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Copper nickel is great. If you have 3/16 / 4.75mm lines on your car, get an OEM 24364 flaring tool, it's like 25 bucks and on the shelf at AutoZone.
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Jun 26, 2021 20:11
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Oh, this might be a chance for me to use a tube bending technique I've been keeping in my back pocket for the last 25 years. I remember watching a guy hand-bend a very intricate 3D coil for an industrial induction heater. Think spiral of tubing, like inside an induction cooktop, but then rolled into a cylinder. What he did was fill the tubing with glass microspheres. These were solid glass spheres approximately as fine as table salt. In fact, they looked exactly like table salt, but when you stuck your finger in it, it felt greasy because of the microspheres rolling on your skin. So yeah, fill tubing with microspheres, crimp both ends, then hand-form tight bends and the spheres will prevent the tube from collapsing. Aside: the induction heater was for sealing automotive firewall penetrations. The seal was a fire-resistant thermoplastic loaded with metal particles. The induction coil heated the metal bits and melted the polymer, which could then flow around the wires and seal the opening.
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Jun 26, 2021 22:29
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Firewall Bulkhead Connectors OK, I think I am misunderstanding something, or not using the right google keywords. 3/16" Inverted flare tubing unions are super common. They are used to join two pieces of flared brake line. What I am looking for is a longer version of that union, with external threading and nuts so I can use it to penetrate the firewall. Then I have fairly simple brake line runs on each side of the firewall (rather than one giant brake line from hell that passes through the firewall with a grommet). Why is this kind of bulkhead connector so hard to find? Why are AN fittings so common? Am I supposed to be doing this job with AN flared hard lines? AN soft hoses? Should I be making this run with copper nickel hardline with AN flares? I feel I haven't looked at the guts of enough race cars to know how most people do it. This can't be this hard or weird.
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Jun 26, 2021 23:20
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A hydraulics supply store should be able to hook you up with bulkhead fittings to go through the firewall. Or somewhere like this? https://www.summitracing.com/search...AiAAEgK7S_D_BwE
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Jun 26, 2021 23:39
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Yeah, something like this AN-3 right angle fitting would be perfect, IF there's a good way to connect 3/16" copper-nickel hardline to the ends. Is there? Standard AN compression fittings are fine for fuel, oil, and coolant, but I don't think they're strong enough for brake line pressures. So I need a bulkhead connector with native inverted flares, or a pile of AN to inverted flare adapters, or non-compression AN tubing fittings (<- prob the correct answer, still looking tho). e: ok, yeah there is this ferrule/sleeve thing that you use to back up the 37 deg single flare. This was the missing thing I couldn't figure out. e2: I thought I was going to blow my budget on custom machining the mounting plate. But these hydraulic fittings are adding up, too. ryanrs fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jun 27, 2021 |
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Jun 27, 2021 00:35
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You don't need to use glass spheres, cunifer that small bends just fine with your thumbs if you're careful. This line was formed with my thumbs only, and it was the first one I'd done in... I think 6 years? Cunifer is magical stuff. 
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Jun 27, 2021 01:04
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ryanrs posted:
Regular sand works just fine, but isn’t needed 99.9% of the time. You can bend brake tubing, especially copper-nickel, tightly without it.
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Jun 27, 2021 01:08
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In keeping with the theme of function over form (or indeed, despite it), I'm thinking zinc-plated steel hardware is the thing to use for all these hydraulic bits. Stainless is expensive, and aluminum is weak. Besides, nothing rusts in the Bay Area.
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Jun 27, 2021 02:45
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ryanrs posted:Yeah, something like this AN-3 right angle fitting would be perfect, IF there's a good way to connect 3/16" copper-nickel hardline to the ends. Is there? Standard AN compression fittings are fine for fuel, oil, and coolant, but I don't think they're strong enough for brake line pressures. Sorry for sounding like a broken record, or a paid shill for "Big hydraulic store" but unless you have the most obscure, exotic fittings you should be able to find any fittings you need at a hydraulic store in stock and fairly cheap. Even if they don't have a direct fitting that goes from thread X to thread Y, they should be able to hook you up with something that goes, thread X- Thread Z- Thread Y. Based on the taper on the fitting you linked, it looks like a JIC fitting It might not seal perfectly with your flared fittings, but I bet they have something that works for it. The added bonus about going to a store in person is that you can test fit things, and make sure the threads/fittings are the same before you buy. If they even half know their asses from the products they sell, they should be able to hook you up with the right poo poo first try, and then you only need to worry about bending your lines properly in between.
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Jun 27, 2021 03:04
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I don't have anything in hand yet. This weekend is for me to brainstorm potential issues before I send out part orders on Monday. That's why I'm trying to figure out how everything will connect, and making sure I haven't forgotten some major thing. e: I like the idea of a physical shop where I can play around with bent banjos and other fittings to see what fits best. What I might do is order the two handbrakes, then bolt them to a piece of plywood and take that to the hydraulic store. ryanrs fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jun 27, 2021 |
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Jun 27, 2021 03:39
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This is a road, really. It's the unlikely trail that leads to the first bridge over the Eel River. (First? Most-upstream?) Tight squeeze. No $100k sprinter conversions allowed.  The magnificent bridge!  Awesome vistas.  The mighty Eel River. It's about toe-deep here.  Riverside camping, imagine the mosquitos! 
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Jun 28, 2021 05:17
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ryanrs posted:Tight squeeze. No $100k sprinter conversions allowed. Hell yeah, looks like fun. Really beautiful area. ryanrs posted:The magnificent bridge! The really wide lens makes it look like you've ~stanced~ the gently caress out of it lol.
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Jun 28, 2021 05:38
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tuna posted:The really wide lens makes it look like you've ~stanced~ the gently caress out of it lol. 
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Jun 28, 2021 06:08
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ryanrs posted:The mighty Eel River. It's about toe-deep here. I can't not post this, for those unfamiliar 
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Jun 28, 2021 15:30
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Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:I can't not post this, for those unfamiliar Wow, I bet they wish they had that water now...
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Jun 28, 2021 18:52
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I have four of these to route brake lines through the firewall: The elbow is on the engine side of the firewall, pointing up. How do I keep them from rotating when I torque the connecting AN fittings? I can crank down the bulkhead nut pretty tight, or maybe add a lock washer between the should and the firewall, on the elbow side? Comedy option: a custom bracket to hold 4x $8 elbow fittings:  Alas, cnc aluminum costs $140, and 3D printed plastic won't hold up to underhood temp extremes. e: Oh wait, I can get it printed in polycarbonate, that should be ok, right? It's more of an assembly aid anyway. ryanrs fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 07:10
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Generally you use a wrench on the forged part of the elbow. It can be pretty annoying. You're going to want a good set of line wrenches for sure if you stick those so close together, make sure that a line wrench will actually fit on a middle one with the nuts on both sides turned to their most pessimal position (points closest to the center of the fitting being tightened) or you're bound to make yourself rather cross.
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Jun 30, 2021 07:47
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Excellent point! You probably just saved me $20 in wasted 3D printing, ha ha.
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Jun 30, 2021 07:57
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I am always in the pessimal position, baby
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Jun 30, 2021 08:25
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FDM optimized version. - The two mounting holes are vertically off-center so that they are co-linear with the brake fittings, for simpler layout. - Drill template along the bottom edge.  e: as a bonus, now I can say "I 3D printed my own brake components!" ryanrs fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 08:53
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ryanrs posted:FDM optimized version. PC blend or CF nylon would probably be alright under the hood. I made a cruise control pulley in CF Nylon for my friend's '95 accord that held up until he got a new car.
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Jun 30, 2021 09:22
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Yeah some guys make ITB manifold adapters out of it too and it seems to hold up fine.
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Jun 30, 2021 11:32
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kastein posted:Generally you use a wrench on the forged part of the elbow. It can be pretty annoying. You're going to want a good set of line wrenches for sure if you stick those so close together, make sure that a line wrench will actually fit on a middle one with the nuts on both sides turned to their most pessimal position (points closest to the center of the fitting being tightened) or you're bound to make yourself rather cross. What he said. DEFINITELY make sure they're far enough apart. I still have yet to resolve  an issue with a set of hydraulic lines that go to bulkhead fittings. THey are soooo nice and neatly done, but they're also so loving close together that in order to get at 6 of the 7 fittings going through this plate I have to remove multiple other lines. Just to tighten one, then I have to put the others back on there.I bought aset of crowfoot wrenches, that happened to skip the one size that I need to tighten the one line that really needs tightening, and then when I bought the right size wrench, it was too goddam tall. So I persist in macgyver tightening this thing because I can't bring myself to sand down literally about half of a 60+ dollar snap on crowfoot wrench in 1 1/8" size. So uhhh, yeah, rant over, but make sure you space them bitches apart so you don't curse yourself later about it.
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Jun 30, 2021 11:54
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ryanrs posted:e: as a bonus, now I can say "I 3D printed my own brake components!" I could swear you just said something that sounds like "I rolled my own crypto!"
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Jul 1, 2021 05:30
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I rolled my own minivan.
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Jul 1, 2021 05:59
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Uhhhh what?
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Jul 1, 2021 14:22
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Looks like a riff off of "rolled my own crypto"
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Jul 1, 2021 19:47
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Yeah, he means "rolled my own minivan" as in "rebuilt". The Burnt Sienna is unharmed and rumor has it the hydraulic handbrakes arrive today.
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Jul 1, 2021 21:08
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ryanrs posted:Gasoline smell when hot The van has been parked for several days. I started it up, and in a couple minutes noticed a gas smell. It could have just been cold exhaust before the cats heated up, but there were definitely whiffs of raw gas. I drove it around for an hour doing errands, and parked back in my sheltered parking space (no wind), engine hot and still running. Poked around under the hood, zero gas smell. Turned off engine, still zero gas smell. Didn't hear any gurgling. I'm not sure what this means. When I've smelled gas on the trail, the van has been working way harder, and hotter, offroading. Maybe freeway driving isn't enough? Does this system have any valves and stuff that change could behavior in mysterious ways? This hose looks suspicious though:     The hose can loosely swivel at the tee with the intake. I think I need to reproduce the hot, overworked engine, then see if gas vapors spew out of that joint. (Hold a wad of paper towels to joint, then sniff them?)
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Jul 2, 2021 00:19
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That appears to be a crankcase vent hose, or PCV hose. If you are smelling raw gas from that then you have a BIG problem. It is *probably* not the source of the raw gas smell. But by all means check that poo poo.
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Jul 2, 2021 00:25
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I'm guessing a loose hose clamp on a fuel line or possibly an evap leak, though I expect you would have gotten a code for the evap leak and failed smog already.
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Jul 2, 2021 00:31
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So maybe let the van cool completely overnight, then turn it on (but don't start it), and see if there is a gas smell when the fuel pump runs? e: The Sienna doesn't turn on the fuel pump until you crank the engine. I may have to fool it. ryanrs fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 00:34
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It doesn't even prime when you first turn the key to run without cranking it? That'd be really weird. It probably doesn't run for long but it should definitely run for at least a few seconds.
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Jul 2, 2021 05:42
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When I turn the ignition to on, there is a short delay (1 sec?), then a fairly loud VVVVV-vvvvv that I though was the ABS pump doing some self-check. The wiring diagram suggests the ECU turns on the fuel pump during start, and "when the engine is running". Which seems weird. I'll just pull the fuel pump relay and jab 12V down the appropriate contact. I don't think I even need the key in for that to work.
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Jul 2, 2021 06:47
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That actually makes sense. Most modern EFI systems (where "modern" is somewhat negotiable - my 1988 Jeep ECU with less MIPS/RAM/ROM than a loving ti83+ does it) blip the pump at key-on to pressurize the rail but then turn it back off and don't fire the plugs or injectors or turn the pump back on until they see adequate cranking speed via the crank position sensor.
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Jul 2, 2021 12:19
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I hot-wired the fuel pump and ran it for 5 minutes in a semi-enclosed garage with no wind. There was ZERO gas fume smell. I think if there had been even a tiny drop of fuel, I would have smelled it. Hmm.
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Jul 3, 2021 07:58
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Is it just ineffienct burning while the vehicle warms up? I get a gas smell on my 15 Sierra when I remote start it in the morning. I can smell it when I'm near the tailpipe.
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Jul 3, 2021 15:36
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Well it does that, too. And yesterday when I smelled the gas on startup, it could have just been cold engine exhaust + air currents. But the gurgling and gas smell I've noticed on the trail definitely isn't that. I'll keep an eye on it for more data points, but at least the fuel pump test rules out a few car-on-fire type failures (I hope).
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Jul 3, 2021 20:11
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Hydraulic Handbrakes Mounted on plywood to test fit.    Looks amazing.      Testing the ergonomics.      honda whisperer posted:I would also think those drift style hydraulic brake handles but split left/right could work. You could feather a side then. That would do a RF/LR split and LF/RR if you just tied it into the existing system. StormDrain posted:I was thinking a couple of drift brake handles would be awesome. Thank you for the excellent idea!
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Jul 3, 2021 20:26
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That looks loving sweet.
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Jul 3, 2021 21:40
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