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Clawtopsy posted:...what do you anticipate was going to happen after she surrendered? do you think she was going to be a free woman? It's late AM Dimitri talking to the woman he cares about more than anyone else in the world (except maybe a lady Byleth), so she'd probably at most be put under house arrest. Given how Dimitri treats the Alliance, he might very well agree to a white peace if Edelgard were to stand down.
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Jun 28, 2021 19:36
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as duscur has shown, white peace is the only peace faerghus believes in
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Jun 28, 2021 19:39
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Cythereal posted:It's late AM Dimitri talking to the woman he cares about more than anyone else in the world (except maybe a lady Byleth), so she'd probably at most be put under house arrest. Given how Dimitri treats the Alliance, he might very well agree to a white peace if Edelgard were to stand down. Edelgard’s stance on letting herself be imprisoned is pretty clear, and it’s “you’ll have to kill me first”. House arrest is likely not much better, given how her prior imprisonment was…in her own house/palace basement. She’s probably had more than enough time being imprisoned in that building to last her several lifetimes. You also have the fact that Faerghus embodies almost everything Edelgard hates about current Fodlan, so any sales-pitch regarding her giving up on AM is going to take a lot more effort than otherwise. Certainly it would require better arguments than those Dimitri gives during their meeting. Like, Edelgard could probably see some good coming out of a VW Claude-lead ending (even if she thinks he doesn’t know what he’s doing- and his ignorance regarding the true nature of Fodlan makes that true, until Rhea and post-mortem Hubert fill him in), but for someone with her political views, the future of a Faerghus-dominated continent would seem pretty dark. As for a white peace, nothing in the parley indicates that. IIRC he calls her out to work out her motives; he never offers terms or anything, it’s just “explain why you did this so I can have closure”. Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 19:48
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Cythereal posted:It's late AM Dimitri talking to the woman he cares about more than anyone else in the world (except maybe a lady Byleth), so she'd probably at most be put under house arrest. Given how Dimitri treats the Alliance, he might very well agree to a white peace if Edelgard were to stand down. ...Do you really think Rhea, the Church, all of Faerghus would be like "that seems like a good outcome, let's just call it a draw and all go home"? or accept a house arrest? like, i know i got Edelgard Shaped Brain Worms, but drat that is some reading Dimitri/Azure Moon in the noblest possible way. Clawtopsy fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 19:50
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Clawtopsy posted:...Do you really think Rhea, the Church, all of Faerghus would be like "that seems like a good outcome, let's just call it a draw and all go home"? or accept a house arrest? like, i know i got Edelgard Shaped Brain Worms, but drat that is some reading Dimitri in the noblest possible way Rhea at this point is still locked up in Edelgard's basement and the Church is Seteth (who is far more reasonable than Rhea) and Byleth (who's even more level-headed). And yes, actually, white peace under these kinds of circumstances did happen historically. There would likely be some concessions, such as territory, in the final peace treaty, but it wouldn't be too unusual for a faux-medieval period. Shinji117 posted:Edelgard’s stance on letting herself be imprisoned is pretty clear, and it’s “you’ll have to kill me first”. House arrest is likely not much better, given how her prior imprisonment was…in her own house/palace basement. That's because she never talks to Dimitri and finds out what he wants. Dimitri's no fan of the Crest system, and many AM epilogues talk about the Crest system being abolished (Sylvain is your man for this, and the other ranking nobles of Faerghus at that point range from indifferent to hostile to the Crest system themselves). Rhea is replaced by Byleth as Archbishop, and I think it's fair to assume that the Church under Byleth's rule is infinitely more chill and liberal than it was under Rhea's regime. Edelgard holds that peaceful reform of the system is impossible and only violent action can effect change. In AM's story, that assumption is wrong.
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Jun 28, 2021 19:54
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Clawtopsy posted:...Do you really think Rhea, the Church, all of Faerghus would be like "that seems like a good outcome, let's just call it a draw and all go home"? or accept a house arrest? like, i know i got Edelgard Shaped Brain Worms, but drat that is some reading Dimitri/Azure Moon in the noblest possible way. I mean, does Rhea’s opinion matter one iota in AM?
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Jun 28, 2021 19:54
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Cythereal posted:
Sylvain makes progress in his own territory,with no mention of any systematic crest reform pushed on a national or continental level. Also, I’m fairly confident only (some of) Sylvain’s endings talk about any Crest reform, not “many AM epilogues”. And sure Byleth might be more chill now, but the problem with immortal rulers is that there’s no guarantee that Byleth won’t have turned into Rhea Mk2 in 1000 years. Dimitri only gets the authority to pass what limited changes AM brings about because of he wins the war. If you want to look at how peaceful reform happens in Fodlan, look to the fates of Ionius (soft-coup’d) and Lambert (outright assassinated), not any of the post-war routes where the victor has all the authority and power to reshape Fodlan as they wish. Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 20:00
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Shinji117 posted:Sylvain makes progress in his own personal territory, and there’s no mention at all that there’s any systematic crest reform pushed on a national or continental level. And sure Byleth might be more chill now, but the problem with immortal rulers is that there’s no guarantee that Immortal Byleth won’t have turned into Rhea Mk2 in 1000 years. AM's ending specifically notes that Dimitri gives everyone a voice in government, and Dimitri explicitly tells Byleth in part one that he despises the Crest system - but he doesn't want to do away with it, because the Crests and Relics have been so genuinely useful. Also, a great many of Byleth's non-CF endings mention that she chooses to retire and fade away. I think Byleth is very conscious of the possibility of becoming Rhea Mk2 and actively works to avoid it. quote:Dimitri only gets the authority to pass what limited changes AM brings about because of he wins the war. If you want to look at how peaceful reform happens in Fodlan, look to the fates of Ionius and Lambert, not any of the post-war routes where the victor has all the authority and power to reshape Fodlan as they wish. So what? Dimitri makes those reforms all the same, and the reservations he notes in part one are due to how fragile Faerghus is. Removed of those constraints, and with a sympathetic Church (Byleth and Seteth), he's free to enact his dreams.
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Jun 28, 2021 20:03
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Yeah, there are no routes in 3 Houses where change is effected peacefully because all of them have the main characters taking up arms and winning by killing a good chunk of the people who disagree with them. For AM to be a route about how peaceful change can work, Dimitri would have had to surrender and the game would have been about him having heated conversations with Edelgard to change her mind. Not uh literally killing her and absorbing 2 other countries into Fearghus. Also considering how Claude literally fucks off forever if he wins the war and just dumps Fodlan on a golem with arrested development Edelgard seems pretty prescient not to trust him with Fodlan's future  He's got his real country to rule after all.
Zore fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 20:04
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Cythereal posted:Edelgard holds that peaceful reform of the system is impossible and only violent action can effect change. In AM's story, that assumption is wrong. The reform is only possible because the Church is broken, first. Edelgard is absolutely right about that. Cythereal posted:Rhea at this point is still locked up in Edelgard's basement and the Church is Seteth (who is far more reasonable than Rhea) and Byleth (who's even more level-headed). And yes, actually, white peace under these kinds of circumstances did happen historically. There would likely be some concessions, such as territory, in the final peace treaty, but it wouldn't be too unusual for a faux-medieval period. If I am getting this right, you think that the conditions of the white peace would that Edelgard gets to keep Rhea...? Cythereal posted:That's because she never talks to Dimitri and finds out what he wants. Dimitri's no fan of the Crest system, and many AM epilogues talk about the Crest system being abolished (Sylvain is your man for this, and the other ranking nobles of Faerghus at that point range from indifferent to hostile to the Crest system themselves). Rhea is replaced by Byleth as Archbishop, and I think it's fair to assume that the Church under Byleth's rule is infinitely more chill and liberal than it was under Rhea's regime. Dimitri, on multiple occasions, talks about how well, Crests are kinda bad but also the system is what we got. He quietly expresses some dislike for some aspects of it. He's the ultimate centerist on the system in that he acknowledges that system bad sometimes, but only because of bad apples and you need to work with the system (a system that has survived for a millennia, doing things like: stopping medical science because it lessens the divine authority of the church, banning the printing press and telescopes) in order to change it. seeing 'the good' in a system that codifies caste systems aint it Clawtopsy fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 20:08
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Clawtopsy posted:The reform is only possible because the Church is broken, first. Edelgard is absolutely right about that. Under the circumstances Edelgard forces, yes. All else is just speculation. It's easy for her to say that the way things happened is the only way things could have happened. I believe that Edelgard believes she's doing the right thing. I understand why she believes it. And I think her ends do not justify her means. quote:If I am getting this right, you think that the conditions of the white peace would that Edelgard gets to keep Rhea...? I think a prisoner of war has no say in the conditions of the peace, and Rhea in AM is in any event so wounded she immediately goes into exile and is never relevant to Fodlan again. quote:Dimitri, on multiple occasions, talks about how well, Crests are kinda bad but also the system is what we got. He quietly expresses some dislike for some aspects of it. He's the ultimate centerist on the system in that he acknowledges that system bad sometimes, but only because of bad apples and you need to work with the system (a system that has survived for a millennia, doing things like: stopping medical science because it lessens the divine authority of the church, banning the printing press and telescopes) in order to change it Dimitri specifically makes the point that Crests and Relics are useful because Faerghus is perpetually being attacked from the north and needs the power of Crests and Relics to survive. Sylvain and Ingrid further support this point by explaining that Faerghus is very poor and has little in the way of resources. It's an impoverished, resource-poor country on a constantly hostile border that needs what military power it has, and its support from the Church, to survive. Remove that need, and you remove the social pressures keeping the Crest system locked in place.
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Jun 28, 2021 20:13
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I don't see the point because, at the end of the day, Edelgard won as soon as Rhea is out of the picture. We're just deciding who lives at the end of the war.
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Jun 28, 2021 20:16
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Cythereal posted:AM's ending specifically notes that Dimitri gives everyone a voice in government, and Dimitri explicitly tells Byleth in part one that he despises the Crest system - but he doesn't want to do away with it, because the Crests and Relics have been so genuinely useful. Dimitri giving everyone a voice could be anything for major political reform to a suggestion box nailed outside the palace, and given how (at-best) Centrist-y he is I’m not especially convinced by any attempts to portray him as a great reformer. As for “Dimitri despises the Crest system”, I’m fairly sure that’s much stronger than he actually feels, as I remember him bothsides-ing the issue any saying each sides should come to respect each other more as if there were not major power imbalances. Crests and Relics are also only really useful for violence, so if you’re aiming for peace or diplomacy you probably shouldn’t value them so much (see Sylvain’s endings) but Dimitri holds that Crests and Relics are required for peace. Also, without the reveal of the origins of Crests and Relics, AM still has them as the embodiment of Divine Right. - Just for one, without the war and the Cornelia coup making it clear where the allegiance of the various Kingdom nobility falls, there’s nothing stopping them from just doing a Duscur Mk2 on Dimitri is they disapprove of his reforms (and any worthwhile reform would have them disapprove of it because they are feudal nobility who stoop to genocide and so should be removed from power and put on trial). And a sympathetic Church only comes about due to the war also- pre war CoS is pretty terrible if you’re a fan of things like literacy or medicine. All of the reforms carried out in any epilogue show that the war was necessary to improve things in Fodlan, no matter how marginally that happens in certain routes. Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 20:17
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Cythereal posted:Under the circumstances Edelgard forces, yes. All else is just speculation. It's easy for her to say that the way things happened is the only way things could have happened. Except we have the system remaining stagnant for 1,000 years proving that it won't change on it's own. Dimitri is probably not the first ruler to think as he does, and they did just as much as he will do. Nothing. quote:Dimitri specifically makes the point that Crests and Relics are useful because Faerghus is perpetually being attacked from the north and needs the power of Crests and Relics to survive. Sylvain and Ingrid further support this point by explaining that Faerghus is very poor and has little in the way of resources. It's an impoverished, resource-poor country on a constantly hostile border that needs what military power it has, and its support from the Church, to survive. Yes it would have been great if Rhea hadn't forbid technological progress in Fodlan to be able to keep up with the outside world.
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Jun 28, 2021 20:18
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Tired Moritz posted:I don't see the point because, at the end of the day, Edelgard won as soon as Rhea is out of the picture. We're just deciding who lives at the end of the war. I mean, this isn’t accurate. Things get better even on the conservative AM and SS routes, but her goals were greater than “diminish the power of Rhea”; she wants feudalism gone for a start, and that only happens in CF because AM and VW are both monarch-driven, while SS transitions into something like theocratic feudalism. I wouldn’t call AM a win for Edelgard, with stuff like Dimitri’s dynasty ruling Fodlan for generations. Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 20:20
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At the end of the day, progress happens in Fodlan on all four routes that would never have happened if Edelgard hadn't started a war.
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Jun 28, 2021 20:23
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Eimi posted:Except we have the system remaining stagnant for 1,000 years proving that it won't change on it's own. Dimitri is probably not the first ruler to think as he does, and they did just as much as he will do. Nothing. Byleth changes that. Rhea is not a blind fanatic like Edelgard, and it is possible for Byleth to convince her to have a change of heart. Rhea's rule was probably doomed the moment she created Byleth. Remember that it is possible for Rhea to have a change of heart and devote her life to undoing the damage she did. Shinji117 posted:Dimitri giving everyone a voice could be anything for major political reform to a suggestion box nailed outside the palace. As for “Dimitri despises the Crest system”, I’m fairly sure that’s much stronger than he actually feels, as I remember him bothsides-ing the issue any saying each sides should come to respect each other more as if there were not major power imbalances. Crests and Relics are also only really useful for violence, so if you’re aiming for peace or diplomacy you probably shouldn’t value them so much (see Sylvain’s endings) but Dimitri holds that Crests and Relics are required for peace. Also, without the reveal of the origins of Crests and Relics, AM still has them as the embodiment of Divine Right. Except senior Faerghus nobles (including, in AM, the two highest ranking nobles in the Kingdom after Dimitri) do not see Crests and Relics as the embodiment of Divine Right. Dimitri explicitly brings up that Relics and Crests are useful and necessary for purposes of war. The end of AM gives him an age of peace. And in a time of peace, there is no more need for Relics and Crests as the leaders of Faerghus see it. quote:Without the war and the Cornelia coup making it clear where the allegiance of the various Kingdom nobility falls, there’s nothing stopping them from just doing a Duscur Mk2 on Dimitri is they disapprove of his reforms (and any worthwhile reform would have them disapprove of it because they are feudal nobility who stoop to genocide). And a sympathetic Church only comes about due to the war also. All of the reforms carried out in any epilogue show that the war was necessary to improve things in Fodlan, no matter how marginally that happens in certain routes. Remember that Duscur wasn't the work of Kingdom nobles. It was the Agarthans. The rest is irrelevant, we don't know what could only have happened because of the war and what could have happened peacefully. You're seeing the way things happened and claiming that they're the only way things could have happened. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 20:26
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Cythereal posted:Byleth changes that. Rhea is not a blind fanatic like Edelgard, and it is possible for Byleth to convince her to have a change of heart. Rhea's rule was probably doomed the moment she created Byleth. No-one in AM works out the true origin of Crests or that they aren’t blessings. Sylvain might dislike them and their influence, but he doesn’t know their source or the fact that they’re straight up biological with no blessings or divine choice involved. AM is one of the least peaceful route endings. VW has to deal with the epilogue Slytherin attack that almost reconquers Fodlan, but many AM-unique endings talk about continued violence in Fodlan. Ingrid, for example, has AM specific endings with Byleth, Ashe and Raphael that talk about battles in Fodlan that aren’t in those paired endings in other routes, and her endings with Dimitri and Dedue also talk about violence in Fodlan. Contrast quote:When the new king was crowned in Faerghus, both Ashe and Ingrid left their homes to travel to Fhirdiad and pledge themselves to the royal family as knights. They each swore to defend the king, come what may, no matter the cost, and to that end they fought side by side in many battles together. They were both praised for their endless devotion and boundless courage, and their names went down in history as peerless knights. Many tales were told of their valor, and how they became indispensable to each other over the years. A handful of those stories went so far as to suggest that they fell in love and became husband and wife, but this may have been an embellishment. quote:When Galatea territory was seized, Ingrid argued strongly for the preservation of its borders. Her request was granted and she was appointed to rule, but because she had previously abandoned her noble house, she was not well accepted by the people at first. It was thanks to the help of Ashe, who arrived to serve House Galatea, that she was able to soften the view the people had toward her by restoring the territory and improving its agriculture. As Galatea's prosperity grew, so too did the love between Ingrid and Ashe. Their wedding ceremony was intended to be a simple one, but lavish blessings from the citizenry made it a lively event. One involves “many battles”, and one involves agriculture so I’m going to consider the first one to be less peaceful than the second. Duscur was caused by Agarthans and Kingdom nobility working together. The Agarthans lent their aid to the reactionary nobility, but they didn’t do it alone and without support: the Kingdom nobility was willing to back a regicidal conspiracy followed by genocide because they disliked Lambert’s new policy. And yeah, I’m relying on evidence; we see two recent attempts at peaceful reform, and both end in disaster for the reformer. I’m going to draw conclusions from this, and if the writers didn’t want me to they should have included even a single example of peaceful reform working out for the better. Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 20:39
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Edelgard did a bunch of stuff poorly but some of these takes are just beyond the pale
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Jun 28, 2021 20:42
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Clawtopsy posted:...Do you really think Rhea, the Church, all of Faerghus would be like "that seems like a good outcome, let's just call it a draw and all go home"? or accept a house arrest? like, i know i got Edelgard Shaped Brain Worms, but drat that is some reading Dimitri/Azure Moon in the noblest possible way. Alright I might have barely paid attention to almost all plot points, but from what I recall Rhea was pretty much an invalid by the end of Azure Moon thus allowing Byleth to become dragon pope. EX-Popes don't get to decide jack about poo poo. And, I mean, in the real world we kind of let war criminals walk free everyday as long as they're not currently doing anything bad, or are giving us money, or used to be president, so yeah I think the odds of Edelgard getting off scott free are pretty high.
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Jun 28, 2021 21:12
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Which is funnier: "If you ain't pope, ya can't say nope" or "If you ain't pope, shut up ya dope"? Why am I even asking this, they're clearly both brilliant. They could also both be said right to Rhea's face without fear of retribution at the end of Azure Moon. I feel like the rules of Dragon Catholicism are very clear on that.
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Jun 28, 2021 21:18
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yeah, Rhea is alive in AM because Dimitri is pro-church and thinks she did nothing wrong. It's a bit different from Edelgard's situation.
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Jun 28, 2021 21:25
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I also feel the situation is a little different what with Rhea being Seiros. Remember how she tried to give a touch of the ol’ identity death to Byleth? Good times, good times.
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Jun 28, 2021 21:39
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Cythereal posted:Rhea at this point is still locked up in Edelgard's basement and the Church is Seteth (who is far more reasonable than Rhea) and Byleth (who's even more level-headed). And yes, actually, white peace under these kinds of circumstances did happen historically. There would likely be some concessions, such as territory, in the final peace treaty, but it wouldn't be too unusual for a faux-medieval period. quote:Seteth: The fault is my own. I failed to see the wickedness within Edelgard's heart. quote quote:Seteth: She is one of your students. I understand your desire for a path to peace. But she will never bend to our will. You do understand that, do you not? We have no choice but to kill her. Seteth sounds reasonable but he's well, violent and uncompromising himself plenty. quote:That's because she never talks to Dimitri and finds out what he wants. Dimitri's no fan of the Crest system, and many AM epilogues talk about the Crest system being abolished (Sylvain is your man for this, and the other ranking nobles of Faerghus at that point range from indifferent to hostile to the Crest system themselves). Rhea is replaced by Byleth as Archbishop, and I think it's fair to assume that the Church under Byleth's rule is infinitely more chill and liberal than it was under Rhea's regime. Dimitri is absolutely a fan of the Crest system. quote:Dimitri: I believe that Margrave Gautier was wrong to disinherit Miklan simply because he did not bear a Crest. Like, so much or your stance seems based on the idea that Dimitri was, well, not planning revenge for 4 years. Do you seriously think he wasn't going to try and claim Arundel's head himself violently at some point? Tired Moritz posted:yeah, Rhea is alive in AM because Dimitri is pro-church and thinks she did nothing wrong. It's a bit different from Edelgard's situation. He's not actually pro-church, he's honestly disdainful of the goddess but gotta keep it because change is hard.
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Jun 28, 2021 21:40
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Clawtopsy posted:I also feel the situation is a little different what with Rhea being Seiros. Remember how she tried to give a touch of the ol’ identity death to Byleth? Good times, good times. Like, can you imagine if she had actually succeeded at that? Would the students just blindly accept sacrificing Professor for Sothis? Would JERALT?
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Jun 28, 2021 21:41
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McTimmy posted:Like, can you imagine if she had actually succeeded at that? Would the students just blindly accept sacrificing Professor for Sothis? Would JERALT? Jeralt wouldn’t have had much of a say at that point.
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Jun 28, 2021 21:46
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McTimmy posted:Like, can you imagine if she had actually succeeded at that? Would the students just blindly accept sacrificing Professor for Sothis? Would JERALT? Yeah she really isn't thinking that far ahead. Rhea's still almost entirely on the 'Bring Mom back and she'll fix everything' level in terms of magical thinking about Sothis. Also she's a dragon who doesn't have a lot of compunctions about killing people who get between her and her mom. I doubt she felt the least bit threatened by some angry students.
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Jun 28, 2021 21:47
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Jun 28, 2021 21:49
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Clawtopsy posted:Jeralt wouldn’t have had much of a say at that point. Well duh but she was clearly planning this way before that happened.
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Jun 28, 2021 22:03
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McTimmy posted:Well duh but she was clearly planning this way before that happened. She might not have seen why he’d object. After all, it wasn’t like the vessel was a real person before. Given her line at the end of SS (“You're here, Mother”), it’s debatable if (an unromanced) Rhea ever really sees Byleth as a real person. Still, I feel the person with the most interesting (and likely one of the worst) reaction to Rhea mind-murdering Byleth would be Sothis. Like, how do you deal with your child having just murdered your best friend “for you” after she’s spent the past millennia crafting this religion around you that has very little to do with what you actually were? Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jun 28, 2021 |
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Jun 28, 2021 22:11
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Rhea doesn't actually know what she's doing or what Byleth's situation is and the throne isn't some mcguffin like fates with the other half of Sothis' soul downloaded into it or anything. It's just a chair. It's hilarious how the darkest and most uncharitable interpretations have to always be taken here just to make Edelgard look better, even loving Seteth of all people being called violent and uncompromising lmao And yet there's somehow always a perfectly valid and justified reason for incompetent bandit assassination plots, grooming a traumatized and mentally broken young mass murderer into being your personal hitman with his own "hunting grounds", aiding and abetting in the torture and experimentation of fellow students, lying about how a fortress just got wiped off the map and pinning it on your enemies, thinking Nemesis was a cool guy and the original war was just a simple dispute, drowning the continent in blood, saying dumb poo poo like Flayn must not be allowed "power over the the people" because of her race, weird how that works
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Jun 28, 2021 22:32
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Perfect Potato posted:Rhea doesn't actually know what she's doing or what Byleth's situation is and the throne isn't some mcguffin like fates with the other half of Sothis' soul downloaded into it or anything. It's just a chair. It's hilarious how the darkest and most uncharitable interpretations have to always be taken here just to make Edelgard look better, even loving Seteth of all people being called violent and uncompromising lmao Rhea is explicitly trying to get Sothis to over-write Byleth though. That's literally the text of the game  Like yeah, it doesn't work but she's basically at the point where she's trying anything she can and hoping it sticks. This is a weird point to get hung up on because Rhea calls herself out on it during SS.quote:And yet there's somehow always a perfectly valid and justified reason for incompetent bandit assassination plots, grooming a traumatized and mentally broken young mass murderer into being your personal hitman with his own "hunting grounds", aiding and abetting in the torture and experimentation of fellow students, lying about how a fortress just got wiped off the map and pinning it on your enemies, thinking Nemesis was a cool guy and the original war was just a simple dispute, drowning the continent in blood, saying dumb poo poo like Flayn must not be allowed "power over the the people" because of her race, weird how that works And yeah Edelgard does some real dumb and hosed up stuff over the course of the game. Much like all the protagonists. Like Dimitri's hallucinations that lead him on a murder/torture tour or how Claude just fucks off the second he can so he can go home and run his real country. Seteth is the only one who has mostly clean hands and they should have put him in charge instead of one of two incredibly traumatized young adults or a barely functional golem that's only just learned how to human.
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Jun 28, 2021 22:37
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Perfect Potato posted:Rhea doesn't actually know what she's doing or what Byleth's situation is and the throne isn't some mcguffin like fates with the other half of Sothis' soul downloaded into it or anything. It's just a chair. It's hilarious how the darkest and most uncharitable interpretations have to always be taken here just to make Edelgard look better, even loving Seteth of all people being called violent and uncompromising lmao Seteth folds to Rhea's actions even after acknowledging them as morally wrong. He is blatantly wrong about Edelgard stealing the crown from her father, and is fully on-board with just outright killing Edelgard like in the text I straight posted. He is fully willing to burn people alive - just like Edelgard gets called out on - and will gleefully run down and butcher fleeing enemy combatants. Let's see: Rhea/Claude/Dimitri were all either planning or conducted assassination/execution plots themselves, Dedue and Catherine are both openly willing to say they'd kill children for Dimitri/Rhea, Dimitri does kill children, and haha Jeritza is older than Edelgard anyway and apparently Edelgard's own mental issues should just be ignored or something in comparison to Jertiza's?, Dimitri tortures and brutalizes, Rhea human experiments and beyond, Rhea uses Ailell as the actual church's actions in the first place, no, Edelgard doesn't think Nemesis was loving cool goddamn the point was the truth wasn't the church's scripture, Rhea literally has drowned the continent in blood, as has Faerghus, and Dimitri was going to wipe out the Empire entirely and Claude was planning to conquer before everyone beat him to it, Flayn "literally leading an army to attack Edelgard in the Imperial throne room" with all her power, Rhea's entire plan is because she believes humans need the goddess back because they can't be trusted as she clamps down on education and technological progress.
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Jun 28, 2021 22:50
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Also for as much poo poo as Edelgard can deservedly get for some of her dumber plans I am still in awe at how much better they were than Claude's. Remember if Edelgard hadn't forced the issue first Claude was planning on stealing the Sword of the Creator and using it to destroy the mountain range that was a natural barrier between Fodlan and Almyra. I kinda want to see a world where he got his poo poo together and tried his plan first because holy poo poo that could have gone hilariously poorly. Claude just starting a different hellwar out of nowhere would make things go to some incredible places.
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Jun 28, 2021 22:57
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The AM parlay has Dimitri telling Edelgard with a straight face that he sees no fault with the system that, as late as three months earlier, turned his entire country into a death cult because everyone figured that mass suicide was preferable to standing up to the lunatic that was the previous king's son. A lot of Edelgard's White Clouds schemes don't fully stand up to scrutiny, but at that point, devoting all of her remaining resources to taking out Dimitri was entirely the rational choice.
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Jun 28, 2021 22:59
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The ultimate point of the game is that these are all hosed up people screwed over by the system who need Byleth's help to overcome their flaws. The exception is Rhea, who invented a religion supposedly about her mother where people never say the name "Sothis" and worship Seiros as a false god. From the DLC we know she doesn't give a poo poo about the other dragons and experiments on them with necromancy. She even turns into a monster at the end of her own route in case you didn't get it.
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Jun 28, 2021 23:02
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Rhea stroking your hair and singing at you was legit creepy
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Jun 28, 2021 23:10
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Does the fact that you can romance Rhea make her a literal "motherfukcer"? Hey! You already used that one!
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Jun 28, 2021 23:43
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I got you covered
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Jun 28, 2021 23:49
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 13:19 |
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Perfect Potato posted:I got you covered
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Jun 29, 2021 00:57
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