Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
squirrelzipper
Nov 2, 2011

Rotten Red Rod posted:

Nah, Japan has a thing where you can't leave work before your boss without being thought of as incredibly lazy, even if both you and he are just sitting there scrolling YouTube for 4 hours after the work day ends. And then if he wants to go out for drinks, well, guess you won't see your family until 1 AM and you are falling over drunk! Every single night!

Yeah that was my experience the several stints I did in an office setting in Japan. Luckily as a foreigner I could do whatever the gently caress I wanted although I did go drinking a few times.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao
https://i.imgur.com/WOUM3H9.mp4

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

The Titanic posted:

I bet you have without realizing it.

Not everybody is to the extreme of needing to get a fix any way they can at every event they attend. Not every drug user looks like a strung out meth addict either.

Deskeletonized posted:

As a veteran of rural living and small town life, I can assure you that not only have you met drug users, but that a lot of them are people you'd never in a million years think of as such. Are they the crackhead caricatures you see on TV? Nope. But alcohol, opioid, and meth addiction are real, omnipresent, and loving terrifying in just about every backwater burg across the USA, and functioning addicts are a part of daily life for just about everyone.

It's certainly not impossible.
I could probably also have mentioned that I don't live in the US, which might be a factor.

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Scruffpuff posted:

I've actually gotten traction in my own company by literally sitting our CEO down in front of a game launcher, or even a game, (not SC), and comparing the performance on screen with the performance of his apps. He'd always get complaints from clients about performance, and his go-to was to blame the servers/network etc. So I'd pull this up and tell him something along the lines of "this here is handling over one thousand times the data our apps are. This has thousands of more connections. It's running on the same hardware you're claiming is inadequate." I'd have to pull up our own server metrics and explain "See how the server is using less than 1% CPU, storage, networking, RAM, I/O etc.? THE PROBLEM IS THE loving CODE."

Happy ending, he actually saw the light and came down on the devs, and things have been getting much better.

So how does this answer your question? It doesn't. I have no idea how these devs sleep at night - if they've played even one PC game, even a bad one, they have to know their poo poo is ... well, poo poo. That it isn't up to scratch and it doesn't compare. Hell, it's not even a game, or shaping up to be one. How they trudge on I have no idea, but if I was forced to make a guess I'd say it's the most likely and common reason: when people are faced with something that upsets them deeply, they simply delude themselves about the nature of reality.

I saw a game developer (no, not Derek Smart :D ) on Twitter recently who for some reason had been arguing with Microsoft developers over on Github about text rendering performance in the Windows terminal whenever text was not in single colour. He suggested a far simpler and practical way to handle a particular part of the whole process and one of the Microsoft devs claimed the game developer was "describing something that might be considered an entire doctoral research project in performant terminal emulation as 'extremely simple'".
An Epic Games developer who had been participating in the same thread then wrote most of that thing in a ~50 line shader the same day and posted it online.

While the games industry obviously has a lot of issues they still need to resolve, the necessity of writing well performing code to do more really seems to have made them hold higher standards than much (most?) of the regular enterprise/productivity/home software world.

bbchops
Jul 26, 2001

Ho ho ho! I'll have the same again!
Nap Ghost

Bofast posted:

I saw a game developer (no, not Derek Smart :D ) on Twitter recently who for some reason had been arguing with Microsoft developers over on Github about text rendering performance in the Windows terminal whenever text was not in single colour. He suggested a far simpler and practical way to handle a particular part of the whole process and one of the Microsoft devs claimed the game developer was "describing something that might be considered an entire doctoral research project in performant terminal emulation as 'extremely simple'".
An Epic Games developer who had been participating in the same thread then wrote most of that thing in a ~50 line shader the same day and posted it online.

While the games industry obviously has a lot of issues they still need to resolve, the necessity of writing well performing code to do more really seems to have made them hold higher standards than much (most?) of the regular enterprise/productivity/home software world.

I remember reading an article about how Rare had wowed GDC with their revolution new process on Sea of Thieves, which they called "continuous integration". So, yeah, I'm not sure that's universal.

To be fair, the games industry has until recently been optimising for a very different software lifecycle. You have a deadline, crunch to hit it, do a day one patch, maybe some DLC, then it's dead. Some of my teams have software with copyright dates in the mid-90s. Line of business software just tends to live longer. And to Rare's credit, they have managed to keep changes coming in SoT for years now.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Bofast posted:

While the games industry obviously has a lot of issues they still need to resolve, the necessity of writing well performing code to do more really seems to have made them hold higher standards than much (most?) of the regular enterprise/productivity/home software world.

In my experience its the exact opposite. Games have to be built fast, often change during development, and are targeting "fun" which isn't easy to design a spec around. Everything is moving, and when you ship a game you KNOW there's tons of bugs, but you hope that because this code is only used on this level and so on, that it won't ever actually come up. You fix all the major issues that the QA testers find, and you call it a day. (And patch it after) Lots of code is stuff you know is lovely, but everything is behind schedule, and then once the game is out, you move on to the next game. Tech debt is the name of the game. You get what tests you can but lots of things are hard to test for (and require human QA).

Business software on the other hand, you have the luxury of supporting a single product for years, with a fairly straightforward task and a very academic design spec. You write tons of tests that cover everything and anything that could ever go to production, and all code gets looked at and made to be clean and maintainable. Most services have very straightforward results that can be easily and accurately tested.

Obviously it varies from company to company heavily.

MS has issues because they're just monstrously big and have tons of money without really needing to do a whole lot, and they have tons of different competing divisions, etc.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Zaphod42 posted:

In my experience its the exact opposite. Games have to be built fast, often change during development, and are targeting "fun" which isn't easy to design a spec around.

It may also involve removing stuff you spent a lot of time and money in making. For instance in Horizon Zero Dawn an option to remove the elaborate headgears that were part of outfits was added shortly after release as a lot of players found them annoying when playing and in photo mode.
Others may consider this an insult to their vision of fidelity or try to solve it by making a hundred new types of headgear.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

Zaphod42 posted:

Business software on the other hand, you have the luxury of supporting a single product for years, with a fairly straightforward task and a very academic design spec. You write tons of tests that cover everything and anything that could ever go to production, and all code gets looked at and made to be clean and maintainable. Most services have very straightforward results that can be easily and accurately tested.

As someone working on SAP systems with lots of customer code I just burst out laughing.

And then I started crying.

tuo
Jun 17, 2016

GhostDog posted:

As someone working on SAP systems with lots of customer code I just burst out laughing.


You poor soul. I feel with you

*also starts crying

tesseract
Aug 28, 2004

[...]
.

tesseract fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Feb 10, 2023

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
Luftschloss, yep.

nurmie
Dec 8, 2019
russian's got literally the same "air castle" idiom going on too. maybe chris's been trying to tell us something this whole time :tinfoil:

smellmycheese
Feb 1, 2016

Crob Minion: “It’s taken the equivalent of making an entire AAA game for us just to copy Bespin from Star Wars”

Meanwhile at NVidia :

https://twitter.com/y_nakajima_/status/1408760520224559105

Evrart Claire
Jan 11, 2008

smellmycheese posted:

Crob Minion: “It’s taken the equivalent of making an entire AAA game for us just to copy Bespin from Star Wars”

Meanwhile at NVidia :

https://twitter.com/y_nakajima_/status/1408760520224559105

wait what sort of loving sorcery is this

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

bbchops posted:

I remember reading an article about how Rare had wowed GDC with their revolution new process on Sea of Thieves, which they called "continuous integration". So, yeah, I'm not sure that's universal.

To be fair, the games industry has until recently been optimising for a very different software lifecycle. You have a deadline, crunch to hit it, do a day one patch, maybe some DLC, then it's dead. Some of my teams have software with copyright dates in the mid-90s. Line of business software just tends to live longer. And to Rare's credit, they have managed to keep changes coming in SoT for years now.

I would theorize that proper usage of CI/CD in the context of developing a game could be fairly innovative. I think like you're saying, if you plan a lot of post-launch support, putting in the time to set up CD and making releases easy could be valuable.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Zerilan posted:

wait what sort of loving sorcery is this

Actual procedural generation and AI, quite unlike the 15-puzzle and chair detection failure functions CI¬G have been toying with for the last decade.

Also unlike CI¬G's product ehm… thing… it's actually available for download. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/studio/canvas/

FishMcCool
Apr 9, 2021

lolcats are still funny
Fallen Rib

Zerilan posted:

wait what sort of loving sorcery is this

Most likely a Generative Adversarial Network (GAN). It's a pretty cool application of deep neural networks. In very simplified, you have two networks: the con-man and the art critic:

- the con-man is a network which takes a given input (here the MS-paint style canvas), and transforms it into an output of given properties (size, colour space, etc).
- the art critic is a network trained from an initial big set of images to distinguish good images (natural looking, good textures, proper lighting, etc) from garbage (random noise, grass texture in the sky, image way too dark, etc.).

Given a large dataset of images, you can easily train the art critic. That's basic neural network training: initially, the network is garbage, and will be very wrong very often. But every time it's wrong or not perfectly right, you adjust it a tiny bit so that it's a little less wrong. Do that millions of times and ultimately, it will be pretty good in its assessment.

That's where the con-man comes in. Your con-man is initially producing hot garbage. But you submit that garbage to the art critic, and the con-man gets busted: 0/10, my nephew is a better painter and she's 3. You take that 0/10 note, and since it's very very wrong, you adjust the network a tiny bit so that the mark gets a tiny bit better. Then you repeat that a few million times, and your con-man ends up producing results that fool the art critic. At that point, you get rid of the art critic because you don't need them anymore. And your con-man now transforms your MS-paint effort into a nice looking textured landscape.

That's how you train a network to do impressionist paintings from a photo, or to do deep fake portraits of non-existing people.

It's the kind of stuff you show at conference/conventions booths because it's visual, impressive, it allows you to explain neural nets to people interested in the magic, and the deep fake angle also allows you to raise the rising ethical implications without naming Facebook.

FishMcCool fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jun 26, 2021

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Scruffpuff posted:

If you want ALL the money, you buy a company that did the above, then cut all the staff, cut the quality of the product even further, and then sell the company a few years later once it's no longer worth milking. Move to your next target and repeat. (Game analogy: what Activision is doing to Blizzard)

The inherent irony of the third approach is that if everyone starts following that pattern, there's nothing left worth buying with all that money you made, and you've helped usher in an era of creative and ethical bankruptcy. Welcome to now.

The sickening and heartbreaking truth that is slowly destroying software development, not just video game studios but all aspects of software technology. :smith:

All that adventure capitalist money looks so tasty and it sounds like they really care and want to see your company move forwards. But it's greed, and that greed is so very infectious to the people at the high end of the company... and while they all drive away in a Porsche with money flying out the windows they leave behind a crater of broken developers struggling to find a job at the next place that hasn't yet attained that level of "success" yet.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Bumble He posted:

i do not want to drag this out too much, but could this be a difference between the us an europe?
i am in europe so most info i have from the us is through media and i do read about a pretty serious work culture in the us.
i never know if this is actually true or made up?
if you read between the lines in the media...then there are 2 countries with a pretty hard focus on work which are japan and the us.
i ös this actually true or just bullshit?
because drugs in europe are never mentionned in a work-context, drugs use is like the total oppposite of being productive.

Not sure if it's just an American thing. When you have an addiction, any kind of addiction, you as the owner of that addiction come up with all kinds of myriads of reasons to justify it and call it totally not an addiction in your own head and you are 110% in control.

I'd want to say this is some pretty deeply ingrained human nature, but I haven't looked into how it is handled outside of the US. But this is why people have interventions and what not. Not everybody can say they have an addiction without somebody else telling them they do by force.

However in most cases I'm familiar with, the people involved only seek help after they have some near-death experience that shakes them to the core. Not everybody survives this experience either and never gets to seek help. :(

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

GhostDog posted:

As someone working on SAP systems with lots of customer code I just burst out laughing.

And then I started crying.

Haha....

Uh...

Hmm...

*looks around, also cries*

MostlyRandom
Nov 1, 2019

ugh the filth in that picture is repulsive.
you could grow potatoes in the dirt around the light switch
the muck on the ice machine just makes me barf thinking about putting one of those cubes into a drink

cattes are awesome , dirty humans are not

JugbandDude
Jul 19, 2016

Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun

Shine on you crazy diamond!
I would love to work in that magical business.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

MostlyRandom posted:

ugh the filth in that picture is repulsive.
you could grow potatoes in the dirt around the light switch
the muck on the ice machine just makes me barf thinking about putting one of those cubes into a drink

cattes are awesome , dirty humans are not

My visual filtering literally prevented me from seeing all that stuff except the cats and ice. Now I am a bit grossed out. :barf:

Sarsapariller
Aug 14, 2015

Occasional vampire queen


https://v.redd.it/l4visqqe1i771/DASH_1080.mp4

A Citizen posted:

Hey! Happens all the time with the Super Hornet.

Cycle weapons before attempting to land.

"P" on the keyboard to turn them off, you'll land just fine.

Just remember to turn them back on when you leave.

:downs:

Sectopod
Aug 24, 2017

Crobizzle's physics refactor is definitely in.

JugbandDude
Jul 19, 2016

Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun

Shine on you crazy diamond!
Jolly ol’ Hornet just dancing and hopping on the landing pad

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

This is like when the apes first see the monolith in 2001

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

I think there is unused potential in the pedro-tech they showed in ISC posted:

create npc based of pedro and have him play some of his songs on a guitar in some backalley in area18.

quote:

I agree, musician NPC's are a must - and dancers. I hope we can get an opera singer in there too like in the Gatsby video, but at an opera house planet side. There is an opera house on Mars at Port Renatus according to the lore, Orison seems to me to be the sort of place you might find a theatre or an opera house.

For the future I would like to see paid events for players to attend virtually, a murder mystery weekend in a hotel somewhere in the verse or a Scooby-Doo style investigation aboard a 'haunted' ship.

I think it would be more appropriate to have a 'Pedro' playing the piano.

Dwesa
Jul 19, 2016

Maybe I'll go where I can see stars
Operas and Scooby-doo investigations

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Dwesa posted:

Operas and Scooby-doo investigations

(Unmasks the Phantom)
-Derek Smart! I knew it! Only you would have tried such a dastardly plan to besmirch RSI
-And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids... and that mangy Lando!

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

Sarsapariller posted:

It's not about practicality, it's about toxic masculinity

I know a guy who is the prime demographic for this, my brother in law. He is a paramedic who is nearing the end of his non-desk career just due to age. He's six-two, built like a megachad, works this heroic job, respected by friends and family and so on, and he's the most miserable motherfucker I know. Police/paramilitary culture has so completely poisoned his mind that he spends every waking moment comparing himself to some idealized macho superman- always ready to fight, never shows emotions, rugged and respected but never attached or affectionate. My sister is his second marriage, and it's going poorly. He's got about six different untreated mental illnesses due to the poo poo he's had to see/deal with, and his refusal to seek the slightest bit of help or even acknowledge his problems has only made it worse. Being a paramedic doesn't pay poo poo and his first wife took most of what he had, so he's incredibly insecure about money. Utterly traumatized by capitalism, he easily falls prey to credit and get-rich-quick schemes. He gambled the kid's college fund away at a casino last year after winning a minor lottery prize and blowing it on a new motorcycle. His kids are all growing up with major issues- the oldest is already no-contact with the family and developing a drug habit at 17, the next youngest is probably a few years out. He's uncomfortable to have at any family gathering because you never know when he's just going to bust out, out of nowhere, "The white working man is the most oppressed person in America." But that's okay because he basically never stops working, he'll show up in his chief paramedic's cruiser with full uniform on and radio going and side-hug his kids at the parent's house for ten minutes at holidays, then off he goes back to it. If you ask him about his family, he knows it's in trouble, but he can never quite connect it to his own selfishness- he knows he needs to provide some emotional connection but he doesn't know how, so he tries to express care by being utterly controlling- "No son of mine is ever going to have long hair," nobody's gonna date my daughters, etc etc. The thought of retirement terrifies him. The thought of women terrifies him. Since I transitioned we have not spent more than 2 minutes total in proximity to each other.

His insecurity is exactly what this sort of poo poo is targeting. Baby carriers that won't make you soft. Body washes without all that girly poo poo. To us it looks completely insane, and it is, but it's a kind of insanity that has been absolutely cultivated in a huge proportion of the men in our country. The January 6th riots were a direct result of it. I expect it'll get worse, before it gets better.

I had one if these guys as a brother in law for a while by virtue of dating his sister. He was constantly ribbing on me because I wasn't manly enough to date his sister. Everyone had to measure up to his standard of manliness, he being a drafted cafeteria worker at an army base. He was also intensely proud of the fact that he could fold his shorts really neatly, unlike feminized me.

smellmycheese
Feb 1, 2016

Croberts will be furious to see Derek has made it into a PC Gamer Top 10 list.

Admittedly it’s for “Most boring sims of all time” but a win is a win

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-most-boring-sims-on-pc/

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

smellmycheese posted:

Croberts will be furious to see Derek has made it into a PC Gamer Top 10 list.

Admittedly it’s for “Most boring sims of all time” but a win is a win

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-most-boring-sims-on-pc/


:lmao: there it is, right between The Amazing Live Sea Monkeys and Garbage Truck Simulator and Toilet Tycoon

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
Played a bunch of No Man's Sky recently and this game seems pretty much like Star Citizen if it wanted to be fun or a real game.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
I bet the developers of NMS have a counter in their office that only counts the years siphoned off their player's lives from waiting for a button press to result in an action. And another for all the time spent fixing poo poo on frigates.

L. Ron Hoover
Nov 9, 2009

Excuse me fudster, this ship has built in sick grav hydraulics to impress your friends. It uses the same cutting edge gravlev tech as the Nomad's invisible landing gear and has never been done before. Try to do some research before you make baseless accusations about a game you clearly don't understand.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

Khanstant posted:

Played a bunch of No Man's Sky recently and this game seems pretty much like Star Citizen if it wanted to be fun or a real game.

Yeah of the current space trader games it appeals to me the most, partly for the groovy space opera aesthetic and partly because it's less of an economics simulator than the others (that part's still there but it's mixed in with survival stuff.) The limitations of the tech mean they'll never have, like, cities or huge settlements, but then again SC doesn't really have those either, and this game at least knows that and commits to a wilderness/frontier feel.

Kosumo
Apr 9, 2016

It's funny now after years of Chris being deceptive about his and Sandi's relationship, they are now doing a total 180 and releasing a "proof of wife" video.

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

How odd, it appears this spaceship has roughly the same mass as a matchbox car but that would mean someone lied to me about Star Citizer physics.

How can this be.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Time_pants
Jun 25, 2012

Now sauntering to the ring, please welcome the lackadaisical style of the man who is always doing something...

Kosumo posted:

It's funny now after years of Chris being deceptive about his and Sandi's relationship, they are now doing a total 180 and releasing a "proof of wife" video.

I love and treasure you.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply