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Azathoth posted:Jokic is one of those players for whom stats disagree a lot, at least for his defense. He has great DWS numbers (4th) but a much worse Defensive Rating (76th). Both stats have their problems, but it feels like the truth is in the middle. He's an average defensive player, not a liability but also not someone who should be called a good defender. he’s got smoked by Chris Paul. zubac is even doing better in regular season pablum games when he can just stand in the lane and get rebounds he’s fine
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Jun 30, 2021 20:59
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The Maestro posted:Defensive WS measures defensive efficiency and minutes played basically. 1 DWS = 1 win added to the team’s record. Jokic plays a lot of minutes and plays pretty efficient defense. Stats are not the end all be all but should be used as a tool to inform what you are seeing, rather than ignored entirely because of “fantasy basketball mentality.” If you have an opinion on a player but the stats say the opposite, you should investigate both your opinion and the stat and try to get a clearer picture. The stats are just numbers. They don’t have opinions - some of them may have biases, but that can be taken into account. He lost in the second round of the playoffs, so currently he actually has zero "win" shares
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Jun 30, 2021 21:02
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The Maestro posted:Sure, I’m not saying he’s great, but he’s definitely good. he’s ranked 76th in drtg on bbref but that’s not filtered for a minimum minutes played - Gary Payton II is first on that list (with a 150+ Ortg to boot). He’s ranked 15th at statmuse with minimum 2000 mins played per 82 games (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-defensive-rating-leaders-2021) Yeah, shoulda looked at minutes, but that's a lot of effort. I'll still stand by my comment that he's overvalued in stats but acting like he's a bum on defense sure doesn't match up with what I saw from him when I watched, and there sure isn't a statistical argument for it either.
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Jun 30, 2021 21:17
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euphronius posted:he’s got smoked by Chris Paul. zubac is even doing better Chris Paul had covid between these series. He looks slow as hell and pretty much worthless right now.
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Jun 30, 2021 21:21
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Vox Nihili posted:Chris Paul had covid between these series. He looks slow as hell and pretty much worthless right now. interesting that jokic gets the same excuses as Donald Trump (COVID !!) also Paul is vaccinated I’m sure it wasn’t bad. the clippers are just good at slowing him down .
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Jun 30, 2021 21:27
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any way my point is not that he doesn’t nominally play center. he obviously does. it’s just that saying “best passer for a center !!” is nonsensical. it would be like putting Clayton Kershaw in left field and saying he’s the best pitcher for a left fielder.
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Jun 30, 2021 21:29
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Saying he's the best passing center seems like a perfectly normal and reasonable observation. Normally true centers are not great playmakers, and it's what makes his game distinct.
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Jun 30, 2021 21:42
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This is just that chapter in the Phantom Tollbooth where he comes across the house in which live the Tallest Midget in the World, the Smallest Giant in the World, the Skinniest Fat Man in the World, and the Fattest Skinny Man in the World. Get this - [spoiler]they’re all the same dude!!![/spoler]
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Jun 30, 2021 21:51
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Vox Nihili posted:Saying he's the best passing center seems like a perfectly normal and reasonable observation. Normally true centers are not great playmakers, and it's what makes his game distinct.
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Jun 30, 2021 22:11
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euphronious just wants to minimize jokic via d&d hairsplitting of ball
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Jun 30, 2021 22:13
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jokic rules
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Jun 30, 2021 22:13
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joke bitch
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Jun 30, 2021 22:38
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ex post facho posted:euphronious just wants to minimize jokic via d&d hairsplitting of ball he's extremely not mad that embiid wasn't mvp because voters don't like it when he's a healthy scratch for a quarter of the games
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Jun 30, 2021 22:45
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https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1410330506487492612
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Jun 30, 2021 23:36
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he’s about to get KD’d and it ain’t even the finals
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Jul 1, 2021 00:45
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Vox Nihili posted:Saying he's the best passing center seems like a perfectly normal and reasonable observation. Normally true centers are not great playmakers, and it's what makes his game distinct. he’s not a true center that is the point
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Jul 1, 2021 14:15
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euphronius posted:he’s not a true center that is the point ok I'll bite, can you define "true center" without referencing a specific player?
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Jul 1, 2021 14:21
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al Jefferson oops poo poo
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Jul 1, 2021 14:42
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the suns baby 
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Jul 1, 2021 16:50
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the suns are good imo
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Jul 1, 2021 16:56
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https://twitter.com/amicohoops/status/1410674775261945862?s=21 love the picture
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Jul 1, 2021 20:56
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Come back Kevin, we need you now. The North beckons you home.
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Jul 1, 2021 21:01
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https://twitter.com/knarsu3/status/1411063771741704193?s=21
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Jul 2, 2021 22:12
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what’s lebron
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Jul 2, 2021 22:14
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lol that swing between offense and defense on lillard
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Jul 2, 2021 22:14
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I don’t think those stats are good but I posted it for you stat heads
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Jul 2, 2021 22:16
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I just read an article on what lebron is and lmao
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Jul 2, 2021 22:21
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we need a Nate silver emote
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Jul 2, 2021 22:25
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if you need any more proof why “advanced stats” are utter garbage 
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Jul 2, 2021 22:27
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lmao Ben Simmons had a better impact than Trae due to passing and defense I guess. Guess stats can't account for the clutch gene or lack thereof
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Jul 2, 2021 22:27
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euphronius posted:if you need any more proof why “advanced stats” are utter garbage Well that's why the stat nerd lab rats need to keep making the advanced stats better to adjust for those realities. Doesn't invalidate advanced stats wholesale
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Jul 2, 2021 22:28
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Yossarian-22 posted:lmao Ben Simmons had a better impact than Trae due to passing and defense I guess. Guess stats can't account for the clutch gene or lack thereof those stats are a simulacrum (I.e. MVP award fantasy land) we all watched trae outplay Simmons in actual basketball games
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Jul 2, 2021 22:29
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Yossarian-22 posted:Well that's why the stat nerd lab rats need to keep making the advanced stats better to adjust for those realities. Doesn't invalidate advanced stats wholesale we’ve had all the stats We’ve needed for like 70 years
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Jul 2, 2021 22:29
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Sorry true shooting is a good stat and that is relatively new And the offensive and defensive Rating stats Those are good and new I think
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Jul 2, 2021 22:32
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euphronius posted:we’ve had all the stats We’ve needed for like 70 years If that were the case then DeMarcus Cousins would be a top ten center of all time during his prime, but the plus minus stats clearly don't support that
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Jul 2, 2021 22:32
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what is the plus minus stat
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Jul 2, 2021 22:35
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you mean like the hockey stat ?
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Jul 2, 2021 22:35
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Look at this dude https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01.html#2014-2018-sum:per_game I am a Kings fan and this dude had top 5-10 NBA stats every year for about 5 years. He excelled in every traditional stat category. And yet his teams only made the playoffs once. He was clearly very good but by traditional stats he looked like the single best player in the NBA for a good period.
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Jul 2, 2021 22:37
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if you are talking to me you know I agree . demarcus is the Steph curry of centers
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Jul 2, 2021 22:37
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| # ? May 25, 2024 19:02 |
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Hall of Fame forward Antoine Walker
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Jul 2, 2021 22:39
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