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Do you prefer the extended summer thread format? This poll is closed. |
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126 | 44.21% |
| No |
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39 | 13.68% |
| I'm Scottish |
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120 | 42.11% |
| Total: | 285 votes | ||
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they don't promote me because i say things like that out loud at any opportunity  https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/1413009504539656193?s=19 crispix fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jul 8, 2021 |
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Jul 8, 2021 14:50
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crispix posted:this is the kind of thing the senior management at work indulge in with much of their time but like several departments are operating badly because the IT systems that support their work are fundamentally flawed at the conceptual level because they dictated magical requirements to a third party instead of involving anyone who knows about software Tell me about it. One place I worked, all the 'senior managers' were given desks adjacent to the network ports with the superspeedy transfer rates despite the fact most of them did nothing more with their computers than write reports, read email, do the occasional small spreadsheet. Meanwhile, the analysts were struggling with the much slower ports (10th the speed) while trying to analyse huge data sets of real-time data. And meanwhile, Senior Manager Who Writes an Email a Day With Speedy Port kept on saying there was nothing wrong with the speed when Senior Manager of Analyst Teams who was Also struggling with the slow data stream was saying we needed to rejig the large open-plan office so that the analysts could have the speedy ports. And managements always do that when they get in 'consultants' to redesign systems - never talk to the underlings who actually have to do the work, but only to the managers of those departments who are quite often clueless. (let me tell you about the time the senior manager of one analysis department I was in who did not know how to calculate a percentage).
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Jul 8, 2021 14:56
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:It's not applicable to every situation. Supermarkets yeah, but like, supermarkets are structured so that there are enough people in organizational positions that I can't really imagine that happening? I've never known someone to be incapable of seeing cause/effect like that on things that are easily perceivable. The structure is that you have basic workers and they are organized into small teams under a senior member, the senior members are below the department managers, and then the management team has the general manager theoretically at the top. But each worksite is sufficiently sized that even the GM can literally see what is happening in almost every part of the building. If there is some specific thing that keeps not working the managers almost always know about it. Some of my stores for example have consistent problems with people nicking stuff and then legging it out the fire door. Of course there's not really anything you can do about that because you can't lock the fire doors and someone at the top will have crunched the numbers to assume there is no point hiring more guards, but they're certainly aware of problems like that. I guess I just have difficulty imagining what sort of work environment you could have where you need to employ that sort of statistical analysis on anything other than the highest level looking for like, big outlier sites on sales/shrink rates/staff turnover/whatever on the national level. It's incredibly hard to see how it could actually work for the doing the job part of the business, because that is necessarily not really a quantifiable thing, it's predicated on everyone in the store understanding the process that goes on. I don't see how you could reduce it to statistics at that level. Also a lot of my job literally exists because a lot of national retailers are basically incapable of enforcing rigid adherence to policy or edicts from the central office, like they are just not structurally capable of sending out instructions and ensuring they followed accurately. They call our lot in basically when they have something they need near perfect compliance on. And a lot of that structural inability is exactly because on the local level, a lot of corporate-wide instructions are kind of stupid or not applicable. So on the local level they are always taken with a grain of salt and often not listened to. So I am also pretty iffy on the idea of trying to do this sort of statistical analysis on a big scale too, because I think it is likely to gloss over a lot of the actual details of the processes that go on at the local level. Every store I've visited has worked slightly differently, but they all work on aggregate, and it's difficult for me to really see how you can boil the incredible variety in how the job actually gets done into something meaningful. The problems at every individual site are going to be a bit different and there is a constant tension between the workers (and managers) at every individual site trying to muddle through and make things work based on their actual understanding of their local situation, and the desire of the corporate side trying to make everything uniform. And that tension creates an organizational inability to enforce compliance precisely because things only really work because they aren't rigid.
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Jul 8, 2021 14:58
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Without knowing a huge amount about retail ops, I can think it might be useful in optimizing number of checkouts, time staff spend on checkouts (maybe there's an optimum time after which they start making an unacceptable level of mistakes), acceptable losses (that you mention) - one of the things you do with a six sigma project is reach a point where you do what you have said there - the cost of moving from say 3 sigma to 4 sigma far outweighs the benefits of that, 'just in time' delivery chains. It may be in the retail operations all this has been gone through long ago. Six sigma is essentially a catch all term for a bunch of statistical techniques so those techniques may have already been used without calling them six sigma.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:05
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The national retailers have a whole structure of people above the store management as well as a set of procedures for moving managers around basically that exists to try and produce uniform robots that implement corporate procedures perfectly. And yet a lot of those people still have their own ideas about how to do stuff, so every time they get a new over-manager or whatever there is a shift in how everyone has to do stuff, or at least there is whenever there is an inspection, because the structures below them are still resistant to change. There's probably something very marxist about this observation that people's working methods are driven by their material conditions and not the big ideas of the highly paid people who come to look around every few months.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:11
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The other key thing about six sigma and all the similar methodologies is that as soon as you bring in highly paid consultants or whatever to do that or run training... someone somewhere has signed off on a lot of money for that (seriously, the amount consultants in things like that or agile earn is ridiculous) so they have to find something that supposedly could be done better/smarter/with less people because otherwise that cost isn't justified. And the senior person who signed it off doesn't want to be on the hook for saying there's no possible improvements to be made because then they can't justify their own job. So basically even if it's actually impossible to work better or with less people, departments are always still going get told they have to.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:15
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Julio Cruz posted:are you missing Terry Bollea on purpose I do my best to try to forget about him, I don't want to remind others of him. Unlike Terry Boy, I want more people to remember Kaientai/Kaientai DX members. Especially the 10 man tag with Kaientai DX vs Hamada, Naniwa, Tiger Mask, Super Delfin & the 5h guy I can never remember.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:18
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When we started doing this stuff at my old workplace (insurance claims) it was pretty clear what the fundamental problem was that would stop it actually improving anything. Essentially, the previous senior manager had done what you would expect a business like this to do: looked at the way their existing processes failed, worked out the cost of reducing that failure rate and concluded that the cost was more than the benefit. Then a new manager comes in and needs to prove that they're better than the old manager so hires some process improvement consultants. The consultants tell them how to add processes to engage the staff in process improvement (daily scrum meetings, ownership over identified problems, daily tracking for statistical analysis). The staff identify the problems, which end up being all the things the previous management knew about and rejected solutions to due to cost/benefit. The new management do the same cost/benefit calculations and come to the same conclusions. Nothing changes, except now the staff are more pissed off because you told them things would get better and all their suggestions got rejected. Because consultants were paid for, the daily rituals of identifying process problems continue but now the outputs all disappear into a black hole because it's not going to get fixed. Or sometimes you get option (b), which is someone identifies that part of the process can be automated. This makes things better for the staff doing the actual work for a short time, until someone realises that the same previously acceptable level of department performance can now be achieved with fewer people and layoffs happen. Anyone with a basic grasp of cause and effect realises that they optimised their former colleagues out of a job. Morale drops again.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:21
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mrpwase posted:Does it surpass his love of wet eggs? I am afraid I am not qualified to answer those questions. I just had a call with Alice Nutter. She's great.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:42
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if corona virus wasn't a thing i would go on a week long holiday to london and i would get a minicab every day to drive me past starmer at say 17-19mph, just long enough for me to shout out the window WWWUUUUUT UUUUUUUG CUUUUUUUhhhhn..... at him
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Jul 8, 2021 15:45
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Tarnop posted:When we started doing this stuff at my old workplace (insurance claims) it was pretty clear what the fundamental problem was that would stop it actually improving anything. Probably how we ended up with self-checkouts which I try not to use unless it's really busy and I am in a hurry on account of not wanting to take a job away from a person.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:48
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then a few weeks later i will be on the front cover of the sunday sport with the headline I GOT A RESTRAINING ORDER FROM KEITH STARMER FOR THREATENING TO SHOVE 12 WET EGGS UP HIS ARSE, and holding a copy of it and doing a gormless face
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Jul 8, 2021 15:51
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forkboy84 posted:I do my best to try to forget about him, I don't want to remind others of him. Unlike Terry Boy, I want more people to remember Kaientai/Kaientai DX members. Especially the 10 man tag with Kaientai DX vs Hamada, Naniwa, Tiger Mask, Super Delfin & the 5h guy I can never remember. Masato Yakushiji, notable in that match for dressing like a poo poo Christmas elf.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:53
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therattle posted:I just had a call with Alice Nutter. She's great. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Nutter_(alleged_witch)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Nutter_(writer) ...oh.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:55
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therattle posted:I am afraid I am not qualified to answer those questions. Oh cool, she wrote one of my favourite episodes of Accused, called "Helen's Story". Very UKMT that episode. That show was incredible, highly recommended. It's an anthology, every episode is about a different accused person in court for sentencing, having flashbacks about what brought them there. It has a hell of a cast, although they only appear for one episode. Sean Bean, Olivia Colman, Stephen Graham, Christopher Ecclestone, Peter Capaldi, Andy Serkis, etc.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:03
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mrpwase posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Nutter_(alleged_witch) eh, she changed her name to be named after the witch, so it's not far off.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:04
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I liked her in Chumbawamba, had no idea about her script writing. I'll have to check out some of that stuff! My college at Lancaster Uni was Pendle, which just meant more witches at halloween parties than you might otherwise expect.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:09
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https://twitter.com/pylonfan/status/1413093432273293312
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Jul 8, 2021 16:16
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Now official that Glinner is mostly known for being a transphobe https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1413073188003713033?s=21
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Jul 8, 2021 16:27
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therattle posted:I am afraid I am not qualified to answer those questions. Got pissed with her and the rest of Chumbawumba after a gig many years ago. Quality people, and never has a band’s reality been so divorced from the popular view of them. (Singsong and a Scrap is the best album of theirs, but they’ve done so much great stuff. But no, mention them and people just got ‘I get knocked down..’.)
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Jul 8, 2021 16:29
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If he's just been on the phone to her you can probably remove the alleged part.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:33
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lol 20% of Brits support introducing a permanent 10pm curfew. https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/1413155464632836100
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Jul 8, 2021 16:37
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keep punching joe posted:lol 20% of Brits support introducing a permanent 10pm curfew. 50% of those people who want a 10pm curfew are terrified nextdoor curtain-twitchers, the other 50% mean permanent for everyone but themselves
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Jul 8, 2021 16:40
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keep punching joe posted:lol 20% of Brits support introducing a permanent 10pm curfew. That'll be people living on run down estates without their own resident Harry Brown.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:41
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keep punching joe posted:lol 20% of Brits support introducing a permanent 10pm curfew. loving  who knew 25% of this stupid country just wants to close all the nightclubs down forever, very normal attitude that said I guess most of the people who respond to these sorts surveys are not your typical nightlife-enjoyers
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Jul 8, 2021 16:42
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I would quite like mask wearing to be actively encouraged on public transport tbh
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Jul 8, 2021 16:44
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I get the sentiment and I know it's probably better for my health but honestly after this is done with I am never wearing a mask again so long as I live unless I am in a situation where not doing so will definitely kill me Also I miss tinnies on the train
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Jul 8, 2021 16:46
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That's quite encouraging that so many support masks for a month after. We might actually get "wear a mask if you're sick even though it's not illegal not to" through people's heads by winter. I spoke to my dad at lunch today and he mentioned something about one of the advisers saying "we have to have the covid wave before the flu season, we didn't have a flu season last year because everyone was wearing masks and social distancing, but the flu season this year could be bad" as if the man was simple, because if all that is known then why on earth wouldn't you just bring back masks and social distancing for the winter if that were so? Guess he's 'woke' now or something.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:48
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keep punching joe posted:lol 20% of Brits support introducing a permanent 10pm curfew. I've actually gotten in the habit of doing my shopping after midnight at the big 24 hour Tesco during Covid as a way of minimising contact. Still remember the first time I went to stock up late at night in the middle of March last year when the omens and portents were looking grim but the government and media were insisting it was no big deal. Was a strange feeling.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:49
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crispix posted:if corona virus wasn't a thing i would go on a week long holiday to london and i would get a minicab every day to drive me past starmer at say 17-19mph, just long enough for me to shout out the window WWWUUUUUT UUUUUUUG CUUUUUUUhhhhn..... at him Are you No Salad Barry?
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Jul 8, 2021 16:51
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Shyrka posted:I've actually gotten in the habit of doing my shopping after midnight at the big 24 hour Tesco during Covid as a way of minimising contact. It was very eerie, yeah. The air felt saturated, like before a really big (cytokine) storm and so it was I still remember in the first lockdown walking around Exeter in the middle of the road at around six in the evening, no cars around, maybe a handful of people. Didn't have to walk on the road but felt I should take the opportunity to have the full 28 Days Later experience ThomasPaine posted:I get the sentiment and I know it's probably better for my health but honestly after this is done with I am never wearing a mask again so long as I live unless I am in a situation where not doing so will definitely kill me Tinnies on the train is one of life's greatest pleasures so I'll give you that Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jul 8, 2021 |
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Jul 8, 2021 16:52
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Shyrka posted:I've actually gotten in the habit of doing my shopping after midnight at the big 24 hour Tesco during Covid as a way of minimising contact. I used to live really near a 24 hour supermarket and honestly unless you needed to buy stuff they could only sell during regular hours i.e alcohol, then going shopping really late or in the very early morning was great if it fit with work/lifestyle. Just peace and quiet, and no messing around with queues. Loved it.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:53
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ThomasPaine posted:loving Nearly 20% of our population is 65+ I'm not surprised at all
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Jul 8, 2021 16:54
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Shyrka posted:Still remember the first time I went to stock up late at night in the middle of March last year when the omens and portents were looking grim but the government and media were insisting it was no big deal. Was a strange feeling. I remember walking past one of those Evening Standard stands in London in March during the rush hour crowds and all the papers had the headline 'VIRUS MAY THREATEN BRITAIN' or something along those lines while thousands of people were marching past in a scrum and oh boy did it feel like the opening scenes of a disaster film, funny to look back on
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Jul 8, 2021 16:54
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Close all the casinos yes, but not because of covid.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:55
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we really really do need to do something about covid agoraphobia tbh. Had some guy yesterday in a super serious mask losing his poo poo and screaming “DON’T STAND IN THE DOORWAY I CANT SOCIALLY DISTANCE” at the teenage girl preventing people from entering because she needed to count them in, do the “scan the app” talk and direct to tables. I regret not being able to say “sir this is a McDonalds” at him before he stormed off bleating.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:55
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learnincurve posted:we really really do need to do something about covid agoraphobia tbh. Shame really, that would've really owned the clearly super anxious guy
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Jul 8, 2021 16:57
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OwlFancier posted:Close all the casinos yes, but not because of covid. I had a fiver on a draw in the England-Denmark game and won just under twenty quid then stupidly chucked it all on one of those online wheel of fortune games the bookies have and turned it into £600, good day. I'm not sure whether this is an argument for casinos because that was pretty sick, or against them because now I definitely think I can magic money out of nothing and will probably blow all my cash trying to repeat the success after a few pints
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Jul 8, 2021 16:59
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The older I get the more I think organised gambling should be illegal.
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Jul 8, 2021 17:01
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I love it because I'm a degenerate but when I put my serious hat on I do think it should be limited in some way, perhaps by having lower maximum stakes or having fixed monthly deposit limits for everyone or something, but then the casinos and bookies would all shut because they make most of their money from rich idiots/extremely tragic not so rich idiots willing to bet hundreds or thousands of pounds a go, or just sit there all day
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Jul 8, 2021 17:05
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