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Edit: He responded and it’s not what I wanted to hear. “Thanks for the follow up, I really appreciate it! I’m not sure where you were able to pull up the info and the market average but I can give you insight into this team and the org on how they structure their offers. The RSUs being offered are already at the max level, so I don’t see this being possible to increasing this. As for the base salary, this would place you at the top 60th percentile within the org for your level and has you in line with team members that are currently on the team. So again, it will be hard for me to increase this, as the comp being offered is within our leveling across the org. I hope this info helps provide some clarity but if not, please let me know and I would love to provide some more context.” Any ideas on how to proceed? If the RSU’s are maxed, that’s fine. My minimum number to accept was $100K base so I’m good overall, but it sounds like the base may have a little wiggle room. Think I can push him some more? Edit: I’m thinking maybe something like “Totally understand about the RSU’s being maxed, that’s fine. As far as the base goes, I am confident I am the best candidate for the job and I will deliver immense value. I will be happy to sign an offer today if it is for $130K. “ Does it look bad to drop my number down? Biodome fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jul 8, 2021 |
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Jul 8, 2021 00:54
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spwrozek posted:I just made an offer to a guy who put $65-75K on the application. We offered him $75K. I hope he asks for more as I have room for more (he will be 3rd from the bottom out of 37 people in the grade). I probably would have started at $78K if he hadn't put down a number, HR basically said well he only asked for $75K. Would think about pushing back on HR here if you know they're coming in underpaid. They're going to find out, get angry, and probably start looking elsewhere.
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Jul 8, 2021 01:15
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Biodome posted:Edit: Anecdotal but just watched a friend negotiate at my current company and literally everything they told them was "maxed", wasn't. She eventually got everything she wanted plus more in base, sign on, and equity. I will caveat this by saying she was the department's #1 pick.
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Jul 8, 2021 01:21
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Yeah, companies lie all the time about not being able to negotiate, already being at the ceiling of what they can offer, etc. It's always 100% bullshit. Their initial offer is made with the expectation that they may need room to go higher, in case the candidate has any clue about negotiation.
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Jul 8, 2021 01:22
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"I'm sure we're in agreement that I will be a top performer in the organization, so especially if there really is no room on the RSU then a significantly higher base salary is very well justified and I would need that for this to work on my end. Let me know what you can do, I look forward to hearing back from you!"
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Jul 8, 2021 01:25
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Chaotic Flame posted:Anecdotal but just watched a friend negotiate at my current company and literally everything they told them was "maxed", wasn't. She eventually got everything she wanted plus more in base, sign on, and equity. I will caveat this by saying she was the department's #1 pick. Thanks, that’s good to know. I haven’t responded yet as it’s 7pm here and I figure I can sleep on it. Hoping I can get them to budge a little on the base at least. I’m just glad I got the offer. Eric the Mauve posted:"I'm sure we're in agreement that I will be a top performer in the organization, so especially if there really is no room on the RSU then a significantly higher base salary is very well justified and I would need that for this to work on my end. Let me know what you can do, I look forward to hearing back from you!" Ooh poo poo this is good. Think I’ll send this in the morning. Gonna see if anyone else has any input but I like this. Thank you! Biodome fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jul 8, 2021 |
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Jul 8, 2021 01:25
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Yes, waiting until tomorrow to respond is also a good idea IMO.
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Jul 8, 2021 01:26
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Yeah, companies lie all the time about not being able to negotiate, already being at the ceiling of what they can offer, etc. It's always 100% bullshit. Their initial offer is made with the expectation that they may need room to go higher, in case the candidate has any clue about negotiation. Yeah exactly. There's at least 5% wiggle room on salary, pretty much always except at sweatshops If they've already decided you're the top candidate, just tell them "I need at least X total comp to move" and that usually does the trick. Two jobs ago I was able to pull about $15k extra out of my starting salary that way. If they're only going to give you 60th percentile A) they have a ton of headroom to go up on salary, but you're gonna have to sell it to them B) you're only coming in at 60th percentile, yikes, now that they've given you a number, ask for at least 70th percentile, you'll have to guys what that means. I would be hesitant to start a new job knowing I'm coming in at "average", especially if I'm counting on a greater than 4% raise in a year
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Jul 8, 2021 01:29
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quote:As for the base salary, this would place you at the top 60th percentile within the org for your level and has you in line with team members that are currently on the team. So again, it will be hard for me to increase this, as the comp being offered is within our leveling across the org. So the guy just admitted the salary is not "maxed", not even close to it. 60th percentile for level is pretty right in the middle, and we all know that most companies don't give adequate raises and if you stick around for a few years you're almost certainly dropping in comp percentile for your level, despite increased experience.
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Jul 8, 2021 01:29
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Pillowpants posted:I've been told that I need to post this story in this thread as a lesson to some people. Oh, I left out that I threatened to quit if they lowered my pay when they demoted me and they agreed to only take my title away but claimed i am at the top of my range (which I know is bullshit because I have comp experience) so I wouldn’t get a raise for a few years. They also told me I would have big problems if I told anyone I got demoted because others did not negotiate the same salary. Needless to say, they burned bridges and I’m in the middle of the interview process with 5 different companies.
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Jul 8, 2021 01:30
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Chaotic Flame posted:Would think about pushing back on HR here if you know they're coming in underpaid. They're going to find out, get angry, and probably start looking elsewhere. I am not too worried. If he does well I will push him up pretty fast. Plus he is coming from consulting and working 55 hours+ a week to a 40 hour a week job. I mostly mostly it as an example of why you shouldn't say a number. (All our staff are underpaid already so I am not going to be able to fix that one)
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Jul 8, 2021 03:28
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I don't think I've ever encouraged someone to just ghost on their employer. Pillowpants, when you find the next thing, just ghost on your employer.
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Jul 8, 2021 13:35
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:I don't think I've ever encouraged someone to just ghost on their employer. Seriously.
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Jul 8, 2021 13:45
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:I don't think I've ever encouraged someone to just ghost on their employer. Haha. It's a really good company in a fantastic industry with some amazing employees. It just so happens that the HR rep who covers the staff functions is evil and vindictive. It doesn't help that the person who manages all the admins for our executives is computer illiterate and has asked me 25 times in 15 months to reset her passwords to the point where she thinks theres a problem in the system and complains to all the executives who point her to me.
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Jul 8, 2021 13:46
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Pillowpants posted:Haha. It's a really good company in a fantastic industry with some amazing employees. It just so happens that the HR rep who covers the staff functions is evil and vindictive. It doesn't help that the person who manages all the admins for our executives is computer illiterate and has asked me 25 times in 15 months to reset her passwords to the point where she thinks theres a problem in the system and complains to all the executives who point her to me.
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Jul 8, 2021 14:53
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Pillowpants posted:It's a really good company... It just so happens that the HR rep who covers the staff functions is evil and vindictive. fyi these do not square
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Jul 8, 2021 17:38
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Dik Hz posted:Evil HR rep is a feature and not a bug to the company's leadership. Was gonna post pretty much exactly this.
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Jul 8, 2021 18:01
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The point of HR is obviously to protect the business, not the employees, but good HR is essential to a "really good company" because how they treat employees in the interest of protecting the company speaks volumes about company leadership. If you've got bad HR you're at a bad company.
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Jul 8, 2021 18:09
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Guinness posted:If you've got bad HR you're at a bad company. One of HR's roles is 'designated scapegoat', as this discussion thread is proving. It's very useful for a company to be able to say "oh, we'd love to accommodate you - really we would! - but those meanies in HR just won't allow it."
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Jul 8, 2021 18:30
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Biodome posted:Edit: Update on this: I responded back with Eric the Mauve's message. Recruiter responded by saying that he'll have to run it by my hiring manager and his manager but he didn't think anything would change. I told him give it a shot. They replied with this: Same base Same RSU Same Bonus + Added a $10K signing bonus + Added $50K annual RSU refresher That's a win for me! Always negotiate. Thanks y'all.
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Jul 8, 2021 19:23
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Biodome posted:Update on this: goddamn will you look at that, another thread success. Well done Biodome!
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Jul 8, 2021 19:35
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FMguru posted:Yep. A good company with bad HR is a bad company. Yeah it's the "good czar" theory all over again. Leadership is good and if only they knew what was going on, they'd stop it! BS. they set it up that way or they're too incompetent/selfish to address the problem. Middle mgmt also takes that role. Sometimes unwittingly sometimes unwillingly.
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Jul 8, 2021 19:57
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It’s crazy to think that you have to tell a recruiter basically “do your job” to get there, but hey, whatever works. I guess there could be an argument on internal recruiters, etc. but still.
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Jul 8, 2021 19:59
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I'd like to work at a company with good HR. And I work in HR.
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Jul 8, 2021 21:21
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Parallelwoody posted:I'd like to work at a company with good HR. And I work in HR. Be the change you want to see in the…HR
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Jul 8, 2021 21:56
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Was just informed this morning that I will be receiving an offer for an internal transfer gig I had recently interviewed for. It is a lateral move, career transition sort of thing... I am going from computer touching, non-software field to 100% software engineer. That being said, my thought is that since I am basically going to be at the skill level of a new hire, I don't really have much room for negotiation... I know I get to keep the same pay/title grade, despite the lack of experience, so if they offer me at least what I already make or slightly more, I should consider that a win in itself, right? Getting into this field has been my goal recently and this role gets me right in there.
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Jul 9, 2021 16:42
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There's rarely any negotiating an internal transfer. If they think they can get away with no pay increase at all they will, else they'll add maybe 5-10%.
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Jul 9, 2021 17:29
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Yeah, that is basically what I was expecting. Figured I'd double check here first just to make sure though.
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Jul 9, 2021 17:39
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Eric the Mauve posted:There's rarely any negotiating an internal transfer. If they think they can get away with no pay increase at all they will, else they'll add maybe 5-10%. I successfully negotiated a lateral internal transfer about six months ago. They originally wanted me in the UK, shifted the role to Austin. Was in SF in prior role. Went from a net drop to a net increase in savings rate despite the salary adjustment.
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Jul 10, 2021 12:59
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Hi all, I’m in the process of interviewing with a large company for basically my dream job and it’s going very well. I expect the offer to be quite good and fair, what are some good sites for looking up pay ranges? I know of glassdoor and levels.fyi and those give good ranges (especially levels). It’s a company with a lot of salary entries in there so confidence is high. When negotiating is it good to break down the salary/RSUs and bonus all separately or do it as a total comp? Additionally I will need to relocate cities so what kind of stuff should I expect/ask for there? Do companies often help out with accommodations for a bit in short term rentals? Also what are some good resources for finding good spots to live in new cities? I can check listings with zillow but it would be nice to get a feel for what neighbourhoods would be good etc. That is probably beyond the purview of this thread though 
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Jul 10, 2021 18:27
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priznat posted:Hi all, I’m in the process of interviewing with a large company for basically my dream job and it’s going very well. I expect the offer to be quite good and fair, what are some good sites for looking up pay ranges? I know of glassdoor and levels.fyi and those give good ranges (especially levels). It’s a company with a lot of salary entries in there so confidence is high.
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Jul 10, 2021 22:13
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fourwood posted:For relo, definitely just ask them for details about their package for your position's level. It all depends on the company and also your job level, i.e. entry level gets a whole lot less than managers, etc. They might just cut you a check for $X,000, they might reimburse you up to a certain amount for travel+lodging+meals, might put you in a hotel for a few weeks while you find housing, might buy you out of your current mortgage, might pay your real estate fees for finding a new place, they might fly you out on an entirely separate trip in advance of your start to find housing... Of course, sometimes you get nothing, good day, sir, but that's some bullshit. This all may or may not be negotiable. Maybe closer to not negotiable if it's a big company. Yeah I'll have to see the offer. Thankfully it's not too far for me (about a 2.5 hour drive) and I am preeetty sure they'd help out with short term accommodation at least. Will have to wait and see!
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Jul 11, 2021 02:47
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ClickHole pays us some respect today https://clickhole.com/get-paid-what...-your-superior/ Lifestyle Get Paid What You’re Worth! Use This Expertly Crafted Fill-In-The-Blank Letter To Negotiate A Higher Salary With Your Superior July 15, 2021 quote:Do you love your job, but feel like it’s time for a raise? It’s normal to feel awkward about asking for more money, and we’re here to help. We consulted dozens of professional career coaches and business experts in order to craft the perfect negotiation letter that will win you a higher salary every time. Just fill in the blanks, and let this time-tested, incredibly effective template do the work for you. Let’s get this bread! SpelledBackwards fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Jul 16, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 03:42
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Ahhhhhhhhh. First job negotiation incoming in a very long time. Got a request for a call to discuss an offer in 5 hours. I'm interviewing with 3 companies for a specialized IT job in the pharma space (lims) and what is likely my best option in terms of resume growth is the one asking for the call. Company 1 (offer company) is a consulting company all remote with up to 50% travel though likely less than that in practice. I will learn a LOT in this position on the software I currently have experience with, with the possibility of crossover training in other software (which would be good). Downside is they might lowball me at 100k/110k. Company 2 is a therapeutics company in the bay that I did a panel interview for on last Wednesday based in the bay area (where we need to move to due to my partner's job within 6 months). Decent resume, would learn new software but not as much of a market leader. I haven't heard back from them since the interviews but it's only been two days. I'd expect an offer in the 115k to 130k range, but that's unclear. Location is south sf. Company 3 is a biotech startup in the bay (series c funding, lots of money) that I have a panel interview for on Thursday that I would expect to also be in the 115k to 130k range if they like me in the panel but again money hasn't been directly addressed. Good resume, not working with market leader software or even number 2 though. Downsides to 2 and 3 would be worse commute on a weekly basis (partial remote) somewhat worse resume growth. Upside would be not a consulting companies travel requirements, possibly better work culture. Though company 1 seemed fine when I interviewed with people. I think my ideal is company 1, with an offer of at least 115k. If they offer that to me today, is it reasonable to ask to get back to them with an answer by next monday to give the other 2 companies time to also get in an offer? Should I let company 3 know and ask if they can move up the panel interview? Any suggestions on phrases or ways to stand firm during the offer call this afternoon? Spikes32 fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Jul 19, 2021 |
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Jul 19, 2021 15:06
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What's your experience level, and what is standard market rate for someone in your field with that level of experience? If you're in the bay area all of those salaries sound low for a high performer, unless maybe you're just breaking into the field out of school. Don't settle for what they might offer you - you should be laser focused on what you could be making. If you have time to spare, they should be operating on your own personal timetable. If you get an offer by phone, the easiest way to handle it is to thank them for extending the offer and telling (not asking) them that you'll need a week or so to review the totality of the written offer including all benefits while you consider your other pending offers. If they try to pressure you into an immediate response and you think you might budge, here's your canned answer: "Thank you for reaching out and extending this opportunity. The role seems like a great fit and I am confident I will be able to excel in this position. I will evaluate the offer based on the totality of compensation including benefits. Please email me the written offer and all related materials. I appreciate your patience while I review this offer." Your goal is to remove yourself from any social pressure in this decision and it is really, really hard to do that on the phone your first few times doing this. Your best move is to wait until you're operating in written communication and send your counter - you're looking for $x + y in accordance with market rates (this total should be what you want, not what you'd be happy to accept). Don't ask the other companies to move stuff up unless you really want to accelerate this process. You're in a great position, no need to overplay your hand and rush things for the sake of making it easier for your adverse parties. Here's a grand secret - you can accept an offer and change your mind if something better comes in later.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:12
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Not a Children posted:What's your experience level, and what is standard market rate for someone in your field with that level of experience? If you're in the bay area all of those salaries sound low for a high performer, unless maybe you're just breaking into the field out of school. Don't settle for what they might offer you - you should be laser focused on what you could be making. I'm ten years into pharma gmp experience but only 1.5 into this specific lims experience so it's a bit wonky. I'm technically making 77k in San Diego, but after taking on call pay plus bonuses /stock options etc my total pay is about 100k. To be honest I'm not totally sure what my position would be offering in the bay area, not as high as a pure tech position for equivalent experience I know that. This company isn't bay area based since they're full remote, so I doubt the pay would be as high. I think it would be worth it though for the experience, if it's at least somewhat close. We would be living in San Jose, so not quite as expensive as the peninsula or Sf itself. Thank you for the template of how to approach the call this afternoon though, that was really helpful.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:31
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I don't know for any reasons to not tell a company you have a competing offer to get them to hurry up and there are signficant benefits the least of which is them hurrying it up.
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Jul 19, 2021 20:16
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Appreciate the responses, offer came in at 108, up to 112k to try and get me to say yes today, I told them I'd have a response by the end of the week. Company 2 moved up their interview to tomorrow, and I'm calling company 3 after work to let them know I'll need an offer soon. Let's see how high this can go!
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Jul 19, 2021 22:36
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Spikes32 posted:I'm ten years into pharma gmp experience but only 1.5 into this specific lims experience so it's a bit wonky. I'm technically making 77k in San Diego, but after taking on call pay plus bonuses /stock options etc my total pay is about 100k. Spikes32 posted:Appreciate the responses, offer came in at 108, up to 112k to try and get me to say yes today, I told them I'd have a response by the end of the week. Company 2 moved up their interview to tomorrow, and I'm calling company 3 after work to let them know I'll need an offer soon. Let's see how high this can go! Last offer I had in SF was 185 base plus a bunch of RSUs over typical vesting. I don't think I'd deal with SF for much less than that personally. I touch computers not drugs though; not sure what professions that actually require education earn in figgieland.
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Jul 20, 2021 08:59
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Spikes32 posted:I'm ten years into pharma gmp experience but only 1.5 into this specific lims experience so it's a bit wonky. I'm technically making 77k in San Diego, but after taking on call pay plus bonuses /stock options etc my total pay is about 100k. I do think the salaries you've listed are low the SF too. You sound like a pharma chemist based on experience. I have 8 years mixed of GMP and R&D pharma experience and recently started a job at a start up with $110k base, average in my area (Denver/Boulder) is 80k for pharma, 50k for weed. I also work remote... don't let that be a factor in the negotiation, ask for what you want to live in a great city. Before I was better at holding off recruiters salary questions, I once told a recruiter my salary requirement was $150k because of where I live. They told me I should move somewhere cheaper. Did not continue to talk to them after that.
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Jul 20, 2021 16:57
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