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human garbage bag posted:The doctor is not the one doing the MRI, so it's ok that they don't know what it costs. The MRI center will know that. When I had my MRI the doctor just referred me to the MRI center, and then I did business with them separately. But rather, going back to our ripped-from-the-headlines-scenario: You arrive at the MRI center. You are still in excruciating pain and have fasted as requested. You ask the MRI technician the price and they don't know. Do you leave or get the procedure done to figure out why you are in continuous pain for the last month?
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Jul 7, 2021 21:12
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HootTheOwl posted:The MRI center? So you really didn't have a choice? I would call ahead of time to make sure they took my insurance, or told me the cost if I'm uninsured. I wouldn't buy a candy bar if I didn't know the price, let alone a health procedure.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:16
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Ah yes, scheduling an MRI, exactly as useful or expensive or scarce as a piece of candy in the gimme section of every store.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:18
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Or like buying a car, except that you're buying the possibility of not being in crippling pain and or dying, and the next closest dealership is in another state depending on whether you live. Also, you pay a mandatory car purchase tax, but there's no guarantee you'll get anything from it beyond the local junkyard where you can pull your own parts and make your own car if you really want. Maybe the dealership accepts your car insurance. Maybe not! They say they do but it's possible that the person in the maintenance bay who unloads the car doesn't and charges an extra $2000 per car.
Volmarias fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jul 7, 2021 |
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Jul 7, 2021 21:20
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The best way to ensure you get a good price at a dealership is let them know that you desperately need a car right this minute and for it to be only dealer in the area.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:22
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Also, the taxi to the dealership is either free or costs $750, who knows. There's no other taxi nearby either but if you can wait until tomorrow (you can't, you'll lose your job) you could always have someone give you a ride
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Jul 7, 2021 21:24
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Ok I admit I am a bit spoiled cause I live in a wealthy area of a deep blue state. I can't speak for other areas, other than if these horror stories are true then they should consider either moving or staging an armed rebellion.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:24
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Actually, that's not totally true. There's another taxi service you can call but they're not local and there's no guarantee when they'll actually come or how much they'll cost either.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:26
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human garbage bag posted:I would call ahead of time to make sure they took my insurance, or told me the cost if I'm uninsured. I wouldn't buy a candy bar if I didn't know the price, let alone a health procedure. "Yes hello I'm bent over in pain please give me your best price for an MRI to help solve the excruciating pain. Oh, you don't know and I'm about about to pass out from the pain, well let me shop around." IK: I'm gonna call this your warning Human Garbage Bag, knock it off with the hot takes CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jul 7, 2021 |
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Jul 7, 2021 21:27
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human garbage bag posted:Ok I admit I am a bit spoiled cause I live in a wealthy area of a deep blue state. I can't speak for other areas, other than if these horror stories are true then they should consider either moving or staging an armed rebellion. I'm also in a deep blue state. Weirdly we have the same issue regardless, and I'm wealthy enough and privileged enough that this is mostly a non issue, but it still exists even for me, and it's the reason you just don't go to the doctor if you're poor.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:29
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human garbage bag posted:I would call ahead of time to make sure they took my insurance, or told me the cost if I'm uninsured. I wouldn't buy a candy bar if I didn't know the price, let alone a health procedure.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:29
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HootTheOwl posted:That sounds like a rational, patient, decision you wouldn't actually make because as stated: You're in continuous pain with no end in sight. The price is irrelevant, it could be infinity dollars and you'd pay it because the choice are find out what's wrong with you or kill yourself. Oh man, imagine you being unconscious and having to shop around for best price. A healthcare shoppers paradise.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:30
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Volmarias posted:I'm also in a deep blue state. Weirdly we have the same issue regardless, and I'm wealthy enough and privileged enough that this is mostly a non issue, but it still exists even for me, and it's the reason you just don't go to the doctor if you're poor.  As stated, I worked for a hospital, and even then, I still had to wait and got weird bills and quotes and nothing ever made any sense or was any good. My mom was an RN, and she was on the phone arguing with insurers every other month because they made a "mistake" again with billing for my sister's psychiatric treatment. We're both people who know how the healthcare system works, and even we had tons of trouble.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:31
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CommieGIR posted:Oh man, imagine you being unconscious and having to shop around for best price. A healthcare shoppers paradise. Have a list of acceptable hospitals tattooed to your chest along with instructions to call ahead to make sure there's been no update in their insurance policy.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:33
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HootTheOwl posted:Have a list of acceptable hospitals tattooed to your chest along with instructions to call ahead to make sure there's been no update in their insurance policy. A big tattooed list you have to check off with sharpies before the doctor can continue.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:37
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human garbage bag posted:Ok I admit I am a bit spoiled cause I live in a wealthy area of a deep blue state. I can't speak for other areas, other than if these horror stories are true then they should consider either moving or staging an armed rebellion. I also live in a wealthy area of a deep blue state: It doesn't change the fact that you can not be a rational consumer about your own health. It's a toxic fantasy to think otherwise.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:37
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skooma512 posted:My health plan was based around the hospital I work at, I guess I had to stay in the company store. The only psychiatrist on staff didn't believe in meds and just wanted to do talk therapy, oh and he was so senile he needed the passwords for accounts reset literally every day, even if he wrote it down. Why yes they're bankrupt and closed now why do you ask? The idea of a hospital closing for any other reason than "the building is a hundred years old and we need a new and bigger one" is just mind boggling.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:38
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HootTheOwl posted:I also live in a wealthy area of a deep blue state: It doesn't change the fact that you can not be a rational consumer about your own health. It's a toxic fantasy to think otherwise. I live in a Red State, but we work for a Fortune 150 with decent insurance that refused to cover even basic diagnostic services and the hospital was very vague about how much it might cost, who will cover it, and basically shoved a clipboard in my hand and said if I wanted treatment I had to sign it. I was not in any state to question it.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:39
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Nothingtoseehere posted:America spends 18% of it's GDP on healthcare, when even rich european nations spend 11%-12% for much better quality service. While I agree that those jobs can be cut and it would only increase quality of care, cutting 4%-5% of your GDP in spending is going to have massive short term economic damage, even if it will be better used in the long run.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:41
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Insurance will do everything possible to deny claims. And god gently caress you if you get med lifeflighted because they will fight that tooth and nail because those are mode 5 figure to 6 figure bills at least. We had an insurance company deny a clinically needed ambulance ride. Because he was getting transferred to a psych facility. Which per state law has to be done by ambulance because the patient needs medical supervision for protection and for the facility to even accept the patient. Literally the definition of medically required. And the insurance wouldn't cover it.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:42
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CommieGIR posted:A big tattooed list you have to check off with sharpies before the doctor can continue. *dies anyways because I did not creature sufficient joinder to allow them to mark my body*
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Jul 7, 2021 21:43
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Insurance will do everything possible to deny claims. And god gently caress you if you get med lifeflighted because they will fight that tooth and nail because those are mode 5 figure to 6 figure bills at least. Guessing there's no way to sue them/end their contract?
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Jul 7, 2021 21:44
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Mister Facetious posted:The idea of a hospital closing for any other reason than "the building is a hundred years old and we need a new and bigger one" is just mind boggling. Dire incompetence can absolutely snowball into enough to cause bankruptcy. Hospitals make most of their money on elective surgery as I understand it, and if it gets a reputation as a shitshow no one who has an actual choice (the medical personnel who are doing the thing) is going to go there. If you have poor patient outcomes you can also effectively lose state or federal funding/reimbursement. My ex wife was a volunteer EMT for a while. There were certain hospitals they tried to avoid taking patients to, and which she told me to definitely not go to is I could help it. The hospital didn't last all that much longer aiui.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:44
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Mister Facetious posted:Guessing there's no way to sue them/end their contract? For many people, this is infeasible:
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Jul 7, 2021 21:47
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HootTheOwl posted:I also live in a wealthy area of a deep blue state: It doesn't change the fact that you can not be a rational consumer about your own health. It's a toxic fantasy to think otherwise. You just need a little bit of pain tolerance. The providers want your money, the sooner the better. They don't want you holding out for more affordable treatment, so they will offer you a price they think will entice you to sign. They will start off with no price so they can charge whatever they want. When you refuse to sign they'll hem and haw and then come back with a price. It really does feel like the used car dealership experience. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 7, 2021 21:49
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Volmarias posted:For many people, this is infeasible: Multiple plans from a provider that doesn't provide insurance 
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Jul 7, 2021 21:49
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human garbage bag posted:You just need a little bit of pain tolerance. The providers want your money, the sooner the better. They don't want you holding out for more affordable treatment, so they will offer you a price they think will entice you to sign. They will start off with no price so they can charge whatever they want. When you refuse to sign they'll hem and haw and then come back with a price. It really does feel like the used car dealership experience. They don't set those prices at all. Those prices are set by what the insurance provider will pay. The doctors/hospital bill a very large number and the insurance counter offers. Holy poo poo is nothing like a used car dealership, you've never actually dealt with healthcare and insurance providers before, have you.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:50
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human garbage bag posted:You just need a little bit of pain tolerance. The providers want your money, the sooner the better. They don't want you holding out for more affordable treatment, so they will offer you a price they think will entice you to sign. They will start off with no price so they can charge whatever they want. When you refuse to sign they'll hem and haw and then come back with a price. It really does feel like the used car dealership experience. I'll just spoil the ending: You have 7 tumors in your body. You were in constant pain because the nerves to your legs were being pinched 24 hours a day for the last 40+ days by an ever growing tumor on your spine. Once your dumbass finally finished negotiating the MRI price you are immidately scheduled for an emergency PET Scan except there's one hitch: The hospital won't actually do it until insurance confirms you indeed have the cancer that showed up on your MRI. It's too expensive, you see. But I suppose you could keep bargaining down and hope your stage 4 lymphoma does not metastasize further...
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Jul 7, 2021 21:56
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this human garbage bag poster is trolling the piss out of all of you fyi
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Jul 7, 2021 21:56
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CommieGIR posted:They don't set those prices at all. Those prices are set by what the insurance provider will pay. The doctors/hospital bill a very large number and the insurance counter offers. You can ask how much a procedure would cost without insurance, then compare that to what your health plan will reimburse for that procedure to see how much you will have to pay out-of-pocket, if any. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 7, 2021 21:58
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human garbage bag posted:You can ask how much a procedure would cost without insurance, then compare that to what your health plan will reimburse for that procedure to see how much you will have to pay out-of-pocket, if any. Extremely fitting post/username combo
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Jul 7, 2021 22:01
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human garbage bag posted:You can ask how much a procedure would cost without insurance, then compare that to what your health plan will reimburse for that procedure to see how much you will have to pay out-of-pocket, if any. And when they tell you they don't know the recourse is....
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Jul 7, 2021 22:02
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FYI if the patient ever has to worry about the cost of a procedure your healthcare system is abusive and needs to die in a fire. If anyone at any step of the process refuses to pay up they can go sue each other behind the scenes, the patient must never ever be required to interact with this process.
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Jul 7, 2021 22:03
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HootTheOwl posted:"A little bit of pain tolerance". If you'd been reading you'd notice I said this had been going on for a month. A little bit of pain tolerance is how you survived so long and stuck through physical therapy. My mother had migraines for twenty years. It wasn't until 2018 that she finally got an MRI instead of yet another doctor that just thought she wanted painkillers and completely ignored her personal and family history of cancer. They removed a tumor that year. No cost. No fighting with insurance or the hospital. They just loving did the God damned job (nearly too late if you ask me), and she's been migraine free ever since. Every health insurance "provider" deserves to be put out of business, and every private hospital nationalized.
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Jul 7, 2021 22:05
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The only people who bother sticking up for this godawful system are the ones who never actually use it. Single dudes with no chronic conditions think it's mostly fine and all the horror stories are because someone was doing it wrong, because they get a checkup once a year and it costs them nothing out of pocket. Getting through the first year of having a child with that view intact is functionally impossible.
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Jul 7, 2021 22:13
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And this is the outcome that's significantly better than we used to have, where you could be denied coverage for "pre existing conditions" like... Diabetes, or asthma, or having a cold last year that your didn't mention. So, no insurance in some cases for you from the get go, enjoy paying out of pocket for that cancer or that expensive insulin because the generics don't work on you. If it got too expensive to pay for you, they would... just drop you, good luck with the cancer lol. The only way to combat this would be to cause a public outrage on a radio or television program to cause the insurance company to decide that this was "a mistake" and bring you back on. Alternately, you could have a garbage plan that had a lifetime maximum, which meant that there was a cap on how much they would pay. Sorry, no more money after $300k, guess you'll have to declare bankruptcy for medical reasons, assuming you survive! Are you a literal child? Perhaps a man child, aged 20, who is no longer covered by your parents insurance but you cannot actually afford any yourselves. Good luck! You do have insurance, but they decide that an MRI wasn't covered for your shattered legs?  Technically, you could get Medicaid, but it was extremely hard to actually meet the requirements. If you're in a regressive state, they may not have an actual feasible option for coverage. Sorry, poors! Sorry, olds! Mind you, employers didn't actually have to offer you any health insurance. They could just.. not. The ACA ('Obamacare') originally changed this, mandating a minimum amount of coverage employers must make, but the section was poorly worded and effectively overturned for anyone who was part time. This is why many part time jobs are 29.5h or so. The ACA also attempted to extend medicare coverage to states for ten years, to try to cover the gap in the short term, but if you had a republican government your state almost certainly rejected this free money, because Obama and the Democrats did it and That's Bad. The whole thing is just a loving cavalcade of horrible, evil poo poo that should have been illegal long ago, but like the SSN was never intended to be a national id number, this was never intended to actually be the way healthcare went, it just sort of ended up that way for various reasons you can look up (attracting workers during WW2 with benefits etc). The ACA was an attempt to actually make things not terrible, but ultimately ended up just being a way to enshrine health insurance as the national healthcare plan, so that it's only moderately terrible. The Republican party still describes this as Literally Communism. But what about other nations? Why can't we just do what Canada does? We already have bus trips of olds into Canada to get their medication because they can't afford it here. Nope, sorry, there was a whole disinformation campaign by the insurance companies about how national healthcare meant you waited 6 months to see a doctor and you couldn't get a new hip. Even after some people responsible for this had a change of heart and explicitly told everyone that it was all bullshit, this is still a common myth. Well, ok, this at least does something for pricing, right? Lol, no, medicare is prevented by law from negotiating drug prices like private insurance companies and the national healthcare systems of the rest of the world do. Non Americans, you can thank us for unwittingly subsidizing a massive amount of what you pay for drugs. It's helped to lightly slow down the increase in medical costs, but they're still rising much faster than can be afforded. Basically, think about how lovely America sounds, and then imagine that this used to be WORSE. This is why so many of us are so loving pessimistic about healthcare here, because there's no guarantee the GOP won't just repeal the ACA like they've been trying to for years once they regain power. Volmarias fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jul 7, 2021 |
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Jul 7, 2021 22:14
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human garbage bag posted:You can ask how much a procedure would cost without insurance, then compare that to what your health plan will reimburse for that procedure to see how much you will have to pay out-of-pocket, if any. The rap sheet explains a lot.
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Jul 7, 2021 22:16
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Mister Facetious posted:The idea of a hospital closing for any other reason than "the building is a hundred years old and we need a new and bigger one" is just mind boggling. Some of it was that old and did need retrofit. But our contracts sucked because previous sales that fell through and that exposed our hand and everyone hosed us on reimbursement. We had a good transplant program until someone got corrupt and it got shut down in the early 2000s. When a hedge fund took over management after a sale, they put a bunch of morons on charge who were more concerned about what IT was taking too long to get to them (their own purchasing process) and hiring executive VPs of who even knows. They made sure to get a bonus for their wonderful management of the bankruptcy though  . That's not sour grapes, the filings are public.Oh, and it closed (so rapidly as to be illegal, but lol laws don't apply to those with money) in... January 2020. Good thing there weren't any public health crises since then.
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Jul 7, 2021 22:21
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knox_harrington posted:The rap sheet explains a lot. Jeez. Whoever gave him a sixer, it sounds like it should be a six monther.
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Jul 7, 2021 22:27
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The American Medical Insurance Complex contributed to the death of my father (denied a diagnostic test) and almost killed my present wife (no return calls, internal bleeding due to a bad combo of prescriptions, I was traveling). I will cheer on their demise if we ever get single-payer. Which we won’t.
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Jul 7, 2021 22:29
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