|
https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1409190814610165760?s=20 Because I was curious, the first officially ordained minister in the United States was Olympia Brown for the Universalist Church in 1863, but there's been countless unofficial preachers and what not throughout the ages. Like, Joan or Arc has to count, right? Also, did their mom never see them do something stupid from more than 20 feet away? Women can be loud when they want to.
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 17:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 00:06 |
|
|
I once attended a chamber music performance with a classically trained opera singer. She was extremely loud. She was a petite young woman, but I have never experienced another person being even closely as loud
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 18:12
|
|
|
Jools Holland has a wonderful story about how when he was on the tube music show a tiny shy quiet Scottish woman was backstage and he didn’t think much of her and then the Eurythmics took the stage and Annie Lennox’s voice just filled the room https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQigavTPnxY
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 18:20
|
|
|
Such Fun posted:I once attended a chamber music performance with a classically trained opera singer. Yeah, there's been female singers and performers in front of huge crowds in huge rooms for hundreds of years before the invention of the microphone. Like, everyone knows it was illegal for women to be in plays during the Elizabethan era, but they were allowed to do it starting in 1660.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 18:24
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:That’s….that’s literally why it is called that. It started with a formal written protest yeah, heresy
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 18:27
|
|
|
Zetsubou-san posted:yeah, heresy "Evangelisch", which is still the preferred term in some parts of Europe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 18:39
|
|
|
Clone Farmer posted:I mean, in the myths, Loki seduced a horse and had it's baby, but sure, being bisexual in the Loki show is ruining comics/Loki. My favourite part of the whole story is that the God's had hosed up by agreeing to let some random builder marry Freyja if we can build a wall. They blame Loki for this so when he's getting close to done Loki goes off to seduce the horse that's been doing all the heavy lifting because he's also the god of terrible loving ideas or something. So whilst he's off banging a horse Thor just comes down and smashes the builder's skull in with his hammer. The was no reason for Loki to gently caress the horse at all, They could have killed him any time they liked.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 18:53
|
|
|
Loki tied his balls to a goat to make a giantess laugh because the gods killed her father, he is basically god of bantz.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 18:54
|
|
|
Aramoro posted:My favourite part of the whole story is that the God's had hosed up by agreeing to let some random builder marry Freyja if we can build a wall. They blame Loki for this so when he's getting close to done Loki goes off to seduce the horse that's been doing all the heavy lifting because he's also the god of terrible loving ideas or something. So whilst he's off banging a horse Thor just comes down and smashes the builder's skull in with his hammer. The was no reason for Loki to gently caress the horse at all, They could have killed him any time they liked. I think it's important to remember that the Norse Gods were only ever written about after the communities they were tied to had been christianised for over 3 generations. A lot of the stories are going to be less respectful than the original myths may have been. The only example of this I fully don't understand is the various different Ancient Greek deities who are just utter poo poo all the time forever.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 18:57
|
|
|
"not so much worshipped, as blamed" springs to mind.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 18:59
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:I think it's important to remember that the Norse Gods were only ever written about after the communities they were tied to had been christianised for over 3 generations. A lot of the stories are going to be less respectful than the original myths may have been. Ehh, I think a lot of ancient paganism was revering gods not because they were worthy of it, but because if you didn't you got hosed with.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:00
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:Ehh, I think a lot of ancient paganism was revering gods not because they were worthy of it, but because if you didn't you got hosed with. I mean we say this but we also can't see the various different things involved in the worship and all the rest of the interesting things going on. It's why I'm so sad we can't see how different societies approached the Gods. All we have to rely on is either people going "ignorant savages" or takes that have been gone over by monks for a few hundred years.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:03
|
|
|
Aramoro posted:The was no reason for Loki to gently caress the horse at all, They could have killed him any time they liked. But a consistent internal logic is not the point of mythology. I bet you could come up with a solid battle plan for how the aesir could triumph in ragnarok, but that’s not the point. The gods have to die; Loki has to get impregnated by a horse. I didn’t make the rules, there clearly aren’t any
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:03
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:The only example of this I fully don't understand is the various different Ancient Greek deities who are just utter poo poo all the time forever. With Greek gods you need to remember not to conflate god with benevolent which is really easy to do if you grew up in an Abrahamic country. They are gods, but their purposes are not the purposes of man but rather incidental. Praying to them might do good things or maybe theyll gently caress your life forever who knows.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:05
|
|
|
That's why I only make deals with Faeries. The fay folk are always trustworthy!
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:06
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1409190814610165760?s=20 Fun fact: in the great awakening periods of the 19th century US, it was common to hold these big outdoor revivals with lots of people listening to a preacher. It's hard to be loud outside, where open air and wind affects the sound transmission much more than in an indoor setting. Some preachers would constrict their throat to an almost falsetto in order to get some extra volume. Same idea as how a whistle works, blasting out the same volume of air at high pressure through a smaller opening. Imagine you're a 19th century frontier farmer going to a church meeting after a long day of hard labor, and you stand for an hour listening to preaching of hellfire and brimstone in a voice that sounds like a screaming Mickey Mouse. Explains why per-capita alcohol consumption was much higher then
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:06
|
|
|
The idea of gods being perfect beings who deserve nothing but respect is a very Abrahamic one Even then it's mostly Christians and Muslims. Jews know better than to think anybody's perfect
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:06
|
|
|
canyoneer posted:Imagine you're a 19th century frontier farmer going to a church meeting after a long day of hard labor, and you stand for an hour listening to preaching of hellfire and brimstone in a voice that sounds like a screaming Mickey Mouse. Explains why per-capita alcohol consumption was much higher then This is just right wing youtube.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:07
|
|
|
Drop the “your kid was wrong on the internet” slapfight. There’s nothing worse than seeing 70+ new posts in this thread because it almost always means people starting swinging at each other. Does anyone have any classic “ate the Onion” posts where people can’t recognize satire sites? I’ve been jonesing for those.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:07
|
|
|
I mean, Loki tried to distract the builder in a bunch of different ways, it’s just that none of them slowed him down even a little, forcing him to pull out the big guns (the big guns being horsefuckin). Thor also only killed that dude after he had finished the wall, but taken longer than three days to do so. Sure he could have done it sooner, but then someone else would have to finish the job, and it’d be bad PR to kill a guy without the excuse of him having failed to fulfill his contract (even if the horsefuckin was the only reason he failed).
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:09
|
|
|
flavor.flv posted:The idea of gods being perfect beings who deserve nothing but respect is a very Abrahamic one Oh yeah, my favorite part of the Torah, "And then God said to Abraham, 'Pobodies Nerfect'"
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:09
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:
From what I’ve learned about it, the Ancient Greek believed that the mortal realm was a reflection of what was happening in the realm of the divine. Realistically that means that they believed that how they lived was the same as how their gods lived. So their gods were cruel, vindictive, lustful, covetous, capricious. Just like they saw themselves
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:10
|
|
|
Aramoro posted:With Greek gods you need to remember not to conflate god with benevolent which is really easy to do if you grew up in an Abrahamic country. They are gods, but their purposes are not the purposes of man but rather incidental. Praying to them might do good things or maybe theyll gently caress your life forever who knows. But don’t forget, *not* praying to them if they are expecting you to will absolutely have them gently caress you over, unless a different god you also worship takes pity on you and turns you into a swan or something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:10
|
|
|
   And my personal favourite: 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:13
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:There’s nothing worse than seeing 70+ new posts in this thread Some people have war in their country
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:15
|
|
|
It's also worth mentioning that the ancient Greeks rarely worshipped all of the gods. Most were part of cults that mostly devoted themselves to one particular patron god or goddess that had significance to them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:16
|
|
|
Such Fun posted:From what I’ve learned about it, the Ancient Greek believed that the mortal realm was a reflection of what was happening in the realm of the divine. That's very much my understanding of how Greek religious thinking worked, and I did a MS in classics. The Greeks did not expect their gods to be morally superior, they were just stronger, bigger, blunter people. So don't get their attention, don't piss them off, and you might be ok.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:17
|
|
|
flavor.flv posted:The idea of gods being perfect beings who deserve nothing but respect is a very Abrahamic one Also the idea that gods exists to serve man, the Abrahamic god exists purely to serve man, The Greek gods have their own poo poo going on and man is just nearby. It's probably why Abrahamic religions became so popular.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:18
|
|
|
There are a lot of complete story arcs and sagas, almost like seasons of a TV show and spin off series with Greek myths through time aren’t there?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:22
|
|
|
Talking about unified mythologies is kinda useless anyway. We kludge them into a single pop culture narrative called "greek mythology" or "norse mythology" or whatever but these are beliefs that span a vast gulf of space and time and were never unified. Athens and Sparta in the classical period had different beliefs, forget comparing the gods of Homer to the gods of the Seleukid Empire. And like, for example, not only is Jupiter not just "the roman name for Zeus", he's not even one single god. The worst offender is "egyptian mythology" though. You're talking about a worldview spanning from like 3000+ BCE to the rise of Islam. The first egyptologists were Middle Kingdom egyptians investigating Old Kingdom sites. There is not even close to such a thing as a concise egyptian mythology where you have DnD style god of this and god of that and this god is the main god and so on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:29
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:Ehh, I think a lot of ancient paganism was revering gods not because they were worthy of it, but because if you didn't you got hosed with. So the ancient pagans were centrist Democrats, and their gods were Selec?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:34
|
|
|
Aramoro posted:the Abrahamic god exists purely to serve man This is not correct at all. I’m puzzled at how you might have gotten to this conclusion, curious even.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
Agents are GO! posted:So the ancient pagans were centrist Democrats, and their gods were Selec? Probably? I don't know who or what Selec is and google isn't helping.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Talking about unified mythologies is kinda useless anyway. We kludge them into a single pop culture narrative called "greek mythology" or "norse mythology" or whatever but these are beliefs that span a vast gulf of space and time and were never unified. Athens and Sparta in the classical period had different beliefs, forget comparing the gods of Homer to the gods of the Seleukid Empire. And like, for example, not only is Jupiter not just "the roman name for Zeus", he's not even one single god.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:43
|
|
|
Such Fun posted:This is not correct at all. I’m puzzled at how you might have gotten to this conclusion, curious even. As a huge generalization you could say that in Abrahamic religions creation is a reflection or emanation of God. And as such God has an intimate relation and interest in creation. Creation is God, God is creation. Whereas the gods of Classical Greek mythology saw creation as something that was just there. Sometimes they liked to interfere, sometimes not. But they were not creation themselves.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:45
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Talking about unified mythologies is kinda useless anyway. We kludge them into a single pop culture narrative called "greek mythology" or "norse mythology" or whatever but these are beliefs that span a vast gulf of space and time and were never unified. Athens and Sparta in the classical period had different beliefs, forget comparing the gods of Homer to the gods of the Seleukid Empire. And like, for example, not only is Jupiter not just "the roman name for Zeus", he's not even one single god. You mean Bullfinch's Mythology isn't a 100% accurate account of past beliefs?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 19:49
|
|
|
learnincurve posted:There are a lot of complete story arcs and sagas, almost like seasons of a TV show and spin off series with Greek myths through time aren’t there? I'd compare it to superhero comics, where characters and scenarios keep getting changed and reinterpreted. Like, Superman isn't so much a single character as he is a cluster of attributes and plot beats: alien sent to Earth in a rocket ship as a baby to escape his dying planet, maintains the secret identity of mild-mannered journalist Clark Kent, loves Lois Lane, fights Lex Luthor, is real strong, can fly, is a very good boy, etc. Different writers emphasize different attributes of Superman, or even subvert them - "What if Superman was evil?" "What if we shipped him with Wonder Woman?" and so on. Even some of Supe's "canon" attributes aren't found in the earliest stories about him - for example, he couldn't fly until the 1950s TV show established it. Before that he was only "able to leap tall buildings in a single bound."
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 20:10
|
|
|
We do have a single, unified source for all our modern understanding of Norse mythology in the form of the Eddas, unfortunately they are a thousand miles and several centuries removed from their origins
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 20:10
|
|
|
flavor.flv posted:
That’s the good stuff right there, thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 20:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 00:06 |
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:Drop the “your kid was wrong on the internet” slapfight. There’s nothing worse than seeing 70+ new posts in this thread because it almost always means people starting swinging at each other. Luckily about 40 of those were about horse loving though. Not something I though I'd ever write, let alone be happy about. YerDa Zabam has a new favorite as of 20:37 on Jun 27, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 20:30
|
|
