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Everyone raves about the consistent ratio between larger and smaller units, but if you ask me, not having a thousand definitions of the same unit is the best part about SI. People who promote things like “metric pounds” and “metric pints” should be guillotined.
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Jun 19, 2021 13:27
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| # ? May 28, 2024 17:43 |
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Platystemon posted:“metric pounds”
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Jun 19, 2021 13:31
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Decimal currency is poo poo if you only divide it once and let inflation make all your currency units worth a tiny fraction of the value they had when you set up the system.
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Jun 19, 2021 13:37
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I now oppose metric currencies.
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Jun 19, 2021 14:21
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imo a fairly good video about the origin of precise measurements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNRnrn5DE58
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Jun 19, 2021 16:32
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What kind of idiot adds thirteen to seventeen and does it digit-by-digit? 
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Jun 19, 2021 16:42
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Platystemon posted:What kind of idiot adds thirteen to seventeen and does it digit-by-digit? tbh i was more weirded out that he carries the one below rather than above
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Jun 19, 2021 16:45
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Platystemon posted:What kind of idiot adds thirteen to seventeen and does it digit-by-digit? People not experienced in maths like anyone that doesn't have much beyond and elementary school education. Carthag Tuek posted:tbh i was more weirded out that he carries the one below rather than above That's definitely wtf
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Jun 19, 2021 21:50
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There's a number of advantages to using base 12, but if you've grown up being taught to just do math in base 10, it's a little extra hassle switching over. And when you mix it with base 20, that's another level of complication and you've added and you have to do a base 240 conversion between the top and bottom of the scale. Personally it also always screws me up that the English call their lowest denomination "pence" as opposed to other currencies that name their denominations by the fraction they are of the main denomination, so my brain always wants to make it into "pents" which would denote some kind of numeric value. And the reason that English currency was screwy in the first place is basically because Charlemagne set forth the ratios. I know modern French as a language has some kind of focus on base 20 and apparently both English and German have a linguistic significance for base 12, so maybe whatever language Charlemagne spoke had both, but really it's because of how numeric base systems didn't actually exist back then before Arabic numerals were introduced, and a lot of the mathematical speedbumps involved in working things out in your head don't really get in the way as much when you're working with words or an abacus. Roman currency before Charlemagne could get pretty screwy about inter-denominational relations too. Platystemon posted:Decimal currency is poo poo if you only divide it once and let inflation make all your currency units worth a tiny fraction of the value they had when you set up the system. At least they're trying to keep numbers low. Every time I see Japanese currency and its totally unreduced numbers with a ludicrous trail of zeroes behind it throws me off. Platystemon posted:What kind of idiot adds thirteen to seventeen and does it digit-by-digit? I know that in the 60s, American schools were doing some kind of screwing around with the way math was taught (which Tom Lehrer lampooned), but I really never got my mind around how. Possibly the Commonwealth screwed around as well. Bonus crayon math
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Jun 19, 2021 21:51
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old danish money had similar ratios: 1 rigsdaler = 6 mark = 96 skilling 1 sletdaler = 4 mark = 64 skilling 1 speciedaler = 84 skilling 1 ort = 24 skilling 1 mark = 16 skilling 1 skilling = 3 hvid = 12 penning all nice numbers with lots of divisors btw dollar comes from thaler same as daler
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Jun 19, 2021 22:02
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SlothfulCobra posted:At least they're trying to keep numbers low. Every time I see Japanese currency and its totally unreduced numbers with a ludicrous trail of zeroes behind it throws me off. I know a number of non-Zimbabwean currencies also regularly get up into weirdly high values due to things like inflation and such, but it's only weird when you see it the first time. The conversion rate to yen to dollars is (roughly) 100Y to $1 so it's not too wild when you just have to knock two zeroes off of a number in yen. Yen used to have subunits akin to US currency, but they were phased out in the 50s as inflation basically made them useless and the currency pegging, 360Y to $1 as part of Bretton Woods, probably didn't help matters
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Jun 19, 2021 23:13
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Platystemon posted:Everyone raves about the consistent ratio between larger and smaller units, but if you ask me, not having a thousand definitions of the same unit is the best part about SI. What really bugs me is that a US cup is 236.6ml, unless it's a "legal cup" used for nutrition labeling, then it's 240ml. And depending on where in the world you are, a cup can instead be any amount between 200 and 250ml
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Jun 19, 2021 23:28
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SlothfulCobra posted:I know that in the 60s, American schools were doing some kind of screwing around with the way math was taught (which Tom Lehrer lampooned), but I really never got my mind around how. Possibly the Commonwealth screwed around as well. I remember the first time I heard the New Math song, I thought it was a hilarious song about some insane new way of overcomplicating basic artihmetic. Then I saw a video which included a demonstration of the method in the song and I realised that it's actually a hilarious song about old people who apparently can't understand the sane way of doing arithmetic. Here's how the first "new math" operation in the song works: pre:3 4 2 - 1 7 3 Now that's really four tens, so you make it three tens, [score a line through the 4 and write 3] regroup, and you change a ten to ten ones and you add 'em to the two and get 12 [take the 1 you've subtracted from the tens column, add 10 to the units column] And you take away 3 and that's 9, is that clear? pre:3 ³
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Jun 19, 2021 23:42
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yeah its just another wording of the same thing
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Jun 20, 2021 00:00
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Yeah, it makes me wonder how math was taught before the new math, because most of that follows what I know about the modern procedure. I also know that there were things that they were trying add to the curriculum that definitely did not stick like set theory. It'd be really weird if they were trying to teach kids alternate bases that early.
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Jun 20, 2021 00:53
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SlothfulCobra posted:Yeah, it makes me wonder how math was taught before the new math, because most of that follows what I know about the modern procedure. I also know that there were things that they were trying add to the curriculum that definitely did not stick like set theory. It'd be really weird if they were trying to teach kids alternate bases that early. As far as I can tell the old method was completely based around rote learning tricks with zero focus on understanding why a certain trick works. Maybe even rote learning a 'substraction table' akin to multiplication tables.
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Jun 20, 2021 07:36
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Carbon dioxide posted:As far as I can tell the old method was completely based around rote learning tricks with zero focus on understanding why a certain trick works. Maybe even rote learning a 'substraction table' akin to multiplication tables. Though I did call it insane, I *think* in truth it was not actually too different from the new math method, just kind of reversed. “3 from 2 is 9, carry the one” is really just “if you’d go below zero in this operation, continue from 9, carry a 1 to the next column”, and then from the song’s preamble it sounds like you either added that one to the second number or subtracted it from the first number, then repeat. That’s actually pretty analogous to how you do addition. Adding 3 to 9? Well, you go above 9, so you continue from 0, and carry a 1 to the next column. The only real difference as far as I can see is that in the “new” way, you carry down with subtraction first, which makes it clear why you’re starting over from 9 and why you’re carrying a 1. But once you understand how subtraction works, both methods are essentially identical, especially if you’re doing any part of it in your head.
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Jun 20, 2021 12:51
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The whole common core hysteria is just repackaged new math hysteria. Like, literally, there was a scene in the Incredibles sequel where Bob Parr is struggling with Dash's new math-inspired math homework (and all the chuds were like "lol, common core".
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Jun 20, 2021 15:55
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My grandfather was a high school dropout. Became a bookie and could do percentages in his head like nothing. He used tricks like ‘evening out’ the numbers to make it easier then ‘cleaning it up.’ But he did it in his head in like 5 seconds. He could never write it out.
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Jun 20, 2021 16:08
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SlothfulCobra posted:I know modern French as a language has some kind of focus on base 20 and apparently both English and German have a linguistic significance for base 12, so maybe whatever language Charlemagne spoke had both, but really it's because of how numeric base systems didn't actually exist back then before Arabic numerals were introduced, and a lot of the mathematical speedbumps involved in working things out in your head don't really get in the way as much when you're working with words or an abacus. I heard (so I'm not certain if this is true) that the base-20 or even a base-6 system is a carry-over of Celtic numbers systems (people who speak or understand a modern Celtic language will probably be able to confirm or refute this), but I should add that even in French, it isn't universal. While in metropolitan French, 60 is soixante-dix ("60+10") 80 is indeed quatre-vingt ("4x20") and 90 is quatre-vingt-dix ("4x20+10") in Belgian and Swiss French we say 'septante' for 70 and nonnante for '90', and Swiss French even has 'octante' for 80. As a kind of cute piece of trivia: French spoken in the DR Congo also follows the Belgian system of counting, not the metropolitan French one, which is one of the markers a French-speaking African can tell their interlucutor is Congolese and not, say, Senegalese, Malinois or Ivorian. Also, unique words for numbers like 11, 12 or 13 and so on that don't neatly follow a system as in, say, 23, 44 or 61 don't necessarily mean that the ancestor language had base-N as a counting system, it's just that numbers like 11-16 were much more likely to be used more frequently and thus grow into their own words, e.g. Latin clearly had a base-5 counting system but its word for 11 was structurally still a lot different from its word for, say, 41 or 71.
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Jun 20, 2021 23:29
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I'd have thought a Malinois would likely speak Belgian french, if any.
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Jun 20, 2021 23:57
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Flipperwaldt posted:I'd have thought a Malinois would likely speak Belgian french, if any. As far as I'm aware, Wallonian French isn't very radically different from France French, and definitely not to the extant of say, Flemish and Dutch.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:08
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twoday posted:As far as I'm aware, Wallonian French isn't very radically different from France French, and definitely not to the extant of say, Flemish and Dutch.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:20
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Belgium delenda est  
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Jun 21, 2021 03:26
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No need to partition what never really was. Wallonia was always French, Flanders was always Dutch.
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Jun 21, 2021 04:57
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Pope Hilarius II posted:I heard (so I'm not certain if this is true) that the base-20 or even a base-6 system is a carry-over of Celtic numbers systems (people who speak or understand a modern Celtic language will probably be able to confirm or refute this), but I should add that even in French, it isn't universal. While in metropolitan French, 60 is soixante-dix ("60+10") 80 is indeed quatre-vingt ("4x20") and 90 is quatre-vingt-dix ("4x20+10") in Belgian and Swiss French we say 'septante' for 70 and nonnante for '90', and Swiss French even has 'octante' for 80. Minor caveat, Swiss French uses 'huitante'. I've never heard octante, and neither has my wife who grew up in Suisse Romande. And this topic has come up occasionally in conversation and no one has ever heard anyone besides maybe a first year transfer student use "octante" because they read something online that told them people said that in Switzerland. I wonder what Luxembourg-French uses. Probably a mixture of Belgian (70 / 4x20 / 90) and French (60+10 / 4x20 / 4x20+10) numbers. E: Also what's going to get more fun is that Suisse Romande is planning to "rectify" French spelling, so suddenly just like there's English (UK) and English (US), there's going to be French (Fr) and French (CH) soon: https://www.letemps.ch/opinions/ok-nenufar-exemple-ca-secrit-ee-es-ees-er-ez-ai Saladman fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 11:08
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Does Quebecois French follow metropolitan French for numbers?
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Jun 21, 2021 11:57
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twoday posted:As far as I'm aware, Wallonian French isn't very radically different from France French, and definitely not to the extant of say, Flemish and Dutch.
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Jun 21, 2021 12:14
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Ibblebibble posted:Does Quebecois French follow metropolitan French for numbers? I think everywhere outside of Europe they use the metropolitan French numbers.
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Jun 21, 2021 12:36
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Flipperwaldt posted:Not radically, no. What is different, is how a Malinois (both person or dog of that breed) originates from Malines (Mechelen), Flanders, whereas an inhabitant from Mali would be called a Malien in French or Malian in English. I just thought that was a funny minor mistake he made. Dogs can’t speak French
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Jun 21, 2021 15:52
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Ibblebibble posted:Does Quebecois French follow metropolitan French for numbers? We do metropolitan french numbers yes. Most Quebecois immigration from France in the colonial era came from Normandy so there's weird language stuff sometimes but not for numbers.
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Jun 21, 2021 17:13
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Dogs can’t speak French Untrue, one of the dogs we board regularly at work has a haitian owner and he is a delight. Both for coming from an actually skilled and discerning owner and for being basically the only person I get to speak my mother tongue too these days.
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Jun 21, 2021 19:46
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https://twitter.com/baseballot/status/1406974971835002887
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Jun 22, 2021 16:30
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Flipperwaldt posted:Not radically, no. What is different, is how a Malinois (both person or dog of that breed) originates from Malines (Mechelen), Flanders, whereas an inhabitant from Mali would be called a Malien in French or Malian in English. I just thought that was a funny minor mistake he made. Thank you. I was honestly confused there because I know 'Malinois' only as the French demonym for someone from Mechelen, lol. I wasn't thinking of the actual country of Mali at all. FreudianSlippers posted:Belgium delenda est 1. It should be 'Belgica delenda est' or 'Belgium delendum est'. 2. Why have a Scheldt Republic that doesn't even include Zealandic Flanders? Also nice how the putative Duchy of the Ardennes doesn't even include all of the Ardennes but somehow does wind up with all the ugliest dialects of Flanders. Win some, lose some I guess. 3. This is less likely to happen than Austria joining Germany, Catalonia gaining independence and Romania reunifying with Moldova, you know that, right? 4. A situation where the Talleyrand Plan is the least bonkers way to split Belgium is a pretty scathing indictment of the quality of the other plans.
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Jun 22, 2021 17:45
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Quote from country about to be partitionedPope Hilarius II posted:Thank you. I was honestly confused there because I know 'Malinois' only as the French demonym for someone from Mechelen, lol. I wasn't thinking of the actual country of Mali at all.
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Jun 22, 2021 17:50
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FreudianSlippers posted:Belgium delenda est Any plan that doesn't destroy the Netherlands as well is a waste of time, quite frankly.
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Jun 22, 2021 18:14
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steinrokkan posted:Any plan that doesn't destroy the Netherlands as well is a waste of time, quite frankly. steinrokkan posted:Any plan that doesn't destroy the Netherlands as well is a waste of time, quite frankly. Could I interest you in a pamphlet on climate change?
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Jun 22, 2021 18:30
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Getting into Crypto Currency and motor sports to hasten the destruction of the Netherlands.
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Jun 22, 2021 18:32
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As the sea level rises, Netherlands would build higher and higher dams, until it becomes completely submerged underwater in a giant bubble.
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Jun 22, 2021 18:49
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gently caress off Batman posted:As the sea level rises, Netherlands would build higher and higher dams, until it becomes completely submerged underwater in a giant bubble. far future where the dutch have evolved into a sort of amphibious wasp-like creature who chew up cellulose and spit it out to add more and more layers to their paper wasp-style inscrutable and inhuman national nest
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Jun 22, 2021 19:09
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