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That cliffhanger tho, dang
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Jun 23, 2021 09:26
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After seeing some more of Lady Loki/Sylvie I've started to suspect that she's not a Loki variant . It could be she's a sister to Loki in another timeline, and she's called a variant because she's not supposed to exist in the main timeline.
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Jun 23, 2021 10:05
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Kal-L posted:After seeing some more of Lady Loki/Sylvie I've started to suspect that she's not a Loki variant . She literally says "Good. 'Cause that's not who I am anymore. I'm Sylvie now." in response to Loki not wanting to call her Loki. Same entity, different upbringings, names and gender expressions.
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Jun 23, 2021 10:31
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Kal-L posted:After seeing some more of Lady Loki/Sylvie I've started to suspect that she's not a Loki variant . Except that the TVA is still very much a thing. So any variations along the lines of Loki had a sister, Loki was raised by frost giants or Loki was born a girl means Loki gets pruned because variant time-lines seem to "redline" within 3-5 minutes or so. So timelines of "Loki was born/raised differently/etc." get erased before the Loki in question could grow up.
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Jun 23, 2021 11:00
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I do not trust Disney enough to believe that Sylvie is just straight up trans woman Loki, it would be really cool and positive and as such it'll never happen
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Jun 23, 2021 11:00
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I..... have some issues with this latest episode, despite thinking the last two were perfect. First and foremost, no Mobius. And here I thought I'd get a solid 6 episodes of Owen Wilson. Secondly, I find it weird as hell that Loki's sincerely talking to his variant about love. I guess the only person he'd ever be willing to truly open up to is... himself? Thirdly, how is Loki able to hold up an entire building and throw it backwards... but keeping himself inside a train and protecting a piece of machinery is just... ah whatever explain it as "he's really full" I guess. Fourthly, when the announcements said the ship was launching in five minutes, there was absolutely zero way that they could have boarded it or changed its fate, so the ensuing chaotic scene, as fun as it was to watch, was a bit hollow to me. Maybe if they said "launching in one hour" and it was closer than a mile away, there'd have been a little more tension there. I did love how the planet maw opening just silenced the entire city, though. Fifthly... the length of opening for a time door being "just enough for Sylvie to exit a room and forget the door is still there but not enough for anyone to chase Loki through it" is one of those small minutiae that will forever bother me in media. And finally... I was kinda hoping this series would be a little more... I dunno... episodic(?) in story structure. We've only got 6 episodes and already we have a full episode that's purely "side track" with a cliffhanger ending. Can we not just keep a primary storyline running here? I'm willing to take the L on this opinion because I've planted myself in a pretty staunch position of how I like plot progression in my entertainment. Learning 2 things about Loki and Sylvie, 1 thing about the TVA, and nothing else is, to me, completely stalling for time. Edit: Just a disclaimer, I do understand the point of this episode was to get intimate Loki/Sylvie time, for them to earn each other's trust, and to get to the point where they are even properly partnering up to do cool poo poo. But also why did the police in the city want to fight them in the bar? All that dumb poo poo said, this was a thoroughly entertaining episode and I really enjoyed the little wink/nod to Snowpiercer. One other thing I wanna note: All the really cool multi-dimension/multi-timeline ideas people have had in this thread about how the TVA will be used by Disney and yadda yadda... none of that's happening. I really hope I'm wrong but I feel like any really cool idea people have about how the MCU is connected is never correct. And now that I've dunked my toe in this thread, tell me. How do those Loki variants that look nothing like Loki come into existence, anyway? It seems like the TVA kills variant timelines within 5 minutes or the entire universe explodes, so how the heck do any of them exist at all? DaveKap fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 11:11
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Psychedelicatessen posted:There's some gendery stuff going on too, but I don't know enough about that subject to properly comment on it Speaking as a trans person I really hope Loki/Sylvie's gender expression is something that's acknowledged in the script. At the moment all it really does is serve as shorthand to establish how different Sylvie's variant is to Loki's. It's not genderfluid if Loki and Sylvie's genders are both fixed which is why I hope they dive into it more. If they just leave it like this then all it does as come across as a bunch of cis people trying to do a gender thing to be inclusive and not really getting it.
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Jun 23, 2021 11:15
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Bleck posted:I do not trust Disney enough to believe that Sylvie is just straight up trans woman Loki, it would be really cool and positive and as such it'll never happen Loki seems like a being who swaps genders and even species like we change clothes to the degree that "trans" is too conventional a description for them. Meanwhile, Tom Hiddleston singing in Asgardian was amazing. He's kind of Hugh Laurie multi-talented, isn't he?
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Jun 23, 2021 11:22
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Oh that was fantastic. I loved the sense of hopeless dread that permeated through the scenes on Lamentis. Planetary collision is such a good sci-fi premise for an apocalypse event. And what a cliffhanger! You assume they’re getting out of this, (and they will because otherwise the next 3 episodes are going to be really weird), but plan after plan fails and it starts to feel legitimately bleak. Loki and Sylvie scrabbling around at the end like everyone else there, trying to uselessly stave off their demise, Loki starting to genuinely feel for these people about to die. It’ll be interesting to see what the implications of the TVA all being mindwiped variants are, aside from meaning the Timekeepers aren’t nearly as powerful as they claim.
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Jun 23, 2021 11:23
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I wonder if Richard E Grant, rather than being King Loki will simply be a variant Loki keeping the books at the TVA
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Jun 23, 2021 11:41
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ok that whole last sequence is probably in one of their minds. I'm not sure if it's Sylvie enchanting Loki earlier and creating a complicated illusion that somehow includes her sleeping, or Loki managing to figure out her tricks and enchanted her when she did fall asleep. There's no reason why that collapsing tower would just pause/reverse the way it did and neither of them has that power or appears to have it. We still have that bit in the trailer where they look out to the world dying (that people thought Slyvie was ScarJo) so that's probably where the veil is taken off.
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Jun 23, 2021 11:49
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DaveKap posted:One other thing I wanna note: All the really cool multi-dimension/multi-timeline ideas people have had in this thread about how the TVA will be used by Disney and yadda yadda... none of that's happening. I really hope I'm wrong but I feel like any really cool idea people have about how the MCU is connected is never correct. Yeah, it seems to me like a lot of people are expecting the TVA to be an ongoing concern in the MCU and I just don't see it. Like Agatha in WandaVision and the Flag Smahsers in FATWS, it exists to be part of Loki's story and I'd be shocked if it played any kind of major role in future(har) shows or films.
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Jun 23, 2021 11:52
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The Saddest Rhino posted:There's no reason why that collapsing tower would just pause/reverse the way it did and neither of them has that power or appears to have it. For some reason, I thought that was Loki using his telekinesis, since they brought it up twice in the previous episode. Although it was a much larger thing than anything we've ever seen him mess with. Alternatively, he kept the time stone from the drawer.
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Jun 23, 2021 11:54
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 gratuitous single-shot action sequenceFun episode, and I like the neon visuals. And further cements my desire for a marvel project that doesn't have a single fight scene, because all their small moments of people talking about absurd comic book nonsense are always so good. DaveKap posted:
What was the wink? Been a while since i saw the movie.
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Jun 23, 2021 11:59
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Rarity posted:Speaking as a trans person I really hope Loki/Sylvie's gender expression is something that's acknowledged in the script. At the moment all it really does is serve as shorthand to establish how different Sylvie's variant is to Loki's. It's not genderfluid if Loki and Sylvie's genders are both fixed which is why I hope they dive into it more. If they just leave it like this then all it does as come across as a bunch of cis people trying to do a gender thing to be inclusive and not really getting it. Bleck posted:I do not trust Disney enough to believe that Sylvie is just straight up trans woman Loki, it would be really cool and positive and as such it'll never happen I have no doubt Sylvie is the same entity as Loki. Though I am starting to wonder if she consciously chose a female appearance or if that's just how she was born/raised. It did seem odd that they were so open about their sexuality without even touching on the whole gender side of things. But hey, perhaps these are just cis versions of Loki and we'll meet Loki the God of Gender Mischief next season or something.
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Jun 23, 2021 12:02
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Strom Cuzewon posted:
I assume train for the very rich escaping disaster
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Jun 23, 2021 12:02
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The Saddest Rhino posted:ok that whole last sequence is probably in one of their minds. I'm not sure if it's Sylvie enchanting Loki earlier and creating a complicated illusion that somehow includes her sleeping, or Loki managing to figure out her tricks and enchanted her when she did fall asleep. There's no reason why that collapsing tower would just pause/reverse the way it did and neither of them has that power or appears to have it. Yeah this is where I'm at with this. The part where they sit at a table and he starts drinking and gets chatty feels like a callback to the beginning of the episode with the TVA lady in Sylvie's dream world. The collapsing/pausing/reversing tower felt like a fuckup that wasn't supposed to happen, and the one doing the enchanting is hoping the other didn't notice. Zellus fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 12:05
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Walrus Pete posted:Yeah, it seems to me like a lot of people are expecting the TVA to be an ongoing concern in the MCU and I just don't see it. Like Agatha in WandaVision and the Flag Smahsers in FATWS, it exists to be part of Loki's story and I'd be shocked if it played any kind of major role in future(har) shows or films. Especially since the more we learn about the TVA the more obvious it is that it's built on lies and manipulation.
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Jun 23, 2021 12:10
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Bleck posted:I do not trust Disney enough to believe that Sylvie is just straight up trans woman Loki, it would be really cool and positive and as such it'll never happen After Luca, seems like metaphor is going to be what Disney lets writers get away with. Having said that, she's literally an enchantress and they said it repeatedly throughout the episode.
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Jun 23, 2021 12:11
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Kal-L posted:After seeing some more of Lady Loki/Sylvie I've started to suspect that she's not a Loki variant . What I got from this episode is that she used to be Loki. The Time Crime/Variant Event was when her parents (presumably Odin and Frigga) decided to tell her she's adopted (which they don't do in other time lines). This makes the TVA interfere, Sylvie escapes somehow, and ends up as a wanted Time Criminal, even though the actual "Time Crime" was a decision her parents made, not her. She also says that she's been on the run for her entire life, and has only dream-like memories of her mother, implying that all of this happened when she was much, much younger. And as Thor and Loki are 1,500-years-old, that's potentially over a thousand years for her to live her life as Sylvie, a hunted criminal, instead of Loki, a princess and a goddess. She's biologically Loki, but as a person she's not. But all the TVA cares is who you were born as.
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Jun 23, 2021 12:12
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DaveKap posted:And now that I've dunked my toe in this thread, tell me. How do those Loki variants that look nothing like Loki come into existence, anyway? It seems like the TVA kills variant timelines within 5 minutes or the entire universe explodes, so how the heck do any of them exist at all? Honestly I think it's because the TVA are full of crap and this "sacred timeline" isn't the only timeline at all. I think a couple of hundred years ago the TVA just started policing this particular branch, and are trying to keep it "clean" to guarantee a specific future. Meanwhile, travellers from more distant branches occasionally travel through the multiverse, land on this branch and get eliminated/brainwashed by the TVA.
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Jun 23, 2021 12:34
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I’m just saying, they used Hayley Kiyoko in the opening scene. Girl’s almost certainly trans and gay.
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Jun 23, 2021 12:39
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Hoping for explicit trans representation in Disney’s biggest moneymaker universe is just asking to be let down really. I mean we’re not far out from Pixar explicitly denying that the most blatant gay allegory ever actually isn’t gay at all you guys we promise!!!!!!!!!
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Jun 23, 2021 12:43
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i mean we all know Disney's not gonna do full-blown representation. there's a reason why the opening scene had her saying "i'm your best friend."
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Jun 23, 2021 12:55
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Just Andi Now posted:For some reason, I thought that was Loki using his telekinesis, since they brought it up twice in the previous episode. Although it was a much larger thing than anything we've ever seen him mess with. Alternatively, he kept the time stone from the drawer. it definitely was this i mean maybe the theory you're responding to is right, but he literally yells "I got it!" and does a "im doing magic" thing with his hands, so we're certainly meant to think it was just telekinesis i'm betting we're not supposed to think too hard about precisely what his powers can do, but maybe it'll end up being her enchantment after all eke out fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 13:05
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The_Doctor posted:I assume train for the very rich escaping disaster Oh right. I was hoping for something more - that seems like quite a low bar for a wink.
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Jun 23, 2021 13:26
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TinTower posted:I’m just saying, they used Hayley Kiyoko in the opening scene. Girl’s almost certainly trans and gay. If Disney was ever going to do trans rep -- and they're not cause there's not a moral bone in their business strategy -- you'd think they'd cast a trans actress. And, again, even if this was the case, this is that lesbian vampire bit from the Celluloid Closet all over again. It's table scraps. Yaay cis transrep wooo yay gently caress off. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 13:53
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The revelation that everyone working in the TVA were once variants explains what the jetski magazine and the FDR High School pen are about I think. They're things that were important to them in their former lives.
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Jun 23, 2021 14:54
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GokuGoesSSJ3 posted:The revelation that everyone working in the TVA were once variants explains what the jetski magazine and the FDR High School pen are about I think. They're things that were important to them in their former lives. I love the idea that Mobius was a jet ski aficionado dad from the 90's Overall good episode as usual. And by the scenes on the credits someone is gonna really hop in the golden elevator to try and see the time lizards. I'm guessing the Timepad isnt destroyed and is already charged, Loki is just stalling and trying to get more information from Sylvie. I mean he is a trickster. That or Mobius has a tracker on Loki or something. And now I wonder who, or how many people, broke Loki's heart. Considering his talk about what is love for him.
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Jun 23, 2021 15:22
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Some fun plot developments, and the two leads bounced off each other really well. I liked that they both had a british-y thing going on too, and I've enjoyed having the show just lean into that and go "why not" with little things like Loki saying he wanted the other variant to be his left-tenant. I'm fully expecting that we'll get a reveal that we as the audience were tricked in some way with what we saw and heard onscreen in this episode. It seems like a real missed opportunity to team up two Lokis and then just not give us anything revealing that one tricked the other. One legit trick could be that Loki hid the actual Tempad right when they arrived, then conjured up a fake (and making it a real thing which ties back in to the illusion vs. matter alteration/creation or whatever distinction that Loki talked about in episode 2). The other obvious possibility is that Hiddleston's Loki got enchanted, the other variant lied about how their enchantment powers work, and we've just been seeing a long drawn-out hallucination since then. Really, the optimal outcome is that both of them somehow landed major tricks on each other, and it comes down to whose trick is slightly better.
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Jun 23, 2021 15:25
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Eh, I don't know. After thinking the first two episodes were basically perfect and exactly what I wanted out of this show, this episode felt somewhat lacking? Filler is probably too strong of a word, but it's on the right way. I get it was mostly about Loki and Sylvie establishing a relationship, but mostly they were talking about nothing. Loki trusts her because she says enchantment works because you "seize their mind"? Okay. The only thing we learn about Sylvie's background is that she knew she was adopted and spent her life on the run. I feel like I was hoping for a bit more than that. Like why she wants to burn the TVA to the ground? How she knows so much about the TVA? What her history with them is? Anything? They spent a lot of time specifically NOT talking about what I felt they should be talking about. Sylvie: "I had a plan!" Cool...what was that plan, once you got up the elevator? Finding out what we did about the TVA was cool, and I'm good with an episode where we mostly focus on character moments. But this didn't even feel like it had a lot of good character moments. And I remember thinking that when they get off the planet, the plot will be exactly where it was when the episode started. And then they didn't even get off the planet. Also, no Owen Wilson. I might like this episode better on a rewatch, if we learn there were enchantments being played, like some people are speculating. But if it's played straight, there wasn't really much going on here. It wasn't bad, it was...fine. Just not nearly as good as the first two, which was non-stop amazing poo poo.
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Jun 23, 2021 15:40
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Am I the only one thinking that Sylvie is the one gifting stuff to Renslayer. The globe, the pen, etc.
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Jun 23, 2021 15:46
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Sylvie states she had to reuse a bunch of stuff for her illusions for the minuteman. Did we see any repeating characters, objects, etc to indicate they were in an illusion? I know the one guard re-appears when Loki says "you again" but aside from him I didn't notice anyone else It also seemed more like Loki, rather than Sylvie was driving the pair's trek to recharge, and then later escape on the rocket, so my money is on it being him that has enchated Sylvie rather than the other way around. Plus when she went to sleep is to perfect time for him to do that.
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Jun 23, 2021 15:47
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The Saddest Rhino posted:ok that whole last sequence is probably in one of their minds. I'm not sure if it's Sylvie enchanting Loki earlier and creating a complicated illusion that somehow includes her sleeping, or Loki managing to figure out her tricks and enchanted her when she did fall asleep. There's no reason why that collapsing tower would just pause/reverse the way it did and neither of them has that power or appears to have it. Yeah that moment really stood out to me. The tower didn't just stand up, it reversed back up. Also I fully expect Owen Wilson to walk in from stage left at the start of the next episode because we've been shown that you can wander around total apocalypses without the TVA seeing you. And there's no way Wilson's character let Loki run around lose without some sort of tracker.
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Jun 23, 2021 15:56
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Desperado Bones posted:I love the idea that Mobius was a jet ski aficionado dad from the 90's It would explain his fondness for Josta too.
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Jun 23, 2021 15:58
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NowonSA posted:Some fun plot developments, and the two leads bounced off each other really well. I liked that they both had a british-y thing going on too, and I've enjoyed having the show just lean into that and go "why not" with little things like Loki saying he wanted the other variant to be his left-tenant. Seems likely that... something happened when Sylvie tried to enchant Loki. Perhaps it succeeded and he's being tricked into thinking it failed, perhaps Loki reversed the mind-hack and now has her under his illusion, but I can't really guess which it would be yet. At the very least, he was repeatedly trying to pump her for info on how her powers work while trying to make it seem natural, just like how Sylvie was treating the TVA agent at the restaurant. Except, that doesn't fully make sense, because if he already understands her powers well enough to enchant her, why is he trying to get her to tell him how enchanting works? Strange.
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Jun 23, 2021 15:59
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Kinda weird that last week Loki was getting the crap kicked out of him last week, but then this week: Is able to fight Sylvie to a standstill, if not gain the uper hand
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Jun 23, 2021 16:03
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tragedyjones posted:Kinda weird that last week Loki was getting the crap kicked out of him last week, but then this week: Is able to fight Sylvie to a standstill, if not gain the uper hand I don't think he was trying to stop her, just figure out what she was up to in the last episode. He's not really on the TVA's side, just kind of going along for the ride.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:05
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I think Loki was also pulling his punches in the fight at the end of episode 2, not wanting to hurt innocent people. I think seeing his future and Mobius' talk really got to him, so while he's not in a full good-guy Loki mode like he was at the end of Thor: Ragnarok, he's started to care about people at least a little instead of thinking of them just as sheep to be herded. He also expresses regret that everybody's going to die near the end of episode 3, which lends some more meat to this theory. There's still a lot on the table that could explain more about what's been going on in this episode. This is also the longest we've seen Loki outside of the TVA by far, and there's ample time for him to have picked up all sorts of useful things (another TimPad, some infinity stones) off camera from one of those lockers or elsewhere in the TVA while no one was watching him. I feel like they'll go ahead and do a reveal of some sort next episode to recontextualize episode 3, but I'm kind of hoping they wait until episode 5 or 6 and keep sprinkling in some "wait, wtf was that" moments that clue us in that something weird is going on, while waiting to explain what all that weird stuff was until right before the finale. Oh, and I'm convinced the TVA's for sure getting properly blown up by the end of the show. They keep adding in more little wrinkles that make them outright nefarious, and I think that's intentionally done so that when the whole system gets unraveled by the end of the series we're on board for it. It's also such a feel-good layup to have a mind-restored Mobius riding a Jet-Ski with his family on some new timeline/multiverse and I don't think they'll miss the chance to do that.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:25
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thrawn527 posted:Eh, I don't know. After thinking the first two episodes were basically perfect and exactly what I wanted out of this show, this episode felt somewhat lacking? Filler is probably too strong of a word, but it's on the right way. I get it was mostly about Loki and Sylvie establishing a relationship, but mostly they were talking about nothing. Loki trusts her because she says enchantment works because you "seize their mind"? Okay. The only thing we learn about Sylvie's background is that she knew she was adopted and spent her life on the run. I feel like I was hoping for a bit more than that. Like why she wants to burn the TVA to the ground? How she knows so much about the TVA? What her history with them is? Anything? They spent a lot of time specifically NOT talking about what I felt they should be talking about. Sylvie: "I had a plan!" Cool...what was that plan, once you got up the elevator? I think we learned more about Sylvie than what was explicitly said. We all know Loki/Sylvie was adopted. Now this may just be speculation, but what it looks like to me is that there was a timeline where Odin and Frigga told Loki/Sylvie that she was adopted. That went against the sacred timeline because Loki wasn't supposed to be told that until Thor 2. The TVA barge in to reset everything, but Sylvie's too cunning to stay and get pruned. She sneaks past the minutemen, steals some TVA tech, and spends her life on the run from them while hiding out in apocalypses. As for what her big plan is, we still don't have all the pieces, but it seems like Sylvie is a version of Loki who had to fight for survival from a very young age without her family or a place to call home. I do agree that "no Owen Wilson" was a shame.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:27
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