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fractalairduct
Sep 26, 2015

I, Giorno Giovanna, have a dream!

You don't take double damage on Steel Soul, it's just a mode with no respawns.

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Eeepies
May 29, 2013

Bocchi-chan's... dead.
We'll have to find a new guitarist.
Fun fact: Markoth is commonly at the top of the most hated bosses in the game!

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Nvm I'm dumb

Black Robe
Sep 12, 2017

Generic Magic User


...and now I need to figure out why this video isn't showing up in my subscription feed. Youtube, stop making GBS threads yourself.

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles

Black Robe posted:

...and now I need to figure out why this video isn't showing up in my subscription feed. Youtube, stop making GBS threads yourself.

In my feed it shows up 2 days ago, alongside the video for the previous episode. Maybe it was accidentally set public early (since patrons are an episode ahead) before being re-privated, but fixing its place in the youtube timeline.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Black Robe posted:

...and now I need to figure out why this video isn't showing up in my subscription feed. Youtube, stop making GBS threads yourself.

Yeah this was a fuckup from when I debuted the wrong video for half an hour two days ago and youtube is having a hissy fit with me now for that grave sin.

Tylana
May 5, 2011

Pillbug
Yeah, I've seen it happen to other LPers too. The 'published' date or whatever is now fixed unless you desperately want to re-upload another copy.

pun pundit
Nov 11, 2008

I feel the same way about the company bearing the same name.

As far as I know, nail upgrades don't matter for dream bosses, as their health scales with your mail damage.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Tenebrais posted:

I don't think Markoth is the only one to recognise that he's dead after you beat him. Galien also noticed his own corpse, although he didn't recognise it as himself. Most of the warrier dreams are at graves, though, so there isn't a corpse there to see.

He definitely is a moth, though - he wields the same dreamshield that you got from the hidden chamber near the seer. And he does seem more aware of both his own relationship with the world and yours.

The hive queen seems pretty aware of everything, imo. She commented on the hive knight being free which makes no sense if she doesn't know she's already dead and the knight is guarding nothing but a corpse.

Also, I'm pretty sure if it bleeds orange goo, it's infested. So the bees are in fact infested, but maybe not too far along. You can tell by the enemies that we know are definitely not infested, Hornet and the mantis tribe. They flash white when you hurt them. There's one other enemy that doesn't flash that I can think of, Dung Defender. Speaking of which, for Yorkshire Tea, how are you gonna handle that? It's nearly impossible to find where he is, the breakable ground doesn't shake at all to show you can dive through it. Are you just gonna direct Nat there to fight White Defender?

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


pun pundit posted:

As far as I know, nail upgrades don't matter for dream bosses, as their health scales with your mail damage.

You gain more damage than their health scales so it doesn't negate upgrades, it just makes them not quite as much of a jump.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?
I had no idea the hive was even there

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

edit: nvm

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


I remember Tea mentioning there s some other non-Deepnest, non-Abyss area that gave him a stronger reaction of being uncomfortable?

For me, it's the leadup to the junk pit. I can deal with the spiders and all, but those maggoty grubs and eggs auuuuugh it's SO gross

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

Bifauxnen posted:

I remember Tea mentioning there s some other non-Deepnest, non-Abyss area that gave him a stronger reaction of being uncomfortable?

For me, it's the leadup to the junk pit. I can deal with the spiders and all, but those maggoty grubs and eggs auuuuugh it's SO gross

The sewers are pretty gross. But I find it's made tolerable by how goofy all the enemies act and sound.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

"I'll do the dream fights when I'm done with the rest of the game."

You don't realize that you're basically done, do you?

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007

WASP CREW
You know, I think there is a guy at the end who says "here's what happened, and why"

It's Yorkshire Tea :v:

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

I thought about doing a drinking contest every time Nat scrolls past Elder Hu on the map, but realized that I would kill my liver.

Quackles
Aug 11, 2018

Pixels of Light.


Alxprit posted:

"I'll do the dream fights when I'm done with the rest of the game."

You don't realize that you're basically done, do you?

Well, now that you've said that I want Nat to get the Delicate Flower ending.

Epicmissingno
Jul 1, 2017

Thank gooness we all get along so well!

Alxprit posted:

"I'll do the dream fights when I'm done with the rest of the game."

You don't realize that you're basically done, do you?

They give you essence, too! Which is...sorta-kinda required?

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

Epicmissingno posted:

They give you essence, too! Which is...sorta-kinda required?

It's very much required. And unless you know where all the the whispering roots are, you need to face at least one of the dream bosses to access the White Palace

Solitair
Feb 18, 2014

TODAY'S GONNA BE A GOOD MOTHERFUCKIN' DAY!!!

SirPhoebos posted:

It's very much required. And unless you know where all the the whispering roots are, you need to face at least one of the dream bosses to access the White Palace

Huh. I thought I got all the roots, but if what you're saying is true I haven't yet, since dream bosses were the next thing I was gonna do in my playthrough before I stopped playing the game for a while.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

I thought you needed to no matter what?

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007

WASP CREW

SirPhoebos posted:

It's very much required. And unless you know where all the the whispering roots are, you need to face at least one of the dream bosses to access the White Palace

Even with all of the Roots and Dream Warriors that only gets you 1582 Essence. You can't get the awakened nail without murdering a Dream Boss.

Edit: unrelated, but I think the White Lady is a fungus. Okay, so mushrooms are like icebergs. The but you see above ground is 10% of whole fungus and the remaining 90% is a gnarly white root system. And the Lady seems like a stationary sort though her roots stretch very far indeed.

YggiDee fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Jul 10, 2021

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat
Nat do you plan on getting all of the Charms / Tea do you plan on nudging Nat towards getting all of the Charms?

Fantastic Foreskin posted:

I thought you needed to no matter what?

This is correct, though with all of the DLCs you have a couple of additional outs for hitting that benchmark.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

YggiDee posted:

Even with all of the Roots and Dream Warriors that only gets you 1582 Essence. You can't get the awakened nail without murdering a Dream Boss.

Edit: unrelated, but I think the White Lady is a fungus. Okay, so mushrooms are like icebergs. The but you see above ground is 10% of whole fungus and the remaining 90% is a gnarly white root system. And the Lady seems like a stationary sort though her roots stretch very far indeed.

This would make a lot of sense given the relationships between many insects and fungi, in symbiotic terms

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
IIRC there was a way to zoom up to an area's map and it would show you the completion percentage, now that you have the Worldsoul. Could be useful for chasing down those missed nooks and crannies.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Jul 10, 2021

Eeepies
May 29, 2013

Bocchi-chan's... dead.
We'll have to find a new guitarist.
Actually, what's left in the main game?

1. Warrior Dreams - Elder Hu, is that it? Galien, Gorb, Markoth, Marmu, No Eyes and Xero are all done yeah.
2. Dream rematches - all 3.
3. White Palace
4. Flower Quest, what other mask shards is he missing?
5. The Collector and Grub quest
6. Trial of Fools
7. Ending

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011

Eeepies posted:

Actually, what's left in the main game?

1. Warrior Dreams - Elder Hu, is that it? Galien, Gorb, Markoth, Marmu, No Eyes and Xero are all done yeah.
2. Dream rematches - all 3.
3. White Palace
4. Flower Quest, what other mask shards is he missing?
5. The Collector and Grub quest
6. Trial of Fools
7. Ending


There's also the rest of the charms in their various hiding places.

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.
I love using sharp shadow.
But it also increases your dash range a bit, which can make some platforming sequences easier and some more of them a lot more annoying.

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

Eeepies posted:

Actually, what's left in the main game?

1. Warrior Dreams - Elder Hu, is that it? Galien, Gorb, Markoth, Marmu, No Eyes and Xero are all done yeah.
2. Dream rematches - all 3.
3. White Palace
4. Flower Quest, what other mask shards is he missing?
5. The Collector and Grub quest
6. Trial of Fools
7. Ending


He's also never rescued Bretta.

fractalairduct
Sep 26, 2015

I, Giorno Giovanna, have a dream!

Eeepies posted:

Actually, what's left in the main game?

1. Warrior Dreams - Elder Hu, is that it? Galien, Gorb, Markoth, Marmu, No Eyes and Xero are all done yeah.
2. Dream rematches - all 3.
3. White Palace
4. Flower Quest, what other mask shards is he missing?
5. The Collector and Grub quest
6. Trial of Fools
7. Ending


And Grimm.

E: missed that you said main game. Since I did, I suppose I'll also mention Godhome, and the rest of the dream bosses from the other DLCs.

fractalairduct fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jul 10, 2021

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Good job on the Soul Tyrant! The fight isn't exactly super hard but it is kind of a slog, Soul Tyrant has a lot of health and limited windows to hit, so it's easy to make a lot of mistake and the final part really doesn't give you a lot of chance to heal at all.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011

It is possible to get the required essence threshold without doing any refights. One of the sources of essence needed for that is missable but you passed the point where you could have locked yourself out of it.

The refights are much quicker, though. And let's be honest, they're fun.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
I just recently beat Soul Tyrant myself. I acquitted myself slightly better, but I also had fewer upgrades (No Monarch Wings or Shade Cloak, I kind of intentionally avoided critical upgrades this time around, which does mean I'll need to be doing a lot of backtracking now that I finally have Monarch Wings), and I did die once on his final phase. The only problem with how you handled that fight was you kept jumping over the homing shots, which let them curve up into the air and refocus on you, often while another one was on the way. Simply walking forward under them usually results in them impacting harmlessly behind you.

Glancing at the wiki, the Warrior Dreams and Whispering Roots, along with nailing random ghosts, only provides about 1600 Essence, so you do need to beat at least one dream boss. For story reasons, the Broken Vessel/Lost Kin (I can't remember if Nat actually poked it or not) makes the most sense, because of story reasons and it's the only one you actually know for certain exists, because you pass him on the way out after getting the Wings and he's got the dream sparklies.

One thing I'll note is that you're not actually getting a whole lot of utility out of Soul Catcher. Boring numbers to follow, but you may actually get more use out of Spell Twister with your playstyle.

Boring numbers: Your SOUL capacity is 99 in your main orb, each bonus orb adds 33. A nail hit grants 11 soul, and Soul Catcher adds 3 to your main orb, or 2 to a bonus orb. Essentially you get an extra hit's worth of SOUL for every 4 or 5. That adds up, but only when you're building up from near empty. If you're spending a single charge and then getting it back, Soul Catcher has no benefit. Soul Eater adds 8, or +6 on a reserve orb, so combining them essentially doubles your SOUL gain, but the notch cost could be prohibitive.

Casting spells or healing spends 33 SOUL. Spell Twister reduces the cost of spells to 24, letting you fire off 4 Reppukens on a full orb. It doesn't affect healing.


If the numbers don't interest you, my thinking is thus: You like throwing Power Waves. Spell Twister lets you throw more Endokukens with less downtime. Of course, if you have both Spell Twister and Soul Catcher, you get an Aura Cannon for every two nail hits.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

It bears considering that the dream fights are available as soon as you beat the normal boss, Soul Tyrant here has been available for a majority of the game; they're not really superbosses, just harder versions.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Fantastic Foreskin posted:

It bears considering that the dream fights are available as soon as you beat the normal boss, Soul Tyrant here has been available for a majority of the game; they're not really superbosses, just harder versions.

You do need Shade Cloak before White Defender becomes available.

And Nat still needs to rescue Bretta before he can face Invincible Fearless Sensual Mysterious Enchanting Vigorous Diligent Overwhelming Gorgeous Passionate Terrifying Beautiful Powerful Grey Prince Zote.

Eeepies
May 29, 2013

Bocchi-chan's... dead.
We'll have to find a new guitarist.
In my speedrun i did soul tyrant without any nail upgrades.
Phase 2 took 3 cycles to complete, it was nervewracking as hell.

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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I absolutely love using Steady Body as a pure DPS increase. Excellent idea by Nat, especially combined with the quick nail.


Also I don't think Hollow Knight does necessarily adhere to a very typical "post-game" idea. Like, you don't have to beat the final boss and get the "bad ending" to unlock the path to the "good ending". You can just keep digging deeper and deeper until you find out enough to be satisfied with. You're not killing the dream bosses to make a dry number go up, you do it because they're there, they represent unfinished business, and then you learn something about them (see: Soul Tyrant's dialogue), and you get an opportunity to learn even more from the Seer. The entire game has no obvious reason for why you're doing things you're doing. Why should it start giving you a clear motivation now?


Also consider Metroidvania progression: you can beat the "final" boss fairly early as far as content goes, but in order to unlock the Real Game Begins Here part, you have to do something extra. Everything after that is technically "post-game" but nobody in their right mind would call the Inverted Castle that. It's the second act.

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