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Gort posted:people who know what words mean I’m clipping the Oxford dictionary RIGHT NOW
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Jun 23, 2021 18:07
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Imo the abstraction of x clippers to a man o'war is fine. By late game I think it would make specific production lines for steel capital ships, which were a thing even a country like Britain could only lay down so many of at once.
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Jun 23, 2021 18:21
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I vote that sailing ships be called Clippers and steamships called Lakers
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Jun 23, 2021 19:26
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AnoHito posted:Gonna make a "Ford's Nightmare" mod, which will do to trade goods what Voltaire's Nightmare did to the HRE. 90% of the new goods are different colours of car paint.
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Jun 23, 2021 19:35
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Victoria 3 is introducing a fun new mascot, Clippy the Clipper, who will occasionally pop up and offer helpful advice!
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Jun 23, 2021 19:38
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VostokProgram posted:I vote that sailing ships be called Clippers and steamships called Lakers hell 
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Jun 23, 2021 19:40
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I liked that one mod that added Stocks as a good.
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Jun 23, 2021 19:57
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Crazycryodude posted:Specifically points that you stockpile and then spend in big lump sums, mana isn't just "any resource in a game" but saving up 120 dove points to build some more plantations instantly when you hit the button. Victoria 3's capacities look a lot better to me, even if in practical terms locking 10 dove capacity points per month on promoting plantation construction for a year is kinda the same as saving up 120 dove points. It just "feels" more like a simulation than a board game in my head if the ship of state is slower to turn and there's like a streaming economy that takes time and intention to do things rather than stockpiling arbitrary dove points that are perfectly fungible and can be converted into any kind of dove project instantly on demand. Just a note, dove points don't allow instant constructions on eu4 and as far as I'm aware never did
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Jun 23, 2021 20:00
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Mans posted:Just a note, dove points don't allow instant constructions on eu4 and as far as I'm aware never did
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Jun 23, 2021 20:20
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Yeah I was talking about the province development, not buildings. It just feels wrong to be able to instantly conjure a bunch of military infrastructure or plantations or taxable peasants on command with resources you were originally saving up for something else entirely, I like things to require intention and time and not be able to instantly react. EU4 buildings feel a lot better to me (would feel even better if they cost 20 ducats per month for 2 years rather than a lump sum of 480 at once though) because at least they take a while to finish building and you can't instantly summon a bunch when you suddenly find yourself at war or whatever.
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jun 24, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 20:47
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That's fair and yeah I agree.
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Jun 23, 2021 22:51
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AnoHito posted:Gonna make a "Ford's Nightmare" mod, which will do to trade goods what Voltaire's Nightmare did to the HRE. if each nations railroad don't have different gauges with varying small stat changes requiring special tooling factories, I will lose my ability to feel human
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Jun 23, 2021 22:55
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Gaius Marius posted:You should probably read a more nuanced history of the war tbh. The generals in WWI were constantly innovating and switching tactics to try and break the stalemate on the Western Front Well, I think the one thing that could be taken from that is the importance of mobilization speed, I remember it being a lil too quick in vicky II.
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Jun 23, 2021 23:08
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Did infrastructure affect mobilization speed in Vicky 2? That would be pretty cool.
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Jun 24, 2021 00:36
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people are whining about clippers but we havent had confirmation on tanks returning to their true name: barrels
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Jun 24, 2021 01:25
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i feel pretty stupid because i am not familiar with this series so every time i saw people mention clippers before i thought people before were talking like nail or hair clippers or something and i was like "ah yeah, it is pretty funny the capitalists would waste their money on that, good commentary. strange game though"
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Jun 24, 2021 01:39
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Wiz posted:Then by all means let me know when you've figured out that best catchall term (that isn't something clunky as hell like "wooden sailboats") ("Clippers" is fine though. This is just if you're actually looking for an alternative.)
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Jun 24, 2021 03:01
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Clippers and Lakers is the only good idea.
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Jun 24, 2021 03:08
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You could combine clippers and steamers together as "Hulls" which represents the time and skill required (so a lot more for steamers) and then shift some of the inputs over to secondaries; like wood, cloth, iron for wooden sailing ships; a combination of that and steel and coal for ironclads and then shift over to steel, artillery, fuel and a LOT more hulls; this helps abstract the idea that your shipbuilding industry is increasing in size and ability and not just phasing out say clippers somewhere around 1860 for steamers; when things like slipways, drydocks, cranes, etc are a continuous thing that expands and develops. You can then maybe split automotives and make "engines" a separate good and use that in small amounts for ironclads and then larger amounts for steam turbines. Even better you can now add locomotives and trucks to the game and use engines for a variety of goods.
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Jun 24, 2021 03:09
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karmicknight posted:Clippers and Lakers is the only good idea. bonus points if you get a “basketball invented event” if you have factories for both in a state
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Jun 24, 2021 04:56
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Raenir Salazar posted:You could combine clippers and steamers together as "Hulls" which represents the time and skill required (so a lot more for steamers) and then shift some of the inputs over to secondaries; like wood, cloth, iron for wooden sailing ships; a combination of that and steel and coal for ironclads and then shift over to steel, artillery, fuel and a LOT more hulls; this helps abstract the idea that your shipbuilding industry is increasing in size and ability and not just phasing out say clippers somewhere around 1860 for steamers; when things like slipways, drydocks, cranes, etc are a continuous thing that expands and develops.
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Jun 24, 2021 05:45
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Snooze Cruise posted:i feel pretty stupid because i am not familiar with this series so every time i saw people mention clippers before i thought people before were talking like nail or hair clippers or something and i was like "ah yeah, it is pretty funny the capitalists would waste their money on that, good commentary. strange game though" I thought the exact same thing.
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Jun 24, 2021 05:46
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1407699966609346561 This rules. I wonder if more advanced production methods will require fewer laborers. That could simulate the impact of technological advancement way better than the simple "efficiency goes up" in V2.
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Jun 24, 2021 06:04
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:This rules. I wonder if more advanced production methods will require fewer laborers. That could simulate the impact of technological advancement way better than the simple "efficiency goes up" in V2. Feels like it would have to be, since that would lead to less jobs, less employed pops, and more resentment towards these new machines that was absolutely a source of unrest in the 1830’s at the very least. Would jive with the whole idea of the game being about the decisions you make and the consequences of them. “Do I try to invest in more efficient wool spinners and raise the ire of those employed in that profession, or do I leave it be, leading to long-term financial negligence?”
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Jun 24, 2021 06:58
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Crazycryodude posted:Yeah I was talking about the province development, not buildings. It just feels wrong to be able to instantly conjure a bunch of military infrastructure or plantations or taxable peasants on command with resources you were originally saving up for something else entirely, I like things to require intention and time and not be able to instantly react. EU4 buildings feel a lot better to me (would feel even better if they cost 20 ducats per month for 2 years rather than a lump sum of 480 at once though) because at least they take a while to finish building and you can't instantly summon a bunch when you suddenly find yourself at war or whatever. To me MP always felt like abstraction saying "that's what our administrators have actually worked on for some time". Like when you flip the switch and suddenly your troops fight better or your ships sail farther. Inertia was always an important element of planning in strategic games but EU still has a lot of it. It would make more sense in Victoria. Considerations about somebody's growing power or ongoing reforms making people vurnerable in short-term make much more sense there.
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Jun 24, 2021 08:18
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ilitarist posted:To me MP always felt like abstraction saying "that's what our administrators have actually worked on for some time".
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Jun 24, 2021 09:47
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That's a question of your personal suspension of disbelief. Is that a more bizarre simplification than your ability to see and control your army half of the world away in 1500? That kind of thing bothers me much more, but some people are OK with that.
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Jun 24, 2021 10:24
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:This rules. I wonder if more advanced production methods will require fewer laborers. That could simulate the impact of technological advancement way better than the simple "efficiency goes up" in V2. I absolutely hope it's made this way. Better tech makes it so that factories require fewer laborers, some people get laid off, and the excess laborforce allows the building of more factories. Unrest, and economic expansion. I also hope that there will be an option to have the AI capitalists auto-invest their stuff. I really don't understand why they couldn't make it work, because in theory an investment calculation is simple, it's gathering the parameters that's hard, IRL. All the components of calculating what to build are there: 1. Output price 2. Input price 3. Wages 4. Construction costs. It's just a matter of calculating expected profit and dividing it by the construction cost to get a return on investment rate, and then picking from the best.  Or am I missing something here? Sure, the market will have swings and that will destroy some companies, but isn't that what happens and happened all the time in the real world too? Watching the capitalists construct factories and the economy expanding was fascinating in vicky 2.
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Jun 24, 2021 10:33
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When I was younger, clipper was a fine name because the point here isn't to state that you're building a literal, specific type of boat that was used to traffic opium or whatever. It was a simple term to designate a vessel with sails, as opposed to the incoming ships that had motors on them. But the game also called basically everyone in the world uncivilized, so there might be an argument on taking a look into the naming department.
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Jun 24, 2021 10:51
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ilitarist posted:That's a question of your personal suspension of disbelief. Is that a more bizarre simplification than your ability to see and control your army half of the world away in 1500? That kind of thing bothers me much more, but some people are OK with that.
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Jun 24, 2021 10:54
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I mean the game is going to simplify. Hell it should simplify, complicating to tediousness is a horrible idea.
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Jun 24, 2021 14:59
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CharlestheHammer posted:All your suggestions literally only really matter to war which has already been said is not the focus and will not be the focus. The focus of this game is internal politics more than anything. But isn't that the point? Since war is not the focus of Vicky it allows the designers to experiment with it in ways they wouldn't be able to if it was a focus.
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Jun 24, 2021 15:36
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Charlz Guybon posted:But isn't that the point? Since war is not the focus of Vicky it allows the designers to experiment with it in ways they wouldn't be able to if it was a focus. I mean I would think you would experiment the on the focus while playing it safe with everything else. If not what’s the point of it being the focus. Especially assuming limited dev time
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Jun 24, 2021 15:39
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Raskolnikov38 posted:bonus points if you get a “basketball invented event” if you have factories for both in a state US and Canada should get "who invented basketball" CBs on each other
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Jun 24, 2021 15:57
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:if each nations railroad don't have different gauges with varying small stat changes requiring special tooling factories, I will lose my ability to feel human
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Jun 24, 2021 16:28
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean I would think you would experiment the on the focus while playing it safe with everything else. If not what’s the point of it being the focus. Especially assuming limited dev time Same for Vic3. It will live and die on the economy, so they should feel free to experiment with everything else. (Of course, one can argue that warfare was a solved problem for the HoI series, while Vicky has never had a working economy and that changes things.)
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Jun 24, 2021 16:54
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https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-5-production-methods.1480760/
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Jun 24, 2021 17:03
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean I would think you would experiment the on the focus while playing it safe with everything else. If not what’s the point of it being the focus. Especially assuming limited dev time This doesn't really make sense; why experiment on the thing that makes or break the game for your audience? We would like to hope the economy has had the most thought and effort out of any mechanic out of any game released to date so that it is responsive to player interaction to the degree everyone hoped the previous Victoria economies would. If warfare is not the focus of the game, and whose experience is less likely to effect the player's enjoyment that gives the devs license to find some new young dev who just joined the team and point them in the direction of the war mechanics and go "Have fun, let us know what you come up with" (I am of course exaggerating how this would/should go but you get the idea). But again I repeat that the fact that whether the dev's say something is or is not the focus is no reason or impediment to our discussion thereof either for the release or a hypothetical DLC if its a bombshell success and especially so if players ask for more war mechanics (Which they will, because they always do). And also just because something isn't the focus doesn't mean it gets 0 hours of work; clearly some amount of work is going to go into it because it will exist in the game; how many hours to make it polished or working above merely functioning you can't say how much that can be so you're not really in a position to tell people not to discuss it.
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Jun 24, 2021 17:05
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https://twitter.com/PDXVictoria/status/1408092804652310529 e:  
Takanago fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jun 24, 2021 |
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Jun 24, 2021 17:13
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Vicky 3 when
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Jun 24, 2021 17:17
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