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ikanreed posted:That sounds more like space that ends. Endless Space is actually a pun because it refers to the region of space colonized by the ancient super-advanced precursors known only as the Endless (who have now, of course, ended).
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Jul 2, 2021 12:48
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Cynic Jester posted:Looks nice, I'll grab it when it exits EA in 6 to 12 months. It... just left EA, that's what fully released means. I guess there's a "When it comes to steam" or "new releases are buggy" joke in here, but it did literally just leave EA so it's confusing!
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Jul 2, 2021 13:03
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Darkrenown posted:It... just left EA, that's what fully released means. I guess there's a "When it comes to steam" or "new releases are buggy" joke in here, but it did literally just leave EA so it's confusing! It's an epic joik.
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Jul 2, 2021 14:19
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Yeah I think they are committed to Epic forever as far as I can remember. I'm looking forward to getting more into it sometime this summer.
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Jul 2, 2021 16:29
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Mayveena posted:Yeah I think they are committed to Epic forever as far as I can remember. AFAIK it is an Epic exclusive because they funded the game to begin with. Without Epic, the game wouldn't exist at all. In anycase It's a good game and you can play it without the EPG once you buy it. You can literally install it, uninstall the EPG store, and play it from steam if you want. You would have to open up the EPG to update the game, but otherwise that's it.
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Jul 3, 2021 07:25
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Eh, the one time I tried to buy a game on EGS it failed despite multiple attempts with "Unknown error could not complete purchase" or something like that and the EGS thread's response was that's not uncommon and I should check my credit card statement to make sure they didn't still triple charge me for a game they didn't add to my account. So personally as far as I'm concerned any game exclusively on EGS might as well not exist until it's released elsewhere. It's just shocking how much they half assed their platform.
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Jul 3, 2021 16:59
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If I want to play a somewhat less feature-heavy space 4x, is the 2016 Master of Orion worthwhile at $9?
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Jul 3, 2021 20:54
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DrankSinatra posted:If I want to play a somewhat less feature-heavy space 4x, is the 2016 Master of Orion worthwhile at $9? ROTP is free and better
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Jul 3, 2021 20:56
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Kvlt! posted:ROTP is free and better Oh, cool! Thanks! That scratches the "I want to play old-school MOO, but I'd like some modern UI stuff" itch. That's what I get for searching "Master of Orion" and not "moo" on page 1.
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Jul 3, 2021 21:00
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ROTP? Checked OP, didn't see anything that fit
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Jul 3, 2021 23:20
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Ichabod Sexbeast posted:ROTP? Checked OP, didn't see anything that fit Return of the Precursors, a ftp MoO1 remake with some minor changes and QoL updates. Its excellent, and all done by one dude
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Jul 3, 2021 23:27
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Remnants of the Precursors?
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Jul 4, 2021 02:04
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Ichabod Sexbeast posted:ROTP? Checked OP, didn't see anything that fit Search for moo from the bottom up to find the link, it's not called by name in the post. Edit: I should just quote it Rappaport posted:There's a modern remake of MoO 1 in the works (public beta) with an updated UI available, if anyone is into that sort of thing. PerniciousKnid fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jul 4, 2021 |
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Jul 4, 2021 02:29
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doctorfrog posted:Remnants of the Precursors? youre right, its always just ROTP on my computer so I forget the actual title sometimes
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Jul 4, 2021 03:19
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I see ROTP went all in on 90s nostalgia by being written in Java.
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Jul 4, 2021 19:31
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MOO2016 isn't amazing, but it's not... terrible, either. I played a few games of it and it was *fine*. Grab it if it's really cheap, you might get a few play out of it.
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Jul 4, 2021 19:59
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orangelex44 posted:Explorminate did an early access review of it on YouTube this last week, and surprisingly it looks... not bad? The endgame seems to mostly be a wink and a prayer at this point, but that's hardly new for the genre. It at least has some interesting ideas that are only half stolen from other games. Maybe one day one of these devs will start their development at the endgame and then work their way back, making the end game the best or most memorable parts of the game. Right now I'm sure there are millions of 4x players that tend to love the early-to-mid part of these games but then get tired of the bogged down "I'm gonna win but it's gonna take 10 more hours" gameplay we see.
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Jul 4, 2021 20:16
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I just like the part where I scout planets and think about the stuff I’ll build there. Gimme a 1X.
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Jul 4, 2021 22:45
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doctorfrog posted:Gimme a 1X. *finger curls on monkey's paw* Welcome to balloon simulator,
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Jul 4, 2021 22:47
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The 4x tier list: S: Explore A: Expand B: Exterminate C: Exploit
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Jul 4, 2021 22:50
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Relax Or DIE posted:The 4x tier list: Explains why I like warlock 2 so much despite the jank
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Jul 4, 2021 23:24
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Korak posted:Maybe one day one of these devs will start their development at the endgame and then work their way back, making the end game the best or most memorable parts of the game. Right now I'm sure there are millions of 4x players that tend to love the early-to-mid part of these games but then get tired of the bogged down "I'm gonna win but it's gonna take 10 more hours" gameplay we see. The problem with this approach is that you need the early part of the game to be fun or people won't play your game at all. If the endgame is a little janky, well, a lot of people never get that far in the first place.
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Jul 5, 2021 00:07
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orangelex44 posted:The problem with this approach is that you need the early part of the game to be fun or people won't play your game at all. If the endgame is a little janky, well, a lot of people never get that far in the first place. Also, it's really hard to actually develop the endgame first just in a logical sense. You have to have the basic systems in place before you can actually work on the advanced ones.
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Jul 5, 2021 02:03
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The biggest problem with 4x games imo is the lack of macro-tools. It's super important to have a handful of planets/cities/colonies/whatever that you will carefully manage and will be pumping out the majority of your ships/science whatever. While your other planets are important to control/deny from your opponent, they will drastically slow down the pace for each additional planet you get. So you end up with the most important early turns taking a <10 seconds, whereas the less important later turns are taking minutes at a time. Given this scaling problem, the game should be designed to either help the player easily manage all their planets with bulk-orders/build queues or AI Governors, or something that reduces the busy work for the player as they are conquering the limitless worlds the universe has to offer. It's a hard problem to solve and other then star ruler I haven't seen a game handle it well. As an aside star ruler is really good.
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Jul 5, 2021 07:16
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Also end game turns taking forever for the AI.
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Jul 5, 2021 09:05
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doctorfrog posted:I just like the part where I scout planets and think about the stuff I’ll build there. Gimme a 1X. This, I like the explore and expand and exploit parts of 4x the most, and usually actively dislike the extermination part
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Jul 5, 2021 09:17
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:The biggest problem with 4x games imo is the lack of macro-tools. It's super important to have a handful of planets/cities/colonies/whatever that you will carefully manage and will be pumping out the majority of your ships/science whatever. While your other planets are important to control/deny from your opponent, they will drastically slow down the pace for each additional planet you get. So you end up with the most important early turns taking a <10 seconds, whereas the less important later turns are taking minutes at a time. This is the biggest problem with Stellaris for me
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Jul 5, 2021 10:05
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:the game should be designed to either help the player easily manage all their planets with bulk-orders/build queues or AI Governors, or something that reduces the busy work for the player as they are conquering the limitless worlds the universe has to offer. Has any 4x game been improved by the inclusion of a list of buildings you have to build on planets? Just give my some sliders I can use to allocate production priorities, and a copy-paste key on the colony list.
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Jul 5, 2021 12:33
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Stellaris kind of had the right idea with core worlds, but the execution was flawed. If instead you keep the player focused on their core worlds and everything else is colonial nations sending resources their way I think that would be better. Don't give players direct control over their fringe systems, let them develop their own cultures and your grip on them is a reflection of the strength of your core's values and traits. Double down by having the cores eventually become more corrupt and decadent and sparking off a crisis every 100 or so years, allowing your empire to fracture and these former colonial nations then starting their own expansion and decline. Hell let the player choose which of them to switch to when this happens. I think this would reflect well even if you're playing in a game with zero aliens.
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Jul 5, 2021 12:47
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PerniciousKnid posted:Has any 4x game been improved by the inclusion of a list of buildings you have to build on planets? Just give my some sliders I can use to allocate production priorities, and a copy-paste key on the colony list. Sword of the Stars doesn't even have a slider. If a planet has a lot of resources, it's a forge world, if it's big then it's a economic/research world. Your only option is whether to start over-harvesting. Brilliant in its simplicity, and lets players spend the majority of their time in the kickass tactical battles. Endless Space does it really well too. Just choose a specialisation for a planet, and it applies the appropriate boons/maluses on every population unit there, with extra boosts from planet type and research. Absolutely genius idea, and really satisfying to pull off min-maxing with. Planetary build queues are a relic of the past, in my opinion, and just waste everyone's time. At the end of the day, you just have a build queue for a few kinds of worlds, so you might as well just abstract away all that noise. Bug Squash fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Jul 5, 2021 |
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Jul 5, 2021 13:22
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:The biggest problem with 4x games imo is the lack of macro-tools. It's super important to have a handful of planets/cities/colonies/whatever that you will carefully manage and will be pumping out the majority of your ships/science whatever. While your other planets are important to control/deny from your opponent, they will drastically slow down the pace for each additional planet you get. So you end up with the most important early turns taking a <10 seconds, whereas the less important later turns are taking minutes at a time. the problem is AI governors always suck tremendous rear end and build queues can only slightly alleviate the tedium of micromanaging 400 mostly lovely production centers Sword of the Stars nailed it perfectly I think, with local production being entirely abstracted and only a few of your planets actually being worthwhile manufacturing centers at a time, while the rest default to just contributing money. hosed it up a little with all the lategame fiddliness with trade and balancing planets for multiple races and all but by then it's usually pretty much over anyway A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jul 5, 2021 |
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Jul 5, 2021 13:26
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:the problem is AI governors always suck tremendous rear end and build queues can only slightly alleviate the tedium of micromanaging 400 mostly lovely production centers Also that money = research, and can be swapped from 100% to 0% with a single slider.
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Jul 5, 2021 13:30
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:hosed it up a little with all the lategame fiddliness with trade and balancing planets for multiple races and all but by then it's usually pretty much over anyway loving it up is the Kerberos company motto. Trade micro is alleviated by a mod that just multiplies trade ship cost and effectiveness by 5. Still bad design, but slashes the slog.
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Jul 5, 2021 14:18
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I always thought Imperialism's approach was ideal- there's a decent amount of economic management to be had, but it's all in one screen- the capital, where all industry happens(in both games, industry outside the capital is modeled by developed areas sending home intermediate/finished materials based on the raw resources in the province). A lot of the micro in Imperialism is using international trade- you don't really have to all that often in normal for anything but selling for cash, but on nigh-on impossible you need the injection of raw resources through international trade to keep up with the AI development cheats.
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Jul 5, 2021 14:24
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PerniciousKnid posted:Has any 4x game been improved by the inclusion of a list of buildings you have to build on planets? Just give my some sliders I can use to allocate production priorities, and a copy-paste key on the colony list. Yes. Buildings are fun. Buildings tell a story. See Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (bases, not planets, but the idea still applies). Sliders are efficient but boring.
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Jul 5, 2021 14:55
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doctorfrog posted:I just like the part where I scout planets and think about the stuff I’ll build there. Gimme a 1X. Kitfox88 posted:This, I like the explore and expand and exploit parts of 4x the most, and usually actively dislike the extermination part Have you tried Before We Leave? The closest thing to conflict is feeding the space whales that occasionally show up to eat a piece of your planets.
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Jul 5, 2021 15:07
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LLSix posted:Yes. Buildings are fun. Buildings tell a story. See Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (bases, not planets, but the idea still applies). The leader quotes for SMAC's buildings are fun, building a recycling centre 100 times isn't. A 4X building should be rare, impactful and involve a choice. If everytime I plop down a colony I then create the exact same production list of 4 or 5 buildings then that is just busy work.
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Jul 5, 2021 15:16
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Bug Squash posted:The leader quotes for SMAC's buildings are fun, building a recycling centre 100 times isn't. Agreed They make more sense when they're some distinct physical location that can be taken or destroyed, rather than just a generic numerical upgrade to an existing planet/city/whatever that could be abstracted without really losing anything A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Jul 5, 2021 |
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Jul 5, 2021 15:21
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the first master of orion was just sliders.
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Jul 5, 2021 15:35
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if someone released MOO1 but multiplayer today it'd probably dominate 4x gaming So naturally all that gets made are singleplayer-only MOO2 clones
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Jul 5, 2021 15:39
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