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Azuth0667
Sep 20, 2011

By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.

manpurse posted:

Hi Manpurse,

As a team lead (I am not a team lead. I dont get paid to be a team lead, I dont have the title of team lead, I have just been here the longest) you need bring the team together, not drive them apart. Many of us have been working from home for over a year now and are doing so successfully in a challenging time. While we have seen many benefits to new ways of working, the Where We Work project team found that company culture and our ability to work together on complex initiatives can be negatively impacted when people are not regularly connecting with one another in person. That being said, we are looking at letting employees work from home part time after successfully applying to the program and with a satisfactory performance review (our company gives between 1-5 on your rating. It has no impact on your pay, bonus, career development. Corporate mandates we have a certain number of 1,2,3,4,5, so 95% of people get 3s). In the future please do not bring up your personal grievances during team meetings.


There has been such backlash that management is avoiding the question issue altogether, telling us to reach out to senior management, or the union. Or CEO recorded a video message yesterday, a key message being "vaccination is a personal choice and, as an employer, we respect that."

September is gonna be hilarious.

The amount of passive-aggressive bullshit in that is amazing.

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vyst
Aug 25, 2009



You should fire back a reply with a goatse

Cthulu Carl
Apr 16, 2006

SubnormalityStairs posted:

    *Shortly after COVID started, anybody who could WFH started WFH. This was great, but they got rid of the cafeteria staff and replaced all the coffee with a single coffee machine. This coffee machine can serve up a single cup of coffee in about a minute. It's good coffee, and this is fine with 1/10th of our workforce in the office, but now they're talking about bringing everybody back. This is not going to work with 400 people in the building.
    *They're not bringing back any of the cafeteria staff. Instead, they installed a lovely self-serve system with junk food and truck-stop sandwiches. Which are overpriced. And not enough for our 400 people. There are no other food options within walking distance as we're in an industrial park.

Of the dumb things my company has done during covid (not including writing off a 10 year lease on a second site in our area because who could have seen this coming in 2019?), they at least kept one person at the cafeteria and kept stocking one of the self-serve vending areas. I dunno if it was an official policy or if she just took charge, but Mondays the 20-30 people in the building could have gotten a free lunch and she basically threw the menu out the window so you could ask her to make anything you wanted.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Hyrax Attack! posted:

That's interesting I hadn't heard that term before. Knew someone in college who's dad had been a creator of Oregon Trail and they were baffled how it had achieved near total cultural saturation in our generation.

Schools got a lot of Apple ][s and ][es, or other similar hardware. They all had some edutainment software of some kind, but The Oregon Trail was the only one that let people die of dysentery, and persisted the graves, so you could run across

HERE LIES BUTTCHEEKS
DIED OF DYSENTERY

Hell with the other games when you could see that an rear end poo poo itself to death last Tuesday.


Are you already on your way out the door? If you are I hope you ask them whether they actually believe any of that.

TITTIEKISSER69
Mar 19, 2005

SAVE THE BEES
PLANT MORE TREES
CLEAN THE SEAS
KISS TITTIESS




zedprime posted:

The Buddha called together his directors for a root cause analysis on the recently cancelled software project.
"It's the developers' fault because they left." shouted the director of North American Sales.
"It's the architects' fault because they chose impossible technical groundworks." shouted the director of North American Implementation
"It's the sales people's fault because they promised impossible features to the customers." shouted the director of North American Technical Architecture.

The Buddha nodded and spake: "why did you guys hire the Buddha to run a capitalist enterprise anyway, this is so not my speed." And took a giant rip from his bong before walking out of the conference.

Thusly the directors returned to their petty fiefs trapped in the samsara of software development for only a few weeks longer before the company dissolved.

I love this

manpurse
Mar 19, 2007

Volmarias posted:


Are you already on your way out the door? If you are I hope you ask them whether they actually believe any of that.

I am stuck with my golden handcuffs... the other company is offering 40K less, 2 weeks less vacation, no defined pension. Guess it's time to do the bare minimum until i'm 55 and then collect my sweet, sweet pension. gently caress people for killing unions everywhere.

hooliganesh
Aug 1, 2003

REPENT!

Zarin posted:

I really wonder how long it'll take me to be competent/good at this job, considering that:
• The training has been garbage
• The documentation is incomplete/confusing/wrong (sometimes more than one)
• I'm being pulled in different directions constantly
• Every time I feel like I'm beginning to master a process, I discover missing/undocumented process steps that have not been performed in X (where X can range from a couple months to three years)

Are you my I.T. field services work doppelganger!?


AHH F/UGH posted:

...
And in the end, remember the situation you were in at your last job and how lovely that was and just thank god you're not there still

Good point - thank you. I hope to never work for redneck boomers again, ever.

Lascivious Sloth
Apr 26, 2008

by sebmojo

SubnormalityStairs posted:

We're doing our best, but there's only so much we can do, and we can't fix the actual problems.

This has been a low-cost area for a long drat time, and so it's also been a low-salary area, relative to the rest of North America. And our office in particular pays less than even the rest of the places around here. However, we've always been able to retain talent because of benefits not present at many other places. The work/life balance has been great (almost no overtime, ever), we had a great cafeteria with low-cost great food (like a complete butter chicken meal for $7 CDN). We had dedicated kitchen staff who kept the free coffee flowing all dang day. We had a merit-based cash award system that had a per-person max per year that was not amazing but still a nice perk. Managers could evaluate team members based on performance, period. Raises and promotions were two separate processes, done in two rounds per year: one for lvl 1-3, and one for lvl 4+ - this meant we could promote based on merit when people were ready, and the bucket for raises were large enough that everybody got at least cost-of-living every year and those who performed well got more. We have a STIP for lvl 4+ that used to be based on personal MBOs. People have tended to stay with the company for a long time, like my senior guys are both 18 years with the company.

Some of this started backsliding over the past few years, but it's been a slow decline.

  • Open evaluations became curve-based, which is loving stupid and I hate it.
  • Raises and promotions got mashed into a single round of both for everybody. Now if I want to promote somebody, I literally have to take away from everybody else's raises. Hardly anybody is even getting cost-of-living anymore. It sucks, and I hate it.
  • Our per-person cash reward system has become a per-team budget points-for-products system which has a dollar value average of less than 1/4 what it was before. It's awesome, I love it! Wait no I hate it.
  • Our STIP has gone from mainly personal MBOs to mainly org MBOs which are almost never met so our bonuses have been cut in half or worse. Not sure how I feel about this one. Wait no I know exactly how I feel - I hate it.

This was all bad enough, but it was spread out over enough time that people got used to each individual lovely thing. Over the past year, however, poo poo has REALLY accelerated.

  • Shortly after COVID started, anybody who could WFH started WFH. This was great, but they got rid of the cafeteria staff and replaced all the coffee with a single coffee machine. This coffee machine can serve up a single cup of coffee in about a minute. It's good coffee, and this is fine with 1/10th of our workforce in the office, but now they're talking about bringing everybody back. This is not going to work with 400 people in the building.
  • They're not bringing back any of the cafeteria staff. Instead, they installed a lovely self-serve system with junk food and truck-stop sandwiches. Which are overpriced. And not enough for our 400 people. There are no other food options within walking distance as we're in an industrial park.
  • Our lovely little city has absolutely exploded, our cost of living has exploded, housing prices have exploded, and our already-small salaries now feel much smaller.
  • Actually smart businesses have realized that they can have remote workers and still get poo poo done. Our devs are able to get good salaries and not move.

And we're talking about returning to the office, which is absolutely the stupidest thing they could do at this point.

I can do nothing about most of this poo poo. I can be as fair as possible with the raises and promotions, but I can't force finance to give me a bigger bucket to work with. The curve, the rewards, the in-office work is all pushed down to us. I can't fund the cafeteria.

So I go into our system, and flag every single person on my team as a High Retention Risk. HR is already aware that we're losing people. I don't give my guys poo poo about vacation time or personal time or any other time for anything, ever. I do my best to unblock people, and abstract as much bullshit away from them as possible. Not that it was happening often before, but I now absolutely refuse to ask anybody to do overtime. I honestly don't know what else I can do.

I mean, you should just leave, if you can, or whenever you can.

mindstorm
Jan 28, 2011

Smellrose
The "return to work" plan has been fleshed out in more detail. Designers have to be in the office at least two days a week, driven by the rationale of one director. "We need to foster collaboration which has suffered during the pandemic." As a side note, older employees aren't logging into MS Teams to collaborate with team members because use of MS Teams is still optional (using your email is mandatory, but they don't consistently email folks either). The directors won't explain how collaboration will be vastly improved if you're in the office 40% of the time instead of 20% of the time. Designers work in randomly assigned teams and project teams aren't going to be scheduled to be in the office on the same days.

The new instructions from HR allow telework up to 4 days a week, if the supervisor allows it. The revised policy has been presented as a privilege. A few folks in management were real indignant that people considered it a benefit. Per a work-from-home survey they funded, most of our folks want to telework full time and are more productive from home. Some folks (about 10-15%) reported they were less productive at-home due to family distractions, which is understandable. We know teleworking has saved our employer money on utilities, facilities maintenance, etc. Some boomers are going to force their teams back into the office full time anyway and cost us a shitload of talented designers because there's no hard-set rule that a fully successful employee must be allowed to telework if they want to.

If you don't work in the office at least 3 days a week they'll take away your assigned office/cubicle. That's not unreasonable, but the directors are making folks clean out their cubicle/office if they are planning to telework 3 days a week rather than splitting a space across two employees (so they don't have to clear their cube out like they just got fired). Management is making people do this even though we're still on full time telework. There's no plan to identify/label offices which aren't assigned and in the last year we hired more people than we have seats/offices. Even with most folks teleworking, you might be unable to find a seat because there's no schedule to ensure everybody doesn't show up on a wednesday or something.

We're funding a study to figure out how to shrink our footprint so we can go from about 4 or 5 buildings (shared with other groups) down to 2 buildings. It's not clear whether telework factors into that or if they're just going to try to put everybody in an open office instead of the current high-wall cubicle arrangements. It's also not clear if they're going to fund new furniture to allow folks to be semi-productive in their new tiny spaces or just tear out all the cubicles on one floor of our smaller building and replace it with old conference room tables and chairs scavenged from the other buildings.

Also we're federal government so none of these cost-saving decisions matter.



Also holy poo poo manpurse, props for trolling management so effectively. Those golden handcuffs don't sound that bad if you're still able to get management to eat poo poo for enacting bad policies.

manpurse
Mar 19, 2007
It’s okay, I am still going to raise a fuss if they force me back, I had cancer as a kid so they refuse to give me any more life insurance than the bare minimum, claiming I have prior health issues. So I will go the union and HR saying I don’t feel safe going in to the office due to my prior health issues, since we have the right to refuse unsafe work 😎. I want to see what they have to say about that.

fresh_cheese
Jul 2, 2014

MY KPI IS HOW MANY VP NUTS I SUCK IN A FISCAL YEAR AND MY LAST THREE OFFICE CHAIRS COMMITTED SUICIDE

SubnormalityStairs posted:

I honestly don't know what else I can do.

You are good people, giving your peeps the cover you can and enabling their success as best you can.

Ultimately, once the accountants and MBAs are in charge and start optimizing out expense, thats all thats left to a leader who actually cares about their team.

Joke answer: lead them to the competitors office for raises and keg fridays.

Tinestram
Jan 13, 2006

Excalibur? More like "Needle"

Grimey Drawer

Lascivious Sloth posted:

I mean, you should just leave, if you can, or whenever you can.

I know this is the right answer. My successor is already picked out and I know he'd be awesome for the team (as long as HE holds on anyway...), so I'm honestly not sure why I'm still hanging on other than interviews loving suck. Every job I've ever worked in the IT industry has been a result of somebody seeing me being good at my current job and pulling me into my next position. I know that's a positive thing but my scumbag brain takeaway is that I just suck at interviews.

Inertia's a bitch, yo.


fresh_cheese posted:

You are good people, giving your peeps the cover you can and enabling their success as best you can.

Ultimately, once the accountants and MBAs are in charge and start optimizing out expense, thats all thats left to a leader who actually cares about their team.

Joke answer: lead them to the competitors office for raises and keg fridays.

Thanks. I appreciate hearing that.

I've always told my team that loyalty to a company is misplaced and that if any virtue is worth striving for, it's integrity. Of the four guys who have left my team over the past four years, three of them have been for advancement opportunities (one Senior became a CTO!) and one went back to school for an art diploma because that's what he REALLY wanted to be doing. I consider all of these to be successes.

I look forward to poaching the poo poo outta my team when I leave.

AHH F/UGH
May 25, 2002

My boss today mentioned that the Governor is removing COVID restrictions soon so we might be going back to the office at some point.

I immediately sent off applications to like 6 different companies on indeed and already have three interviews scheduled with the express point of working remote permanently. gently caress going back into an office. Two of the interviews are for very similar positions and one is for something kind of similar but a smaller company. Either way I deserve $25 an hour minimum instead of the $20 I get currently for basically propping up our entire derelict department and keeping everyone in a job.

I haven't taken a vacation in two and a half years.

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

AHH F/UGH posted:

I immediately sent off applications to like 6 different companies on indeed and already have three interviews scheduled

God I wish I could get replies as quickly as you do

AHH F/UGH
May 25, 2002

Bless up my brother. Keep reaching for that rainbow.

But to be fair, I'm a little bit advantaged because I work a tech job in the large machinery business which is insanely red hot right now between agriculture/farming quietly being a hugely profitable industry from food prices going up, and infrastructure projects from the government getting doled out nationwide. Check out the stock prices of Caterpillar and John Deere in the past two years.

I just had a phone interview and the guy basically said they can't keep people around because the headhunting and poaching is so insane - the companies a city over just offer their guys an extra $10,000 or $15,000 a year and they jump ship. He even said "I mean, I'm calling a guy from Oregon [where I live] about a job in Kansas, that's how crazy it is". I even told him I'm basically demanding a fully remote position and he basically said they would create the position for me if I would just agree to join them. I don't wanna say he sounded desperate, but almost that they couldn't hire people fast enough.

In retrospect I should probably ask for $30 an hour.

TotalLossBrain
Oct 20, 2010

Hier graben!

AHH F/UGH posted:

In retrospect I should probably ask for $30 an hour.

ask for $40

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

But also let THEM make the first offer.

AHH F/UGH
May 25, 2002

The "Exciting Announcement that you're all going to love" from last week? A training and onboarding site, or something. Some poo poo that no one will ever loving use. I would have preferred the free bananas in the break room over this. (Blue marks are mine, duh)

TITTIEKISSER69
Mar 19, 2005

SAVE THE BEES
PLANT MORE TREES
CLEAN THE SEAS
KISS TITTIESS




Volmarias posted:

But also let THEM make the first offer.

TotalLossBrain
Oct 20, 2010

Hier graben!

AHH F/UGH posted:

The "Exciting Announcement that you're all going to love" from last week? A training and onboarding site, or something. Some poo poo that no one will ever loving use. I would have preferred the free bananas in the break room over this. (Blue marks are mine, duh)


it's even more beautiful and surprising than I imagined

gleebster
Dec 16, 2006

Only a howler
Pillbug
Squirrels?

AHH F/UGH
May 25, 2002

I love the giant red <---- SAFE EMAIL ADDRESS because our company is so full of computer illiterates who will just open any attachment they get that we have to whitelist every specific email address in our company and block everything else. We're had a zillion data breaches because of this (don't tell our parent company plz)

Armauk
Jun 23, 2021


AHH F/UGH posted:

My boss today mentioned that the Governor is removing COVID restrictions soon so we might be going back to the office at some point.

I immediately sent off applications to like 6 different companies on indeed and already have three interviews scheduled with the express point of working remote permanently. gently caress going back into an office.
You're doing exactly what's being mentioned in this story: https://www.wsj.com/articles/remote-work-is-the-new-signing-bonus-11624680029. An interesting coincidence.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Knew a ticket was gonna not be fun when it took four emails over a week and a half including copying the guy’s supervisor to get past “please give me a working phone number to help you, do not send me to the number a customer would call as I am not trying to buy something, no don’t open another ticket.”

AHH F/UGH
May 25, 2002

Armauk posted:

You're doing exactly what's being mentioned in this story: https://www.wsj.com/articles/remote-work-is-the-new-signing-bonus-11624680029. An interesting coincidence.

That's the benefit of being underpaid, overworked and having lovely working conditions (i.e. going into an office when there's literally no point other than Panopticon-style surveillance and making managers feel like big tough boys)

Even if the 'signing bonus' is to work from home permanently, it's still an upgrade. I'm still pulling way more than my fair share at my current workplace and they can't fire me without the whole department falling apart. That article speaks to me on a deep level.

Lascivious Sloth
Apr 26, 2008

by sebmojo

SubnormalityStairs posted:

I know this is the right answer. My successor is already picked out and I know he'd be awesome for the team (as long as HE holds on anyway...), so I'm honestly not sure why I'm still hanging on other than interviews loving suck. Every job I've ever worked in the IT industry has been a result of somebody seeing me being good at my current job and pulling me into my next position. I know that's a positive thing but my scumbag brain takeaway is that I just suck at interviews.

Inertia's a bitch, yo.

Thanks. I appreciate hearing that.

I've always told my team that loyalty to a company is misplaced and that if any virtue is worth striving for, it's integrity. Of the four guys who have left my team over the past four years, three of them have been for advancement opportunities (one Senior became a CTO!) and one went back to school for an art diploma because that's what he REALLY wanted to be doing. I consider all of these to be successes.

I look forward to poaching the poo poo outta my team when I leave.

nah you're fine. Just apply and interview. Don't worry about all the noise. Interviews always suck, the only way to improve is to apply and practice. sounds like you are good at networking, so ask your fellow colleagues if there is anything going, otherwise just apply and the worst case is you don't get it, but you practice interviews. all is good

AHH F/UGH
May 25, 2002

I've found doing these interviews (as I did in the past) that it's WAY easier to interview for a job when you don't actually need it, but when you're just exploring options and dipping your toes a bit. It's when you lose your job or get fired that you really start getting nervous because you are at an inherent disadvantage.

So my advice is interview and land a new job before you even know you're going to lose your current one :eng101:

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012
as much as interviews suck, it's not a bad idea interview somewhere else a couple times a year just to stay in practice. and in case they offer you more than you're making. win-win situation while you're gainfully employed. sadly im too lazy and hate talking to people too much to take this advice myself but it seems like a good idea

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.
The trend of rear end in a top hat bosses pushing hard for return-to-office and getting burned with enough turnover to cause "business disruption" delights me on a deep level.

Since I've moved to a career that will probably never enjoy significant wfh (teaching), my pleasure must be vicarious.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:
Had to ask someone five times for access to their emails over several days before they responded with 'Oh, I used a personal account and my work email is empty'. I need that information and they want me to tell them exactly what I want. I want 'all of the information and every single email you've sent and received from anyone to do with anything work related, because your record keeping sucks and I don't know what files are missing because your file maintenance over the past several years was non existent'.

What should have been an hour of record checking has turned into a multi week treasure hunt and now I need to email our funders to beg them for their copy of our legal agreements. There may be poo poo I'm not aware of so I need to go on a stupid fishing expedition and hope I stumble over something at this point. It's just embarrassing.

Son of Rodney
Feb 22, 2006

ohmygodohmygodohmygod


My head of Department is a guy i get along with well, but who as it often happens, is not a good leader. The accounting and asset management team which I'm part of has therefore stewed in a bunch of grievances over the 15 months I've been there, which ultimately resulted in one of 3 asset managers leaving, and one of 4 accountant leaving. Stuff like the sister company getting 1000 bucks corona bonus while we get 150 for Homeoffice supplies, the workload increasing continuously, feedback not being heeded, anual inflation wage increases just not happening, Public Transport tickets being promised since before I was there, things like that.

Guess who is going to take on the full workload of the leaving asset manager and who the accountant is coupled to? That's right :(

At least I already have a feedback and salary negotiation scheduled for next week, just have to figure out what I'm going to ask for.

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.

Son of Rodney posted:

just have to figure out what I'm going to ask for.

A reference.

Armauk
Jun 23, 2021


AHH F/UGH posted:

That's the benefit of being underpaid, overworked and having lovely working conditions (i.e. going into an office when there's literally no point other than Panopticon-style surveillance and making managers feel like big tough boys)

Even if one were to work from home, aren't there draconian monitoring services these big, tough boys would have no problem spending money on to make their remote workforce isn't "wasting time?"

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

Armauk posted:

Even if one were to work from home, aren't there draconian monitoring services these big, tough boys would have no problem spending money on to make their remote workforce isn't "wasting time?"

Sure, and those also end up in use in physical offices, too (dealt with it indirectly here). It's layers of an issue and wfh is removing one layer entirely. Not a panacea but a help.

If they'd just fund drat wfh setups, at least, in my case. A chair is all I ask. Can't even get one that isn't broken in the office though.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:
It was around 30C in the office yesterday. Today is supposed to be hotter. It is now 'work from home in your basement' week.

Lascivious Sloth
Apr 26, 2008

by sebmojo
I recently left the company I work for and then was reached out to for a different position which I was interested in by them. Then they told me there needs to be an official HR process and I have to interview, but they're already conducting handovers, meetings and asking me to work despite no contract and I won't be paid for this time. Simply because their HR process is so slow, and technically I don't have the position yet, so if anything changes I could have wasted all this time. I also had an opportunity to freelance for a different department of them but was told to turn it down by this new department, as they want me in this role and wanted me "fresh" for when I start. So every week I'm losing a massive consultancy fee as they take their time to officialize my new contract. So pissed off.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
It depends entirely on the workplace. They might be lovely and invasive and keep track of when you're actively using the laptop, or they may not. My workplace (or engineering anyway) works on the system of "as long as you can be reached and can show up for scheduled meetings, and the work gets done, it doesn't really matter when or how you work."

Of course the CEO also announced "everyone gets to return to work in September, with maybe one or two WFH days a week if their management is ok with it!" which is basically the status quo from the before times. There's various management chains scrambling and making noises about how maybe certain teams will work better fully remote etc. but it's not exactly a great sign when the workspaces were already notoriously overcrowded.

Volmarias fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jun 29, 2021

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:

Lascivious Sloth posted:

I recently left the company I work for and then was reached out to for a different position which I was interested in by them. Then they told me there needs to be an official HR process and I have to interview, but they're already conducting handovers, meetings and asking me to work despite no contract and I won't be paid for this time. Simply because their HR process is so slow, and technically I don't have the position yet, so if anything changes I could have wasted all this time. I also had an opportunity to freelance for a different department of them but was told to turn it down by this new department, as they want me in this role and wanted me "fresh" for when I start. So every week I'm losing a massive consultancy fee as they take their time to officialize my new contract. So pissed off.

Sounds like they've inadvertently hired you without a contract and just dug themselves a giant hole.

Is what I would say if you worked in a civilized country. No idea how it works in the states though.

I'd tell them you're not doing any work for them until you have a contract and do the freelance stuff until they get their poo poo together. Unless they pay you contractor rates in the meantime? Helping them out like this is just an incentive to drag their feet while they get free work.

Imagined
Feb 2, 2007
The technology absolutely exists to track absolutely everything you do in the vicinity of a laptop. General activity, screen-capping, browser history, and keylogging are the easy ones, but they could easily packet sniff your home network traffic, actually watch your webcam, record audio, or just have automated eyeball tracking software to see if you're looking at your screen. Basically the only thing restraining them from the most dystopian 1984 poo poo imaginable is either not knowing it's possible or some residual concern about their image (or legality) if they were caught doing that. I remember seeing an interview with Mark Zuckerberg where he brought the reporter over to his desk. I happened to notice his laptop had a physical cover over the webcam, and I thought, there's a guy who knows what's possible.

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goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
I just use a bit of blutack.

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