[Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

Top City Homo: Oct 15, 2014; Ramrod XTreme

Hot Karl Marx posted:

So are tankies now just anyone left of liberals?

liberals are anti human white supremacist settler colonialists on a phenomenological level

they think that the rest of the world are primitives to be colonized by their delusions

# ? Jun 22, 2021 16:20

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# ? May 30, 2024 11:32

Top City Homo: Oct 15, 2014; Ramrod XTreme

Atrocious Joe posted:

https://twitter.com/StollmeyerEU/status/1407037403181862913?s=20

guidofication intensifies

# ? Jun 22, 2021 17:01

Zmej: Nov 6, 2005

crepeface posted:

thanks for this, finally got around to listening to all 3hrs of RWN 149. just lmao at the thought of holding carl zha to a single hour. he sounds pretty pessimistic about full uyghur integration, seems like the two school systems with separate languages really hosed with uyghur's upward mobility when china's market opened up.

I will say that these podcasts are now over 2 years old now, and in the beginning the integration attempts were a mess, especially the economic programs which contributed a lot to the tensions.

last month they did an "update" which describes daily life and Timppa has close friends in XUAR. from other things I've been reading/listening to, economical & education integration plans are way better now or succeeded. things like improving housing have really taken off since 2018. Timppa has a perspective I haven't heard before, which he describes the "softer" attempts to solve the extremist attacks failed and sympathizes (idk if this is the right word) more with these harsher programs like the involuntary re-education centers but it is really unfortunate when someone who may have done something really benign (iirc an example is going to the wrong website or saying something a little too spicy) but has no intentions to commit a terrorist attack gets swept up. Timppa describes the very real fear his friends and citizens had after all these attacks and how much things have improved since they introduced these programs and security. like over 200 people died over several years (including more secular Uyghurs) and now things are way safer. I'm trying to walk a fine line and explain a perspective that gets left out in all this arguing about Uyghurs

Silk and Steel Podcast EP123-Xinjiang with Timppa

Zmej has issued a correction as of 17:14 on Jun 22, 2021

# ? Jun 22, 2021 17:09

Top City Homo: Oct 15, 2014; Ramrod XTreme

Zmej posted:

I went down the boat-hole last week and learned about how Reagan cut shipyard subsidies which destroyed like 40% of the work force (which has huge knock-on effects destroying other jobs down the line) and shrank our production ability of course too lol

thank you president reagan!

# ? Jun 22, 2021 17:20

paul_soccer12: Jan 5, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

It really seemed like Trump being president turned democracy now into the embarrassing propaganda outlet it is today

# ? Jun 22, 2021 17:22

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

paul_soccer12 posted:

It really seemed like Trump being president turned democracy now into the embarrassing propaganda outlet it is today

given i dont know much about democracy now but the name alone pretty much screams state dept propaganda to me

much like how our govt uses the words democracy and freedom to bludgeon the middle east with bombs and destabilizing others the we dont like

Agrajag has issued a correction as of 17:40 on Jun 22, 2021

# ? Jun 22, 2021 17:33

Not So Fast: Dec 27, 2007

Agrajag posted:

given i dont know much about democracy now but the name alone pretty much screams state dept propaganda to me

much like how our govt uses the words democracy and freedom to bludgeon the middle east with bombs and destabilizing others the we dont like

It used to be really good back in the 2000s when it was one of the only center-left anti-war outlets out there

Nowadays there's a bunch more competition and it does feel like the conversation on the left has shifted, while the channel itself hasn't and it has picked up a habit of toeing the line on certain topics like China or Syria.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:01

paul_soccer12: Jan 5, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

mate has been an honest critic of DN since he left for greener pastures. some of his threads about it

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1363913979597361154
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1154791948764504065?lang=en

# ? Jun 22, 2021 19:19

Top City Homo: Oct 15, 2014; Ramrod XTreme

Some Guy TT posted:

visualizing innocent ughyurs strapped to the clockwork orange chair labeled the genocide chair and being forced to watch japanese porn while sicko xi has his hands on the window going yes...ha ha ha...yes!

famous american porn stars who arent actually dead watch from heaven with tears in their eyes

# ? Jun 22, 2021 19:27

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 29 days!)

paul_soccer12 posted:

mate has been an honest critic of DN since he left for greener pastures. some of his threads about it

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1363913979597361154
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1154791948764504065?lang=en

I think part of this is how aging leftists can get desperate for validation, and just want to be respected by their richer and more successful liberal peers.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 19:51

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

https://twitter.com/WEIWEIDAI4/status/1405691540089888770
can this be real?

# ? Jun 22, 2021 20:01

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

genericnick posted:

https://twitter.com/WEIWEIDAI4/status/1405691540089888770
can this be real?

you gotta be a real rear end in a top hat to want to fight a panda lol

# ? Jun 22, 2021 21:10

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Agrajag posted:

you gotta be a real rear end in a top hat to want to fight a panda lol

hes not even fighting it. the panda is just sitting there

# ? Jun 22, 2021 21:14

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Agrajag posted:

you gotta be a real rear end in a top hat to want to fight a panda lol

Well it is Roosevelt.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 21:23

paul_soccer12: Jan 5, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

they should aspire to be like roosevelt's son

# ? Jun 22, 2021 21:44

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

paul_soccer12 posted:

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1154791948764504065?lang=en

lmfao 'a postion to change Illinois votes'

Clinton won by almost 17 points.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 21:51

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

been seeing excerpts from this book How China Escaped Shock Therapy (https://www.amazon.com/Escaped-Ther...24399735&sr=8-1) and i really wanna read it now

quote:

After an overwhelming success in inducing output growth in agriculture, the Rural Development Group was looking into new pressing issues in reform in 1984. One of them was price reform. Song Guoqing, a peasant�s son, was a brigade leader before entering Peking University as a student in geometry, and he had combined his mathematical skills with his interest in political economy to study modern microeconomics. Song had recently joined the group, and he suggested an experiment to test the effects of two kinds of price reforms (Luo, 2017). At the time, Du Runsheng had been promoted to be the head of the Rural Development Research Center under the State Council. He supported the idea and contacted Gao Yang, an economist and revolutionary veteran who was at the time party secretary of Hebei Province (ibid.; Chen, 2013, 311; Editorial Board of Who�s Who in China, 1989a). Gao agreed to provide the young researchers with whatever they needed to carry out the experiment (Luo, 2017).

The experiment was designed to apply a more cautious price reform policy to one county and a more radical one to another. Song�s logic was based on the observation that the state-quota price for grain was lower than the market price. Song argued that, from the peasant�s perspective, delivering the quota to the state at the lower planned price amounted to paying a tax. Reminiscent of a similar proposal of the 1960s and Sun Yefang�s ideas (see Chapters 4 and 5), Song suggested that instead of delivering the quota, the peasants could pay a monetary tax that equaled the revenue loss they would otherwise face from selling their quota at a lower price. The state could then use the tax revenue to buy grain in the market. This policy was tested in Gaocheng county, which was at the time under the leadership of Gao Xiaomeng. The more radical policy was implemented in Ningjin county under the oversight of Luo Xiaopeng.

Luo explained in our interview that, in addition to the first policy, inputs� most importantly, chemical fertilizers and diesel�were also no longer allocated at state-set prices but had to be acquired by the peasants from the market. With the support of what Luo, looking back, described as unusually capable leadership, they issued a new local currency to avoid any cross-regional income effects and drew up budgets for all involved parties. Both experiments failed because of the success of the household responsibility system and the adjustment in grain procurement prices in raising agricultural output.

In his memoir, Zhao Ziyang noted on the unanticipated expansion of agricultural:

The rural energy that was unleashed in those years was magical, beyond what anyone could have imagined. A problem thought to be unsolvable had worked itself out in just a few years� time. The food situation that was once so grave had turned into a situation where, by 1984, farmers actually had more grain than they could sell. The state grain storehouses were stacked full from the annual procurement program. (2009, 97�98)

The supply of grain had increased by 1984 to an extent that, for the first time, the planned price and the above-quota state procurement price were higher than the market price (Luo, 2017, 2008). Hence, selling the quota at the planned price was no longer a tax but a subsidy for the peasants, and selling the surplus above the quota to the state protected the peasants from bearing the whole burden of the falling market prices. This revealed a basic difference between Song�s taxation scheme based on microeconomic reasoning and the state procurement of grain.

The underlying Guanzian logic of the multi-tiered price system became apparent at this moment of great success of the new household responsibility system. The multi-tiered pricing initially had the effect of encouraging the peasants, who now harvested the fruits of their labor for their individual benefit, to produce more. But as the grain supply boomed and incurred a rapid fall in prices, the state procurement component of the household responsibility system protected the peasants from the consequences of violent price fluctuations. A direct tax is static. It would have been based on calculating the monetary cost of delivering a quote to the state at a price lower than the market price for some given price differential and quota. But as the grain output changed rapidly, so did the market price for crops. The household responsibility system adjusts automatically to price fluctuations. When the market price is high, the cost of having to deliver part of the harvest at a lower state-set price is high. But, thanks to the same high market prices, revenues for farmers are also high, and hence the harm from having to deliver part of the harvest at the lower state price is not too severe. When the market price is below the state-set price in times of bumper harvests, the state procurement quota changes from incurring a cost for the farmers to securing them against market price fluctuations. It turns out the state procurement under the household responsibility system dampened price fluctuations�just as the practice of the Ever Normal Granaries had done for centuries.

This price-stabilization effect of the responsibility system was not by accident, but by design. In our interview, Luo Xiaopeng stressed that Wan Li, who is generally recognized as the pioneer of agricultural reform, was keenly aware of this stabilizing function of the household responsibility system and multi-tiered pricing. When some members of the Rural Development Group had previously suggested a similar experiment to him, Wan had vigorously opposed the idea of replacing the state�s participation in the grain market with taxes. In 1984, he again lobbied for maintaining the state grain procurement, despite the favorable conditions for abolishing it (Luo, 2017).

From the failed experiment, those within the Rural Development Group who might have believed in a quick and radical price reform had learned their lesson. Even when the situation appeared favorable, as it did in light of the output explosion in agriculture, a cautious approach was superior to the risk of a policy-induced shock liberalization. Furthermore, the failed experiment had demonstrated to the Rural Development Group the important function of state procurement not only in generating fiscal income and circulating commodities across regions, but also in stabilizing prices and thereby protecting both consumers and producers from violent cycles. The experiment had shown that, in contrast to the neoclassical interpretation, the dual-track price system was not simply a high tax on an initial amount of output, but a regulated agricultural production through state participation in the market.

the scars from the GLF and GPCR really instilled a sense of caution in chinese policy people and carefully experimenting and testing stuff on local scales before implementing them on a larger one across the country. how china got from where it was to where it is now seems to be: by thinking about things very carefully and state planning.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 23:13

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Rutibex posted:

hes not even fighting it. the panda is just sitting there

it's so loving funny, just a dude trying to menace a confused and famously docile and unthreatening animal.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 23:24

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

pandas suck, there I said it

# ? Jun 22, 2021 23:54

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

hurrr I�ve evolved to eat the most nutrient poor grass on the planet, please save me from my own deserved extinction for being a genetic dead end

# ? Jun 22, 2021 23:55

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 29 days!)

AND WHAT THE gently caress EVER HAPPENED TO COFFEE FLAVORED COFFEE!?

# ? Jun 23, 2021 00:41

Flunky: Jan 2, 2014

they should have done Giant Salamander Diplomacy instead of sending out their volcel bear

# ? Jun 23, 2021 00:44

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Flunky posted:

they should have done Giant Salamander Diplomacy instead of sending out their volcel bear

lmao starting a petition.org to make pandas the official mascot of volcels

# ? Jun 23, 2021 01:31

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

Raskolnikov38 posted:

pandas suck, there I said it

ill fight you

theyre dumb but ill still fight you

# ? Jun 23, 2021 01:54

Southpaugh: May 26, 2007; Smokey Bacon

Flunky posted:

they should have done Giant Salamander Diplomacy instead of sending out their volcel bear

Volcel Bear was my other potential username

# ? Jun 23, 2021 02:23

Deified Data: Nov 3, 2015; Fun Shoe

https://twitter.com/IranIntl_En/status/1407380570485805058?s=19

# ? Jun 23, 2021 02:29

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

Deified Data posted:

https://twitter.com/IranIntl_En/status/1407380570485805058?s=19

wait arent houthis the excuse we are using to genocide the yemeni's by using the kingdom as a proxy

# ? Jun 23, 2021 03:33

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

Zmej posted:

I will say that these podcasts are now over 2 years old now, and in the beginning the integration attempts were a mess, especially the economic programs which contributed a lot to the tensions.

last month they did an "update" which describes daily life and Timppa has close friends in XUAR. from other things I've been reading/listening to, economical & education integration plans are way better now or succeeded. things like improving housing have really taken off since 2018. Timppa has a perspective I haven't heard before, which he describes the "softer" attempts to solve the extremist attacks failed and sympathizes (idk if this is the right word) more with these harsher programs like the involuntary re-education centers but it is really unfortunate when someone who may have done something really benign (iirc an example is going to the wrong website or saying something a little too spicy) but has no intentions to commit a terrorist attack gets swept up. Timppa describes the very real fear his friends and citizens had after all these attacks and how much things have improved since they introduced these programs and security. like over 200 people died over several years (including more secular Uyghurs) and now things are way safer. I'm trying to walk a fine line and explain a perspective that gets left out in all this arguing about Uyghurs

Silk and Steel Podcast EP123-Xinjiang with Timppa

thanks for the heads up. i'm ~halfway through RWN 160 with the russian guy who took a tourist trip through the region and from that one (~2.5 years ago), things were a bit oppressive and annoying. good to hear things seems to have gotten better.

# ? Jun 23, 2021 09:15

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

mila kunis posted:

been seeing excerpts from this book How China Escaped Shock Therapy (https://www.amazon.com/Escaped-Ther...24399735&sr=8-1) and i really wanna read it now

quote:
From the failed experiment, those within the Rural Development Group who might have believed in a quick and radical price reform had learned their lesson. Even when the situation appeared favorable, as it did in light of the output explosion in agriculture, a cautious approach was superior to the risk of a policy-induced shock liberalization. Furthermore, the failed experiment had demonstrated to the Rural Development Group the important function of state procurement not only in generating fiscal income and circulating commodities across regions, but also in stabilizing prices and thereby protecting both consumers and producers from violent cycles. The experiment had shown that, in contrast to the neoclassical interpretation, the dual-track price system was not simply a high tax on an initial amount of output, but a regulated agricultural production through state participation in the market.

the scars from the GLF and GPCR really instilled a sense of caution in chinese policy people and carefully experimenting and testing stuff on local scales before implementing them on a larger one across the country. how china got from where it was to where it is now seems to be: by thinking about things very carefully and state planning.

it's so loving amazing to see experiments with actual controls and to have negative results actually USED instead of going full steam ahead with a lovely idea. obviously, it's usually done in the west as a some kind of bullsit "due dilligence" cover so they can go ahead and privatise something for kickbacks or give their friends some lucrative contracts but i've seen it in scientific papers in peer reviewed journals way more than you'd think because they're chasing that grant money.

fyi.... that (and most other books) are extremely easy to find on libgen

# ? Jun 23, 2021 09:39

Not So Fast: Dec 27, 2007

Deified Data posted:

https://twitter.com/IranIntl_En/status/1407380570485805058?s=19

The irony of doing this just as Apple Daily gets shut down in Hong Kong is amazing. Great job.

# ? Jun 23, 2021 11:14

Mirello: Jan 29, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/22/technology/xinjiang-uyghurs-china-propaganda.html

Here we go again. All of these people are lying, there's no real anger at the american government pushing lies, it's all propaganda. I mean the subtext of the article is so amazing. "they're lying, but we're telling the truth" "The uyghers are doing the govt's bidding as propoganda. However, when we quote and interview mike Pompeo we are just nuetrally seeking knowledge" Makes me loving sick. The only actual ugyher interviewed in the article is presented as some harmless granny, so I looked her up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebiya_Kadeer

Lol, married to a radio free asia guy, used to be a millionaire, has travelled the world formenting anger at china. Head of the east turkestan independence congress. It's truely amazing that none of that is in the story. Just like that woman who testified about the babies being pushed out of the incubators in kuwait. Man this poo poo makes me angry. The nyt really is the #1 propaganda spreader in the world.

# ? Jun 23, 2021 12:16

Zedhe Khoja: Nov 10, 2017; sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna

hidden gem is the number of kids listed. how do you run a corrupt business and run a government in exile on behalf of America with that many kids?

# ? Jun 23, 2021 12:22

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Sinophobia starter pack:

1. *insert loaded question about China bad*, trust me I'm really just a neutral concerned truth seeker on good faith, but we should really nuke them
2. I hate the CCP, not the Chinese people, I'm not racist but look at all the scum DNA in their blood so we should also really nuke them

# ? Jun 23, 2021 12:34

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 29 days!)

Agrajag posted:

wait arent houthis the excuse we are using to genocide the yemeni's by using the kingdom as a proxy

The US is taking down the media sites of every "Axis of Resistance" member in the Arab world and Iran because we think that's going to be leverage against Iran to accept our demands in the new nuclear talks.

# ? Jun 23, 2021 13:59

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

iran should make a nuke, that would be good leverage

# ? Jun 23, 2021 14:06

Joyboy: Mar 18, 2021; I'm sure everyone feels the same.

Stringent posted:

chomsky also has a long and disgusting history of genocide denial and the china defenders in this thread (and presumably CSPAM but I don't go there) closely follow that playbook. raise doubts about impartiality, distort statements and motives, outright lie if necessary - but only about your targets (the vague specter of "neoliberalism" or "imperialism" - they're interchangeable depending on what crowd you find yourself in). never apply the same scrutiny to statements of the perpetrators of genocide and above all never engage with the evidence on its own merits. (particularly appalling in the case of bellingcat whose evidence is always, by definition, readily available to anyone with an internet connection and can be verified more or less trivially.) you must always attack the source by any means necessary, even - perhaps especially - if that means fundamentally undermining trust in us NGOs and media institutions.

the fact that this strategy is exactly the same as that used by domestic right-wing extremists and foreign authoritarians does not seem to occur to these people, nor does it appear to bother them that when open, transparent sources are all discredited they must rely on increasingly fringe sources like grayzone, globalresearch, or just straight up sputnik. presumably they believe that they hold a monopoly on truth and therefore do not need to subject themselves to information hygiene practices like questioning assumptions and critically assessing evidence without regard to source (this is also what the right-wingers believe but that does not occur to them either)

its hosed up that you would compare chomsky to people who read the instructions on a republican ad-lib wrong :/

# ? Jun 23, 2021 14:31

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Stringent posted:

above all never engage with the evidence on its own merits. (particularly appalling in the case of bellingcat whose evidence is always, by definition, readily available to anyone with an internet connection and can be verified more or less trivially.)

lmao learn to read

# ? Jun 23, 2021 14:44

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Rutibex posted:

iran should make a nuke, that would be good leverage

Kim: Exactly

# ? Jun 23, 2021 16:01

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

https://twitter.com/PeterZeihan/status/1406995616324935683

# ? Jun 23, 2021 19:39

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 30, 2024 11:32

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

genericnick posted:

https://twitter.com/PeterZeihan/status/1406995616324935683

In the next great war all of these will be made into sherman neckties

# ? Jun 23, 2021 19:40

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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