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Megillah Gorilla posted:Ohh yeah, love me some ridiculously designed anime bridge. Ooh I like bridge chat. This really appeals to me, and I’ve definitely designed something similar as a kid with the multi-level stuff.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:44
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 Reminds me of this sort of thing, I love a multilevel bridge.
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Jun 30, 2021 21:24
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I still never understood why the bridges on Trek Ships were on like one of the most vulnerable parts of the ship. Or like, Star Wars Star Destroyers as well, as extremely comically portrayed at the end of Return of the Jedi (plus that instance having no redundant command areas to instantly take over if the bridge was destroyed). It's also something laff about how the pilots of the titans in something like Pacific Rim are in the head. Put those dudes in the chest at least? But then again, like the "best" ship design for most realistic real world where mass was no issue to propulsion would probably be something pretty boring like a Borg cube or whatever.
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Jun 30, 2021 22:43
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The best ship, is no ship at all! Accept no less than a portal or stargate. After all, the journey... is the destination!
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Jun 30, 2021 22:55
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Brawnfire posted:The best ship, is no ship at all! Accept no less than a portal or stargate. After all, the journey... is the destination! Boring, I like my logistics to be very involved. Plus a shuttle ain't gonna gently caress you up making you rematerialize in the wrong time or a different dimension. Also a shuttle certainly will not cause a resonance cascade.
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Jun 30, 2021 23:11
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Arcsquad12 posted:I really like the CIC layout of the Normandy SR1 and SR2. Distinct lack of chairs around the tactical map and all the gunners and personnel at their stations are way too far away from the CIC itself, but it has a neat layout with the raised command platform above the galaxy map. An admiral comes right out and tells Shepard how stupid that layout is. The only defence Shepard gives is that it's what they've been trained with. Linux Pirate posted:Boring, I like my logistics to be very involved. Plus a shuttle ain't gonna gently caress you up making you rematerialize in the wrong time or a different dimension. Also a shuttle certainly will not cause a resonance cascade.
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Jun 30, 2021 23:27
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Bug Squash posted:An admiral comes right out and tells Shepard how stupid that layout is. The only defence Shepard gives is that it's what they've been trained with. Nah the Admiral complains about the setup and Shep counters by saying that it's a Turian CIC design and since the SR1 is a testbed they were experimenting to see if it worked well with human crews. I know it looks silly but it also looks pretty. Not everything can look like the Galactica CIC. Still better than the exploding glass windows on the Pegasus CIC/Coffee Room.
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Jul 1, 2021 00:00
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jeeves posted:I still never understood why the bridges on Trek Ships were on like one of the most vulnerable parts of the ship. Or like, Star Wars Star Destroyers as well, as extremely comically portrayed at the end of Return of the Jedi (plus that instance having no redundant command areas to instantly take over if the bridge was destroyed). With Star Trek I'd say there's often not much really placing where rooms in the ship actually are from the show content because it's not like there's windows. With Star Wars, arguably the Star Destroyer bridge isn't normally super vulnerable because it's sitting right between two redundant shield generators that have to be taken down first, and administratively the Empire is all about funneling loyalty through one spot instead of having redundant commanding officers. But the general principle of the bridge of a ship goes further than that, back to a core part of how ships worked throughout naval history. It's all about giving the captain and command staff a place where they can see long distances without being blocked by other parts of the ship, and the usefulness of that and being in proximity of the helm often outweighs the added vulnerability during combat situations. Although I guess there's also the fact that if you try to place the bridge much lower in the ship, there's a limit to how much you can bury it in the hull before sinking too early becomes an issue. I think modern, post-WW2 ships may be more likely to have captains hanging out in the much better-defended CIC during attacks, since many engagements are done beyond visual range, but I think some, like aircraft carriers, will still hang out in the bridge in the elevated tower above the rest of the ship. With some modern threats that ships face, just one hit anywhere on the ship could cripple operations, so there's not much point in fortifying a little embedded citadel for the captain. Both Star Wars and Star Trek seem to be settings where most engagements happen within visual range (although with Star Trek, it's hard to tell how much of that is supposed to be just their visual range technology being good enough that every ship might as well be just a couple yards away), so it makes sense that captains would want to have some kind of seat where they can see the action to coordinate things instead of being buried deep in the ship. Most visual mediums also tend to encourage making it more obvious where on the ship people are rather than be buried under floors. Also depending on the setting, there could be advantages in putting the command center of a ship out on the limb on the rest of the thing so that in case of being boarded, there's a chokepoint for the command staff to defend against attackers on the ship itself instead of being in a deep part of the ship with multiple angles of egress.
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Jul 1, 2021 00:02
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Arcsquad12 posted:[quote="Arcsquad12" post="515884599"] The stated justification is that turians like to command with the captain at the back feeding directions to everyone's consoles and watching from afar rather than being up in everyone's business talking to them. Garrus implies that turian crews are very hierarchical and captains don't directly interact with low-ranking subordinates. Brawnfire posted:
 The Covenant in Halo design their bridges like this (you can see the bottom level underneath the outer ring). They also bury their command centers as deeply in the most heavily armored and shielded part of the ship as possible.
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Jul 1, 2021 02:14
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jeeves posted:It's also something laff about how the pilots of the titans in something like Pacific Rim are in the head. Put those dudes in the chest at least? That's where the extremely cancer-causing nuclear reactor is, though.
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Jul 1, 2021 04:32
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Brawnfire posted:
My favourite aspect of that is the beatiful wrappy viewer. Speaking of viewers, for Star Trek 3 they had a couple of cool concepts for the Excelsior bridge they didn't have the budget to do that would've taken the Star Trek bridge in a different direction.    I really like the way how in the last one the stations on the side's controls are on the same big screen as it surrounds them all. It'd be a direct evolution of the TOS bridge in a different way - identical layout of people and stations but also totally different.
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Jul 1, 2021 04:47
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jeeves posted:I still never understood why the bridges on Trek Ships were on like one of the most vulnerable parts of the ship. Or like, Star Wars Star Destroyers as well, as extremely comically portrayed at the end of Return of the Jedi (plus that instance having no redundant command areas to instantly take over if the bridge was destroyed). The problem is stories need to not suck. No one wants to watch as the enemy inches their way closer to the bridge in the middle of the ship, while all subsystems are decimated, leaving the crew up a creek. I hate to pull this card, but bridges in vulnerable areas makes for more drama, and sometimes hard sci-fi isn't the best for storytelling. 
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Jul 1, 2021 04:58
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Andy Probert tried to put the bridge of the Enterprise-D inside (IIRC he actually wanted to put the main bridge in the neck so they didn't have to move when it separated) but Gene insisted that it be moved back to the top of the ship. The initial in-universe justification was that shields are everything and weapons are powerful enough that if you lose them it doesn't matter where the bridge is. And therefore it's on top because the bridge and attached support systems core underneath are actually designed to pop out and be replaced; they can refit the control core of the ship in a day or two by just swinging by and replacing it instead of working on it in-place. We actually saw that a few times: in Lower Decks (hard to see in a still but that cylinder up top is being lowered down when in motion):  and in Beyond https://i.imgur.com/xN2cNdl.gifv Also I think there was an idea at some point that the bridge itself would actually be an escape pod so the bridge crew could stay at their posts until the last moment and then eject, but that fell by the wayside. And Trek has had a whole bunch of times since TNG started where the shields are down and they take a few shots without exploding so the whole 'shields are everything' doesn't really hold up anymore. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Jul 1, 2021 |
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Jul 1, 2021 05:09
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In all the times I can think of when they get shot with shields down, it blows a hole all the way through the saucer, conveniently missing anything important & making a dramatic exterior effects shot. Putting the bridge in the middle wouldn't help against that. Usually it's the explosive consoles that get them anyway.
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Jul 1, 2021 06:14
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What little we saw of Wolf 359 there's not much point to having a bridge in the depths. Once the cube cut through their shields half a saucer section was disintegrated in a second.
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Jul 1, 2021 07:01
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It's all shields, structural integrity and emergency force fields when it comes down to it. Matter can't really get in the way of energy anymore in the trek outside of plot-relevant unobtanium plot armor (like voyager).
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Jul 1, 2021 07:21
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MikeJF posted:My favourite aspect of that is the beatiful wrappy viewer. They’ve got closer to these in the JJTrek and Discovery ships, with the viewscreen being a massive window with tech overlays. People (old stick in the mud fans) decry them, but I think they look really good. The one that made the least sense was First Contact not having the viewscreen on at all as they flew into battle until Picard decided it was dramatically convenient to do so. Lol at the crew all staring at a blank wall, relying purely on readouts on their consoles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7KCb-O20Fg The_Doctor fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Jul 1, 2021 |
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Jul 1, 2021 07:59
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Wasn't the Battle Bridge of the TNG Enterprise in the bowels of the ship? I think they used it like once ever in the entire series.
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Jul 1, 2021 17:12
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It's never really shown, but there shouldn't be any reason why any of the rest of the people in the ship couldn't have their own proper monitors on their own private screens. It's not like that's some kind of level of technology nobody making the movie could've guessed at. Jim Henson made the Dark Crystal in 1982 with puppeteers inside the skeksis costumes each getting their own private monitors, and it seems like the rest of the TV and film industry would've used similar setups if they could just to keep track of what kind of image each of the cameras were getting. The captain gets the big screen because they're in charge and the audience is going to be following the captain's perspective anyways.
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Jul 1, 2021 17:27
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Seems like a good idea since each station would need their own analysis of the image. "Captain, hey, just a sec I was wondering if you could zoom in 200x on 3,5 and apply an ultraviolet filter in the range of--" "Was I or was I not just soliloquizing, Lieutenant?"
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Jul 1, 2021 17:35
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SlothfulCobra posted:It's never really shown, but there shouldn't be any reason why any of the rest of the people in the ship couldn't have their own proper monitors on their own private screens. It's not like that's some kind of level of technology nobody making the movie could've guessed at. 1. Realistic budget-- hauling up aesthetically believable facsimiles of other monitors they can transpose footage onto, which sounds like a lot of production work for fairly little payoff in the final product. 2. People were wildly optimistic about tech advances like space colonies and poo poo in the 20th Century, but no one properly predicted just how fast communications and display tech would leap forward in a 20 year-span. I remember watching TNG and seeing their iPad things and thinking "cool maybe I'll have something like that by the time I'm old enough to be a grandparent" not "this poo poo will be commonplace in my daily life before I'm even done with college."
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Jul 1, 2021 17:37
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Bucnasti posted:Wasn't the Battle Bridge of the TNG Enterprise in the bowels of the ship? I think they used it like once ever in the entire series. It's in the engineering section, about where the saucer meets the engineering section.
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Jul 1, 2021 18:01
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CainFortea posted:It's in the engineering section, about where the saucer meets the engineering section. What I like to call "the saucer tongue"
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Jul 1, 2021 18:10
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?? Not sure what you mean with the monitors, the stations have always had monitors. You had to use your imagination a bit with TOS but the eye level readouts are meant to be screens and for the movies they were all fully animated and for TNG onward all the stations have big touch screens that they often pull up images and data on. I just like the wraparound seamlessly showing the station screen data as well because it's a cool look with the single 360 degree surroundings and being able to look 'past' the stations to what's behind them.
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Jul 1, 2021 19:04
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mind the walrus posted:Well you're talking two problems there: Had a brief surreal moment watching DS9 and realizing Jake was looking at a data pad on his couch in the exact way I was laying on my couch watching DS9 on my tablet quite a few years back.
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Jul 1, 2021 19:07
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Pendevil posted:Had a brief surreal moment watching DS9 and realizing Jake was looking at a data pad on his couch in the exact way I was laying on my couch watching DS9 on my tablet quite a few years back. One thing I did like about Picard was that they showed Starfleet PADDs being the same old big thick things with bezels but at the same time civilians use ones that are paper thin and foldable and no bezel and 3D. Implies that the beefy thick PADDs from TNG were just Starfleet having the 24th century version of a toughbook or something.
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Jul 1, 2021 19:12
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mind the walrus posted:Well you're talking two problems there: It's not that much of a prediction to think in the late 80s that maybe you could stick a monitor into somebody's personals console, because like I said, Jim Henson was doing it in the early 80s.  I don't know if Big Bird had an inner portable TV monitor from the beginning in 1969, but definitely by 1982 they had them in the Dark Crystal. It can be expensive to make a small CRT, but the bigger limitation is the depth, so you can have a small monitor that just is long in the back for the cathode ray tube, and Henson made that work by having people wear it vertically. Maybe not a lot of people predicted pocket portable full-color flatscreens, but anyone in the movie industry probably could've guessed on being able to fit a smaller monitor into some desk-mounted console. Although aesthetically, most of the prop screens in TNG seem to be emulating VFDs or backlit LCDs like you'd find on VCR or microwave displays, partially because their screen props were originally pieces of painted glass lit from behind. A lot of current sci-fi seems to be predicting holographic overlays on top of monitors or windows, but it seems like current attempts at that aren't really catching on because it turns out that when people have a window for a reason, they really want to see through that window, and when they have a monitor they usually don't want to see past it when they're looking at it.
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Jul 1, 2021 20:20
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MikeJF posted:One thing I did like about Picard was that they showed Starfleet PADDs being the same old big thick things with bezels but at the same time civilians use ones that are paper thin and foldable and no bezel and 3D. Implies that the beefy thick PADDs from TNG were just Starfleet having the 24th century version of a toughbook or something.
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Jul 1, 2021 20:26
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The_Doctor posted:They’ve got closer to these in the JJTrek and Discovery ships, with the viewscreen being a massive window with tech overlays. People (old stick in the mud fans) decry them, but I think they look really good. it's amazing how short the space battle is there. if First Contact were made today that'd be at least 10 minutes of cgi explosions
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Jul 1, 2021 21:23
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Cerv posted:it's amazing how short the space battle is there. if First Contact were made today that'd be at least 10 minutes of cgi explosions If it was made today the the enterprise and the defiant would all join up with the fleet and hold a static circle around the cube while they all shoot it with fifty billion phasers like the ending to Discovery Season 2. It's embarrassing how bad the big space battles look in Discovery when they have such a big budget.
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Jul 1, 2021 21:31
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Careful now starting in on NuTrek sucking just means you're a joyless pedant or w/e
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Jul 1, 2021 21:35
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The sound effects used to be so much punchier. These days it's all pip pip blap blap but back in the day it was all CHAwubwubwub BOOOoosh-
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Jul 1, 2021 22:11
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Tighclops posted:The sound effects used to be so much punchier. These days it's all pip pip blap blap but back in the day it was all CHAwubwubwub BOOOoosh- Chumbawama got knocked down, but it'll get up again.
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Jul 1, 2021 22:24
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SlothfulCobra posted:I don't know if Big Bird had an inner portable TV monitor from the beginning in 1969, but definitely by 1982 they had them in the Dark Crystal. It can be expensive to make a small CRT, but the bigger limitation is the depth, so you can have a small monitor that just is long in the back for the cathode ray tube, and Henson made that work by having people wear it vertically. Maybe not a lot of people predicted pocket portable full-color flatscreens, but anyone in the movie industry probably could've guessed on being able to fit a smaller monitor into some desk-mounted console. All consoles in TNG were intended to be full high-resolution touchscreens that just generally showed a standard, minimalist flat user interface. Most of the time they'd just have small animations/readouts in the background with things shown on built-in CRT blended into the overlay and a few elements blinking with isolated backlights, and pretend those were just the 'window' on the screen usually used for data:   but ocasionally they'd go to the trouble of CGing in something larger to show off that they're proper screens    Hell, even back in TOS the intention was that that was a row of screens at each station  MikeJF fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 01:06
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The original LOGH series has some great starship bridges. FPA flagship Hyperion.   This imgur album has more screencaps. I took some screenshots of Reinhard's flagship and Iserlohn fortress command center but Imgur won't let me upload them tonight for some reason. The imperial aesthetic is a mix of sleek and over the top grandiosity.
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Jul 2, 2021 05:16
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That table is loving HUGE
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Jul 2, 2021 05:33
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That table needs its own Roomba
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Jul 2, 2021 05:36
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I imagine the captain comes down from the ceiling and stands on the table during battles. Sort of a mix between a Star Destroyer bridge and a Space Yamato one.
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Jul 2, 2021 06:57
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Imgur finally worked. For the Galactic Empire in LOGH: The bridge of Lohengramm's flagship.  Command centers inside Iserlohn fortress (an 80km diameter space station).  
Vernii fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 21:53
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One thing I like about W40K is that the ships are just bonkers huge because if you’re building space ships out of asteroids then yeah sure go ahead and make it look like a cathedral on the inside and out? Right now getting metal/materials into space is the limiting factor on how big ships can be or how they look (ie: mostly light weight metals). Use raw materials already in space or have a space elevator and suddenly you can make huge cities in space that move.
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Jul 3, 2021 20:58
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