after all... Judakel fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jun 19, 2021 |
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Jun 19, 2021 00:31
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Someone bit a tiger lol.
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Jun 21, 2021 23:01
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Now I'm upset we didn't get a scene with Zeus picking who to bite next. "Eeany, meany, miney, moe..."
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Jun 21, 2021 23:28
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Zack really got me out here wondering if the zombie with a chunk bit out of his dick was an alpha or not.
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Jun 21, 2021 23:39
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ruddiger posted:Zack really got me out here wondering if the zombie with a chunk bit out of his dick was an alpha or not. It was for the opening montage with the strippers eating that John, so probably not.
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Jun 21, 2021 23:41
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Someone bit a tiger lol. 
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Jun 22, 2021 00:24
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Judakel posted:Then don't omit counterpoints. I am not surprised you think it "only benefits me", because I am certain you have no real point to make beyond ad hominems. And yes, we're doing this. Tribe has an anthropological meaning and it isn't my fault that you're too much of a dunce to know that. Now, anthropology certainly has ethical issues to contend with, but one of them is not the fact they use the word "tribe" to describe a certain societal structure. No we really don’t, the term “tribe” is broadly considered both analytically vague and terminologically outdated, in large part because of its colonialist connotations and its use in legal settings to refer to something totally different than the cultural evolution concept. I don’t see anything in the film to indicate the zombies have a social structure that would correspond to a traditional elman service esque tribal concept anyway
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Jun 22, 2021 00:27
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bushisms.txt posted:It was for the opening montage with the strippers eating that John, so probably not. He could’ve been the alpha that turned the dancers! We’ll never know.
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Jun 22, 2021 02:23
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This was a weirdly Bush era film. Which I guess makes sense it's been in development for ages? We gotta invade the desert oh no there's primitive but hardy people here and we think of them as mindless enemies but they have a Culture. That sorta neo colonial fiction setup was all over the Bush years and this seems like a throwback to it, with the additional gimmick that you can't see anything in the film
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Jun 22, 2021 10:06
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Did Trump not assassinate a general in Iran? And the movie employs Sean Spicer while directly referencing Trump.... bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jun 22, 2021 |
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Jun 22, 2021 19:40
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Don’t forget Trump had his own bay of pigs fiasco, those contractors got their poo poo hosed up and it’s all on YouTube.
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Jun 22, 2021 19:54
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You can pick pretty much any 4 years since 1988 and get the same American events: overheated financial market either bubbles or tanks (sometimes both), overseas military "intervention" goes bad to the tune of hundreds of thousands of innocent people dead and billions of dollars wasted to do it, the office of the President delivers almost nothing they promised even if taken on their own merits, the standard of living for the average American continues to decline. Rinse and repeat.
Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jun 22, 2021 |
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Jun 22, 2021 20:05
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It feels weirdly retro since we're all stuck in a time loop.
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Jun 22, 2021 20:19
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Judakel posted:Then don't omit counterpoints. I am not surprised you think it "only benefits me", because I am certain you have no real point to make beyond ad hominems. And yes, we're doing this. Tribe has an anthropological meaning and it isn't my fault that you're too much of a dunce to know that. We’ve all been on the internet long enough to not be fooled by this stuff. You could have spent two seconds on Wikipedia: “The definition [of ‘tribe’] is contested, in part due to ... the problematic application of this concept to extremely diverse human societies. The concept is often contrasted by anthropologists with other social and kinship groups, being hierarchically larger than a lineage or clan.” If you’d like to do armchair anthropology, then the group could probably be more accurately described as a single “clan” of a broader “tribe”, given that they are united as ‘descendants’ of one quasi-supernatural ancestor. But I would be wary of doing this, because you are blithely paving over important distinctions between various societies. Normal ‘kinship’ or ‘blood relations’ or whatever are out the window when the characters do not reproduce sexually (and arguably do not reproduce at all). If this is a “clan”, it’s a clan with only one marriage - ever - and zero children born. What actually connects them is their implementation of, by all appearances, a type of nanotechnology. But you clearly weren’t using “tribal” in the McLuhan sense. So, you are muddying things. Perhaps deliberately, though that doesn’t matter. I am interested in clarity. It beats repeating that your actual point has absolutely nothing to do with the definition of “tribe” at all. Your actual argument is: “Zeus wants to keep offerings coming” and is therefore “interest[ed] in expansion”, and is therefore expansionist, and is therefore a genocidal imperialist and so-on. By staying focussed, we can safely discard your parade of spurious ‘counterpoints’ (“alien nanomachines work differently on tigers! Prove me wrong!”), and examine the core misunderstanding: That’s not what ‘expansionism’ is.
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Jun 23, 2021 03:15
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Watched this last night. Trying to get a grip on it. I mostly really liked it. Initially, it seemed like a reversal of, maybe even an apology for 300. But it's not really that. It's the same exact conflict, just presented with a bit more levelheadedness. The undead of Las Vegas (alphas as Spartan analogues and shamblers as the wimpier Greeks) live in defiance, not just of a powerful empire but of all previously-held laws of nature. They are the future. YET, at the same time, as they toil under a traditional king and queen, make rudimentary tools and ride horses, they resemble the past far more than the encroaching, technologically- and politically-advanced empire does. Because they're starting fresh. It's more Planet of the Apes than Game of Thrones IMO. The undead don't appear to be expansionist, but they do seem to represent fascism as much as the Spartans did. Only here, rather than sexy buff white people, it's nasty walking corpses who do little else but shriek and leak goop outta their faces. Which is, at least, a more accurate depiction of fascists. But the film, as did I as the viewer, still sympathized with them. Meanwhile, the heroes of AotD, the heisters, are a perfect representation of woke capitalism. A diverse group of people living equally stagnant lives who just want to get paid and laid. They try to make their individual identities coexist, self-correcting and attempting to weed out the truly despicable among them, only to realize that their team, a wonderful success from an IDPOL perspective, was just fodder all along. The top-down authoritarian power structure is present in both the undead and the living, it's just obfuscated in the latter and starkly, classically heroic in the former. The king of the dead uses his privilege to fearlessly lead the fight. Hiroyuki Sanada and the generals we see him with, the "kings" of the living, are a bunch of lousy, cowardly maniacal pricks. I don't feel comfortable classifying Snyder as fascist or not fascist. But this movie is definitely a depiction of how Snyder compartmentalizes his fascist inclinations and makes them coexist with genuine concern for the rights of marginalized people. The whole conflict struck me thus: a bold, unabashedly amoral authoritarianism which is equally beautiful and grotesque, long-dead but unkillable; versus this self-destructive, schizoid authoritarianism, that is revolted by itself and has to present a different face to each part of its mechanism in order to survive. Both are doomed. I haven't seen his superman batman movie, or justice league, and I don't think I will, but I'll bet it's got that kinda thing going too.
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Jun 23, 2021 17:51
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Also, did anyone else get BIG Phantom of the Paradise vibes from Zeus's helmet?
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Jun 23, 2021 17:56
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Carly Gay Dead Son posted:Watched this last night. Trying to get a grip on it. I mostly really liked it. Initially, it seemed like a reversal of, maybe even an apology for 300. But it's not really that. It's the same exact conflict, just presented with a bit more levelheadedness. The undead of Las Vegas (alphas as Spartan analogues and shamblers as the wimpier Greeks) live in defiance, not just of a powerful empire but of all previously-held laws of nature. They are the future. YET, at the same time, as they toil under a traditional king and queen, make rudimentary tools and ride horses, they resemble the past far more than the encroaching, technologically- and politically-advanced empire does. Because they're starting fresh. It's more Planet of the Apes than Game of Thrones IMO. The undead don't appear to be expansionist, but they do seem to represent fascism as much as the Spartans did. Only here, rather than sexy buff white people, it's nasty walking corpses who do little else but shriek and leak goop outta their faces. Which is, at least, a more accurate depiction of fascists. But the film, as did I as the viewer, still sympathized with them. This is where it’s important to be careful about what words mean, because in what sense is the Zeus character authoritarian? There don’t appear to be any laws that his people must submit to. How can the characters be fascist without industrial capitalism? Is Zeus anticommunist? What are we even talking about here? It’s like the expansionism thing: there doesn’t appear to be any expansionism because there simply isn’t any. Expansionism almost exclusively refers to state-level policies of territorial expansion - either through direct acquisition of land, or more abstract expansion of influence over other territories. A population increase (of maybe one person per month) is not in any way expansionism. How many people do you think Coyote’s sacrificed there in five years’ time?
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Jun 23, 2021 18:31
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Carly Gay Dead Son posted:Also, did anyone else get BIG Phantom of the Paradise vibes from Zeus's helmet? Yep! No one else did haha. But I’m with ya.
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Jun 23, 2021 18:59
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If you give the zombies someone they don't bother you, that truce is presumably a law which Zeus enforces. What if one zombie decided to attack the humans while that truce was in effect?
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Jun 23, 2021 19:04
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2house2fly posted:If you give the zombies someone they don't bother you, that truce is presumably a law which Zeus enforces. What if one zombie decided to attack the humans while that truce was in effect? All the other zombies would call that zombie a dick, and they wouldn't get to hang out with the cool kids any more.
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Jun 23, 2021 19:05
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My favourite reading of 300 is still that the Spartans- devout warriors and heteronormative martyrs defending their home- represent stereotypical Middle Easterners, while the Persians- diverse, technologically advanced, decadent and queer imperialists- represent Westerners.
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Jun 23, 2021 19:15
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2house2fly posted:If you give the zombies someone they don't bother you, that truce is presumably a law which Zeus enforces. What if one zombie decided to attack the humans while that truce was in effect? That’s not necessary the law of the land tho. The guy in the coyote’s story was taken and returned unscathed without a sacrifice to take his place.
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Jun 23, 2021 19:16
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is where it’s important to be careful about what words mean, because in what sense is the Zeus character authoritarian? There don’t appear to be any laws that his people must submit to. How can the characters be fascist without industrial capitalism? Is Zeus anticommunist? What are we even talking about here? I don't think the Alphas are literally fascist, I meant they represent fascist ideals a lot like the Spartans did in 300. They are the improved form of man sought by fascists, paragons of Western ideals. They live without industrial capitalism, but like fascists, are the product of industrial capitalism. And funnily enough, Zeus is unquestionably an anticommunist. Look at the wealth distribution. There's no shortage of metal wreckage in the ruins of Las Vegas, yet Zeus is the only one who gets a rebar spear and a helmet. That helmet, a form of "healthcare" that every zombie could benefit from, is on the head of one dude only. He's active and brave and honorable but a one percenter through and through.
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Jun 23, 2021 19:27
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2house2fly posted:If you give the zombies someone they don't bother you, that truce is presumably a law which Zeus enforces. What if one zombie decided to attack the humans while that truce was in effect? You can’t ascertain the existence of laws from that at all. Like, if I ask you for five dollars and you give me five dollars, does this mean you were legally obligated to do as I asked? Nah, of course not. Carly Gay Dead Son posted:I don't think the Alphas are literally fascist, I meant they represent fascist ideals a lot like the Spartans did in 300. They are the improved form of man sought by fascists, paragons of Western ideals. They live without industrial capitalism, but like fascists, are the product of industrial capitalism. What? How so? They’re weird-skinned homeless kept in a fuckin’ quarantine zone by Literally Donald Trump.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:What? How so? They’re weird-skinned homeless kept in a fuckin’ quarantine zone by Literally Donald Trump. Well yeah they're literal zombies. Things which should be dead, not being dead. Zeus is an ancient ideal made flesh in modern times. Of course he and his subjects are going to appear grotesque by our standards.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:50
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Ghost Leviathan posted:My favourite reading of 300 is still that the Spartans- devout warriors and heteronormative martyrs defending their home- represent stereotypical Middle Easterners, while the Persians- diverse, technologically advanced, decadent and queer imperialists- represent Westerners. That's the interpretation of Zizek
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Jun 23, 2021 22:47
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Carly Gay Dead Son posted:Well yeah they're literal zombies. Things which should be dead, not being dead. Zeus is an ancient ideal made flesh in modern times. Of course he and his subjects are going to appear grotesque by our standards. So are we talking “ancient ideals”, “western ideals”, or “fascist ideals”? And which ones? You seem to be making the same sort of associative leaps as Judakel, where the character briefly admires a statue of Zeus before occupying the Olympus Casino and is therefore fascist because the Nazis had once appropriated greco-Roman aesthetics.
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Jun 23, 2021 23:28
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Carly Gay Dead Son posted:I mostly really liked it. Initially, it seemed like a reversal of, maybe even an apology for 300. Please watch owls of gahoole
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Jun 24, 2021 00:17
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2house2fly posted:If you give the zombies someone they don't bother you, that truce is presumably a law which Zeus enforces. What if one zombie decided to attack the humans while that truce was in effect? We don't know if this is true. That's just what the coyote does. She probably had poo poo go sideways and found out, cause it's not like they're talking to her.
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Jun 24, 2021 00:19
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bushisms.txt posted:We don't know if this is true. That's just what the coyote does. She probably had poo poo go sideways and found out, cause it's not like they're talking to her. Right; the main reason I like Army Of The Dead is the affinity with Prometheus. The audience is shown this alien culture with very little hand-holding, so it’s a test of your ability to interpret things. It definitely is far more likely that the entire ‘sacrifice’ thing was actually her idea; like a previous expedition went south and she screwed over a compatriot to save herself. That’d be far more likely than a dude somehow coming up to her to explain terms & conditions. And then, how many people has she told about this? Like, how many people know that you can just get full access to the zone in this way? Tanaka’s sent multiple crews in, and he didn’t know. So the already-silly notion that Zeus is actively asking for “offerings” from people outside is totally out the window.
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Jun 24, 2021 03:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:So are we talking “ancient ideals”, “western ideals”, or “fascist ideals”? Like I said, I don't think Zeus is a literal fascist. And yes I'm definitely making associative leaps, but they're leaps within Zack Snyder's body of work. Like if I'd never seen 300, I wouldn't have brought up fascism at all. But, hell, maybe 300 isn't fascist either. The ideals I've been referring to, as embodied by Zeus and the alphas, are the Apollonian, particularly the concept of resistance against death and decay via order, form, and discipline, especially in relation to human characters, who represent a more chaotic, Dionysian force. The mistake I've made is equating Apollonianism with fascism. They're linked, but definitely not the same thing. bushisms.txt posted:Please watch owls of gahoole I never expected anyone to say this to me, but sure, why not!
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Jun 24, 2021 05:52
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Carly Gay Dead Son posted:
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Jun 24, 2021 10:37
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My main takeaway from Owls of Gahoole was how good it looked for when it came out. It still looks great. The flight through the storm in particular pops into my head every now and again.
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Jun 26, 2021 01:03
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Carly Gay Dead Son posted:Like I said, I don't think Zeus is a literal fascist. And yes I'm definitely making associative leaps, but they're leaps within Zack Snyder's body of work. Like if I'd never seen 300, I wouldn't have brought up fascism at all. But, hell, maybe 300 isn't fascist either. I mean, I'd absolutely argue (and have done so repeatedly, in fact) that 300 isn't fascist at all. It's a story from a fascist about fascists, sure, but it isn't an endorsement of either
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Jun 26, 2021 02:35
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McCloud posted:I mean, I'd absolutely argue (and have done so repeatedly, in fact) that 300 isn't fascist at all. It's a story from a fascist about fascists, sure, but it isn't an endorsement of either Even that isn’t exactly right, since the events of the film predate the emergence of fascism by over 2000 years. It’s easy to forget that the battle of Thermopylae predates Christianity. I think it’s more productive to view it as a condensed nightmare version of the entirety of “western civilization”.
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Jun 26, 2021 03:17
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Even that isn’t exactly right, since the events of the film predate the emergence of fascism by over 2000 years. It’s easy to forget that the battle of Thermopylae predates Christianity. I think it’s more productive to view it as a condensed nightmare version of the entirety of “western civilization”. Well sure, but from a meta-perspective it's hard not to draw the obvious parallels between the jingoistic rhetoric, eugenics and idolization of war and sacrifice. A fash by any other name will still goosestep just the same
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Jun 26, 2021 05:16
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300 is more about the howling wounded bloodlust of post 9/11 America Army of the dead also feels like a throwback but to a bit later era of pop culture where the output appeared a bit more ashamed of the former phase. It's not that ashamed though, since we still obviously have to kill the evil savage since he's a threat to the world no matter how noble , we can't coexist with zeus and Co. As compared to stuff like avatar where it's America doing the 9/11 to blue native Americans as part of the collective healing process Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 26, 2021 14:04
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Communist Thoughts posted:
Also avatar is just cinematic manifest destiny. Americans aren't a native species that bin Laden was trying to exploit. Only saying this because it's almost offensive to compare 9/11 and native genocide. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 26, 2021 15:29
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300 is an anxiety dream about the US being on the receiving end of US-style foreign policy. Army kind of has shades of that, where it has Trump's wall being built around an intolerably unAmerican area that is declared foreign soil, but it's all caused by an American soldier whose original mission was to invade Iran. It's like seeing the true face of the American empire sparked a wave of violent riots!
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Jun 26, 2021 16:16
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Fascism is best understood along two dimensions: 1. A strategy by the political right to coopt the mass politics associated with the political left. 2. When an imperial nation, in a state of crisis, turns the methods it uses to subdue colonized peoples on its own population. This actual definition of fascism isn't very well known, partly because it doesn't leave the door open for all kinds of glib literary criticism. It doesn't allow for a failed academic to get an interview with Vice answering questions like "Is Donald Trump fascist? Is Paw Patrol fascist? Is baking bread fascist?" Zeus and his people are a population of natural disaster victims in a death camp. Those aren't the social conditions for fascism. Zeus cannot possibly be a fascist, for the same reasons that Luke Skywalker cannot possibly be a desklamp.
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Jun 26, 2021 16:40
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