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Every single laptop I've ever owned has woke up unexpectedly in my backpack or carrying case at least once, regardless of hardware vendor or operating system. It happens, it shouldn't cause any harm beyond draining the battery. High heat of course might shorten the lifespan of some elements but if it shouldn't cause any failures unless some part was already on the edge.
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Jul 9, 2021 19:58
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And the user will yell about how his laptop is dead and needs a new one ASAP, but its just a drained battery.
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Jul 9, 2021 19:59
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doctorfrog posted:I'm setting up some laptops for work, haven't had one myself for years. Do Windows 10 laptops wake from sleep and do things when they're closed and unplugged? We're going to be storing them in laptop bags and sharing them among people of varied degrees of technical prowess, who may simply close them after use and walk away. I don't want any fires or destroyed boards or other bullshit. Yes, win10 will by default wake from sleep (to check for & install updates), and can do this on laptops even with the lid closed. No, this won't damage the PC, even if it's in a laptop bag. Modern PCs throttle themselves when they start to overheat. And it can't cause a fire unless your users are in the habit of carrying hazardous chemicals like white phosphorus in their bags. There is a group policy that prevents installing updates out of sleep -- "Enabling Windows Update Power Management to automatically wake up the system to install scheduled updates" in Windows Updates -- but whether this is a good idea is questionable for work machines. Turning it on means that updates are likely to be grinding on the machine while the user is trying to work on it. GreenNight posted:And the user will yell about how his laptop is dead and needs a new one ASAP, but its just a drained battery. are you getting paid to do user support? then do your job.
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Jul 9, 2021 20:27
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Everyone in IT where I work is responsible for user support.
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Jul 9, 2021 20:36
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A couple of years ago I stayed late at work and knew I wouldn't get to sleep when I got home, so I played half an hour or so of Civ 6 on my laptop to try and shut my brain off before I left. Closed the lid, stuffed it in my laptop bag (has a snug pouch built in), walked home, forgot that having a full screen 3d program running prevents it from hibernating. When I got back and took it out it was scary hot. Like literally couldn't hold it, surprised the plastic wasn't melting hot. I know they are supposed to have thermal cutouts but I'd love to know what they're set to on that particular model, because I imagine it's somewhere near "surface temperature of the sun".
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Jul 10, 2021 00:51
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It may have been that the thermal out didn't properly kick in for the GPU function?
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Jul 10, 2021 01:01
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I had my Nintendo Switch in a zipper pouch case thing, and while I was driving I must have hit the Pro controller home button somehow (it was in a bag in the back) and it turned the loving system on and cooked it so badly that the screen detached from the console.
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Jul 10, 2021 01:07
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Also I just watched a guy on YouTube install Windows 11 on a laptop from 2002 so there really is no need to worry about tpm or cpu or anything. I do hope it's not a bloated rear end OS though and actually runs faster than 10.
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Jul 10, 2021 01:12
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At this point indications are that it runs faster than windows 10 but part of that is because it takes advantage of a few virtualisation-based features in recent chipsets that are the reason for the minimum requirements, it uses those as part of its process isolation model, so if you install it on older systems it might be extremely slow because of the lack of those.
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Jul 10, 2021 01:18
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Ok thanks for answering my laptop questions all. I’ll just send out an email and dust my hands off until someone has a freakout.
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Jul 10, 2021 02:31
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Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:Also I just watched a guy on YouTube install Windows 11 on a laptop from 2002 so there really is no need to worry about tpm or cpu or anything. You can only do this by replacing a dll in the install media with one from windows 10. I doubt shipping Windows 11 media will allow this.
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Jul 10, 2021 05:31
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Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:Also I just watched a guy on YouTube install Windows 11 on a laptop from 2002 so there really is no need to worry about tpm or cpu or anything. The worry isn't that the perfectly adequate processor will fail, it's that Microsoft will add some kind of lockout that prevents the OS from working right. Like when windows 7 refused to update on certain processors.
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Jul 10, 2021 06:16
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MikeJF posted:It may have been that the thermal out didn't properly kick in for the GPU function? The thermal throttle temp for modern silicon is like 90-100C, which is easily hot enough to be very painful. Also that's hot enough to make some plastic & resins less solid, which is why chumbawumba's switch screen broke. (The crazier thing is that some laptops with badly-thought cooling end up giving people no-poo poo burns on their thighs because they let the case get too hot.) But 100C can't light anything on fire. Also I'm pretty sure the battery has independent overtemp shutdown to prevent fire, but I think that's even higher temperature than the silicon.
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Jul 10, 2021 07:21
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i think you're more concerned with the battery overheating, expanding and maybe catching on fire that way
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Jul 10, 2021 07:29
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MikeJF posted:At this point indications are that it runs faster than windows 10 but part of that is because it takes advantage of a few virtualisation-based features in recent chipsets that are the reason for the minimum requirements, it uses those as part of its process isolation model, so if you install it on older systems it might be extremely slow because of the lack of those. --edit: Also, it requires driver support. If you have older devices, it can't run anyway. The drivers for my G27 wheel for instance are incompatible and disable it.
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Jul 10, 2021 11:47
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Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:I had my Nintendo Switch in a zipper pouch case thing, and while I was driving I must have hit the Pro controller home button somehow (it was in a bag in the back) and it turned the loving system on and cooked it so badly that the screen detached from the console. Switch screens are glued in loving terribly. Mine came bulging out of the frame just from thermal cycling sitting in its dock. The fix was clamping the screen back down to where it was supposed to be and then play some games that really pushed it while docked and re-flow the lovely glue.
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Jul 10, 2021 12:47
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RGX posted:When I got back and took it out it was scary hot. Like literally couldn't hold it, surprised the plastic wasn't melting hot. I know they are supposed to have thermal cutouts but I'd love to know what they're set to on that particular model, because I imagine it's somewhere near "surface temperature of the sun". Most CPUs and GPUs tend to throttle somewhere in the 90C range, give or take 10C, so expect the things around them to be approaching that temperature range as well.
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Jul 10, 2021 15:57
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Geemer posted:Switch screens are glued in loving terribly. Mine came bulging out of the frame just from thermal cycling sitting in its dock. The fix was clamping the screen back down to where it was supposed to be and then play some games that really pushed it while docked and re-flow the lovely glue. I've temporarily reflowed cracked gpu solder on a laptop similarly, just let it sit in a bag for a few hours while on and set to not sleep and then apply pressure to the f key immediately and hold it until it cools off god that laptop was stupid
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Jul 10, 2021 23:38
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This was also a common "fix" for the xbox 360 RROD. Wrap that sucker in a towel and hope you can overheat it back into working order.
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Jul 10, 2021 23:48
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Ahh, yes. Who said it was a bad idea to put a Power5 chip, which was designed for rackmount servers, into a small chassis in someone's poorly ventilated entertainment cabinet?
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Jul 11, 2021 00:06
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wolrah posted:Every single laptop I've ever owned has woke up unexpectedly in my backpack or carrying case at least once, regardless of hardware vendor or operating system. It happens, it shouldn't cause any harm beyond draining the battery. High heat of course might shorten the lifespan of some elements but if it shouldn't cause any failures unless some part was already on the edge. I had a laptop (some lenovo yoga) update Windows in my bag, which was absolutely packed with stuff, in the Philippines heat while I was on my way to work. The outer finish on it got burnt, like actually turns and I got a bad surprise when I tried pulling it out of the bag. Amazed it didn't just shut down, but I guess windows update might have overruled some tempt limits? WiFi didn't work after that and it had a lot of other trouble it never had before. But I still got it as a backup, and it works with an USB external WiFi adapter
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Jul 11, 2021 01:57
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Woodenlung posted:I had a laptop (some lenovo yoga) update Windows in my bag, which was absolutely packed with stuff, in the Philippines heat while I was on my way to work. Years ago when I first installed Windows 10 on my desktop, the waking in the middle of the night drove me crazy, as the fan noise would wake me up. Ended up disabling wake timers in the BIOS which prevents Windows from being able to wake the system from sleep. Voila, no more stupid wakeups, and it can install updates in the background while I work and I can restart at my leisure. Probably worth doing that on laptops just to prevent that sort of nonsense.
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Jul 11, 2021 06:30
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Javid posted:I've temporarily reflowed cracked gpu solder on a laptop similarly, just let it sit in a bag for a few hours while on and set to not sleep No you did not. Doing it might have fixed it, but NOT by reflowing solder.
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Jul 11, 2021 07:01
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AlexDeGruven posted:Ahh, yes. It's not quite Power5, it's actually a very cut down design (in-order execution!!) and iirc it was the GPU that caused the issue anyway.
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Jul 11, 2021 11:08
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HalloKitty posted:It's not quite Power5, it's actually a very cut down design (in-order execution!!) and iirc it was the GPU that caused the issue anyway. I know we're getting way into the weeds here, but lol. In order was a P6 feature that bit a lot of people in the rear end. Sure, HUGE clock speeds, but some software loving died without out of order.
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Jul 11, 2021 14:16
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HalloKitty posted:It's not quite Power5, it's actually a very cut down design (in-order execution!!) and iirc it was the GPU that caused the issue anyway. Wasn't it the lead free solder that was the ultimate cause for both the 360's RRODs and the early PS3 models' YLODs? Maybe with some bad cooling design thrown in for good measure.
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Jul 11, 2021 15:52
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Ruflux posted:Wasn't it the lead free solder that was the ultimate cause for both the 360's RRODs and the early PS3 models' YLODs? Maybe with some bad cooling design thrown in for good measure. Killed most of Nvidia's 9000-series GPUs too
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Jul 11, 2021 16:28
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Ruflux posted:Wasn't it the lead free solder that was the ultimate cause for both the 360's RRODs and the early PS3 models' YLODs? Maybe with some bad cooling design thrown in for good measure. That's the most widely-promoted opinion, but MS has never said what their own engineers know about the problem so it's not at all confirmed. IMO there are three caveats to the lead-free solder explanation: 1. other electronics made with lead-free solder didn't all self-destruct 2. the towel trick can't possibly fix a cracked solder join, yet it seems to do something to at least temporarily fix a RROD 3. at the time a whole lot of cranky guys had the pre-existing opinion that lead-free solder was going to be a disaster -- "EU nanny state  " -- and were probably looking harder at the solder than anything elseLead-free solder, or a bad choice for which formula of lead-free solder to use, likely played a part. It's a fact that it has different properties and you have to change designs & manufacturing processes to account for that. And the fact that running a heat gun on the chips can fix the RROD & YLOD says that the proximate cause is the solder. But IMO the ultimate cause is a general system design failure. The solder cracks because it's exposed to too much heat, high thermal cycles, mechanical stress, or some combo of the above. Would leaded solder have stood up better? Probably, but who knows? Maybe it still would have had a 1/3rd failure rate rather than 2/3rds. The 360 Slim doesn't have a ludicrous failure rate and uses lead-free. Is it because they picked a different formula, because the chips got a process shrink and are less hot, or because they improved the cooler / mounting / physical design? Impossible to say until some MS head engineer retires and writes a book.
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Jul 11, 2021 16:56
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Its likely the internal silicon is becoming seperated from the package, this was common back in those days.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:00
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FuturePastNow posted:Killed most of Nvidia's 9000-series GPUs too 8000 as well, still have a 8800GT lying around that broke because of this. Mac version too, that made it extra sucky.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:33
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The ATI 9700 and 9800 pro had famously hosed up cooling and thermal solutions too with the weird shim they put in there
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Jul 11, 2021 20:19
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EpicCodeMonkey posted:Years ago when I first installed Windows 10 on my desktop, the waking in the middle of the night drove me crazy, as the fan noise would wake me up. Ended up disabling wake timers in the BIOS which prevents Windows from being able to wake the system from sleep. Good idea.
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Jul 12, 2021 01:08
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Klyith posted:That's the most widely-promoted opinion, but MS has never said what their own engineers know about the problem so it's not at all confirmed. IMO there are three caveats to the lead-free solder explanation: Somewhat anecdotal but I basically had a side career of fixing rrods on Xbox 360s, and I never had a single person come back to me out of over 100 units that I fixed: the issue was the x clamps that held down the heatsink from the other side of the motherboard. I would replace them with nylon washers and bolts and it permanently fixed the consoles every time (after reflowing the solder of course). I had two consoles that had dead DVD drives (never had a rrod) so I preemptively removed the xclamps and I could not get them to red ring no matter how hard I tried. The xclamps put a ridiculous amount of force on the other side of the motherboard and it would pull on it in the opposite direction, making it really really easy for the cpu or gpu to detach microscopically. You could literally see the motherboard flexing just by looking at it. I have absolutely no idea why they used them over regular bolts and washers. Chumbawumba4ever97 fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 04:51
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Windows 11 has such stupid bugs like moving to arrange pinned apps on the taskbar will start then, since you technically "clicked" them. This is gonna be fun.
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Jul 12, 2021 14:41
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Combat Pretzel posted:Windows 11 has such stupid bugs like moving to arrange pinned apps on the taskbar will start then, since you technically "clicked" them. This is gonna be fun. Not to be that guy, but it's months away from official release, it's going to be very unpolished at this rate. Different story if it's a release product, but sure finding bugs is part of the enjoyment. Unless you're drunk WattsvilleBlues in 2005 or 2006 installing Windows Vista Beta 2 over XP and waking up to find all my university work consigned to history.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:02
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Honestly the biggest thing keeping me from Windows 11 is the context menu thing. I probably do the "right click, extract 7z file to this folder" thing like ten times a day and that going away is gonna feel like a step back to Windows 3.1 or something.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:03
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Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:Honestly the biggest thing keeping me from Windows 11 is the context menu thing. I probably do the "right click, extract 7z file to this folder" thing like ten times a day and that going away is gonna feel like a step back to Windows 3.1 or something. Whaaat? It's leaving?
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Jul 12, 2021 20:04
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Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:Honestly the biggest thing keeping me from Windows 11 is the context menu thing. I probably do the "right click, extract 7z file to this folder" thing like ten times a day and that going away is gonna feel like a step back to Windows 3.1 or something.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:16
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Rinkles posted:Whaaat? It's leaving? Windows has been trying to be a phone OS for the last 6 years. It's been so successful in the past that MS really is going to just go ahead and double down on that.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:23
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Combat Pretzel posted:The current way is to click "Show More Options" in the new context menu, which will open the old one. 
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Jul 12, 2021 20:24
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