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It goes beyond terminology though. There are real times in life where people will refuse to respond to a concept described accurately unless you use the specific set of words. Balance billing is very easy to explain using other words but if you don't use those exact words, it doesn't count. That's something well beyond terminology and it's not very hard to see why someone would assume there's another set of words to use in a court.
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Jul 3, 2021 22:30
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“Lawyer dog”
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Jul 3, 2021 22:32
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Bad Munki posted:“Lawyer dog” Man that case frustrates me to no end specifically for the reasons being discussed itt right now. Judges are the worst.
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Jul 3, 2021 23:01
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Leviathan Song posted:It goes beyond terminology though. There are real times in life where people will refuse to respond to a concept described accurately unless you use the specific set of words. Balance billing is very easy to explain using other words but if you don't use those exact words, it doesn't count. That's something well beyond terminology and it's not very hard to see why someone would assume there's another set of words to use in a court. I find that sometimes this is intentional stubbornness, and sometimes it's completely unintentional due to a person's complete immersion in the jargon of their field. Everyone they talk about their work with knows the exact same jargon, to the extent that the shorthand for concepts starts to become the only part of that concept necessary to consciously retain. Someone starts trying to describe a set of features that belong to one of those conceptual buckets, and they just... don't recognize what is being discussed, it's been too long since it was necessary to tease out all those features individually. I'm trying to think of good examples from my own field, but my own field is professional communication so I think maybe we're less susceptible. I work with lots of software engineers though, and they definitely do this sometimes. Imagine this dumb conversation between I guess a new exec who has no domain understanding of the processes of software development, and a developer: "Hey, so, those programming files you've been working on?" "Yeah?" "Make sure you give them to Dan so he can put them in the program. Dan said he needs them." "Huh?" "You know. Send the files so Dan can look at what you did. He told me he approves your work." "Oh, yeah I don't need to do that. Dan has access to the repo." "But you've changed the files, you did that on your own computer, right?" "Of course." "OK, so Dan hasn't seen them yet, you told me five minutes ago you just finished." "Uh... what? No... yes, I just finished, but of course... huh?" <a lengthy stupid discussion ensues> "OH, you wanted me to merge my branch into Main yeah I'll commit the merge as soon as I'm done unit testing and Dan will review it before we run the next build." "...right, yes, like I said at the beginning, you jerk."
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Jul 3, 2021 23:22
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Leviathan Song posted:It goes beyond terminology though. There are real times in life where people will refuse to respond to a concept described accurately unless you use the specific set of words. Balance billing is very easy to explain using other words but if you don't use those exact words, it doesn't count. That's something well beyond terminology and it's not very hard to see why someone would assume there's another set of words to use in a court. Really that's just the concept of "jargon." Knowing the right words to describe something to people who are familiar with it. Frankly when you use outside terminology to refer to standard things, it confuses the gently caress out of people because in the context of their job they're not used to people using the "wrong" words. What some people think as "magic" words are just the standard terminology of the field. When you talk to the same people every day to discuss the same things, you have words for it, and in the context of your job those words have hyper-specific meanings. When people use some other way to talk about it, it just doesn't sound right. When you use the "right" words, suddenly everyone understands and knows precisely what it is you mean.
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Jul 4, 2021 00:59
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Law is absolutely magic and lawyers are witches. It's a set of totally unnatural rules which overlay the physical world and affect peoples' lives when they mess with them, sometimes unintentionally. People come to us to tell them the future, write words to bind their enemies, give them slips of paper to ensure their ventures are successful, foresee and avoid disasters for them, and sometimes yes to say the magic words to get them what they want.
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Jul 4, 2021 02:27
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Organza Quiz posted:Law is absolutely magic and lawyers are witches. It's a set of totally unnatural rules which overlay the physical world and affect peoples' lives when they mess with them, sometimes unintentionally. People come to us to tell them the future, write words to bind their enemies, give them slips of paper to ensure their ventures are successful, foresee and avoid disasters for them, and sometimes yes to say the magic words to get them what they want. Hmm, so maybe the sovcit problem in this metaphor is more people thinking anybody or least they can do magic? Given how a lot of that crowd react to science as a "belief", maybe it's a whole "I bypass the rules because I BELIEVE harder than all you lesser beings" (which also seems to come up with the religious fanatics that they share a lot of characteristics with, really). I admit there's a definite difference between the people who think taxes are magic but are willing to defer to my greater knowledge of the dark arts vs. the ones who are POSITIVE, just absolutely certain, things work this way because I read it once and I'm never wrong so screw your years of experience doing more tax returns than any one person will do for themselves in their lives every tax season. Obviously lawyers and other similar occupations need a better way to levy curses on those who mock our arcane mastery. Or maybe just pointy hats and staves, I'm not entire certain which would help more. Or perhaps just change our terms for ourselves to the more respected traditional names? I guess my turn paperwork to gold power makes me an alchemist, estate lawyers could call themselves necromancers because of their power over the dead...
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Jul 4, 2021 03:10
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MadDogMike posted:Obviously lawyers and other similar occupations need a better way to levy curses on those who mock our arcane mastery. This usually happens by itself when they meddle alone with forces they don't understand and end up suffering the consequences.
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Jul 4, 2021 04:52
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Organza Quiz posted:Law is absolutely magic and lawyers are witches. It's a set of totally unnatural rules which overlay the physical world and affect peoples' lives when they mess with them, sometimes unintentionally. People come to us to tell them the future, write words to bind their enemies, give them slips of paper to ensure their ventures are successful, foresee and avoid disasters for them, and sometimes yes to say the magic words to get them what they want. gently caress yeah
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Jul 4, 2021 05:25
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If the magic words analogy holds, and the practice of law is like casting spells from the necronomicon, then Sov Cits are reading random spell names from Harry Potter.
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Jul 4, 2021 05:27
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Actually, yeah that checks out. Can't believe I'm an evil wizard! Go to law school, kids!
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Jul 4, 2021 07:00
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I am the black lawyer! I casts the spells that makes the tariffs fall down!
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Jul 4, 2021 11:53
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Some of us even get to wear actual wizard robes on a regular basis.
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Jul 4, 2021 13:46
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blarzgh posted:If the magic words analogy holds, and the practice of law is like casting spells from the necronomicon, then Sov Cits are reading random spell names from Harry Potter. …after ignoring the Necronomicon’s warnings NOT to summon Azathoth by writing the name of that nuclear chaos in blood on the flayed skin of a lamb
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Jul 4, 2021 13:48
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MadDogMike posted:estate lawyers could call themselves necromancers because of their power over the dead... I'm an estate lawyer and I actually did lobby to rename our department the Department of Necromancy. It kinda worked!
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Jul 4, 2021 14:17
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Greetings, Legal Thread! I have a question related to personal injury and landlord/tenant law in Oklahoma. Last week, while moving out of my apartment, I tripped in the parking lot and fractured my arm. This being the good ol US of A, the medical bills are adding up a bit and I would like to seek compensation from the apartment complex and I have no idea where to start, as I’ve never filed any sort of claim like this before.
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Jul 5, 2021 15:31
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What did you trip on
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Jul 5, 2021 15:38
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bird with big dick posted:What did you trip on One of these:  Except it wasn’t in a parking spot. It was at the non-curb/sidewalk end of a non-parking spot between two handicap spaces.
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Jul 5, 2021 15:43
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:One of these: Was it broken or otherwise hard to see?
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Jul 5, 2021 16:14
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Was it broken or otherwise hard to see? It wasn’t broken and was painted yellow but it is in a place you wouldn’t typically expect to see a concrete parking stop. I was walking backwards holding one end of a mattress and didn’t see it this time.
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Jul 5, 2021 16:36
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I've won on these facts before in a contributory negligence state, which I assume Oklahoma isn't. Definitely worth reaching out to a personal injury attorney for a consult.
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Jul 5, 2021 16:58
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Nonexistence posted:You can't draw on Uranus it's a gas planet Shadow play modifier, +6 soc research.
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Jul 6, 2021 03:38
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blarzgh posted:In Texas, the main issue was specifically them filing a bunch of bogus judgment liens and other kind of liens against people's properties. They would just walk over to the courthouse and file bogus million dollar judgment lienz against some judge that had given them the traffic ticket conviction, or some DA that prosecuted them or some other public official that annoyed them for whatever reason. I remember some guy repaired a truck in the parking lot of Fair Park (I'm not sure it even was a truck owned by Fair Park / the city) and got a lien on Fair Park and tried to foreclose on it Like Congrats! you now own the cotton bowl!
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Jul 6, 2021 16:23
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Thread, either I am getting hosed, I am overly paranoid, or my hands are tied, and I just need to suck it up. This is in Georgia and is a Probate matter. Background info is in my post history. I will paraphrase here: My grandmother passed in 2017 with some pretty substantial assets. A week later, my mother was murdered by my father. All Estate activities were put on hold until the murderer was convicted and sentenced in 2019 and he could be cut out as an heir via the slayer statutes. Since 2019, this process has drug on at a snail’s pace. My mom’s oldest brother(uncle 1) is the executor and runs a highly successful home restoration company, all kinds of side businesses, rental properties, and is quite wealthy. He doesn’t have to work but does almost obsessively. I am on my second attorney after the first one botched my mother’s affairs. The second one is the same one handling grandma’s estate. At the time I saw it as a good idea to keep everything in the same shop since it is all so intertwined. After some recent events where this attorney has repeated to my uncle questions I asked him in confidence, I am considering taking the entire file to a third attorney to be audited on a level that would make a gastroenterologist proud. The will was done in solemn form and was amended shortly before grandmother’s death to leave 6 pieces of property, one to each child(my mom and younger brother), three properties were left to older brother. . All other assets are to be share and share alike. When mom was killed, her share goes myself and my sister instead of rear end in a top hat murdering father. Mom was bequeathed grandma’s house, which has sat for 4 years now, deteriorating. Uncle 1 has maintained the estate’s properties to an extent during the whole time, mainly stuff like cutting grass, etc. Problem is, no one really knows what is in the estate. No inventory was ever filed. The will was worded in such a way that Uncle 1 doesn’t have to be bonded or report any inventory. We all have an idea of what properties and assets my grandparents had but not once have we been told. Everything I know is through public records. He hasn’t been open with us about it either. 2 houses were sold with the estate as the seller to third parties. One house was purchased from the estate by uncle 1 via one of his LLC’s. A portion of the proceeds of that sale were paid out to heirs over a year ago. In addition, at least one other property was listed and sold. I know what it listed for but no idea what it sold for, and the broker for that one is a “friend” of uncle 1. Grandma’s house has been signed over to myself and my sister, yet I do not have the deed, or a copy of the homeowner’s insurance policy. I have a $4k property tax bill on my desk as well. As of the last month, the house is finally being emptied out by Goodwill people in some deal uncle1 brokered. The maintenance work done on properties as well as clearing out my mom’s home was done by employees of uncle1’s company. I was informed recently that he is entitled to a fee for executorship, which immediately removes any images from my mind that what he has been done so far was out of generosity. Basically, I don’t like how he’s managing this. I think he’s a bigtime grifter, but I don’t know if/how I am getting hosed, nor how to find out without appearing to be an ingrate or desperate for money(I’m not). He holds all the cards and it sucks.
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Jul 8, 2021 18:17
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Don’t worry about what you look like. Talk to another lawyer. That’s shady as hell.
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Jul 8, 2021 18:26
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Buddy, you don't just go see a third attorney for this, you go hire the best possible attorney for this situation because they may be doing years of investigation and cleanup spanning multiple estates. If you have any attorney friends in that area, ask who they would hire if they were in a $10 million estate dispute and losing was absolutely not an option. Get no less than 3 consults through the county bar referral service and do not settle for anyone who does not specifically specialize in estate administration in that region. You gotta go scorched earth to stop this grave from digging itself.
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Jul 8, 2021 18:55
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It doesn't really apply to this hair-raising case, but I'm starting to think the best plan is "give as much as possible to your heirs while you're still alive and healthy".
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Jul 9, 2021 11:40
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It is. Unless you are so super rich that you'll never need long term care Medicaid, give all your poo poo to your kids asap
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Jul 9, 2021 16:10
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You run into gift tax issues but this is a realm of the rich.
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Jul 9, 2021 16:22
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Nonexistence posted:Buddy, you don't just go see a third attorney for this, you go hire the best possible attorney for this situation because they may be doing years of investigation and cleanup spanning multiple estates. yeah, this does not strike me as a "just have the guy we know who does trusts and estates handle it", this seems like get a guy who you specifically interview to be a bloodhound here. what raises my hairs are the related-party transactions - where the uncle is buying stuff from the estate himself. that is always sketchy and everything should be very above-board and disclosed to everyone for it to be legit, and it sounds like it's not being disclosed in that way. the uncle using a broker he knows and his own employees seems fine-ish - something could be up, but it wouldn't instantly raise my suspicions. but him buying something through his own llc is a "hold up, give me all the document and details on this, explain to me exactly how you marketed this property and determined this was a fair price" sort of thing. you not having a deed for something that was "signed over" to you is odd and has potential reasonable explanations (not great ones, but just laziness) but any reasonable lawyer ought to be able to clear that up or find out there's a real problem here. i'm confused by the "repeated questions you asked in confidence" thing - like he said to the uncle "hey, my client asked X" or you asked him X, and he called the uncle and asked "hey, what's the answer to X?" i would typically not think that my client asking me a question would be something to keep in tight confidence because my assumption would be they want the answer (with some exceptions of course - if my client was to ask "hey, so i did X, is that a crime" i would think they wouldn't want that question repeated!"). and the best way to get the answer if it's a factual question that the uncle would know is usually to call the person and say "hey, my client wants to know X, what's the answer" - but I'd usually tell my client i was going to do that first. that said, of course, your lawyer should be doing what you want them to do, and you're the one that knows the situation - but i would be very clear about what you want and don't want your lawyer to do if you ask questions raising suspicions (but again, that should be something the lawyer should know to ask you about first if you're raising questions about your uncle, to be clear about what they're doing before they talk to the uncle). but if you don't like and trust your lawyer, get a new one - and that would apply even if this wasn't sketchy.
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Jul 9, 2021 16:28
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Harold Fjord posted:It is. Unless you are so super rich that you'll never need long term care Medicaid, give all your poo poo to your kids asap Especially if you will need Medicaid, give your stuff away early enough to not get caught on the look back period.
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Jul 9, 2021 17:05
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If you have millions or even more than a million I would not even think about Medicaid
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Jul 9, 2021 17:08
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euphronius posted:If you have millions or even more than a million I would not even think about Medicaid Totally doable with proper advance planning but it has to be significant advance planning. You won't be able to save everything but you can save a lot of assets for the kids if you plan properly. Pretty much everybody ends up needing medicaid if you live long enough. End of life care costs are an infinite money spigot until the spigot's blocked by a corpse. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jul 9, 2021 |
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Jul 9, 2021 17:12
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You can buy into “full service” retirement homes at that price. The local ones around me start at about 1 million. That was a few years ago maybe they are more now
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Jul 9, 2021 17:14
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Just out of curiosity, there's no way this would ever happen in a real court? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvkYRhu-TP0
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Jul 9, 2021 17:14
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euphronius posted:You can buy into “full service” retirement homes at that price. The local ones around me start at about 1 million. That was a few years ago maybe they are more now The ones I've seen there's an initial buy in sure but there are also costs that accrue after that, especially if you need hospital care which you will, and eventually you'll spend it all unless you die suddenly. I mean sure if you have many millions you're in a different category but almost nobody is that wealthy these days; these days mostly you either end up on Medicaid or you own the nursing home to begin with, there's not much in between.
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Jul 9, 2021 17:17
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I thought the buyin included end of life hospital / hospice etc. my bad
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Jul 9, 2021 17:18
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The ones I've seen there's an initial buy in sure but there are also costs that accrue after that, especially if you need hospital care which you will, and eventually you'll spend it all unless you die suddenly. Boomers have a million easy if you include house plus 401k etc. especially after the recent house price explosion.
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Jul 9, 2021 17:21
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spacetoaster posted:Just out of curiosity, there's no way this would ever happen in a real court? Not a lawyer, this feels like "Straight to mistrial, do not pass go, do not collect your fee"
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Jul 9, 2021 17:25
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euphronius posted:I thought the buyin included end of life hospital / hospice etc. my bad I mean, they might sure depending but either way why are you letting all that money go to The Pines when it could go to your kids? You're better off setting up some health care trusts and gifting the rest to the kids if you can set it up properly. Or we'll the family is better off. You don't care you have alzheimers. Tbf tho I've never done that kind of trust work. Closest I've come was some clients who got major judgments and we had to figure out how not to mess up their benefits as a result.
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Jul 9, 2021 17:27
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