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Most drivers that can afford brand new cars, even relatively inexpensive ones, tend to be older. That’s my hot take.
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Jun 26, 2021 23:28
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Goober Peas posted:Is there something in particular about the current generation Civic that is making their drivers stay 5 car lengths behind traffic in Southern California? default adaptive cruise range?
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Jun 26, 2021 23:29
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Math You posted:So the current gen, plain Jane civic is pretty decent then? It's hardly fair to compare a base Civic to a Fiesta ST.
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Jun 27, 2021 00:18
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My wife used to have 2012 Civic; it was seriously the most boring car I’ve ever driven. And I’ve driven plenty of boring cars over the years- Accents, Priuses, Corollas, etc. The 2012 Civic was on another level; it took the art of boredom to strange new places. Honda gave it an emergency refresh after a year, but the 2013 Civics were still pretty bland. The 10th gen (2016+) was a completely new model and worlds better in every regard. I’d take a 2016 stripper over a 2015 EX-L/Touring any day of the week.
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Jun 27, 2021 19:44
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What makes a car horribly boring? I always consider non-enthusiast cars as purely transportation. Comfort, usability, safety, gas mileage, and reliability are the things that matter. Unless by boring, you mean feels unsafe to drive because of how terrible they handle (wranglers).
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Jun 28, 2021 01:58
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MeruFM posted:What makes a car horribly boring? I always consider non-enthusiast cars as purely transportation. Comfort, usability, safety, gas mileage, and reliability are the things that matter. Unless by boring, you mean feels unsafe to drive because of how terrible they handle (wranglers). Consumer Reports consistently reviews cars for their utilitarian value, and absolutely panned the 2012 Civic. It was worse than the car it replaced, had weirdly bad suspension that jostled passengers around, and just felt "un-Honda". Honda compact and midsize cars have pretty much always been the best feeling to drive, which does have utilitarian value. Nobody wants to drive something that feels completely disconnected from the road like a van or a heavy truck. Consumer Reports posted:For years, the Honda Civic ranked among the best small cars you could buy - until the 2012 redesign. It was a big step backwards, losing its premium feel and enjoyable nature. Instead, this Civic has a cheap interior, numb handling, and a bouncy ride. Interior road noise is also pronounced. Overly light and devoid of feedback, vague steering robbed the Civic of its sporty character. The ride is unsettled, even on the highway. Honda rushed back to the drawing board, substantially improving the car for 2013 by improving the ride, handling, and interior finish. So by your criteria, it's uncomfortable, but efficient, reliable, and safe. Still not worth buying used because they've got that Honda premium. The best value by far from that era is a manual Focus. The bad automatics killed values for all of them, but the rest of the car is really pretty great!
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Jun 28, 2021 02:14
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Boring cars have low gotta have it factors. Fact!!! If you want real excitement replace your tie rods with rope.
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Jun 28, 2021 02:58
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MeruFM posted:What makes a car horribly boring? I always consider non-enthusiast cars as purely transportation. Comfort, usability, safety, gas mileage, and reliability are the things that matter. Unless by boring, you mean feels unsafe to drive because of how terrible they handle (wranglers). The last-gen Corolla I had as a rental a few years back was the definition of a boring car. There was nothing about the Corolla that made me want to just go out for a drive, or even look back fondly as I walked away. The steering was lifeless, ride and handling were both poor, and the engine was a gutless wonder that also hated to be revved out. This isn't to say the Corolla was a bad car. It's great at its intended mission, which is to provide economical, reliable transportation.
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Jun 28, 2021 03:10
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Saw my first E in the wild today, not impressed. Doesn’t look any better in pictures, and is basically blobby cuv #394 to me. I’m down with the drivetrain but the body is ugh.
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Jun 28, 2021 03:43
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i think the floaty disconnected feeling in Toyotas is intentional and what their audience largely wants
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Jun 28, 2021 07:33
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Bronco review embargo lifted today. Lots of praise. https://twitter.com/freep/status/1409458914417070083?s=21 https://twitter.com/roadshow/status/1409451558153109505?s=21 https://twitter.com/caranddriver/status/1409498529140252674?s=21 https://twitter.com/therealautoblog/status/1409493581887201280?s=21 https://twitter.com/jalopnik/status/1409466886224371724?s=21
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Jun 28, 2021 14:33
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Does 'compromised' not mean what I think it means? "Here is this new off road vehicle that's poo poo at going off road, you'll love it!" "You dreamed it would be poo poo and it is!" Murgos fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 17:40
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Murgos posted:Does 'compromised' not mean what I think it means? From the end of the review: quote:
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Jun 28, 2021 17:46
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It appears that it's very capable of going off road. The compromised bit I think it's referring to its on-road manners. Basically saying it's the same as a wrangler in the compromise you are making.
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Jun 28, 2021 17:51
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dissss posted:It's hardly fair to compare a base Civic to a Fiesta ST. It was just a plain (as noted, 2011) Fiesta. There wasn't even an ST until 2013 Thanks Twerk for the write-up on the 2012 Civic (which is the only one I've driven). I'm happy to know there's just the one year THAT bad Math You fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 18:06
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bull3964 posted:It appears that it's very capable of going off road. that's not what they're saying, they are saying that any vehicle that excels is the result of making various compromises, and that the Ford team have made good ones in this case. some appear to be similar to the ones made by Jeep with the wrangler and some are not.
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Jun 28, 2021 18:28
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The Bronco appears to be a much better vehicle on road than the Wrangler, while being just as good off road. In that case the Bronco should destroy the Wrangler because Wranglers are notorious for being poo poo everywhere but off road. Once people realize they can get a much more comfortable and safer rock crawler cosplay vehicle for cruising the mall parking lot people will be trading in their Wrangler tarmac queens in droves.
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Jun 28, 2021 18:38
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Applebees Appetizer posted:The Bronco appears to be a much better vehicle on road than the Wrangler, while being just as good off road. Can't get an angry eyes front fascia for the Bronco tho. It's a sheep thing, you wouldn't understand. Lol autocorrect typo but it's staying in.
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Jun 28, 2021 18:40
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Oh I'm pretty sure angry eyes and Punisher replacement grills will be available for the Bronco ASAP The typo is pretty accurate tho 
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Jun 28, 2021 18:47
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Zero One posted:From the end of the review: The way they are using compromised isn't valid. A competent off road vehicle isn't compromised because it doesn't comfortably chew up highway miles like a Grand Touring Car. Using that definition every car everywhere is compromised in that sense and the word has no actual meaning. Are Lamborghini's compromised because you can't take them up el capitan? Compromised in context would be 'yeah it's great at X off road thing but to do that they had to give up on Y off road thing". But that's not the sort of thing they are trying to say at all. Since what the article actually says is that it's better on the road then it's closest off road competitor, jeep wranglers, it is by that measure less compromised, if anything.
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Jun 28, 2021 18:53
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"slaps hood" this baby can climb so many grocery store curbs
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Jun 28, 2021 18:58
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Murgos posted:The way they are using compromised isn't valid. A competent off road vehicle isn't compromised because it doesn't comfortably chew up highway miles like a Grand Touring Car. Using that definition every car everywhere is compromised in that sense and the word has no actual meaning. Are Lamborghini's compromised because you can't take them up el capitan? Yeah, by that measure pretty much all cars are compromised, aka designed differently. One of the things I said I loved about my Miata after I got it was how uncompromising it was, how so much of it is focused only on driving and nothing else. But of course you can look at a Caterham or something and say that the Miata makes compromises all over the place for comfort, safety, electronics, whatever. All consumer vehicles do.
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Jun 28, 2021 19:00
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So I went and test drove the 2022 Civic Touring Sedan with the 1.5T and I thought I'd communicate my thoughts on the short time I spent with the vehicle. -You're definitely gonna get good value out of the mid-tier EX models if you can do without the 1.5T and the bells and whistles. At least in Canada you can't get a 1.5T until you go Touring. I imagine the hatch will allow for a 1.5T on lower trims like the outgoing 2019 models. -Ride is firm, but smooth, definitely has that "buttoned down" feel compared to competitors in its class but otherwise feels somewhat unremarkable. I would say it's a standard cross section of what people can expect from new upscaled "premium economy" cars purchased by an aging demographic that can't handle the harsher civics of the 1990s. My takeaway is that the steering isn't very communicative and at times a felt uncertain where the corners of the car were or how it moved relative to the space around me. -You have a LOT of room. I'm 6'4" and the seat can let you ride low so your head doesn't touch the ceiling. Unfortunately it also means you have more of the dash, doorcards and other stuff in your field of view compared to older vehicles with more visibility. -Infotainment, Climate Control etc is all very easy to use and looks really nice.. I appreciate that there's physical controls for everything. Volume control on the steering wheel is now a spring loaded toggle switch that resets back to its original position when you flick it... No more awkward touch sensor. -Premium feeling knurled metallic knob for control of volume is on the large sized touch screen. Menus are easy to navigate, it's pretty responsive. Larger knobs with old school white LED numbers in the center for climate control. Shows temperatures, very easy to use. Car cools down quickly. -Interior is very solid, nothing feels fragile, flimsy or out of place. Really like the ridged plastic material they used for the window controls and centre console. Leather seats feel good. Everything looks simple and easy to use with physical buttons and switches for stuff you wouldn't want to dig through menus to control. -Digital dashboard display is one of the best I've used and gives premium brands a run for their money. Only gimmick is it shows a video gamey digital 3rd person view of your car in the center with lines drawn to demonstrate lane keep assist. It also visibly shows brake lights when you hit the brake, and even displays turn signals or reverse lights showing you what the car is doing from the back when you're driving. -The Bose Sound system isn't worth the money and I could probably do without it if the package permitted it. -The rear view camera kinda sucks and gives a really distorted view of the back compared to others I've seen. You're going to be relying on the bumper radar sensors to learn your corners and spacing until you get used to the car. -The blind spot camera on the passenger side mirror is gone and you have a traditional illuminated blind spot monitor in the mirrors now. - Performance wise the 1.5T doesn't have as much torque as I'd like and is adequate. Overall I'd say the new Civic takes the best of the Honda Accord and puts it in a size that is more acceptable to me and other people looking for a smaller car. At this point I'd say it's probably as big as an older generation Accord anyway so I'd say its a great car for commuters who don't care about performance. They'll sell shitloads of them and I expect it to be a staple for Uber drivers and general commuters who want something a more exciting, luxurious and understated than a Prius. I didn't like the styling of the outgoing civic so this new one is right up my alley and makes me feel like I'm driving an Audi A4 or Jetta but without the reliability problems. The Type R and Si versions will be very interesting to see. Also, holy poo poo the amount of features you can get in a HONDA CIVIC at 30k CAD is incredible to me. You used to have to fork out at least 50k for poo poo like LKAS, Blind Spot Monitoring and proximity sensors. We've come a long way from the old days of optional A/C and green calculator screen radios. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 20:01
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Once people realize they can get a much more comfortable and safer rock crawler cosplay vehicle for cruising the mall parking lot people will be trading in their Wrangler tarmac queens in droves. This is why they will sell a ton of these. Now people can be comfortable while playing pretend off road champion. I personally know 2 people with Wranglers who are desperately awaiting their Bronco builds to become available.
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Jun 28, 2021 22:29
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Kraftwerk posted:-The rear view camera kinda sucks and gives a really distorted view of the back compared to others I've seen. You're going to be relying on the bumper radar sensors to learn your corners and spacing until you get used to the car. Of course they get rid of the loving mirror cameras, the most important actually valuable non gimmick feature in a while. Honda has been using that distorted rear view camera lens module and viewing software for like 10 years now, really squeezing all the R&D dollars out of it instead of putting something in that could be as good as a modern laptop webcam. Inner Light fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 22:44
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I thought the mirror cameras were supposed to be a cheaper alternative to a proper BSM system. Now the car has one of those there doesn't seem to be much point.
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Jun 28, 2021 23:07
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dissss posted:I thought the mirror cameras were supposed to be a cheaper alternative to a proper BSM system. Now the car has one of those there doesn't seem to be much point. No.... if the cameras are good enough there is no need for a BSM. The camera could cover a larger angle than a traditional mirror, and eliminate blind spots. To my knowledge it was never intended as a 'cheaper alternative' for BSM.
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Jun 28, 2021 23:12
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I wonder if Honda fixed the oil dilution problem in the 1.5t
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Jun 28, 2021 23:16
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Bronco is going to be by far the hottest lifestyle vehicle for the foreseeable future, especially when Ford releases the warthog and other special trims. wrap it up wranglosers and tacomailures you're done
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Jun 29, 2021 00:07
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Wheeee posted:Bronco is going to be by far the hottest lifestyle vehicle for the foreseeable future, especially when Ford releases the warthog and other special trims. wrap it up wranglosers and tacomailures you're done I'll give you Wranglers, but I think that Tacoma people are far outside the Bronco's influence. The Tacoma is already a laughably inefficient expensive vehicle, they already don't buy Fords why would they start now?
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Jun 29, 2021 00:14
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I wonder which is going to sell more, the Bronco, Lightning, or Maverick.
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Jun 29, 2021 00:20
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KakerMix posted:I'll give you Wranglers, but I think that Tacoma people are far outside the Bronco's influence. The Tacoma is already a laughably inefficient expensive vehicle, they already don't buy Fords why would they start now? Looking forward to seeing what they do with the 4Runner in 2023. They have to update it right?
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Jun 29, 2021 00:22
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Wheeee posted:Bronco is going to be by far the hottest lifestyle vehicle for the foreseeable future, especially when Ford releases the warthog and other special trims. wrap it up wranglosers and tacomailures you're done Failrunners was right there
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Jun 29, 2021 00:35
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meanwhile: rooftop tent on miata
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Jun 29, 2021 01:08
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Powershift posted:I wonder which is going to sell more, the Bronco, Lightning, or Maverick. Maverick because of the price. They are gonna be everywhere.
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Jun 29, 2021 02:56
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smooth jazz posted:I wonder if Honda fixed the oil dilution problem in the 1.5t It wasn’t that common so I suspect the answer is both yes and no.
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Jun 29, 2021 03:03
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Maverick because of the price. They are gonna be everywhere. I suspect the market for a small cheap useful truck is not that large, I’ll go lightning because it is super compelling in a package that Americans love. Bronc is good but I think it’ll mostly be stolen market share rather than growing the off-road suv market.
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Jun 29, 2021 03:04
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Inner Light posted:
It absolutely was which is why it got progressively removed from each refreshed model as radar based BSM became more affordable.
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Jun 29, 2021 03:38
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I dunno, it seems like the small truck market could make a comeback to me, timing is right and with hybrid and possible EV variants they could get popular again. I remember in the 80s when they blew up they were everywhere, seemed like everyone had a drat S-10 or Ranger
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Jun 29, 2021 03:43
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Powershift posted:I wonder which is going to sell more, the Bronco, Lightning, or Maverick.
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Jun 29, 2021 03:46
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