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theflyingexecutive posted:if you don’t read 1000-tweet threads, how are you supposed to engage sunk cost fallacy when you get to the author’s often unsupported and tenuous conclusions? ty for posting in the Epstein thread that u r enlightened I guess
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Jul 1, 2021 14:59
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Suplex Liberace posted:This is cool thanks nut. I hate how like 12 people seem to have set in motion just the worst possible world we could have idle wealthy who've gone troubled in the brain from lack of purpose/access to a gluttons banquet of resources concocting poo poo to make themselves interesting and being swayed by every huckster with a flimsy theory, how much is the mental illness drug trade worth? lol. not saying the drugs shouldn't exist, but like most things under capital it's treating the symptoms and not the cause, imagine how much less insane society would be if everyone had secure materials
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Jul 1, 2021 15:00
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nut posted:alright, I've been sitting on this one for a while and I finally got through it and wanna share it. This is a twitter thread about the origins of the modern iteration of the concept that artistic talent is connected to mental illness and that this connection is both genetic and inheritable. It focuses on the work of Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison. You will see some familiar names here and there and even a kind of spoiler in that sense, but read it all the way through and let your brain ease and ooze then shatter. I wasn't expecting the JFK tie in
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Jul 1, 2021 15:06
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bedpan posted:I wasn't expecting the JFK tie in JFK is always gonna pop up
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Jul 1, 2021 15:07
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There's no such thing as a coincidence
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Jul 1, 2021 15:08
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nut posted:alright, I've been sitting on this one for a while and I finally got through it and wanna share it. This is a twitter thread about the origins of the modern iteration of the concept that artistic talent is connected to mental illness and that this connection is both genetic and inheritable. It focuses on the work of Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison. You will see some familiar names here and there and even a kind of spoiler in that sense, but read it all the way through and let your brain ease and ooze then shatter. I lolled when I saw the words John Hinckley Sr.
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Jul 1, 2021 15:14
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theflyingexecutive posted:if you don’t read 1000-tweet threads, how are you supposed to engage sunk cost fallacy when you get to the author’s often unsupported and tenuous conclusions? yea I mean the person hugely behind the common narrative around mental illness in the west being propped up by mkultra goons isn’t sus at all or anything. it’s not like mental illness is t a trillion dollar industry and very useful scapegoat for would be fallout from social and political disorder or anything .
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Jul 1, 2021 15:32
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https://www.tmz.com/2021/06/29/former-disney-star-kyle-massey-charged-felony-communication-with-minor/ Looks like Drake isn't the only 2000's tv star to get caught being creepy.
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Jul 1, 2021 15:34
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inferis posted:lmao a press release counts as a legal agreement? It almost certainly wouldn’t have if the civil judge hadn’t forced Cosby to testify on subjects implicated by the Fifth Amendment. But because he did, and because there is no way to go back and “fix” that mistake at this point (the civil suit settled for ~$3mil), the state can’t renege on its representation to Cosby. So the real issue as I read it, is that the civil judge took the former prosecutor’s word at face value and played a bit loose with the law in order to help the victim in her civil suit.
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Jul 1, 2021 15:36
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nut posted:ty for posting in the Epstein thread that u r enlightened I guess not saying all Twitter threads are inaccurate, you just gotta be aware that some people beef up weak premises with weak arguments buried in tweet 275/352, some people are just long-winded, and some people are deliberately trying to waste your time with lies and misdirection. it’s why any Q/pizzagate video is 2 hours long
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Jul 1, 2021 15:41
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theflyingexecutive posted:not saying all Twitter threads are inaccurate, you just gotta be aware that some people beef up weak premises with weak arguments buried in tweet 275/352, some people are just long-winded, and some people are deliberately trying to waste your time with lies and misdirection. it’s why any Q/pizzagate video is 2 hours long I mean u can argue it's why 60 minutes is 60 minutes. Obviously criticism is more important than the length of anything. And I feel u and even know u mean well, I was just fulfilling the regular pushback against the odd poster who appears and posts "what if not, tho?"
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Jul 1, 2021 15:58
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That mfer going around calling himself Jolly instead of literally anything else, really grinds my gears. Almost as much as his former colleagues who still try to carry water for a fuckin dead dude they've just been told was doing spook mind control experiments in their college, free clinic, what have you. Raises eyebrows. Especially when you have the emails from the mit media lab knowing full well where the dollars were coming from, but hiding it until they couldn't anymore then giving a lukewarm apology. Not to get into the oil companies knowing climate change was real in like the 70s, and suppressing TF out of that to this day. poo poo. We've been hosed for a long, long time.
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Jul 1, 2021 15:58
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The Jolly West twist at the end 
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Jul 1, 2021 15:59
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Driftingmouse posted:https://www.tmz.com/2021/06/29/former-disney-star-kyle-massey-charged-felony-communication-with-minor/ oh no not Cory in the house
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Jul 1, 2021 16:00
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Cory in the Big House
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Jul 1, 2021 16:02
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inferis posted:lmao a press release counts as a legal agreement? if you're rich it certainly does
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Jul 1, 2021 16:03
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Perry Mason Jar posted:Oh come on. COME ON! What the gently caress lol i was ok with the jfk connections but dr west???
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Jul 1, 2021 16:10
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Edward Bennet Williams was the name that really jumped out at me, I guess I figured it was heading towards Jolly when the tweeter established th psychology-CIA connection. But the Williams shout out got me hooting
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Jul 1, 2021 17:41
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smarxist posted:JFK is always gonna pop up
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Jul 1, 2021 18:21
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rex rabidorum vires posted:The Jolly West twist at the end the good doctor popping his head up at the end got a good belly laugh out of me.
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Jul 1, 2021 18:21
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Suplex Liberace posted:This is cool thanks nut. I hate how like 12 people seem to have set in motion just the worst possible world we could have i don't quite get how the pop psychiatry canard where geniuses are more mysterious and geniusy if they're depressed or bipolar or autistic or whatever is the worst possible world. i feel like i'm missing something here. Shear Modulus has issued a correction as of 18:26 on Jul 1, 2021 |
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Jul 1, 2021 18:24
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ymgve posted:I don't feel like reading 1000 post twitter threads, where is the crack ping point https://twitter.com/mbneedham/status/1395602011979231236 And here's the thread unrolled since Twitter sucks on desktop https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1395602005654220800.html
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Jul 1, 2021 18:49
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Shear Modulus posted:i don't quite get how the pop psychiatry canard where geniuses are more mysterious and geniusy if they're depressed or bipolar or autistic or whatever is the worst possible world. i feel like i'm missing something here. geniuses are, almost by definition, non-neurotypical i, for one, get a lot of traction out of the idea that crazy people are some sort of hyperintelligent fey race
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Jul 1, 2021 18:52
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Shear Modulus posted:i don't quite get how the pop psychiatry canard where geniuses are more mysterious and geniusy if they're depressed or bipolar or autistic or whatever is the worst possible world. i feel like i'm missing something here. The issue is primarily having to do with the idea of mental illness being genetically caused. Romanticizing it by way of genius/creativity suggests that remediation of the issue is not even desirable. Prescribing of pharma for it suggests that remediation of the issue, which is genetic and biological in etiology (they say), can only be accomplished by way of medication. Which most people recognize is a stop-gap measure in and of itself - drugs stop working so you have to change drugs, drug works but you can't stop taking it, etc.
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Jul 1, 2021 18:59
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and if nothing works and you’re still not happy,  we tried, it is what it is
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Jul 1, 2021 19:10
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Shear Modulus posted:i don't quite get how the pop psychiatry canard where geniuses are more mysterious and geniusy if they're depressed or bipolar or autistic or whatever is the worst possible world. i feel like i'm missing something here. i think that's just the marketing angle they went with.
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Jul 1, 2021 19:11
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is this person saying mental illness actually isn’t heritable and we’ve never discovered anything that could suggest it is?
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Jul 1, 2021 19:23
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many drugs make you gain weight and lose sex drive and jolly liked his rockstars cut and hard, theres no conspiracy
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Jul 1, 2021 19:39
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mawarannahr posted:is this person saying mental illness actually isn’t heritable and we’ve never discovered anything that could suggest it is? imo it’s them challenging the hegemonic biological determinism that conflates evidence of genetic inheritance with “unchangeability” and totally disregards that development is an indivisible interaction of genes and environment. they allude to twin studies, which I agree aren’t sufficiently criticized in mainstream science for assuming similarity with increasing relatedness must only be genetics.
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Jul 1, 2021 19:40
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nut posted:imo it’s them challenging the hegemonic biological determinism that conflates evidence of genetic inheritance with “unchangeability” and totally disregards that development is an indivisible interaction of genes and environment. they allude to twin studies, which I agree aren’t sufficiently criticized in mainstream science for assuming similarity with increasing relatedness must only be genetics. this is spot on, it's the incompatibility between a person's constitution and their environment this is why they are so obsessed with treating the mental illness itself, because the environmental causes are basically just "capitalism"
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Jul 1, 2021 19:48
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Driftingmouse posted:https://www.tmz.com/2021/06/29/former-disney-star-kyle-massey-charged-felony-communication-with-minor/ I like how it took me a second to figure out which Drake from television you were talking about.
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Jul 1, 2021 19:58
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It's kinda sus that the marketing team behind "huh, some people are just genetically crazy and snap for no reason" is the same team that killed ruby and were waterboarding kaszcinzki and mcveigh with lsd but idk
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Jul 1, 2021 20:05
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lmao https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/jrakd/is_there_any_legs_to_the_mark_david_chapmanjohn/ "Mark David Chapman- worked for world vision- an evangelical relief corporation. Murdered john lennon John Hinckley Sr.- president of World Vision. Campaign contributor against Ronald Reagan in 1980 primary, supporter of Bush. John Hinckley Jr.- attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan Scott Hinckley- older brother of John Jr., vice president of father’s oil company, friends with Neil Bush, George W. Bush’s brother" http://americanjudas.blogspot.com/2011/02/why-im-really-upset-that-watson.html bonus jim jones linkage there as well lol
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Jul 1, 2021 20:26
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mawarannahr posted:is this person saying mental illness actually isn’t heritable and we’ve never discovered anything that could suggest it is? a lot of the evidence for narrow sense heritability of a lot of traits is grounded in twin research which is increasingly coming under scrutiny from some quarters. basically what the twin studies do is to find identical twins and assume that the genetic component of variation is fixed and measure a variety of other stuff and then assume that this constitutes narrow sense heritability. this is a good idea, but it's problematic for a variety of reasons ranging from formally statistical (heritability is a dynamic variable depending heavily on context to emerge) to philosophical (increasingly, people are coming around to the idea of genes as predispositions, which makes narrow sense heritability very difficult as a concept) to biological (there's a fair amount of stuff that goes on before the fetus is fully matured, which is not covered by the twin separation) which all basically boil down to "you haven't fully controlled for what you hoped to control in your experimental design" to go from this critique to say that there's no heritability of mental illness is imo a dramatic and not justified step. what these confounding factors do is indicate that our estimates for heritability are exaggerated. the evidence for genetic predisposition influencing personality and mental illness remains very strong.
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Jul 1, 2021 20:48
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theflyingexecutive posted:if you don’t read 1000-tweet threads, how are you supposed to engage sunk cost fallacy when you get to the author’s often unsupported and tenuous conclusions? 
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Jul 1, 2021 22:05
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mawarannahr posted:is this person saying mental illness actually isn’t heritable and we’ve never discovered anything that could suggest it is? The main thing that always comes up in the "heritability" issue is that heritability does not necessarily mean genetic. It happens all the time with race scientists, and it's an insanely common misconception to laymen and in academic fields. For instance, your bipolar disorder may be a heritable condition because it ties into other heritable factors, like your class conditions or the environment. Why should we suppose that Lord Byron inherited a genius condition from a family with mental illness, when what made Byron a genius was making perfectly reasonable observations of how hosed up and stupid the society he lived in was and being able to express that through poetry? The depths of the medical quackery and bad assumptions are enough to make your head spin. It just feels like the genetic origins of mental illness has never really had any kind of reckoning, and why would it when there's so much institutional support behind it? e: by "genetic origins" I mean the deterministic fatalism of your genes making you mentally ill. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 22:32 on Jul 1, 2021 |
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Jul 1, 2021 22:25
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I think someone put it once as wearing a dress is genetic and your zip code is heritable
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Jul 1, 2021 22:52
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sweet new castlevania title
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Jul 1, 2021 23:00
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V. Illych L. posted:a lot of the evidence for narrow sense heritability of a lot of traits is grounded in twin research which is increasingly coming under scrutiny from some quarters. basically what the twin studies do is to find identical twins and assume that the genetic component of variation is fixed and measure a variety of other stuff and then assume that this constitutes narrow sense heritability. this is a good idea, but it's problematic for a variety of reasons ranging from formally statistical (heritability is a dynamic variable depending heavily on context to emerge) to philosophical (increasingly, people are coming around to the idea of genes as predispositions, which makes narrow sense heritability very difficult as a concept) to biological (there's a fair amount of stuff that goes on before the fetus is fully matured, which is not covered by the twin separation) which all basically boil down to "you haven't fully controlled for what you hoped to control in your experimental design" who does twin studies without accounting for environmental factors anymore? it’s a solid criticism of how we got here but not really of how psychological research has been done for years and years. the biopsychosocial model is the main one taught these days afaik, not the biomedical model. ex. https://www.nature.com/articles/ng.3285 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0151405
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Jul 1, 2021 23:54
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And then the Iowa Writer Workshop in the last tweet.
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