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serefin99
Apr 15, 2016

Mikoooon~
Your lovely shrine maiden fox wife, Tamamo no Mae, is here to help!

Yakuza 3

Enemies block CONSTANTLY. Even the dinky little random encounter enemies that go down in a single combo block CONSTANTLY. Even when you hit them from the sides or behind, there's about a 50% chance they'll suddenly turn around and start blocking you.

0 and Kiwami games also had enemies that would block constantly... except said enemies were bosses or otherwise exceptional, not just random trash that runs up to you on the street.

It just makes combat such a slog because instead of trading blows in epic duels to the death, I'm either backing someone into a corner and just repeating the same combo over and over again to get one or two hits in when their guard breaks, or I'm constantly blocking and sidestepping myself so I can, again, get one or two hits in when the enemy finally stops attacking.

And the obvious solution to the problem- just use a weapon so enemies CAN'T block my attacks- doesn't even work half the time because tons of enemies (again, including random street trash) spawn with their OWN weapons.

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Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Joey Freshwater posted:

Fictional guns aside I don’t know why they don’t just record the actual guns firing and use that sound

Because real guns don't sound the way movies have told us guns sound. The sound a shotgun makes in a movie has the sound of a cannon mixed into it.

PremiumSupport
Aug 17, 2015

Gort posted:

Because real guns don't sound the way movies have told us guns sound. The sound a shotgun makes in a movie has the sound of a cannon mixed into it.

Yeah, a real hunting rifle sounds more like a leather belt hitting a slab of rubber when it fires than a movie gunshot. If they used real sounds players would complain about it being fake.

haldolium
Oct 22, 2016



Real guns don't sound pretty, they're just extremely loud. I appreciate every game trying to make it feel punchy using sound fx tricks instead of making them "rEaLiStIc" and sound poo poo in the end.

I think Far Cry deliberately made guns a lot louder as everything else, but sure not really realistic.

rydiafan
Mar 17, 2009


Philippe posted:

I moved this to the other thread because I need to complain about a related thing.

The drat robot race track. Why is it just a raider hangout, and why can't I watch the robots run around and see who wins? Why isn't there a little bar there, where you can bet on the robots and drink a beer? But no, just shoot people.

The biggest drat disappointment in Fallout 4, I tell you what.

The same is true of the fighting arena. Bethesda Fallouts just don't give you anything interesting to do.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010

I'm belatedly having a go at Days Gone, and while it's overall surprisingly solid, there are a few oddities. For one, the radio conversations you have with NPCs are very oddly paced. There'd be completely radio silence for half an hour, then when I do a certain mission I'd suddenly get like five of them in one go. I'd leave a camp having just talked in person with an NPC only to have them call me via radio seconds after, telling me about some job having come in "while I was gone". Or I get two conversations with the same NPC back-to-back, even though their content implies there'd at least been some hours passed between them.

The voice direction is weird as well. Sometimes the protagonist just starts shouting into his radio for no good reason, as the surrounding area is perfectly quiet and he's not actually agitated or anything, just loud. At other times he's just sort of mumbling along something barely related to what's being talked about. I guess the intent is for it to feel like a more naturalistic approach to voice acting, rather than crisply reading off scripts, but at times it does kinda come off like the protagonist is just blitzed out of his mind and can't follow the conversation.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


While I'm enjoying the game as a whole I am kind of irritated at the new Ratchet & Clank having a thing at the bottom of the main menu trying to get me to upgrade to the "deluxe" version. I already spent $70 on the game, I don't want to be upsold on some deluxe version that I obviously didn't want in the first place.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

haldolium posted:

Real guns don't sound pretty, they're just extremely loud. I appreciate every game trying to make it feel punchy using sound fx tricks instead of making them "rEaLiStIc" and sound poo poo in the end.

I think Far Cry deliberately made guns a lot louder as everything else, but sure not really realistic.


Gort posted:

Because real guns don't sound the way movies have told us guns sound. The sound a shotgun makes in a movie has the sound of a cannon mixed into it.

I had a guy shoot himself in his back yard one house down and one house over and was sitting on my porch when I heard it. It honestly sounded like a tree branch had fallen and hit a house. It was loud but I didn't immediately associate it with gunfire.

Phigs
Jan 23, 2019

If you ever look at State of Decay 2 and wonder if it would be a good co-op experience; the answer is no. A definitive no. Firstly ou can't co-op with someone until you've both gotten past the introductory level. But that's not too bad. The real bad poo poo is the host gets to play the game and the person joining gets to tag along and fight and loot. And that's it. You can't progress the story or the colony. You get tethered to the host player and you get your own special loot containers at locations so you can bring loot back to your game if you wish without affecting the host's loot. And you get to keep the experience you earn. But otherwise you're standing around waiting for the host to go through the story stuff and get to the next quest so you can follow them again like a puppy just happy to be there.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Phigs posted:

If you ever look at State of Decay 2 and wonder if it would be a good co-op experience; the answer is no. A definitive no. Firstly ou can't co-op with someone until you've both gotten past the introductory level. But that's not too bad. The real bad poo poo is the host gets to play the game and the person joining gets to tag along and fight and loot. And that's it. You can't progress the story or the colony. You get tethered to the host player and you get your own special loot containers at locations so you can bring loot back to your game if you wish without affecting the host's loot. And you get to keep the experience you earn. But otherwise you're standing around waiting for the host to go through the story stuff and get to the next quest so you can follow them again like a puppy just happy to be there.

I picked this one up cheap and it seems like it should be fun but the novelty wears off pretty quick.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Phigs posted:

If you ever look at State of Decay 2 and wonder if it would be a good co-op experience; the answer is no. A definitive no. Firstly ou can't co-op with someone until you've both gotten past the introductory level. But that's not too bad. The real bad poo poo is the host gets to play the game and the person joining gets to tag along and fight and loot. And that's it. You can't progress the story or the colony. You get tethered to the host player and you get your own special loot containers at locations so you can bring loot back to your game if you wish without affecting the host's loot. And you get to keep the experience you earn. But otherwise you're standing around waiting for the host to go through the story stuff and get to the next quest so you can follow them again like a puppy just happy to be there.

All Co-ops Are Bastards

Triarii
Jun 14, 2003

Phigs posted:

If you ever look at State of Decay 2 and wonder if it would be a good co-op experience; the answer is no. A definitive no. Firstly ou can't co-op with someone until you've both gotten past the introductory level. But that's not too bad. The real bad poo poo is the host gets to play the game and the person joining gets to tag along and fight and loot. And that's it. You can't progress the story or the colony. You get tethered to the host player and you get your own special loot containers at locations so you can bring loot back to your game if you wish without affecting the host's loot. And you get to keep the experience you earn. But otherwise you're standing around waiting for the host to go through the story stuff and get to the next quest so you can follow them again like a puppy just happy to be there.

I'm really wondering how you do this sort of thing right. Like I played some co-op Terraria which goes in the other direction and lets every player freely wander and do their own thing, but it kind of felt like we weren't even playing together and it wasn't a great experience, and we got bored of it pretty quickly. I kind of wished there actually was something tethering us together (not physically, but more conceptually).

Fifty Farts
Dec 23, 2013

- Meticulously Researched
- Peer-reviewed

Philippe posted:

I moved this to the other thread because I need to complain about a related thing.

The drat robot race track. Why is it just a raider hangout, and why can't I watch the robots run around and see who wins? Why isn't there a little bar there, where you can bet on the robots and drink a beer? But no, just shoot people.

The biggest drat disappointment in Fallout 4, I tell you what.

I've complained about this before. Bethesda put some cool ideas in the world, but the payoff is always "... and then you just kill them all." The robot race track and the Combat Zone bar/arena are the two biggest offenders, but it's all over the place. Even the raider terminals fall into that. They're good little snippets of worldbuilding (the raiders are actually somewhat organized amongst themselves), but you have to murder your way into finding that out. There's never a non-hostile option and it sucks because it's Fallout, and there should be.

Phigs
Jan 23, 2019

Triarii posted:

I'm really wondering how you do this sort of thing right. Like I played some co-op Terraria which goes in the other direction and lets every player freely wander and do their own thing, but it kind of felt like we weren't even playing together and it wasn't a great experience, and we got bored of it pretty quickly. I kind of wished there actually was something tethering us together (not physically, but more conceptually).

I feel like Terraria is at a bit of a disadvantage because of 2D making it harder for players to meaningfully be in the same space.

7 days to die made us work together fairly well because clearing a point of interest together sped up the process, same for mining or questing, and of course defending on horde night. But we were almost never directly next to each other though. I think the trick is to make players want to be in the same area. Bring them to the same point and then let them go off within the area. They're then not getting in each other's way but feel like they're working together. The occasional "oh poo poo I need help" moments help.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

I tried multiplayer starbound and the game deleted our cool base twice and we just gave up

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

beats for junkies posted:

I've complained about this before. Bethesda put some cool ideas in the world, but the payoff is always "... and then you just kill them all." The robot race track and the Combat Zone bar/arena are the two biggest offenders, but it's all over the place. Even the raider terminals fall into that. They're good little snippets of worldbuilding (the raiders are actually somewhat organized amongst themselves), but you have to murder your way into finding that out. There's never a non-hostile option and it sucks because it's Fallout, and there should be.

Cut content suggests the Combat Zone was going to be more of a thing, but presumably something stopped them from going all-in on the concept.

The vibe I get is that a lot of that kind of stuff is from random devs going down little rabbit holes and then getting distracted, running into issues, or some other obstacle so they just slap some generic raiders in instead of spending loads of time trying to figure out how to make the robot races work without something exploding.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

I'm actually kinda glad Bethesda is taking so long on their games now. F4 feels really rushed in spots for such a huge release. I'm guessing the settlement stuff was a lot harder to get working than they thought it was gonna be

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Ys IX: Monstrum Nox

8 took place in a lush tropical island that held a lost civilization, and dinosaurs. 9 takes place in an incredibly grey city and many more grey dungeons. I'm not against a follow-up being shorter, but I wish the world here wasn't so small and bland.

Progression in 8 felt organic, whereby you had to find survivors who would then help you access new areas by clearing blocked paths. In 9 you're under an arbitrary curse where you can only unlock one district at a time in a set order. Exploring the city is cool with your navigational powers, but you can exhaust it of all content in chapter 6 of 9.

The game takes place in a country that was annexed by a foreign power. This foreign power was behind numerous plots that you foiled in prior games. Somehow they're not the villains this time and the story takes pains to present them as agreeable, despite their hand invading the place and the tragedies that arose afterwards. I believe the Cold Steel series by the same developer takes this trope further, by having every loving antagonist get off the hook.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?

BiggerBoat posted:

I had a guy shoot himself in his back yard one house down and one house over and was sitting on my porch when I heard it. It honestly sounded like a tree branch had fallen and hit a house. It was loud but I didn't immediately associate it with gunfire.

Heck of a nextdoor post :stonk:

Brain In A Jar
Apr 21, 2008

Taeke posted:

Yeah, I love DnD and RPGs and stuff so I was excited about pathfinder, and the tutorial adventure was fun gave me high hopes.

Then I got to the caves with the swarm enemies and couldn't do anything to progress. I looked the solution up online and it basically told me to either have the right spells and get lucky, or buy a shitton of flasks from the merchant and pray you brought enough. Even then, no matter how many you bought, if the rolls weren't in your favor you could still be hosed.

I didn't have the right spells and had thought that 10 of those flasks might be useful when I saw them at the shop, but apparently that wasn't nearly enough.

Swarms in 3.5 were already absolutely horrendous bullshit where they occupied the square you were standing in, and received reduced damage unless you hit them with a spell or an impromptu AOE built out of rolling a horseshit throwing roll with directional modifiers (1d8 determines where your bottle goes!), and if you were lucky that was auto-igniting alchemist fire. If you threw oil, then congratulations, you also get roll to light the oil on fire.

This was at the peak of caster supremacy and non-casters playing a miserable game of 'mother may I?' with the DM, and I would not be surprised in the slightest if Pathfinder took these rules and made them more punishing to non-caster players under the guise of "verisimilitude" (aka I, a physically incompetent nerd, can't throw a object to hit a target, so naturally any human or supernatural being at peak physical performance should also struggle with this physical task).

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Brain In A Jar posted:

Swarms in 3.5 were already absolutely horrendous bullshit where they occupied the square you were standing in, and received reduced damage unless you hit them with a spell or an impromptu AOE built out of rolling a horseshit throwing roll with directional modifiers (1d8 determines where your bottle goes!), and if you were lucky that was auto-igniting alchemist fire. If you threw oil, then congratulations, you also get roll to light the oil on fire.

This was at the peak of caster supremacy and non-casters playing a miserable game of 'mother may I?' with the DM, and I would not be surprised in the slightest if Pathfinder took these rules and made them more punishing to non-caster players under the guise of "verisimilitude" (aka I, a physically incompetent nerd, can't throw a object to hit a target, so naturally any human or supernatural being at peak physical performance should also struggle with this physical task).

Just to add on to this, in pathfinder both the tabletop and the video game you will almost never see a swarm at any point past the early game before anyone, except occasionally wizards, have any means to deal with them. Pretty much the instant more than one or two classes have reasonable access to AOE, or even martial classes get more tools to deal with them pretty much every adventure path and DM just drops them wholesale because they actually kind of suck as enemies and their only saving grace is the fact that while swarms of tiny creatures, like say chihuahuas, take half damage from all weapon attacks and thus are a pain in the rear end to fight swarms of diminutive or fine creatures are immune to all weapon damage so facing things like a single swarm of spiders or mosquitos can legitimately cause a party wipe if the the party didn't get given a bunch of fire bombs and the wizard hadn't put fireball in both of their spell slots. And they'll need them both because swarms take half damage from AOE spells and effects (like fire bombs), because gently caress you. You know, assuming they can make the DC20 caster check because swarms have a distraction ability that just kind of imposes that on any casting in the swarm - and possibly another DC20 will save if your spell, or any ability, requires a concentration check. We've created a creature that can literally only be hurt by this one specific thing then made it incredibly resistant to this one specific thing and it's often placed solely to gently caress with sub level five parties because guess what; swarms don't actually make attacks. They just do damage to anything in the swarm every turn and there's nothing you can do about it, no rolls to avoid or take half on that poo poo unless you're a ghost, because they're non-magical attacks (usually) and that often means they can't hit non-corporeal attacks and can't hit through damage resistance but that hardly matters when they're set solely to ruin a baby adventuring party. After all, mid to late parties will be able to shrug off a swarm's damage without much issue; they do their damage based on their hit die and it caps out at 5d6 unless the DM has some fun with the numbers. But 1d6, the weakest damage a basic swarm can do, can be devastating for low level player characters given that the beefiest classes get a d10 or d12 of health and the weakest get a d6 a swarm can potentially one shot a level one character even considering it can't crit, and that's without factoring in the incredibly high likelihood that it has added poison or bleed (or blood drain) added on to its attacks as most creatures likely to be swarms such as spiders and various irritating insects tend to have that sort of bullshit.

Long story short: gently caress swarms they're badly designed and even more badly implemented in a game system full of weird and bad ideas.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Nuebot posted:

They just do damage to anything in the swarm every turn and there's nothing you can do about it, no rolls to avoid or take half on that poo poo unless you're a ghost,

I don't see the problem, after losing the first swarm encounter you unlock a powerful template that trivializes future ones.


IIRC the pathfinder game has a mix of spider swarms and big-rear end spiders as well, and the NPC gives you a few firebombs to kill 'the spiders', so odds are you'll waste a lot of them on the big nonswarm spiders.

liquidypoo
Aug 23, 2006

Chew on that... you overgrown son of a bitch.

I recently finished up a playthrough of Legend of Dragoon, and for as much as I want to like that game, it's definitely plagued with its fair share of problems. The biggest, most obvious problem definitely comes from the limited inventory. I get that RPGs sometimes limit the amount of inventory space you have, but Legend of Dragoon only gives you 32 spaces to work with, and then starts giving you items that aren't expended when used, so if you want to hold onto those your max inventory starts to look more like a max of 25 items. Some of them are incredibly useful, like blocking physical attacks on one character for three turns, or blocking an enemy's next three turns (provided they aren't a boss, but that's a separate gripe). Add to this that the game just loves to dump attack items on you via treasure chests, and on rare occasion, item drops from battles, suddenly you're constantly opening the menu to throw something away so you can open this drat treasure chest in the hopes that it's a healing item or something useful instead of another attack item. By the way, the game's a PS1 era RPG that decided to give the menu its own music track, so loading up your menu actually takes time. You gotta do that constantly, or just throw away all your attack items in bulk, or ignore treasure chests.

Almost every party member has a set of combo attacks to choose from to use as their physical attack in battles. I suppose I can understand why you have to set one instead of being able to choose which combo to use while in combat, but I would much rather be able to do the latter. The problem I have here is the one character who uses a bow and arrow, and thus doesn't get combo attacks. Nevermind the fact they coulda just farted out some super simple ideas to give her something, she just straight up doesn't get to engage with one of the game's major mechanics. The funny thing about this is anybody playing RPGs is going to be metagaming, right? So why use a character who doesn't have the extra thing to level up and progress in?

Speaking of not using characters until they can make meta progress, one character doesn't get his titular dragoon powers through story progress. I mean, yeah, if the game sees you didn't get him his special dragoon stone, it'll just dump it on him in the final dungeon of the game, but that's not great. If you want to actually use the poor guy, you have to take a side detour all the way down to an early game town, where some random merchant just has it for reasons beyond my understanding. To my recollection, you can do this the instant you recruit the guy, but nothing points you away from the critical path at all. Unless you have precognition, you'll just continue along the plot, unaware that some random dingus a third of the map away has a thing you really want.

My last legitimate gripe is that Legend of Dragoon is one of those RPGs where status effects are useless because they don't work on bosses. This includes the repeat use item I mentioned earlier that prevents enemies from taking their next three turns. Even if you can use them against regular encounters, their implementation as a tool for the player to use is sketchy at best. They're usually either in the form of consumable attack items, or attached to weapons as a chance to be inflicted on attack. To make matters worse, the implementation of the confusion status effect is severely weighted against the player in all forms. This is anecdotal, yes, but every instance I managed to confuse an enemy monster, they either ran away (no XP gain as far as I remember) or behaved as if they didn't have the confusion effect. If any of my party members got confused? Well, someone on my team is eating poo poo, because they certainly never managed to randomly attack the enemy anyway.

To wrap up, an illegitimate gripe :v:. The game has got to have a memory leak or something, because there are constant soft locks where the game just refuses to load a room and hangs on a black screen. The solution is to load your hard save rather than your emulator's save state. So, okay, you gotta save early save often; it's a PS1 game and that's how it'd be played legit anyway, no big deal. Well, I finished the game on a soft lock. Last save point of the game, I close the emulator and load the hard save and kill off the final boss, watch some post-fight cutscenes, and then, uh, black screen. Nothin'. The game couldn't load the credits sequence, even after I'd done everything I could to prevent the memory leak issue.

Taeke
Feb 2, 2010


Tunicate posted:

I don't see the problem, after losing the first swarm encounter you unlock a powerful template that trivializes future ones.


IIRC the pathfinder game has a mix of spider swarms and big-rear end spiders as well, and the NPC gives you a few firebombs to kill 'the spiders', so odds are you'll waste a lot of them on the big nonswarm spiders.

He literally gives you less firebombs than there are spider swarms, lol, and iirc you'd need on average like 3 or 4 of them to kill a single swarm. Also I seem to remember (but maybe that's the frustration playing tricks on my memory) you could only use them from your quick item slots, which you couldn't add to in combat. So you had to fill you entire party's quick slots with firebombs and if they weren't enough because of lovely rolls you were hosed.

How that encounter ever got through playtesting is beyond me. I seem to remember the game being okay after that bit, though, but it couldn't hold my interest for very long.

Still chasing that high from playing Baldur's Gate 2 for the first time.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

If it were a 90s jrpg i'd have blamed that situation on Working Designs changing it for the rental market.

NoEyedSquareGuy
Mar 16, 2009

Just because Liquor's dead, doesn't mean you can just roll this bitch all over town with "The Freedoms."

liquidypoo posted:

Speaking of not using characters until they can make meta progress, one character doesn't get his titular dragoon powers through story progress. I mean, yeah, if the game sees you didn't get him his special dragoon stone, it'll just dump it on him in the final dungeon of the game, but that's not great. If you want to actually use the poor guy, you have to take a side detour all the way down to an early game town, where some random merchant just has it for reasons beyond my understanding. To my recollection, you can do this the instant you recruit the guy, but nothing points you away from the critical path at all. Unless you have precognition, you'll just continue along the plot, unaware that some random dingus a third of the map away has a thing you really want.

He also has probably the worst dragoon in the game, to the point that you might as well not bother getting it. There's a reason to go back to that city since it has a shop selling the best equipment in the entire game, but it's completely out of the way of the main story path and all the best items cost 10,000 coins so you wouldn't be able to buy any of them until late game anyway. This is still a PS1 RPG so you have to swap back to disk 1 to actually go there.

I've played LoD plenty of times and one of the biggest issues is that for being the main focus of the story, dragoons aren't really that useful. They have flashy attacks and spells, but you're generally better off just using your normal attacks assuming you can complete the additions consistently. Each character (except the bow and arrow character you mentioned) gets a final addition after you've mastered all their other attacks which will usually do more damage than even the ultimate dragon summoning attacks you get at Dragoon level 5 which eat up all of your mana to cast. Since you have to master all your other additions before getting the final one, you're actively disincentivized from using your dragoons since time spent using dragoon attacks is time not spent mastering those additions. Instead of dragoon transformations being like a limit break or something, I ended up using them mostly for utility reasons, like Albert's spell that casts damage reduction on the whole party or on the rare occasion I specifically needed a spell to do AOE damage like the ghost ship boss where the soldiers start reviving unless you kill them all at once. The innate damage reduction of being in dragoon form is kind of canceled out by not being able to guard or use items, and some of the hardest bosses towards the end of the game even punish you for transforming to dragoon by making you take extra damage while dealing less.

Also spell item damage being dependent on how hard you can button mash is just bad.

jjack229
Feb 14, 2008
Articulate your needs. I'm here to listen.

NoEyedSquareGuy posted:

Also spell item damage being dependent on how hard you can button mash is just bad.

I am not all familiar with this game, but this sounds like a really bad game mechanic.

liquidypoo
Aug 23, 2006

Chew on that... you overgrown son of a bitch.

NoEyedSquareGuy posted:

He also has probably the worst dragoon in the game, to the point that you might as well not bother getting it. There's a reason to go back to that city since it has a shop selling the best equipment in the entire game, but it's completely out of the way of the main story path and all the best items cost 10,000 coins so you wouldn't be able to buy any of them until late game anyway. This is still a PS1 RPG so you have to swap back to disk 1 to actually go there.

I've played LoD plenty of times and one of the biggest issues is that for being the main focus of the story, dragoons aren't really that useful. They have flashy attacks and spells, but you're generally better off just using your normal attacks assuming you can complete the additions consistently. Each character (except the bow and arrow character you mentioned) gets a final addition after you've mastered all their other attacks which will usually do more damage than even the ultimate dragon summoning attacks you get at Dragoon level 5 which eat up all of your mana to cast. Since you have to master all your other additions before getting the final one, you're actively disincentivized from using your dragoons since time spent using dragoon attacks is time not spent mastering those additions. Instead of dragoon transformations being like a limit break or something, I ended up using them mostly for utility reasons, like Albert's spell that casts damage reduction on the whole party or on the rare occasion I specifically needed a spell to do AOE damage like the ghost ship boss where the soldiers start reviving unless you kill them all at once. The innate damage reduction of being in dragoon form is kind of canceled out by not being able to guard or use items, and some of the hardest bosses towards the end of the game even punish you for transforming to dragoon by making you take extra damage while dealing less.

Also spell item damage being dependent on how hard you can button mash is just bad.

Oh gosh all of this just reminded me of even more gripes! So yeah, the default dragoon attack's timing is super tight and I never got a perfect on it intentionally. It's because the worst dragoon happens to have a shorter sequence for the QTE that I actually perfected his consistently. Everybody else? Oof, never gonna hit that 5th press at the right time unless it was by accident. Maybe it's some of that weird screen delay stuff that comes from post-CRT TVs, but I could only ever consistently get the 4th hit and always miss the last one.

Honestly I kinda liked being able to drop into dragoon form as a utility, but you're absolutely right that it completely lacks the punch the narrative assigns to it. What it really needed was a third option: drop out of dragoon form early. poo poo, make it waste a turn if it needs to be a risk/reward thing, but being locked into it once you transform wasn't great. And the punishment for going dragoon form? Fuckin' big oof when you remember that the final boss has that mechanic, and this is the only fight you get to try out the really silly divine dragoon stone. I mean, here's a stupid and fun thing the player is absolutely going to try out as soon as they can, but once you hit like the third phase of the fight (out of, what, five phases?) you're better off sticking to non-dragoon form.

Somethin' I forgot to complain about regarding the combos: enemies can sometimes counter during the QTE sequence, and that's fine in theory. On paper I really don't mind the concept of making the player pay attention and hit a different button to not fail. But the way they implemented it is just awful. It's not a random spot in the middle of combos; it's a preset one or two places a counter could overlap, and they managed to choose a lot of unfair spots to do it. Does the combo have you press X 3 times in rapid succession? Chances are the counter comes up on the second one and you have to know it's coming ahead of time. Does it come up on a hit with a slow windup? Well then instead of having the prompt be red from the get-go, it turns red right as you're already on your way to pressing X instead of O. There are some fair timings, but seeing the bad ones come up so often made me hate it. Especially the ones that come up during rapid fire button presses, since successfully beating the counter introduces a slowdown and completely fucks up your rhythm for the rest of the combo, if you even manage to correctly time the next immediate hit.

Hahaha, man, it sucks I have so much to complain about in Legend of Dragoon cause I really do like the game, honest!

jjack229 posted:

I am not all familiar with this game, but this sounds like a really bad game mechanic.

Sitting down and really thinking about it, yeah it super sucks. I never used the attack item spells too often because using those means not making meta progress and hahaha it's an RPG, so I didn't run into that too much. The stronger late game item spells drop it in favor of fixed damage, but I'm pretty sure it's based off of your character's magic attack stat, so you still have to pay attention to who is tossing the item out. One exception: there's an endgame sequence that leads to you getting a non-elemental repeat use item spell if you do everything right, and that one falls back to the button mash mechanic. It's a thing you have to save scum to make sure you even get, cause if you gently caress up the small story bits, you get it as a consumable instead of the repeat use version. It's poorly thought out, at best.

liquidypoo has a new favorite as of 20:29 on Jul 9, 2021

rydiafan
Mar 17, 2009


Phigs posted:

If you ever look at State of Decay 2 and wonder if it would be a good co-op experience; the answer is no. A definitive no. Firstly ou can't co-op with someone until you've both gotten past the introductory level. But that's not too bad. The real bad poo poo is the host gets to play the game and the person joining gets to tag along and fight and loot. And that's it. You can't progress the story or the colony. You get tethered to the host player and you get your own special loot containers at locations so you can bring loot back to your game if you wish without affecting the host's loot. And you get to keep the experience you earn. But otherwise you're standing around waiting for the host to go through the story stuff and get to the next quest so you can follow them again like a puppy just happy to be there.

I find this interesting because my group didn't run into this issue. The host would run low on missions right around the same time the hostees would hit max multiplayer bonus, so we'd just rotate who hosted.

Sunswipe
Feb 5, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
It's not exactly dragging the game down for me, but I do find it funny when State of Decay 2 generates a fetch quest and puts the quest giver in the same building as what they want. Am I taking advantage of someone by giving them their own food, or had they genuinely not looked around the building they live in?

Suleman
Sep 4, 2011

Tunicate posted:

I don't see the problem, after losing the first swarm encounter you unlock a powerful template that trivializes future ones.


IIRC the pathfinder game has a mix of spider swarms and big-rear end spiders as well, and the NPC gives you a few firebombs to kill 'the spiders', so odds are you'll waste a lot of them on the big nonswarm spiders.

The spider swarms are annoying, but specifically the Mandragora Swarms in the late game are a huge pain because in addition to dealing very minor damage, they drain 1-4 Strength on every attack and they always hit and are programmed to move through as many targets as they can, meaning that they can and they will cause severe stat drain to all of your characters.
At that stage, I'm usually able to burst one or two of the swarms down before they get close to the party, even through their damage resistance, but it's not enough, they're just a major hassle.

There's also IIRC no way to gain immunity to their stat drain, it's not the same as the undead enemies' version. Maybe some sort of poison immunity? I don't remember there being any way to avoid it.

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

Sunswipe posted:

It's not exactly dragging the game down for me, but I do find it funny when State of Decay 2 generates a fetch quest and puts the quest giver in the same building as what they want. Am I taking advantage of someone by giving them their own food, or had they genuinely not looked around the building they live in?

Quest: Hey pass me a beer wouldja

U.T. Raptor
May 11, 2010

Are you a pack of imbeciles!?

Also the addition system in LoD is terrible, I don't want to do a QTE every time I attack something. I don't think I ever used further than the second or third one for everyone because beyond that the timing just gets bullshit (and some of them don't even take that long, Haschel).

NoEyedSquareGuy
Mar 16, 2009

Just because Liquor's dead, doesn't mean you can just roll this bitch all over town with "The Freedoms."

liquidypoo posted:

Somethin' I forgot to complain about regarding the combos: enemies can sometimes counter during the QTE sequence, and that's fine in theory. On paper I really don't mind the concept of making the player pay attention and hit a different button to not fail. But the way they implemented it is just awful. It's not a random spot in the middle of combos; it's a preset one or two places a counter could overlap, and they managed to choose a lot of unfair spots to do it. Does the combo have you press X 3 times in rapid succession? Chances are the counter comes up on the second one and you have to know it's coming ahead of time. Does it come up on a hit with a slow windup? Well then instead of having the prompt be red from the get-go, it turns red right as you're already on your way to pressing X instead of O. There are some fair timings, but seeing the bad ones come up so often made me hate it. Especially the ones that come up during rapid fire button presses, since successfully beating the counter introduces a slowdown and completely fucks up your rhythm for the rest of the combo, if you even manage to correctly time the next immediate hit.

Worst timing is on Albert's final addition and you basically have to just guess whether it will be a counter or not and choose to hit X or O ahead of time. I always have him in my party since he does insane damage and has the most useful dragoon spell but his final addition makes me paranoid every time I use it because of that quirk. Most of the counter timings are fair but that one always stood out to me. I'll give them credit for not allowing any counters in the middle of Dart's Madness Hero.

quote:

Hahaha, man, it sucks I have so much to complain about in Legend of Dragoon cause I really do like the game, honest!

Yeah it's still one of my favorite RPGs and one of the best games overall on the PS1, but a game as expansive LoD is also going to have a lot more room for poorly thought out mechanics to make their way in. A few more gripes in no particular order:

- The special enemies you run into occasionally who have like 5 HP but all your attacks miss at about a 90% rate, do 1 damage if you hit, and the enemies have absurd agility levels so the battles are more often than not comprised of the battle starting, the enemy using an instakill attack on one of your party members, then immediately running away before you can perform a single action. There are ways to kill them but they're generally a waste of time.

- There are 50 stardust in the game, a secret item which unlocks extremely powerful equipment every 10 stardust from a special vendor and you have to collect all 50 to unlock the most difficult secret boss in the game. The environments take place in the common PS1 RPG style where you have 3D models moving over a flat image of a cityscape or whatever. The game has fantastic graphics for the PS1 but this style doesn't really give you much indication of what is or is not interactable so you would never have any way of knowing where stardust is besides looking at a guide or running around mashing X at every location in a city hoping to find it by luck.

- That ultimate secret boss is kind of dumb. His magic stat is so high that any of his attacks will usually either one-shot your entire party or bring them down to red health, requiring you to spend a turn using healing or revival items, then he'll do the same thing again next turn and either kill you or make you heal again. The only good way I found to beat him is to go to that disk 1 city mentioned earlier and spend 10,000 coins on a helmet called the Legend Casque, which has a magic defense stat so high that it effectively makes you immune to it. You'll probably only be able to afford one, maybe two if you fight him right before passing the point of no return before the final dungeon so the whole fight is spent with two of your party members dead while the one with the Legend Casque whittles him down as all his spells either miss or do trivial damage.

- Bad sound syncing in the FMV sequences to the point that speech can be off by a full second or more. Doesn't appear to be an issue of translation from Japanese to English, the speech just isn't aligned correctly.

liquidypoo
Aug 23, 2006

Chew on that... you overgrown son of a bitch.

NoEyedSquareGuy posted:

- There are 50 stardust in the game, a secret item which unlocks extremely powerful equipment every 10 stardust from a special vendor and you have to collect all 50 to unlock the most difficult secret boss in the game. The environments take place in the common PS1 RPG style where you have 3D models moving over a flat image of a cityscape or whatever. The game has fantastic graphics for the PS1 but this style doesn't really give you much indication of what is or is not interactable so you would never have any way of knowing where stardust is besides looking at a guide or running around mashing X at every location in a city hoping to find it by luck.

- That ultimate secret boss is kind of dumb. His magic stat is so high that any of his attacks will usually either one-shot your entire party or bring them down to red health, requiring you to spend a turn using healing or revival items, then he'll do the same thing again next turn and either kill you or make you heal again. The only good way I found to beat him is to go to that disk 1 city mentioned earlier and spend 10,000 coins on a helmet called the Legend Casque, which has a magic defense stat so high that it effectively makes you immune to it. You'll probably only be able to afford one, maybe two if you fight him right before passing the point of no return before the final dungeon so the whole fight is spent with two of your party members dead while the one with the Legend Casque whittles him down as all his spells either miss or do trivial damage.

poo poo, I had a fanwiki open for the entirety of the game until I got the 50th stardust. An extra detail about the secret boss: dude takes like three turns in a row more often than not! I feel like the Legend Casques exist because of him, not to make the fight less difficult.

U.T. Raptor posted:

Also the addition system in LoD is terrible, I don't want to do a QTE every time I attack something. I don't think I ever used further than the second or third one for everyone because beyond that the timing just gets bullshit (and some of them don't even take that long, Haschel).

Totally worth it for all the voice acting though. Okay, maybe we could've had the special move name yelling without QTEs, but getting the timing right and hearing Albert go "GUST OF WIND DANCE" is great

liquidypoo has a new favorite as of 22:58 on Jul 9, 2021

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


I dusted off the WiiU and picked the Metroid Prime Trilogy up

I like scanning but the fact things can be missed if you don't get them is still a mechanic I don't like

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Ys 9 has a quest that is easily missed because it's only available in one chapter. It takes place in a far-off optional area that you have to grind through monsters to unlock. There's no practical reason as to why the quest fails if you don't clairvoyantly go out of your way to do it at the time, especially when you have far more pressing poo poo to deal with.

Nier Automata had an excellent solution for quests that fail because of how strongly they tie in with the main plot. Just give the player a chapter-select that let's you freely go to any point in the story while keeping your progress.

Stexils
Jun 5, 2008

Nuebot posted:

their only saving grace is the fact that while swarms of tiny creatures, like say chihuahuas, take half damage from all weapon attacks and thus are a pain in the rear end to fight

adventure module: A Terrible Day At The Dog Park (levels 1-4) (licensed by disney)

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

IIRC there was a 3e exploit where you could become a wereswarm, since swarms of animals were still animals.

"I have something horrible to confess. I am a werewolves."

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Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Tunicate posted:

I don't see the problem, after losing the first swarm encounter you unlock a powerful template that trivializes future ones.


IIRC the pathfinder game has a mix of spider swarms and big-rear end spiders as well, and the NPC gives you a few firebombs to kill 'the spiders', so odds are you'll waste a lot of them on the big nonswarm spiders.

Swarms are infinitely easier in the video game than the tabletop, yes. But the big problem with them not making attack rolls is that it makes almost every form of damage mitigation pointless which can be incredibly lethal. They're not rolling against your AC so big tanky beef walls and speedy dodgy dex rogues alike take that damage no matter what. Most buffs and debuffs, especially the low level ones, affect AC and attack rolls, rather than providing DR or reduce enemy damage so if you're up against a swarm there just isn't really anything you can do but hope you can pump out enough AOE damage to kill them before they pump out enough damage to kill you. Which honestly can literally just come down to how well they roll since, as I mentioned, a swarm that rolls max damage has the potential to one shot a level one caster. Two or more swarms focusing on one character can basically mean instant death for that character at times and you can't do much about it, they just do that damage. And even if you're high enough to tank the damage there's a good chance their damage will come with a poison, a bleed, or some delicious strength or con damage. Which, for the record, I don't think kills you in the video game either. In the tabletop at least being reduced to enough negative constitution will kill you, so once again if you're a frail wizard or something being drained by a swarm or two you're about to get turbo hosed and there isn't much you can do to stop it.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that swarms also do "swarm" damage so even if you get DR, most forms of DR is useless because they don't do traditional damage.

Stexils posted:

adventure module: A Terrible Day At The Dog Park (levels 1-4) (licensed by disney)

There's a spell called "Release the Hounds" and its effect is literally just listed as "one pack of canines". You summon a dog swarm on people.

Len posted:

I dusted off the WiiU and picked the Metroid Prime Trilogy up

I like scanning but the fact things can be missed if you don't get them is still a mechanic I don't like

And the trilogy version is the like, post-patch version that generally has more leeway for all of that too and it's still a pain in the rear end. At least the ice shriekbats aren't literally limited to a single hallway anymore. :shepface:

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