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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:On the opposite side of the coin is pre-DLC beastmen where you are actively punished harshly for anything you do or having events force harsh negatives on you you can't refuse and everyone recommends against playing the beastman campaign because it is a unfun slog of the order factions sending dozens of armies after your lonesome armies and trying to sack a city to stop beast-bankruptcy every few turns while the AI instantly resettles them. yeah that sucks as well, i'm glad they're revamping the beastmen but the power creep is still growing exponentially and i think this is a bad move. i think it goes back to the first wood elf DLC since a lot of players complained because you couldn't just park your bows at broadside range and blast everything away. since then a majority of new factions seem insanely powerful.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:04
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https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/of27rs/legendoftotalwar_just_fought_27_battles_in_1_turn/ So apparently this is a thing that can happen (if you're an uber-cheese like this dude). Level 32 Taurox on turn 11. Welp.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:04
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Yeah there is some power creep happening, but I think they realize it sells, consider how much everyone recommends clan skyre vs the hardmode skink counterpart.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:06
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Yeah not a fan of this level of busted mechanics. I'll pass.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:07
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Ravenfood posted:Sure, there is a limit to just "click autoresolve and win every campaign" but I'm definitely not opposed to there being some kind of variation within races to make them easier/harder. I'm really curious what the Belegar campaign looks like with the grudge rework because the combination of +50% upkeep AND a punishing grudge made that campaign kind of hard but in a potentially fun way. I suspect this will be better post-change. Vagabong posted:I agree with you, but I wouldn't take too much into account from LegendofTW's gameplay; the dudes got a reputation for breaking the game over his knee with cheese, and from what I heard from the run on turn video he was fighting so many battles in a single turn that it was causing the U.I to break. I wouldn't expect Taurox's mechanics to be so broken in normal gameplay. i'm with you both - to me the rework just seems to swing wildly in the OP direction but let's wait and see.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:12
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Yeah Legend is very good at the game in a way most people would struggle to keep up with and he leverages every mechanic to his benefit in a way many people wouldn't be able to or be bothered to. I feel like most people would suffer more natural combat attrition from battles and autoresolves (I imagine Legend didn't do many if any autoresolves because of said damage and the fact he plays on the highest difficulty) and have to pause their blood-lusting rage at some point to recover. We're talking about a guy who did a stream based solely around summoning about 51 Gotreks and using pretty much only them in battle all over the place.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:14
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If you ever want a campaign that is free of too much content bloat and is a punishing challenge, feel free to play the lizardman counterpart of any DLC, I'm not sure I've even heard anything about the lizardman half yet. Taurox getting all those levels early is because he has a rampage mechanic where winning a battle gets you more movement and I think replenishment, letting you chase down more fights into a chain. I like what they are doing with beastmen so far with the campaign mechanics however, huge garrison Herdstones that prevent AI settling ruins and makes the surrounding area into a hunting ground and 0 upkeep armies with unit caps you can raise besides just making buildings.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:16
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He's playing the faction exactly as intended, just in the most grognard possible way. It's fine lol You can just play the other 3 beastmen dudes who don't have that mechanic, or simply not use it.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:25
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The Lizardmen campaign looks like fun and it has a mechanic similar to the world tree (or whatever it is called) system that will allow you to mess around with various parts of the map and not get bog downed in one corner.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:31
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It's just the lu bu mechanic right? So you still have to fight as many battles as you would to level up normally it's just you can fight multiple battles per turn
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Jul 7, 2021 17:36
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With Warhammer 2 every DLC has been somewhat overpowered and broken, only for CA to then tone the campaign done with the next patch.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:36
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Also before they get changed I'll make one last defence of the beastmen campaign currently. Ambush attack, hidden encampments, no infighting, start with two armies, super fast growth for nowadays if you spec for it, blender line infantry with easily accessible buffs, minotaurs, gorebulls. I don't understand why people think it's a hard campaign, you have to survive paycheck to paycheck like all hordes but unlike other hordes if you get in trouble you can turn invisible on the map. Once you've got a gorebull you're off to the races and minotaurs and cygors are top units imo E: The dilemmas do suck a bit but are sometimes really useful. If in doubt take the replenishment one imo, you can usually take the growth hit. When they max out they can be game changing at the right time though. Full replenishment in any stance for 2 turns is crazy good Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jul 7, 2021 |
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Jul 7, 2021 17:40
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They are the ugliest faction by miles though
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Jul 7, 2021 17:44
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Communist Thoughts posted:They are the ugliest faction by miles though Strong stance in a world where Dwarves exist.
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Jul 7, 2021 18:00
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TheLastRoboKy posted:Yeah Legend is very good at the game in a way most people would struggle to keep up with and he leverages every mechanic to his benefit in a way many people wouldn't be able to or be bothered to. I feel like most people would suffer more natural combat attrition from battles and autoresolves (I imagine Legend didn't do many if any autoresolves because of said damage and the fact he plays on the highest difficulty) and have to pause their blood-lusting rage at some point to recover. We're talking about a guy who did a stream based solely around summoning about 51 Gotreks and using pretty much only them in battle all over the place. Isn't he the one that advocates using a fast-moving flying lord to simply dodge all of the enemy ranged fire and waste all of their ammo before actually starting any kind of battle?
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Jul 7, 2021 18:02
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:If you ever want a campaign that is free of too much content bloat and is a punishing challenge, feel free to play the lizardman counterpart of any DLC, I'm not sure I've even heard anything about the lizardman half yet. It was embargoed, people are covering it now. It actually looks pretty cool but I only just started watching a stream. It doesn't fix the older Lizardmen campaign mechanics but nothing short of a revamp will. They're not even "bad", just sort of boring compared to newer factions.
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Jul 7, 2021 18:06
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It's Legend, the grogiest of grognards. Most people don't have the patience to play the way he does, let alone the skill.
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Jul 7, 2021 18:18
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Legend made a video recently about the non Total War games he likes where he revealed that he's spent over a thousand hours on a single game of Factoria. IIRC be only stopped because he had so much stuff stored that it caused the game to break.
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Jul 7, 2021 18:24
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Ravenfood posted:Isn't he the one that advocates using a fast-moving flying lord to simply dodge all of the enemy ranged fire and waste all of their ammo before actually starting any kind of battle? i've never done anything like that and the OP factions still make the game really easy.
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Jul 7, 2021 18:26
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Yeah there is some power creep happening, but I think they realize it sells, consider how much everyone recommends clan skyre vs the hardmode skink counterpart. This is mostly because Tehenhauin's mechanics are boring and half-baked(which is, unfortunately, a common problem with Lizardman DLC campaigns, apparently). All of the rewards for sacrifices are extremely incremental and hard to notice, and when you complete your big campaign objective, your reward is a bound spell that is less impressive in effect than a Wind of Death and has one charge per battle. Skryre has enough wild stuff going on that it would still be fun to play even if it wasn't effectively a cheat code in faction form. I fuckin love skinks and I enjoy Tehenhauin's campaign because of it but even I have only bothered to play through it once because it's just not that interesting.
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Jul 7, 2021 18:32
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he just has the patience to exploit the AI to maximum effect. Its a little boring imo when he flies back and forth for five minutes until the enemy gunners all run out of bullets or whatever. If you can do that sort of thing and keep casualties to a minimum then yeah Taurox is perfectly suited to exploit that like crazy. E: Tehenhuain is incredibly powerful thanks to his sacrifices actually. I posted about this a few times last month. Factionwide free buildings is ridiculous.
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Jul 7, 2021 18:42
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Kanos posted:and when you complete your big campaign objective, your reward is a bound spell that is less impressive in effect than a Wind of Death and has one charge per battle. Boy are you gonna be miffed when you see the reward for the FLC dwarf guy. Its exactly that, and you didn't have to pay for him to get it.
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Jul 7, 2021 18:43
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:E: Tehenhuain is incredibly powerful thanks to his sacrifices actually. I posted about this a few times last month. Factionwide free buildings is ridiculous. Doesn’t that require getting lucky at what amounts to a follower slot machine? That’s not fun or interesting.
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Jul 7, 2021 18:49
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The best ones are Gor-rok and Tic Tac Toe who are free
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Jul 7, 2021 18:50
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There are some very odd takes in the last couple pages here. If you don't like exploiting the games mechanics to their maximum potential, just play the mechanics as intended. It is a giant game with an insane amount of systems and no game this large or complex is perfectly balanced. The Taurox strat isn't even that OP, he did have to win EVERY battle and plan out his moves precisely AND he got incredibly lucky with some of the positioning of enemy armies he stumbled on AND at least part of the strategy is potentially unintended (he does a lot of campaign stance dancing to maximize movement where different stances interact with the momentum system in different ways - its probably an edge case that CA didn't catch). Vampire Counts are one of the strongest meta factions in the game because skeleton + winds of death is hilariously OP, but its boring and I don't play it that way because it isn't interesting. Just...don't exploit. Make your sillyman armies to smash into their sillyman armies the way you like.
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Jul 7, 2021 18:52
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TaintedBalance posted:There are some very odd takes in the last couple pages here. If you don't like exploiting the games mechanics to their maximum potential, just play the mechanics as intended. It is a giant game with an insane amount of systems and no game this large or complex is perfectly balanced. Vampire Count skeleton swarm was fun for awhile at the start, then I transitioned to more standard VC armies, because that was more fun. Also every army got a Mortis Engine, because they look cool even if they kind of suck. E: poo poo, you could even just give rampages a one-turn cooldown and that would "solve" this issue. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Jul 7, 2021 |
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Jul 7, 2021 18:58
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He also got very lucky with drops, getting regen and ward save. Most people aren't going to win 20+ battles in a single turn even if they tried. It's not like this was some easy cheat button that simply can't be ignored. Who cares about singleplayer balance anyway? It's never been balanced, that's what makes it fun. Every faction has something cool and sort of OP they bring to the table. Ok except Chaos.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:06
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TaintedBalance posted:There are some very odd takes in the last couple pages here. If you don't like exploiting the games mechanics to their maximum potential, just play the mechanics as intended. It is a giant game with an insane amount of systems and no game this large or complex is perfectly balanced. Yeah, people are making it seem like Taurox is busted when in reality Legend is excellent at breaking combat AI. Shout out to him for being ridiculous but it's making me laugh that people think the game needs to be balanced around Legend's strategies.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:06
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TaintedBalance posted:There are some very odd takes in the last couple pages here. If you don't like exploiting the games mechanics to their maximum potential, just play the mechanics as intended. It is a giant game with an insane amount of systems and no game this large or complex is perfectly balanced. i don't understand this point at all - certain factions are not op/boring because you can do weird exploit things, unless by exploits you mean things like 'using ranged attacks' while playing as skryre or vamp coast. they're op/boring because they remove all the challenge from the game. i think this game is more fun when it's challenging.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:16
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:he just has the patience to exploit the AI to maximum effect. Its a little boring imo when he flies back and forth for five minutes until the enemy gunners all run out of bullets or whatever. If you can do that sort of thing and keep casualties to a minimum then yeah Taurox is perfectly suited to exploit that like crazy. I have played a fair bit of Tehenahuin, and I have never gotten anything impressive from the random follower or banner decisions, it's a massive gamble. Most of the time you will just get replenishment or research rate stuff. His "power" is almost entirely hypothetical.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:18
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It should also be noted that Legend is playing on Legendary and doing a This is Total War campaign where he declares war on everyone. This has been helpful in that the AI has more armies on Legendary and being at war with everyone makes it easier to find a battle for Taurox to chain together. But the problem with this is that the campaign will become increasingly tedious as time goes on. This is fine if you're a streamer who gets paid for it, but for a normal player this kind of thing is just miserable.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:24
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Dr Christmas posted:We got an official blog post about Thoreau Ironbrow yesterday: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-2-thorek-ironbrow/ Zephro fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jul 7, 2021 |
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Jul 7, 2021 19:33
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They changed Grombrindal's starting grudges to incentivize packing up your bags and heading off to kick both flavors of elf in the teeth.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:36
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ThingOne posted:They changed Grombrindal's starting grudges to incentivize packing up your bags and heading off to kick both flavors of elf in the teeth.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:37
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Pretty much. The grudge with the best reward is easily the one where you go and settle things with Malekith.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:48
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Zephro posted:Oh OK, that I didn't know. That sounds awesome. Do we get to refight the War of the Beard? You can, but you still have the same start position and just leaving to attack elves will probably just result in you having a bunch of grudges from orcs raiding and stealing your stuff. Grudges aren’t solely negative now though so that might not really matter.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:50
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ThingOne posted:They changed Grombrindal's starting grudges to incentivize packing up your bags and heading off to kick both flavors of elf in the teeth.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:51
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The fact that Elves don’t reciprocate the grudge is reason enough for an even greater grudge, I reckon.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:54
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Broken Cog posted:I find this kinda weird. They've added these small things to the dwarfs (like the elf-slayer, an unique building if they capture Lothern, and now the Grombrindal stuff) to incentivize fighting elves, but nothing the other way around. Feels a bit one-sided. I mean, that's kinda true to the lore. Neither the Asur nor the Druchii super give a poo poo about the dwarves, despite their history. It is mostly a dwarf thing.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:57
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The Gunslinger posted:Who cares about singleplayer balance anyway? It's never been balanced, that's what makes it fun. a lot of people really hate to have a good time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Jul 7, 2021 19:59
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