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Lol where would they store the batteries for every car that came through? Was it like a coat check where you present your ticket to get your battery back? Your capacity at that point is bounded by your physical space. Instead of superchargers you have battery warehouses, and you can just run out of ones to offer. This idea completely falls apart if you think about it for more than a minute. I guess that's why it didn't go anywhere.
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Jun 24, 2021 22:57
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Finger Prince posted:It kind of sounds a bit like, and bear with me here, but the clutch interlock on manual transmission cars that won't let you start the car without the clutch pedal depressed. That's so if someone leaves the car in gear when parked, you don't just start it up and it lurches forward over your pet rabbit or into the car parked in front of you. They don't do that in Europe/UK afaik, there you're free to hop and stall whenever someone parks and leaves the car in not-neutral. The brake pedal is the movement interlock. Car isn't going anywhere until you release the brake and press the accelerator (unless it creeps). I don't think any manual car of the past two decades starts when you don't press the clutch pedal, same in Europe as anywhere else. And parking in gear is absolutely what you should be doing with a manual, as a failsafe for the parking brake. Either in 1 or R (always the opposite of the rolling direction when you're parking on an incline). Always park in gear. Nitrousoxide posted:Hyundai does need to improve their regen UI and parameters, I think. The Ioniq Electric doesn't fully brake either set to level 3, but I find it to be very pleasant. I've read that it's tuned differently, and significantly better than on the plug-in model.
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Jun 24, 2021 23:01
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I was expecting this thread to explode with ev excitement, but then read the article where it’s pretty clear that it’s going to be a hybrid. I hope I’m wrong but Mazda….
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Jun 24, 2021 23:15
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Beffer posted:I was expecting this thread to explode with ev excitement, but then read the article where it’s pretty clear that it’s going to be a hybrid. I hope I’m wrong but Mazda…. The Miata will be all electric when you can get 300 miles of range in a 2500 lb car. Otherwise, it's not a Miata.
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Jun 24, 2021 23:18
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Waiting for the Mazda EV with Skyactiv-X technology, where combustion of lithium-ion cells is used for propulsion.
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Jun 24, 2021 23:18
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Fame Douglas posted:I don't think any manual car of the past two decades starts when you don't press the clutch pedal, same in Europe as anywhere else. I've heard if you hold the left paddle it will regen to a stop in the full electric Ioniq. It doesn't seem to work for my plug in though.
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Jun 24, 2021 23:20
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Beffer posted:I was expecting this thread to explode with ev excitement, but then read the article where it’s pretty clear that it’s going to be a hybrid. I hope I’m wrong but Mazda…. I was expecting a lot of "Oh HELL no" personally. Just let the nameplate die rather than making it a heavy EV or hybrid or just let it be the last ICE and t drives into history in 2030. Or Mazda could just repower it with a hydrogen fuelled rotary. Mazda had a fleet of RX-8's powered by hydrogen nearly 20 years ago
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Jun 24, 2021 23:29
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Directly burning hydrogen without a fuel cell is super inefficient. BMW had a demo car burning hydrogen as well during that time, which had the equivalent CO2 emissions of a big rig truck.
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Jun 24, 2021 23:31
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Fame Douglas posted:Directly burning hydrogen without a fuel cell is super inefficient. BMW had a demo car burning hydrogen as well during that time, which had the equivalent CO2 emissions of a big rig truck. How does H₂ combustion create CO₂? Is this some sort of end-to-end thing where creating pure H₂ burns a buttload of coal, which pumps out CO₂?
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Jun 24, 2021 23:42
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cruft posted:How does H₂ combustion create CO₂? Is this some sort of end-to-end thing where creating pure H₂ burns a buttload of coal, which pumps out CO₂? Not coal, but steam reforming from Methane which produces tons of CO₂
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Jun 24, 2021 23:48
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Methane? Okay gonna need to see some proof on that as the pollutant issue appears to be Nitrogen oxides, not carbon based pollutants due to high temperature incomplete combustion? The perfect H2 combustion leads to water of course and the in general solution to the nitorgen oxide issue was a lean burn mixture that promoted a more complete combustion which a rotary can do.
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Jun 25, 2021 00:33
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Okay.
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Jun 25, 2021 00:35
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Methane? Okay gonna need to see some proof on that as the pollutant issue appears to be Nitrogen oxides, not carbon based pollutants due to high temperature incomplete combustion? The perfect H2 combustion leads to water of course and the in general solution to the nitorgen oxide issue was a lean burn mixture that promoted a more complete combustion which a rotary can do. He’s talking about the production of the hydrogen, not the combustion of it.
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Jun 25, 2021 00:37
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nm
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Jun 25, 2021 00:39
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nvm
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Jun 25, 2021 00:40
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NM
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Jun 25, 2021 00:41
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To get the discussion back on track, I think even when they're not burning the hydrogen in the engine, fuel cell cars are still of very dubious efficiency. Can't imagine they are the future, either.
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Jun 25, 2021 00:43
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bird with big dick posted:He’s talking about the production of the hydrogen, not the combustion of it. That one way to create hydrogen, but there's also electrolysis which I am not aware has a methane issue? Edit : Not really on topic anymore dropping it.
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Jun 25, 2021 00:43
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:That one way to create hydrogen, but there's also electrolysis which I am not aware has a methane issue? The issue is that most hydrogen is produced through steam reformation. Which is why the environmental friendliness of that BMW was in question.
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Jun 25, 2021 00:44
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As someone who learned how to drive on a 1992 Miata (last year with the pop-up headlights): Yeeessssssssssss
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Jun 25, 2021 00:52
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Turning the brake pedal into the go pedal but only in certain specific situations doesn’t seem like a great way to combat pedal confusion. My last ICE car would refuse to start its engine unless your foot was on the brake. My Model 3 behaves the same way, it will not let you shift out of park unless you have your foot on the brake. Getting rid of the stalks in the Plaid is dumb, but having to put your foot on the brake to "start" the car is nothing new in the EV space or otherwise.
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Jun 25, 2021 01:03
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Even if the hydrogen in that BMW test vehicle was sourced in a renewable way, there's still some nitrous oxide emissions from the high combustion temps.
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Jun 25, 2021 01:11
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Indiana_Krom posted:My last ICE car would refuse to start its engine unless your foot was on the brake. My Model 3 behaves the same way, it will not let you shift out of park unless you have your foot on the brake. Getting rid of the stalks in the Plaid is dumb, but having to put your foot on the brake to "start" the car is nothing new in the EV space or otherwise. My 2008 Mazda 3 didn't require a foot on the brake to start the car, though it of course required it to shift out of park. My Ioniq does require a foot on the brake for both. I was very confused when I tried to do my test drive for the ioniq. Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 01:25
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Indiana_Krom posted:My last ICE car would refuse to start its engine unless your foot was on the brake. My Model 3 behaves the same way, it will not let you shift out of park unless you have your foot on the brake. Getting rid of the stalks in the Plaid is dumb, but having to put your foot on the brake to "start" the car is nothing new in the EV space or otherwise. Read the post I was responding to again. Almost every car being made today requires you to have the brake engaged to start the car. That is not the same as: quote:I read up on the Tesla auto-shift, it seems as soon as you take your foot completely off the brake pedal, it stops the car.
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Jun 25, 2021 01:30
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RZA Encryption posted:Wasn't that always a "sounds better than the reality" thing and they just did it anyway for some grant money? I wouldn't want to do battery swaps because there's no reason to believe the battery you swap to won't be worse than your own. If my battery degraded I'd def. keep swapping until I got a "good" one. If you're a Tesla owner who doesn't charge to 100% and doesn't use superchargers frequently, it would suck to get a battery from someone who does that every week. It would only make sense with a battery as a service model that some places already do in Europe. But Tesla got a number of extra zero emission vehicle credits per vehicle sold as long as they had "demonstrated" the technology, rather than making it widely available. That was worth something like $400MM until CARB got wise and removed the credits. More of a subsidy hustle than a useful feature.
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Jun 25, 2021 04:17
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Fame Douglas posted:I don't think any manual car of the past two decades starts when you don't press the clutch pedal, same in Europe as anywhere else. I started my wife's Holden (Daewoo) in R a while ago and it merrily took off backwards down the hill. I had to run after it and stomp on the brake and got whacked by a car door in the chest to pay me back.
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Jun 25, 2021 04:27
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Nfcknblvbl posted:Even if the hydrogen in that BMW test vehicle was sourced in a renewable way, there's still some nitrous oxide emissions from the high combustion temps. Just carry a O2 tank in the car next to the H2.
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Jun 25, 2021 04:29
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~Coxy posted:I started my wife's Holden (Daewoo) in R a while ago and it merrily took off backwards down the hill. The poor thing just wanted to die, why prolong its suffering?
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Jun 25, 2021 06:40
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Nitrousoxide posted:I've heard if you hold the left paddle it will regen to a stop in the full electric Ioniq. It doesn't seem to work for my plug in though.
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Jun 25, 2021 19:26
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The Model 3 and Leaf 2 have something in common where you can choose a one pedal mode which brings the car to a stop and holds it, or use creep. I like the choice. Creep is better for parking, hold better for comfort.
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Jun 25, 2021 19:35
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The i3's one pedal driving will take you to a complete stop, but as soon as it reaches 0 the brake lights turn off, which makes no sense to me. I always end up pressing the brake at stop signs and red lights so people behind me can see I'm clearly stopped.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:36
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~Coxy posted:I started my wife's Holden (Daewoo) in R a while ago and it merrily took off backwards down the hill. LOL, congratulations on your new thread title.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:42
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RZA Encryption posted:Lol where would they store the batteries for every car that came through? Was it like a coat check where you present your ticket to get your battery back? Your capacity at that point is bounded by your physical space. Instead of superchargers you have battery warehouses, and you can just run out of ones to offer. This idea completely falls apart if you think about it for more than a minute. I guess that's why it didn't go anywhere. Storage is not very hard, you don't get YOUR battery back you just get A battery. The number you need as spares is really low compared to the number of units in operation you have. You could manage the demand problem pretty effectively by using fast charging for the batteries once they come off the cars that are coming in. If a swap takes 5 minutes and a full charge takes four hours, you need at most 48 inventoried batteries for each swap position to ensure that there's always a battery for the customer. Hardly insurmountable inventory and space problems.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:59
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My only real feeling on regen being on the brake pedal or being one pedal driving like Tesla is that it should be one or the other, and not some weird middle ground. GM’s some-regen-with 0% throttle-but-not-all-of-it-unless-you-pull-a-paddle makes brake tuning a ton harder for no real gain. Electric cars are not planetary automatic ICE cars, and the sooner we can all get past the idea that something might be mildly different from something else and therefor worse, the better.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:59
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Storage is not very hard, you don't get YOUR battery back you just get A battery. The number you need as spares is really low compared to the number of units in operation you have. You could manage the demand problem pretty effectively by using fast charging for the batteries once they come off the cars that are coming in. If a swap takes 5 minutes and a full charge takes four hours, you need at most 48 inventoried batteries for each swap position to ensure that there's always a battery for the customer. Hardly insurmountable inventory and space problems. I think this only works if you have a warehouse nearby that contains the actual stockpile for your local stores/stations.
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Jun 26, 2021 02:47
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Storage is not very hard, you don't get YOUR battery back you just get A battery. The number you need as spares is really low compared to the number of units in operation you have. You could manage the demand problem pretty effectively by using fast charging for the batteries once they come off the cars that are coming in. If a swap takes 5 minutes and a full charge takes four hours, you need at most 48 inventoried batteries for each swap position to ensure that there's always a battery for the customer. Hardly insurmountable inventory and space problems. Same electrical infrastructure but without any inventory to deal with nor associated labor for physical swaps. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 26, 2021 04:04
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Storage is not very hard, you don't get YOUR battery back you just get A battery. The number you need as spares is really low compared to the number of units in operation you have. You could manage the demand problem pretty effectively by using fast charging for the batteries once they come off the cars that are coming in. If a swap takes 5 minutes and a full charge takes four hours, you need at most 48 inventoried batteries for each swap position to ensure that there's always a battery for the customer. Hardly insurmountable inventory and space problems. And this isn’t even theoretical anymore. Nio is already widely implementing swap stations throughout china. The Gen 2 swap stations hold 13 batteries in storage and can do a max of 312 swaps in a day. The stations aren’t even that big, about the size of 2 shipping containers. Here’s a great video showing the first and second generation swapping stations as well as a breakdown of their advantages and disadvantages. Kind of long winded but has some good info such as the breakdown of costs compared to DC fast charge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k_G8CwY1rU GlassEye-Boy fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 26, 2021 05:00
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Methane? Okay gonna need to see some proof on that as the pollutant issue appears to be Nitrogen oxides, not carbon based pollutants due to high temperature incomplete combustion? The perfect H2 combustion leads to water of course and the in general solution to the nitorgen oxide issue was a lean burn mixture that promoted a more complete combustion which a rotary can do. 95% of the hydrogen used in fuel cell cars is from natural gas.
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Jun 26, 2021 06:40
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GlassEye-Boy posted:And this isn’t even theoretical anymore. Nio is already widely implementing swap stations throughout china. The Gen 2 swap stations hold 13 batteries in storage and can do a max of 312 swaps in a day. The stations aren’t even that big, about the size of 2 shipping containers. That's really cool, thanks for posting the video!
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Jun 27, 2021 01:24
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Yeah, I'll also be surprised if it's anything more than a mild hybrid. 
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Jun 27, 2021 08:35
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